Jon Heyman reports that the A's have indeed come to an agreement with Petaluma's Jonny Gomes, on what is reportedly a major league deal.
The signing has been presumed for the past couple days, and as a result there has been some discussion already about whether or not you feel this is a good move. Perhaps a broader discussion is whether and when "strict platoons" are a good idea.
If Seth Smith and Jonny Gomes follow their career norms, a Smith/Gomes LF platoon could put up some awfully good numbers at the plate, with an expected OBP around .360 and an expected slugging percentage around .510. On the flip side, you use up 2 roster spots to field one position and do it with players who are, by nature, of limited utility. That is, were they great fielders or good hitters against "same-handed pitchers," they wouldn't be stuck in this kind of a platoon to begin with.
So in Smith and Gomes, you have two flawed players who might be able to combine for a robust .870 OPS. Are these kinds of platoons something the A's should be seeking as "clever," "undervalued," "affordable" ways to get good production from their lineup? Or is one man's trash just another man's trash in a different colored uniform?
0 recs | 108 comments
oh phew.
phew, i first read that as a major deal. I was fearing we signed him to three years or something like 1 year 7mil. Glad to reread it and find it is a major league deal.
habbey - January 20, 2012
i think platoons in general are worse than they appear
because normally people look at splits of an everyday player and say, if we play him every 3rd day he’ll put up these same numbers vs lefties, etc.
gomes at the least has very often been used sparingly before so his career numbers vs RHP should be relatively close to what he puts up as an Athletic (counting in the bad park)
Also, i tried to edit this into my first post, i couldn’t seem to figure out how to do that, never had to edit a post i guess…
habbey - January 20, 2012
you can't edit posts, unfortunately. so preview is your friend...
Billy Frijoles - January 20, 2012
You can, however, edit FanPosts
Not sure which he meant by “post”.
Nico - January 20, 2012
I think he was refering to his first comment.
Tutu-late - January 20, 2012
This.
(The first sentence.)
iglew - January 20, 2012
Assuming both of these guys can play both COF positions
and that we can use them at DH, I don’t really see this as wasting a roster spot. We have to have at least 4 OF and probably 5, so if Gomes is that 5th OF I don’t see any problem. We can still have Carter, Cowgill/BAllen, and a catcher and INF without wasting anything
A'sFanDFW - January 20, 2012
I guess he clicked his white cleated shoes together three times?
OaklandSi - January 20, 2012
If they platoon and have a combined slugging > .500
I’ll eat my shorts. Smith will have a lower slugging at the coliseum and Gomes hasn’t slugged over .500 since 2009 against lefties.
That being said they can probably provide an average to slightly above average LF.
They might even combine to provide what Willinghammer did last season (best case scenario that I think is reasonable)
.246/.332/.477 → .809 OPS
niallmack - January 20, 2012
My thoughts on this signing (and the Crisp signing, and Smith trade) are best summed up as...
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dwishinsky - January 20, 2012
makes a lot of sense, right?
Tutu-late - January 20, 2012
i think there's a couple of typos...everybody knows it's \ before r except after 4. duh.
stm72 - January 20, 2012
or except after a as in
ar4r/am and Mar/ghf439dc93,494m.3
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 20, 2012
a lesser known rule. good point
stm72 - January 20, 2012
This is a good time to go way off topic
My all-time favorite comedy bits is Brian Regan’s spelling bee story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJwOe_rTaN0&feature=fvsr
Highlight: What’s the i before e rule?
“I before e except after c and when sounding like a as in neighbor and weigh, and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May, and you’ll always be wrong no matter what you say!”
Ciderbeck - January 20, 2012
Really? I thought it's pretty clear.
Beane wants a complete (if lackluster) major league team, so that he’s not forced to promote youngsters who just aren’t ready, and so his payroll isn’t too low. If a youngster forces his way into the majors, which is a good problem to have, these major league fillers are cheap enough to trade away or just discard anyway.
GlassHeart - January 20, 2012
MANNY!!!
Colorado Fan - January 20, 2012
what about the potential signing of manny ramirez so he can serve his suspension?
HUNGRY HUNTER - January 21, 2012
Yeah, the outfield platoon sounds nice
but I’m wondering (considering his terrible defensive “skills”) how much time he will be getting at DH. If he’s the 5th OFer behind Cowgill, I would think he would be getting more starts at DH vs LHP. I know this means less at bats for Carter, but after considering Smith’s lack of ABs against LHP in his career (giving us a small sample size) maybe Smith won’t be platooning with Gomes as much as people are thinking. Of course if Carter is mashing, I doubt he will loose too many ABs to Gomes
Chief Bender - January 20, 2012
I guess
He could also spell Carter if he’s struggling. If there is nobody else to take his place then Melvin has no real options to throw in there. A little depth is good in case Carter pulls another 0 for 40 or whatever that was.
niallmack - January 20, 2012
A's "very interested" in Manny Ramirez
says Enrique Rojas.
BWH - January 20, 2012
What the hell for?
I see no use in having him on the roster.
Tutu-late - January 20, 2012
i saw no use in
Seth Smith, Coco, or Gomes, but here we are!!!
I think Beane is stockpiling every available FA that can be had for under $2M
ru155 - January 20, 2012
Everybody: Michael Taylor is not worth "seeing what we have"
we have 220 AAA games across his age 24 and 25 seasons of him hitting .270 with mediocre power… in the PCL. He’s been bad in the minors more than he’s been good in the minors, and more recently as well. There’s zero chance that he becomes anything more than a 3 WAR player at his peak. That’s his ceiling, which he’ll likely never hit. He has no star potential. His ceiling is like, .270/.350/.450. He isn’t Jason Heyward. It’s entirely reasonable to relegate him to 5th OF status. They aren’t “blocking him” by acquiring outfielders. If all goes well, Taylor can turn into a dime a dozen corner outfielder. There’s really nothing worth getting upset about here.
BWH - January 20, 2012
How are you connecting this to Manny?
Tutu-late - January 20, 2012
If you don't want Manny because you don't like Manny, fine.
But if you don’t want Manny (or Coco or Gomes or Smith, for that matter) because they’re “blocking the rebuild” or something, then that’s false. They are blocking nothing. The only high ceiling OFs in the A’s minor league system right now are Green and Choice, both of whom need more time in the minors.
BWH - January 20, 2012
Actually, I was refering to where Manny would fit within those we do have.
Coco, Smith, Gomes, Reddick. Cowgill. There is no need to include Manny( who must miss his first 50 games) into this mix. If he signs a MiLB contract, then I see him going to a team that can actually use him. That isn’t the A’s.
Tutu-late - January 20, 2012
We don't have to worry about that for 50 games.
Then, DH.
Billy Frijoles - January 20, 2012
Signing Manny...
would be the worst news Chris Carter’s heard all year!
wcmori - January 20, 2012
How would YOU man CF without Crisp?
Just curious here.
JustANotherJoe - January 20, 2012
piss.off.Selig.
If this isn’t a F you Selig move, I’m not sure what is. Either way as someone who goes to a lot of games I would love having ManRam on this team, it would make it that much more interesting at the ballpark.
Billy Frijoles - January 20, 2012
SIGN PETE ROSE!!!!
Nico - January 20, 2012
What's the over/under on that action?
mrod - January 20, 2012
so to me its pretty obvious
manny doesn’t play for 50 games, we have essentially 4OF (cowgill hasn’t come close to earning a spot) to play 3 spots and 1 (maybe 2 if you count kila) vulnerable players to DH (oh ya, i assumed allen is gone already). If everyone plays exceptionally and we can’t trade them then i have no idea what world we just fell into. If everyone or some play mediocre, than it shouldn’t be a problem if he steals ABs.
habbey - January 20, 2012
A few banner ideas...
“There’s No Place Like Gomes”
“Gomes Field Advantage”
“Gomes Run”
Maybe the A’s get lucky…..maybe not.
RudiFan - January 20, 2012
Gomes Disease . . . bleed green and gold!
Ray of Lite - January 20, 2012
according to Enrique Rojas of ESPN deportes –
– a reporter who I’ve followed for some years – The Orioles and Blue Jays sent people to watch Manny work out, and liked what they saw. However, the A’s, who have shown the most interest, did not send anyone to watch him.
OaklandSi - January 20, 2012
Any speculations as to how he fits into the rebuilding plans?
Tutu-late - January 20, 2012
Rojas didn't say anything
I sure wouldn’t either…
OaklandSi - January 20, 2012
So the A's are supposedly the the most interested of the three clubs
but have no one there to watch his workouts…..ok, I get it….
mrod - January 20, 2012
Because they already had him in for a super secret private workout.
wait, that came out wrong….
Billy Frijoles - January 20, 2012
This..
“Wait, that came out wrong!”
TWSS?
mrod - January 20, 2012
No Manny
please….
RudiFan - January 20, 2012
I want Manny
There, I said it.
Menechino_Incarnate - January 20, 2012
Me too.
capper3 - January 20, 2012
Hell yea...something fun to watch.
OaktownPower - January 20, 2012
I'd be fine with it
Gets some media attention and maybe some trade value. The downside is minimal.
DrDoom - January 20, 2012
how many below average fielders with declining power should be on the roster?
OaklandSi - January 20, 2012
7
DrDoom - January 20, 2012
No thanks
It could be just like the Dick Allen situation with the A’s. Allen carried the A’s and their great young pitching staff for a while, and then he just quit on the team.
Flamethrower - January 20, 2012
1977
Just think, Dick Allen played 53 games in 1977 for the A’s…..that kinda works out to about how many games Manny has to miss.
Yet another thing that makes it seem like 1977 A’s and 2012 A’s are on a similar wave
dougald1 - January 20, 2012
1977 A's
63-98. Works for me! Gives us a shot at the 2-4 draft pick.
Tutu-late - January 20, 2012
Manny would give up on the team
before his 50 games were up
wcmori - January 20, 2012
if he can still rake, yes please
my_cat_max - January 20, 2012
Yes, at least our garden will look good.
Nico - January 20, 2012
who rakes a garden?
It would be fun to have a guy who can hit, though I’m not convinced Manny can anymore. And I’m surprised the A’s are truly considering it. Weirdest offseason ever.
my_cat_max - January 20, 2012
last time I saw him play he was certainly not raking
except, maybe in his front yard.
OaklandSi - January 20, 2012
I like the idea of signing Manny
I mean it’s clear that there’s really no risk to it. Say what you will about Manny but he’s pretty much always hit.
Tyler Bleszinski - January 20, 2012
not at the end of 2010 or the beginning of 2011
I saw him play several times, and it seemed that he couldn’t get around on the fastball. That sure looked like an age-related decline. If he can speed up his bat at age 39 without taking anything that can get him banned again, great. But the odds are against it.
OaklandSi - January 21, 2012
He will be old and w/o drugs.
Billy Frijoles - January 21, 2012
Ramirez would help put fannies in the seats ...
… which the A’s desperately need.
But my concerns are:
50 game suspension. I want someone who can start right away.
Attitude problem – Ramirez was a cancer with the Dodgers, IIRC.
But …. it would be fun to see.
And I like the other acquisitions – Gomes, Smith, Colon, Crisp, plus the haul of prospects brought in by the Cahill, Gonzales, and Bailey trades.
I’m very intrigued for both 2015 (in stadium … crossing fingers … with killer team), and for 2012.
Beane is doing classic Beane stuff – trying to find production from undervalued assets, while at the same time having a longer term rebuild. If it works out, the 2012 A’s could be fun to watch. If not, at least we’ll have the youngsters to watch develop.
jeff-athletic - January 20, 2012
why would any team want to sign a 40 year old "outfielder"
who automatically will miss the 1st 50 games?
micdog2001 - January 20, 2012
isn't he out for 100 games?
thought that was the penalty for second time offenders?
Toast4 - January 20, 2012
I thought I read somewhere that it got reduce to 50 for some reason
I could be wrong.
micdog2001 - January 20, 2012
I think that there was a general consensus that it could be lowered to 50 games on appeal
Billy Frijoles - January 20, 2012
I once won a lawsuit against a grocery store when I slipped on a banana,
but the verdict was reversed on a peel.
Nico - January 20, 2012
Booooooooo!!!!
Toast4 - January 20, 2012
can't understand how that slipped by
OaklandSi - January 21, 2012
I laughed a bunch.
LoneStranger - January 21, 2012
Great work
Jack_S - January 21, 2012
no he wouldn't
He’s on the wrong side of 38 and on the wrong side of PED use…
elBONESAW - January 20, 2012
AHAHAHA
Halloffamer7 - January 27, 2012
Do not like this signing or the fact we're interested in Manny
Neither brings us a prospect in return, neither brings back a draft pick, both take up at bats from youunger guys who i’d prefer to see what they could do with more consistent playing time.
they also both create really crappy backlogs at the top of the minors when you take into account the minor league signings that they made (moss, fiorentino, and pridie) which in turn takes at bats away from green most likely, and maybe keeps jeremy barfield in AA, hopefully not, and takes away at bats from myrio richard if they decide to send him up to AA
guessatomo - January 20, 2012
What?
Grant Green will under absolutely no circumstances lose at bats and development time because of Jeff Fiorentino.
BWH - January 20, 2012
Sympathetic to the basic concern
about mediocrity blocking some chances for youngsters to show their stuff. But I’m not the least bit worried about any of those guys taking AAA at bats away from Green. He’ll be first priority for at bats on that team this year no doubt.
wcmori - January 20, 2012
Fair enough
guessatomo - January 20, 2012
Good for a laugh
I just looked at MLB Rumors’ list of top 50 free agents and their probable destinations, posted 10/31/11. They picked David Ortiz to re-sign with the Red Sox, which is I guess okay but of course he accepted arbitration so you have to remove him from the list. I didn’t spot, over the next 49 players, any that they got right, but I didn’t look really carefully.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/10/2012-top-50-free-agents-1.html
Also, every year John Sickels looks back on the top 50 prospects of five years’ earlier to see how he did, so last year he looked at the 2006 position prospects and then analyzed how they fared. It turns out there is really no correlation between any of the numbers. Some at the top did well; some in the middle did well; some at the bottom did well. Some at the top were busts; some in the middle were busts; some at the back were busts. And the same could be said for those who became average or below-average players. There’s no correlation whatsoever. Sickels wasn’t really predicting, but at the same time he was created a list in order.
richwol1 - January 20, 2012
thats a huge misconception
Well he wasn’t predicting, if he was he’d always have MLB ready prospects as his first 100. The lists between the people who “have the best talent/chance to be the best” and those are “most likely to succeed” are completely different.
habbey - January 20, 2012
true
He’s basically assessing value. I.e. if you traded the #1 guy on the list you would theoretically receive a higher return than the #10 guy.
I think the funny thing is that players universally considered the most talented/valuable fail so unpredictably.
Billy Frijoles - January 20, 2012 via mobile
But the important thing to note here ....
…is the lack of correlation between how things turned out, and where these players were rated on the list. It may be a list of “value” but that “value” has a huge caveat in that it’s a crapshoot how the players will eventually end up in the majors.
The reason I bring this up is because people get upset about the ratings, but these ratings, whether arbitrary or not, do not reflect what will actually happen.
richwol1 - January 21, 2012
Also...
Look at where Pedroia sits on that list and then tell me that the people above him “have the best talent/chance to be the best.” That makes no sense to me.
richwol1 - January 21, 2012
and....
What it really says is that those comps, i.e. that the higher on the list the more valuable the player in trade talks, is silly if there’s nothing to say that the #1 position player will be any bigger a star than the #50 position player.
richwol1 - January 21, 2012
agreed on most of your points. Basically there is still a huge amount of mystery in projecting success of prospects.
Health is often a factor, especially with pitchers.
Also maybe some more in-depth personality analysis would be helpful
Billy Frijoles - January 21, 2012
what people don't understand is
Serious prospects like taylor and green won’t in any case lose at bats to gomes or manny. The players that will are people that have to earn a major league starting job anyway, like cowgill. If he plays well enough to earn a job, he’ll get it.
The other problem thing people seem to believe is that everyone will stay healthy, which of course is bollocks.
habbey - January 20, 2012
I don't believe A's fans would assume that everyone will stay healthy
OaklandSi - January 20, 2012
The team doctor should try to alter his/her contract so it's commission-based.
Boonee - January 20, 2012 via mobile
"First two toes free!"
Nico - January 20, 2012
you mean they only get paid when the players are healthy?
OaklandSi - January 21, 2012
Injuries
never happen!
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 20, 2012
Check out the article on Fox Sports about the A's
Talks about the A’s giving up on the 2012 season & what a joke building for the future is when in the past 5 yrs., they have had 18 different pitchers make 20 starts for the A’s & only 3 are still with the team. No way they are gonna finish in anything less than dead last & I’m looking for a 100 loss season. The A’s can’t hit, have no pitchers & can’t field. Other than that they are great!
Bulgaricus - January 21, 2012
That could be very bad for attendance.
But I understand the direction, why its happening, and will chose to be upbeat as I follow this team.
JustANotherJoe - January 21, 2012
that guy is a dick
even if he is right
micdog2001 - January 21, 2012
He's right?
In what way? He’s basically arguing that the A’s shouldn’t have traded away their pitching talent in a rebuild effort and should have tried to hang with the Angels and Rangers by adding impact offensive players. He’s comparing the A’s to the Rays, yet conviniently leaves out the fact the the Rays success has stemmed from the fact that they were so shitty for so long that they accumulated multiple top draft picks, which they now (or for the last couple seasons) are starting to see the benefits from. You agree with all of this?
Personally I think it is one of the most moronic articles I have read in a long time, probably since the last time I read one of his pieces. The guy has had a bias against Beane and the A’s organization for awhile, and foxsports should be ashamed that they let this piece (of shit) get produced by Tracy. I’ve been trying for the past hour to create a foxsports account to get on and leave a long-winded comment under this article, backing my team and their managment (even if I dont agree with every single move they’ve made this offseason) but of course am having problems doing so.
Fact: A rebuild was neccessary regardless of the stadium situation.
Fact: The A’s were in no way, shape, or form going to produce a competitive team this season.
Fact: They Rays are in the position they are now, as a successful small-market club, largely because of a really long run of shitty teams producing multiple high draft picks.
Fact: Tracy Ringolsby is a cowboy hat wearing douche bag.
That is all. I feel like someone just wrote a piece ripping on my mom or something. That is how worked up I got from reading that nonsense, which isn’t good for my blood pressure so i’m going to post this and step away from my computer before it gets tossed in a violent manner.
JPShark - January 21, 2012
cowboy hat wearing douchebag
best fact you listed.
Billy Frijoles - January 21, 2012 via Android app
By the way
I apologize ahead of time if it seems like all my frustration was a direct reply to your comment…it wasn’t. Just had to vent somewhere and it ended up being in the reply to you! Lol
JPShark - January 21, 2012
no worries, I should have emphasized the IF
I feel the same way you do about the article and you did a very good job of explaining why he is wrong.
He is right about one thing, that the A’s “gave up” this season already. David Forst admitted it on MLB network, they saw all the moves the Rangers and Angels made and said that too many things had to go right for the A’s and bad for the other two teams for them to compete.
It’s not like they gave up ever winning again, they just did this season in hopes that future seasons would be better. All teams have to do that at some point. Even big market clubs, like the Mets have to blow it up some times (or at least they should). This was the only way to do it, trade their most valuable pieces, because they can’t get anything in return for players that aren’t very good. If they hung on to them the team would have been mediocre instead of bad and that wouldn’t put them in a good drafting place.
What exactly should they have done (talking to the naysayers) kept the 2011 team intact? It obviously wouldn’t have worked and they didn’t have the money to sign any good free agents (not that they would want to come to Oakland).
micdog2001 - January 21, 2012
Wow
I’m so regretting seeking out that article now. Who is this guy with the cowboy hat in his photo? Seriously?
And they make fun of bloggers and try to keep us out of the press box? Wow, just wow.
Thanks for not linking to it too. I would hate to have anyone else waste their time.
Tyler Bleszinski - January 21, 2012
Gomes, huh?
Seth Smith? Fatolo Colon?
Is anyone working on a time machine? I’d like to skip to 2015, please.
2012 is gonna be brutal. Even without the Mayan apocalypse.
Joe Como - January 21, 2012
screw that, i'm going back to 2000
give our big 3 dynasty another chance. i suppose i’d have to do something that subtly altered something. i think i’ll choose to give tim hudson an extra high five during spring training.
course by the fifth attempt of going back in time adding extra high fives he’s going to start getting spooked by the weird fan that insisted on 5 consecutive high fives.
habbey - January 21, 2012
Good point
I’d also go back to ’88 and do a Nancy Kerrigan on Kirk Gibson! :)
Joe Como - January 22, 2012
Well why don't you save yourself the trouble
And Hop on the Mariner bandwagon with Lars, talk about a deplorable team…you Seattle Douche-Bag!
oakballnack - January 21, 2012
Pffft
Nik, I could never root for a Seattle team. I just live here, dude! My heart will always be in the BA!
No state income tax, however, is very nice, very nice!
Joe Como - January 22, 2012
Washington's lack of income tax
is roughly offset by a high state sales tax and moderate business tax, making the overall tax burden about average.
(Still way better than California, though. Only a couple of states are as bad as CA.)
iglew - January 22, 2012
Joe - you band waggoning Sally
Just wait for the band known as the Gomes/Smith Experience to catch fire – they will out produce Punols! (laughing sadly….now just crying). Seriously…about that time machine…
oakballnack - January 22, 2012
Pujols.
Apparently my iPhone hasnt heard of the most famous player in baseball and thus auto corrected to “Punols”, who, I am at least certain Gomes and Smith will out produce.
oakballnack - January 22, 2012
I watched Gomes as a HS player
He was damn good in HS but I have not heard or seen much of him since then. His profile lists him as a TB draftee but in the pic he’s wearing a Reds batting helmet.
His career stats are not indicative of the prolific stats he produced in HS but then thats HS versus MLB. At 31 he is trying to revive a career that has not panned out the way he’d hoped but I like to see the A’s bring in the “local” or the Cali Northbay guys!!!
NorCalFaithful - January 22, 2012
Gomes
Had a couple of nice years for the Reds, but I’m sure that stadium didn’t hurt, nor did hitting behind the likes of Brandon Phillips and Joey Votto. I somehow can’t see him replicating anything near his production duri g his best stretches with the Reds while playing for Oakland, especially at the O.co
oakballnack - January 22, 2012
Let me get this straight . . .
Chapter 1: A’s trade for Seth Smith, and say his left-right splits are a small sample and he deserves more opportunities against LHPs.
Chapter 2: A’s sign a guy to platoon with Seth Smith so he doesn’t have to face LHPs.
Did I get that wrong?
If I didn’t get that wrong, WTF is going on here?
EddieVegas_NRAF - January 23, 2012
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