From @athletics:
Athletics Oakland Athletics
The #Athletics today acquired outfielder Seth Smith from the Colorado Rockies in exchange for pitchers Guillermo Moscoso and Josh Outman
I love this move.
Additions from Nico's "since deleted redundant" post:
One can view the trade from two angles: In a vacuum, is this a good deal for Oakland? In context of a team rebuilding for 2014-15, is this a good deal for Oakland?
Seth Smith's career stats can be found here. Coors Field disclaimers apply. Note that Smith has extreme L/R platoon splits as well as predictable Coors/Not Coors ones.
0 recs | 819 comments
I love it as well
Dub_TC - January 16, 2012
Hate this move
except for getting something for the smoke and mirrors of Moscoso. Now Parker or Peacock or maybe both make the rotation which is not a direction I wanted to see at all.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Well, IMO...
Smoke and mirrors is the right description for Moscoso, and Outman (who is not my favorite player) is just coming off a huge injury, and Seth Smith can hit? Never really got a good chance in Colorado. So for me, HUGE win.
baseballgirl - January 16, 2012
It also adds a roadblock of Allen in the OF as you won't platoon both of them
and doubtful you would platoon Reddick at all. So logjam persists at 1B and COF
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Barton sucks, Allen will be at 1B
MMunoz33 - January 16, 2012
Great analysis
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
don't be a dick
BWH - January 16, 2012
Not being one at all
It’s not like Allen’s earned the 1B spot based on anything he did last year, and if Barton is healthy chances are good he can return to something of his 2010 form.
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
2010 Barton
Probably the first comment I’ve read that makes me smile
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 16, 2012
Fun fact about 2010 Barton
Barton’s 2010 WAR: 5.0
Albert Pujols’ 2011 WAR: 5.1
Though I get the impression he’s something of a Byrnesian knucklehead (injured jumping into a pool’s shallow end headfirst in the ‘10? all star break; Beane or Forst comment last year re:him and ’can’t force players off their iPads and into the training staff’), the fact he was as valuable as Pujols was last year should mean 1B is his to lose for now
LunaCI - January 16, 2012
See? THAT is a measured response, disagreeing with a comment. With back-up.
baseballgirl - January 16, 2012
This (LunaCL's comment)
Is the best evidence that numbers lie. And no I don’t need to provide back up
Alvin Dark - January 16, 2012
I've known that numbers lied
ever since a “3” tried to pass himself off as an “8” by standing in front of a lamp-post so it would obscure his not completed left side.
Nico - January 16, 2012
Those numbers are a sore spot with me NICO
Years ago when I was in New Zealand I played the Lotto. You could buy combo tickets and so I picked 8 numbers so any combinations of four or more paid off multiple prizes.
I was sitting in the bar (drunk) when the numbers came out
Got the 1st number
Got the 2nd number
Got the 3rd number
Got the 4th number
Got the 5th number
Needed #8 to win 2.5 million and out comes #3. When drunk I thought it was 8 for a second. I did win 18 prizes. At the time 5 straight paid around 700 so I won that 3 times and had 15 winning combos of 4. $2468.00
I could have used the 2.5 million. It was all tax free.
Trainman - January 16, 2012
Best. Story. Ever.
Mostly because it is SO Trainman!
Nico - January 16, 2012
I've got to believe a team with 8 Albert Pujols would have a slight advantage on the Barton dream team.
padmadfan - January 16, 2012
And you just couldn't have said that?
Why can’t I say that I love the trade, simply because I can’t stand Josh Outman, and Seth Smith is my new boyfriend without getting a sarcastic response. Tell me why I’m wrong in baseball terms, but there’s no call for that kind of a response.
baseballgirl - January 16, 2012
You can't stand Outman?
I don’t love you anymore.
grover - January 16, 2012
Can't stand ;-)
Has nothing to do with baseball, though, so it’s a completely worthless analysis ;-)
baseballgirl - January 16, 2012
Wha...but stirrups!
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
He just gets guys out, man
darooster - January 16, 2012
how does your hubby feel about the new boyfriend?
stm72 - January 16, 2012
"Thinks he's cute" is what I'm hearing.
Nico - January 16, 2012
i wanna hear him say that.
stm72 - January 16, 2012
He loves Seth Smith!
baseballgirl - January 16, 2012
And you don't mind the competition?
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
a fair point
stm72 - January 16, 2012
I was thrilled with the Gio deal cause he was one of my least favorite players
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Bull crap, Barton sucks
94065 - January 16, 2012
How so?
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Okay.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
He doesn't hit enough HRs and 1B is a power position.
I don’t need your pie charts and histograms to show me he is good. I can get those in USA Today every morning.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
Let's look at hos 2009 WAR and 2011 WAR
MMunoz33 - January 17, 2012
his
MMunoz33 - January 17, 2012
WAR for hos would be interesting
Copenhagen - January 17, 2012
That's a big "if"
but I just think he’s doing the normail A’s regression like Bobby Crosby, Travis Buck etc…
I think chances are good he can’t return to his 2010 form.
MMunoz33 - January 17, 2012
A torn muscle is regression?
ozzman99 - January 17, 2012
Okay.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
cause Allen was so awesome there
I’ll take half of 2010 Barton over anything Allen produces.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
A quarter, even.
Allen was awful, aside from a hot week or two.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
An eighth!
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
5.1 vs 0.1 WAR...
51x!
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
yeah Allen has shown flashes...but obviously he needs to show something more to win the 1B job.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
I like you.
Kyli - January 16, 2012
Allen sucks, Baron will be at 1B
the_rozeboom - January 16, 2012
Whoever the hell "Baron" is... Oops.
Will we ever be able to edit comments?!?!?
the_rozeboom - January 16, 2012
The thing I hate about the AN application....
You can’t edit your own comments
-and you can’t remove comments that you realize you shouldn’t have made in the first place.richwol1 - January 16, 2012
Allen needs to earn a spot on the roster period.
The way he was with us was mostly horrible.
Pitchers had a field day pitching to him for the most part.
Trainman - January 16, 2012
SSS but Allen's K-rate following the trade was 34.8%
Which, so far, is exactly what his career rate has been.
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
It should have a 30-sec grace period
[Undo-post]
fruitattack - January 16, 2012
It's called "preview" ;-)
Would be nice, though, huh?
Nico - January 16, 2012
If you make it a habit to preview every comment,
that helps a lot.
Doesn’t catch everything though….
iglew - January 16, 2012
didn't the Warriors just sign him?
oakballnack - January 16, 2012
rec'd!
MMunoz33 - January 16, 2012
my thoughts as well.
winchester5 - January 16, 2012
Clears a 40-man roster spot
For newly signed Bartolo Colon. I think it means Milone and Peacock are likely to make the rotation, with Parker down at AAA to start the year.
Jason Hunt - January 16, 2012
Ross and Godfrey can keep Peacock in AAA where he belongs in April
grover - January 16, 2012
Good point
That makes me a bit happier.
sc00by - January 16, 2012
I agree.
We have plenty of meat to throw out there in a loser year.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
It makes it harder to justify that if you run out the bag of sh... that was post injury Ross instead of solid #4 starter Moscoso
Rio - January 16, 2012
+++!
That’s my only concern about the trade is keeping the youngsters off the clock to start the season.
Otherwise, it doesn’t bother me. Smith could be a nice addition to Reddick and one of Taylor, Cowgill, Carter etc….Plus we just picked up Ms. Piggy so it’s not that big of a blow, I suppose.
mrod - January 16, 2012
Whoops - we posted at the same time! I'll tuck my comments into this post and delete mine...
Nico - January 16, 2012
Does Smith start over Taylor?
I sure as hell hope not
kbtoyz - January 16, 2012
Considering he's seasoned I'd say yes
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 16, 2012
That's because he plays a lot of pepper
Nick - January 16, 2012
Great Baseball Joke!
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 17, 2012
the bench coach in major league?
jlanning17 - January 17, 2012
Iron Man's assistant.
ozzman99 - January 17, 2012
I bet he does
OaklandSi - January 16, 2012
I'd bet $2.415M on it...
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
AAA for Taylor most likely
Smith-Crisp-Reddick would be the likely starting OF, with Cowgill spelling either Smith or Reddick vs lefties (most likely Smith, who has strong platoon splits).
Unless they keep a 5th OF, Taylor is the odd man out.
train80 - January 16, 2012
Give Taylor a shot now
There is no point in keeping him in Sac another year. He needs to have the ability to prove whether or not he can cut it…ugh
kbtoyz - January 16, 2012
Flip Taylor for a reliever or something.
BWH - January 16, 2012
I don't think he can even get a us a reliever
he’s now between our 10-20th best prospect. I’d say just throw him out there for a couple month. Sink or swim.
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 16, 2012
agree
buddahead9 - January 16, 2012
Of course, he's the best hitting OF we have.
Unless Taylor grabs the bull by the horns he will not get a starting job.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
I don't like this move.....
I want to see what Taylor, Allen, Carter, etc can do.
Hopefully this means we see a secondary move involving signing oswald or another FA pitcher who could be flipped at the trading deadline.
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 16, 2012
I agree with this
I was kind of looking forward to it.
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
Hated It
biscuit530 - January 16, 2012
Do we flip him to the Giants for T-rights?
Their offseason seemed to be all for collecting so-so outfielders.
buddahead9 - January 16, 2012
we have sooooo many fringey outfielders.
BWH - January 16, 2012
maybe we could trade for that Jai Miller guy
oakballnack - January 16, 2012
Not so much related to the A's side of things,
but if there were one place I wouldn’t want Moscoso to pitch for me it would be Coors FIeld.
Nico - January 16, 2012
smoke and mirrors will not perform well there
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
HR/FB regression is going to punch him in the jaw.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Extreme fly ball pitcher at Coors?
Terrible idea.
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
Outman's a flyball guy too.
Heh.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
this somehow makes less sense for Colorado than it does for Oakland.
BWH - January 16, 2012
aren't this just kind of dumping Smith because they don't have a spot for him?
maybe they were going for the “best of the bunch available” instead of looking for groundball guy?
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
if you're running a team in Denver
you can do better than a couple of flyball pitchers with low K-rates from a pitchers’ park.
BWH - January 16, 2012
true
it is kind of a head scratcher for both teams. My CO didn’t do their homework?
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
"maybe" CO
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
I kind of want to start a betting pool on HRs allowed by him next season.
Kyli - January 16, 2012
Yeah, Moose Costcos "smoke and mirrors" is just gonna turn into "smoked"...
the_rozeboom - January 16, 2012
"Moscas, moscas...."
“Adios mio…!”
mrod - January 16, 2012
+1,000,000
MMunoz33 - January 17, 2012
Interesting that we're okay with throwing our young pitchers out there and start their service clocks,
but not our less-sure, older outfielders.
thewhizkid - January 16, 2012
Thing is
Service clocks won’t matter as much if the A’s get the new stadium. They’ll actually be able to afford to keep some of the major talent. If they don’t get the new stadium, we’ll best of luck doing this again in three years.
I’m not sure I love getting an outfielder from Colorado. Last time we did that, didn’t go so well.
Tyler Bleszinski - January 16, 2012
I hear this one smiles!
Nico - January 16, 2012
I remember him smiling once...
I think it was after Swingles made a nice catch.
the_rozeboom - January 16, 2012
I'm more concerned that he can't his LH pitchers
and hit only 15 HRs despite playing half his games in a launching pad.
I couldn’t care less if he smiles.
OaklandSi - January 16, 2012
Totally Befuddled
I can’t figure out what Beane is up to. This isn’t Moneyball and it doesn’t feel like rebuilding. What is Billy up to (must be something….I hope).
Steve in Napa - January 16, 2012
This is pretty simple, I think
Players need to earn their way into the major leagues. Nothing Taylor or Allen or Carter has done has indicated they deserve to start the season at the major league level. This is probably true for Cardenas and Mitchell as well. Any of these guys can work their way into the majors and get there when there’s an injury. Cowgill isn’t even a sure bet to start the season in the majors, though a good spring will probably put him there.
Meanwhile, Outman’s a reclamation job so it’a all a question of giving up Moscoso, who, as people here have noted, could be a smoke-and-mirrors pitcher. I
I’m not a fan of the move, but there are quite a few FA pitchers out there right now who could easily fit into the scotch tape and rubber band rotation that will be the A’s lot for 2012. Does anyone really think Moscoso would be better than someone like Millwood?
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
The other thing
is that by bringing in guys like Colon and Smith, you do give yourself some trading power for some more prospects at midseason for desperate playoff contenders too. Especially if some of the young talent proves to be ready now.
Tyler Bleszinski - January 16, 2012
But what value will they bring back?
Organizational filler or mediocre bullpen arm at best.
Rio - January 16, 2012
That doesn't matter
They’re mainly place-holders, and if some of the minor leaguers get their act together, then they can be moved so that they’re not clogging the roster. This is more of a running in place move, which it could only be when you’re dealing with players like Smith and Moscoso.
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
In other words...
guys who are a lot like Moscoso and Outman.
Nick - January 16, 2012
Both are fully capable to serve as rotation backend.
If the return can match that? I am not sure.
Rio - January 17, 2012
But why adding payroll if we rebuild?
Colon, Smith and the next FA starter.
And now I can see another .500 season and another mid-10s pick. Perfect. Just when you think Beane is on the right track for a rebuild he tells you the opposite.
Rio - January 16, 2012
salary floor
BWH - January 16, 2012
Payroll addition is most likely to keep the MLBPA at bay
I still would have rather them dump 10 mil into Oswalt then the events of the past two days
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
I see that as a reason, but that would be really bullshit.
Marlins had years of payrolls below what we would have had after Crisp signing.
Sucks when MLB jumps on us after letting other teams earn money and get top picks for many years.
Rio - January 16, 2012
the Marlins were penalized by MLB for those payrolls
BWH - January 16, 2012
Thus the Johnson extension when I happened
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
It's part of a new CBA
On the one hand, the A’s have to deal with a salary floor. On the other, they get to deal with new limits on draftee bonuses.
Nick - January 16, 2012
its not like Beane is going to give just up,
even though we are in a rebuild mode. I would say that he doesn’t like loosing, even after shipping off our top rotation pitchers for prospects. This is not to say that Seth Smith is the answer to our prayers…
Chief Bender - January 16, 2012
What?
Are we flipping Seth Smith for something?
Smith-Coco-Reddick in the OF, Cowgill and Taylor are extras, as is Allen.
McCarthy
Colon
Milone
Braden (?)
Ross (?)
is the rotation?
BWH - January 16, 2012
peacock, parker.
thewhizkid - January 16, 2012
I think it shows that Beane is prepared to start at least one of Peacock, Parker or even Gray
DeJay - January 16, 2012
Dammit.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Good God no.
Not till after the ASB, please.
BWH - January 16, 2012
This is where most of my rage emanates
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Likewise
This doesn’t seem to mesh with the whole “maximize team talent for 2015” plan.
UrgentMirth - January 16, 2012
Forst
If you watch the video of David Forst talking about the trades, he pretty much puts Parker in the rotation out of Spring Training.
Colorado Fan - January 16, 2012
So much for competition
sf drift king - January 16, 2012
Well...that's weird.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
my thoughts.
thewhizkid - January 16, 2012
same
DDroney - January 17, 2012
I'm gonna miss those stirrups...
kbtoyz - January 16, 2012
So we got a 29 year old OF
with no chance of upside, who’s numbers are inflated in Colorado creating a log jam where our young guys who actually have upside get blocked.
We get rid of two young pitchers who give us rotation depth and one has some post surgery upside, and we start the service time of our upside young pitchers.
Overall I’d say I’m curious.
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 16, 2012
We have 6 outfielders, only one of which is proven.
And 3 starting pitchers. That is the opposite of what it should be like. There will be more moves before spring training starts.
BWH - January 16, 2012
You're right there will be more moves
Damn it, now I have check this site every couple hours to see what comes next!
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 16, 2012
This is how I feel,
except surely Seth Smith has some upside. Nice numbers vs. RHP in Colorado.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Oh, except I think Moscoso and Outman have very little upside.
So from a value standpoint, actually pretty good.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Moscoso no
But Outman is still a lefty who can hit 95 with movement. (This could have changed post surgery) I’d say he actually has something us upside left. No much but some.
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 16, 2012
this is how i feel
he was more 92-93 post surgery but he has decent secondary stuff and can be a 3/4 starter if his command rebounds.
NRC - January 16, 2012
I still liked Outman
Moscoso, I would bet that he falls off the face of the earth. But you never know what happens after a surgery like Outman had. He also has a hugely funky motion so who knows if he could remain healthy.
Tyler Bleszinski - January 16, 2012
didn't outman's dad teach him and his brother some extreme over the top delivery?
iirc, it was effective (the outmans were effective using it) and the motion greatly reduced the stress on the shoulder joint, but ballfolk just wouldn’t respect it because it looked weird.
jlanning17 - January 17, 2012
I once heard someone knowledgeable suggest
that the problem is it’s too hard to hide your pitches because the hand holding the ball isn’t behind the glove nor behind your back.
Too bad. I would have loved to see him try out the crazy delivery in the big leagues.
iglew - January 17, 2012
that would make sense
here we go
if that doesn’t work, it’s www.outmanmethodology.com and go to link H on the left side for videos. the pitcher’s grip is pretty much presented on a silver platter for the batter to see.
jlanning17 - January 19, 2012
whatever the delivery,
i liked outman. he seemed pretty locked in a couple years ago before he got hurt. i’m curious to see how he looks this year after a full rehab from surgery. and having a successful pitcher with a name like that would be terrific.
jlanning17 - January 19, 2012
Yes, it looked a bit like Mike Marshall's motion
emphasizing forward motion toward the plate over torquing the body, and putting the throwing arm in a ready position early on to reduce stress on the shoulder and elbow.
Nick - January 18, 2012
I agree with this
Strictly in terms of value, this is a huge win. Moscoso is not actually good at all. Outman is an extreme longshot to be any good. In return, they get a 2-3 win outfielder who has always shown a lot of promise to be more than that. He definitely has some upside left despite his age.
In context, though, I don’t really understand the move. All of a sudden that outfield is crowded.
laserbeams - January 16, 2012
Especially when you consider that not too long ago,
Sweeney was a lock for the starting job in RF….and CF…..and LF.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Yeah, if you look at him as a "strict platoon player,"
a la “John Lowenstein,” he becomes a pretty darn good hitter.
Nico - January 16, 2012
sounds like another FA starter is coming to Oakland
and I’m pretty sure it isn’t Oswalt. There is no way they would trade Gio and Cahil, then turn around and throw these young arms into the rotation this quickly. its insane
Chief Bender - January 16, 2012
You left out
that Colorado had no leverage since they do their best to not play Seth Smith
Ice Watter In His Veins! - January 16, 2012
To continue our text conversation...He had 533 plate appearances last year so they did use him.
But yeah since they got Cuddyer now they basically shoved Smith into a 4th OF spot. I wonder if we couldn’t have gotten him for Moscoso straight up, or Moscoso + bullpen help.
Overall I don’t think the trade was great but I am thankful to have one player (besides Weeks) who can actually hit on this team.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
well... at least he could hit
not that he plays for the a’s his BA will drop 30-40 pts
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
Not that I think Moscoso or Outman had long futures here, but on the surface I don't like this move
Especially if one of the ideas of signing Colon was to help save on service time for one or two of the people they just picked up.
Maybe there will be more to the equation by the time the season starts, but did we really need another OF right now who’s mostly a platoon player?
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
Exactly how I feel.
Not bad maybe even good from a value standpoint, but totally the wrong direction for a rebuild towards 2014/2015. We now need pitchers or we have to pull a Anderson/Cahill move with Peacock/Parker/Gray and have now what 20 outfielders for Sacramento?
What direction will that go?
Rio - January 16, 2012
I sense the real purpose of signing Colon...
…was to spend money and keep the union off our back.
UncleLeo - January 16, 2012
I fully expect Vlad or Matsui to be signed in the next month
to further muddy the waters
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Nonononononononono.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Hatteburg too!
MMunoz33 - January 16, 2012
Wooo let's keep blocking the young bats
And start the clocks of the young pitchers. Brilliant.
hero66 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
We're all going to die
bbower - January 16, 2012
.
doctorK - January 16, 2012
this
King Richard - January 16, 2012
Maybe not that strong
I mean we are just talking about Outman and Moscoso
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 16, 2012
The problem isn't so much losing Outman and Moscoso
It’s more a problem of preventing the prospects from getting playing time in the OF. Having just one of either Crisp or Smith makes sense as it allows for Reddick/Cowgill/Allen/Carter to fill the other OF spots while providing some stability in the OF. However, with both Smith and Crisp in the OF that leaves less room for the prospects to get a chance to shine. I would think that if you are rebuilding, you give the kids a chance to play.
sc00by - January 16, 2012
Not many of the outfield prospects have done enough to warrant a job out of spring training.
My quarrel with this move is it may have been a better idea to sign a Damon or Matsui rather than give up pitchers for Smith.
BWH - January 16, 2012
i'd rather let the young outfielders play now (even if they don't deserve it) than use up service time like we did with anderson/cahill
stm72 - January 16, 2012
This is a really good point
And one I’ve been missing and maybe a few others too. Maybe those guys need to be made to earn it. ie hit with a .950 OPS out of spring training or AAA. (High yes but Allen, Carter, and Taylor aren’t pups)
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 17, 2012
none of the prospects are being blocked,
you have to play your way on to a big league club. It’s a long season and everyone will get an opportunity to play. (we seem to suffer more injuries than most clubs) How much you play depends on how well you play, as always. And if Smith is blocking your way from being a big leaguer, maybe you are not a big leaguer. Competition for jobs is a good thing, may the 3 best outfielders win.
elephantman - January 16, 2012
"How much you play depends on how well you play, as always"
Not always. Often it is “How much you are paid defines how much you will play”
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
yeah but $2.4M hopefully is not rich enough to define how much playing time Smith will get.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
I also don't see the A's saying, hey you are our bench guy now.
Do you really see that?
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
Probably not, because I don't see Taylor or Cowgill being as good as Smith, let alone better.
However, I didn’t really see them doing that to Ellis either, and it happened. They traded him after demotion, and never looked back with Weeks at 2B. They also did it to Kouz, even though he was getting paid a lot (even worse for him, being sent to AAA), and Sizemore took full advantage of the opportunity.
Typically injuries and/or extended suckitude by starting players tend to pave the way for a young player to start.
I mean, with Carter, they gave him a serious chance to play, he went 0-32 to start. The point is that the people they had in place were injured and/or sucked, opening the window for him. Same with Allen, Barton was injured/sucked (take your pick on that one). But Allen didn’t perform very well so we still have 1B as a big question.
Weeks came in because of an “injury” to Ellis but that injury wasn’t even serious, really he forced the issue and played well enough to keep his spot. I could definitely see that happening again. If Smith was hitting .240 and Taylor was OPSing .800 in limited time, Taylor will eat into his playing time.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
Thats fair, but also there are other reasons to trade Ellis
He was relatively high paid and it was a salary dump opportunity. Unlikely to continue starting and was within months of no longer being a part of the team. Weeks, is a former first round pick who moved the clock up. Smith doesnt fit in any sort of reasonable timeline.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
Let's worry about playing time when these guys start to perform
A competition for playing time is better than just handing a job to a rookie without any reason other than giving him some time. Allen has failed once; Carter has failed twice; Taylor didn’t look MLB ready in 2011. I can understand the fear that a second-rate player will take time away from a rookie, but realistically, you want the rookie to work for it.
There are injuries throughout the year, and all of these guys will get their chance if they prove they can play in Sacramento.
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
I disagree
But… you can read my other posts on here which basically argue this very same point.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
Wow, xbhaskarx flashback
Nick - January 16, 2012
Naah,
If it were xbox, there would be no subject line to click on.
iglew - January 16, 2012
couldn't they just have
signed Damon and um…. idunno kept their pitching depth
nationalB - January 16, 2012
or Matsui.
Smith is under control through 2015 though.
BWH - January 16, 2012
$$$
maybe?
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
Yep
$$$ is right
Flamethrower - January 16, 2012
Any chance that Beane is getting Smith only to flip him to another team soon?
In a vacuum, this is a good move. A’s got good value for 2 meh pitchers. But this move doesn’t really fit into the rebuilding plan and other teams seemed to be interested in Smith.
sc00by - January 16, 2012
that's what I'm thinking.
We have 6 outfielders.
BWH - January 16, 2012
So very few fly balls are going to fall in!
Nico - January 16, 2012
Now if they were allowed 6 strikes
We might actually hit this year too.
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 16, 2012
Ahhh, I remember the days when we only had one...
the_rozeboom - January 16, 2012
Sweeney!
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Not sure about that
Smith’s number will be damaged in Oakland. Maybe they’re betting on selling moscoso at his peak and they just don’t trust Outman’s elbow.
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 16, 2012
That's why "flipping him soon" would be before spring training.
Perhaps Beane thinks he can get a better deal for Smith than the Rockies would have because the two teams have different needs.
sc00by - January 16, 2012
I kind of doubt it, though,
because Smith was DFA. He had little value. If anything, it would mean we were flipping another OFer who has more “value”.
Nico - January 16, 2012
yep
NRC - January 16, 2012
Disagree
Smith is a line drive / gap hitter; he should do quite well hitting in the cavernous coliseum.
sf drift king - January 16, 2012
No one does better in Oakland than in Colorado
Even Line drive hitter. Cold wet air and large amounts of foul territory even screw them.
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 17, 2012
This
Rio - January 16, 2012
This move is a surprise to me!
I actually liked what we got from Moscoso, and I am a little surprised we seem to be ditching even more pitchers for B grade outfielders. Huh. Maybe the belief is that the Coliseum is so good that anybody can look good here. No clue. But this is a total opposite of what we’ve come to expect from cultivating a thick book full of starting pitchers.
louismg - January 16, 2012
I like this...
Since we just signed Colon. Maybe he can eat enough innings for three pitchers?
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Funny... Rec'd!
the_rozeboom - January 16, 2012
Ha ha
“Innings Eater” very clever
Flamethrower - January 16, 2012
Or he might eat three pitchers
So there’s risk involved.
Nico - January 16, 2012
He might have just needed two lockers
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
( one for his 'fridge)
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Let's hope
He doesn’t get in trouble with the law.
muffinpryde - January 16, 2012
The guy's 39 and threatens to eat everything
Didn’t we just sign this guy to pitch for us?
Nico - January 16, 2012
Yeah...I hate this move.
Just don’t see a reason to block the young guys.
Rebuilding Season - January 16, 2012
The A's had 5 OF'ers play over 100 games, not including Matsui. There will be plenty of AB's for all the Of'ers. Crisp
most definitely won’t make it through the year, and Smith can also possibly be traded at the deadline.
theblackpearl - January 16, 2012
Amen.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
bah
is there going to be anybody left we recognize? (who is also healthy that is.)
MobiusKlein - January 16, 2012
Look how quickly we "recognized" Moscoso...
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
I'm seriously gonna miss that kid
Humble, came up, played hard, was fun to watch.
Not the best pitcher but the effort and enthusiasm was there, as well as the performance.
As many people have written here, that performance is likely unrepeatable given his xFIP. I guess Beane knows that too. But he still would have been our 3rd or 4th best pitcher.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
adding the cutter mid way through season changed his results pretty dramatically didn't it? i think danmerqury did a post on it.
stm72 - January 16, 2012
You should have seen my face when the new 2012 THT Annual cited that AN post.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
well done sir
stm72 - January 16, 2012
He has a chance of outperforming all of our pitchers except maybe McCarthy
he could also crash and burn. But he has that work ethic, obviously enough to learn a new pitch and throw it at the big league level, so I doubt he will fail that dramatically. We gave up a good piece that costs us the league minimum, for a decent OF that can’t hit lefties. Plus we throw in a borderline #5 starter. I don’t really get the value proposition.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
Beane's new message: "One trade a day until we get a decision on the ballpark."
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
Flood MLB's offices with paperwork!
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
That would be hilarious
“So help me God, I will trade every man on the roster just to piss you off, Bud! I swear! Don’t test me! Decision now or the mediocre pitcher gets it!” (holds cell phone to Fuentes’ head)
darooster - January 16, 2012
Like anyone would believe that someone would trade for Fuentes.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Would you have believed three days ago the A's would sign Colon?
darooster - January 16, 2012
more than somebody would trade for fuentes
stm72 - January 16, 2012
This.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
PLEASE TRADE FUENTES!!!!!!!
gigglingone - January 16, 2012
Taking the Shawshank Redemption approach?
Rebuilding Season - January 16, 2012
heh
67MARQUEZ - January 16, 2012
Suddenly, Brad Pitt's "I can do this all day" moment is in my head.
Kyli - January 16, 2012
LOL good call.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
first we sign a guy who is going to run out of gas before the all star break
and now we trade for someone who is an avg hitter at best @ coors field
Wreckonized - January 16, 2012
Career 113 wRC+
He’s a well above average hitter even adjusting for Coors.
laserbeams - January 16, 2012
Wrong
Do you even look at stats? Smith hit .282 away from Coors last year.
Dohman - January 16, 2012
Irony: Saying "Do you even look at stats?"
and then citing the stat most stat-oriented people find least useful.
Nico - January 16, 2012
BASEBALL!!!
Thanks, bbg!
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Pfffft, baseball
I used to talk about baseball instead of meta before it was cool
-Hipster ANer
darooster - January 16, 2012
I don't get the excitement over Smith. He's a 29 y.o. 2 WAR OF.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
and a half of an OF to boot since you really don't want him starting against LHP
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
gp
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
His platoon issues I really see as a positive
Gives Cowgill or Taylor as 4th OF a chance for regular AB instead of rotting on the bench like Sweeney last year.
Rio - January 16, 2012
How, by just facing lefties?
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
Playing every third game is better for them then sitting for a week or two and only getting a 9th inning sub every now and then
Rio - January 16, 2012
Like Copenhagen said, I'd rather see him playing every day instead of the sit-sit-play-sit-sit-play pattern
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
But one has to be the 4th OF
Rio - January 16, 2012
And at this point I'd rather that not be Taylor
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
Taylor is busy making copies and learning how to fax.
padmadfan - January 16, 2012
If he's at all like me, that should only take 3 months
Nico - January 16, 2012
I just have the kiddies do it for me.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Which button do we push to make the copies of our butt again?
darooster - January 17, 2012
I think you'd have to ask Heather Locklear
Tutu-late - January 17, 2012
Cowgill serves that better for giving Coco a break as well or when he breaks
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
But how often does Crisp need a say off?
And Smith is so bad against lefties that not platooning him would be dumb as hell. Best way to not get any trade proposals for him.
Rio - January 16, 2012
I'd say once a week and then of course when he needs more
cause he tweaked his hammy or something.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
But then you need another 4th OF. Same problem
Rio - January 16, 2012
Cardenas makes the roster in my world
and fills that spot
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Good way to see if he can hit MLB.
I really don’t like having a guy with upside as 4th OF without a real way to get even semi-regular playing time
Rio - January 16, 2012
I'd rather not have Taylor go through the Carter situation of playing once every 3 games
then sitting again. He needs constant ABs much like Carter.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
I was wondering..
is the “.” part of the y.o., or part of his WAR?:)
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
If it was part of his WAR, I'd have to have a talk with Billy.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
GP
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Bad trade
Not so much that the loss of Moscoso and Outman are huge (although I do like Outman very much) but the addition of Smith is redundant with the acquisitions of Cowgill and Reddick, two players that Beane is said to have specifically targeted when he traded Cahill and Bailey. Smith costs more than either of those two and will cut into their playing time. That means Beane essentially wasted whatever trade capital he used to acquire one of these 3 outfielders; capital that could have been directed to acquire younger prospects that would hopefully be ready to play when the A’s get a new stadium and are “ready” to field a contender.
grover - January 16, 2012
I agree with grover. I'm not a fan of this trade.
OaklandSi - January 16, 2012
Except that...
… the same smoke and mirrors that people see here in regard to Moscoso are evident to anyone else in baseball as well. Which means these aren’t really great trade chips. This was a salary dump by Colorado.
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
question though
why not just not offer him arbitration? Would they lose a draft pick? I wouldn’t think Smith was that type of player (B?)
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
now that I think about it
why bother not offering arby when you can get two pitchers for him?
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
What is Smith projected to get in arb?
He made 429k last year which is about half of the total of the pitchers going back. I see this more of they have Spillborgs and others that can fill his void.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
rotoworld said the Rockies signed Smith for $2+ million before the trade didn't they?
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
I was going off Cot's I dunno.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
It was $2.4 million.
Rated-R Superstar - January 16, 2012
oh that happened yesterday it seems, just hasn't been updated on Cot's
I still stand behind my point of them having pieces that fill in for them
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
they obviously didn't like him much
considering what they got for him
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
Yep.
$2.415MM. Then he has two more years of team control after 2012.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
we still better have enough money for Soler
BWH - January 16, 2012
God, I hope so.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
I wish I had more hope that Soler was going to happen...
UrgentMirth - January 16, 2012
mlbtraderumors has him around 2.4 million
Rio - January 16, 2012
Plus,
Rockies just signed Michael Cuddyer.
sf drift king - January 16, 2012
had forgot about that
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
had forgot about that
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Not surprising, since you forgot you had already said that. ;-)
Nico - January 16, 2012
heh
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
And how does Colorado's salary dump help Oakland?
Smith is a COF who can’t hit lefties. That has limited value to the 2012 team and almost no value (unless he gets traded) to the 2015 and later teams.
grover - January 16, 2012
Maybe the A's see something they think they can fix?
If they do so and he plays well this year, he would definitely be worth more than Moscoso and Outman next offseason.
On the other hand, I don’t see why the A’s would think themselves capable of fixing any person who uses a baseball bat with any regularity.
UrgentMirth - January 16, 2012
Given the A's track record with position players...
Bad. Idea.
grover - January 16, 2012
+1
what position player with some MLB experience has gotten better after coming to the A’s (in the Beane era). I’m sure there is somebody but it sure seems like the opposite. (maybe Durazo? Frank Thomas returned to form but that doesn’t count.)
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
How much MLB experience counts as "some"?
Sizemore and Rosales both got better after coming to the A’s.
Best answer to your question is John Mabry. Very good in his partial year with the A’s. Eight years of mediocrity before that. Or to put it another way:
- WAR in his five months with the A’s = 1.7
- Total WAR over his 14-year career = 2.1
iglew - January 16, 2012
I'm not sure, how about a player who had not played more than 2 complete MLB seasons?
I also was thinking someone who stuck with the A’s and was productive for at least a couple seasons.
Jack Cust (depsite some nay-sayers) would qualify.
John Jaha had one good season but that was more of a “comeback”.
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
Mabry is a good choice
except that it was only 1 good half season. Randy Velarde? He was decent right?
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
He was also decent before coming to Oakland
Matt Stairs? Scutaro?
Nico - January 16, 2012
Josh Willingham had a career HR year here last year?
Then again, his OBP was 30 points below the career average. Seriously, stadium effects aside, players do seem to under-perform in Oakland to an alarming degree.
Milton Bradley had some short-term success here. And I can’t believe I’m using this guy as an example, but Mark Kotsay was great his first year in Oakland. He dropped off a cliff though.
Yeah, mostly been bad with the FA hitters.
Ciderbeck - January 16, 2012
Olmedo Saenz
Nick - January 17, 2012
ummmmm... did you forget 2011for rosales?
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
agreed
unless another move is coming this trade doesn’t make sense
NRC - January 16, 2012
Glad to see I'm not the only one
who hate this trade.
sf drift king - January 16, 2012
Guys who combined to start 117 of our games last year
are no longer on the team.
BWH - January 16, 2012
Greetings A's fans. Rox fan here....
One of your tribe was kind enough to pop over to our board to share some capsure summaries of our new pitchers, so I thought I’d return the favor. Here’s my take on Seth Smith:
Not a heralded prospect. Caught everyone’s attention by his pinch hitting performance. Absolute nails as a PH late and close, thus the nickname "Mr. Late Night".
Against righties, he’s smooth as silk. Reminded me (and I’m old) of Lou Piniella. Line drives, used the whole field. This all got him a ticket intot e everyday lineup, where two major flaws were exposed:
* He just can’t hit lefties. We thought he’d improve with more exposure to them, but he regressed.
* He a major defensive liability. No natural instincts at all.
He’d be a terrific lefty DH in a platoon. Or, if he went back to his original strength, a fine PH. As an everyday player? No.
Good guy too, from all accounts, BTW.
evers44 - January 16, 2012
yay more bad defense!
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
To be fair....
before last season, I’d rate his defense as “slightly below average”. This past season, though, he was utterly lost in the field to the point of being a major liability. So there’s always a chance he can return to “serviceable” status at some point.
evers44 - January 16, 2012
the Rockies stadium is a bigger outfield than Oakland isn't it?
(question to anyone who knows)
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
Yes, much
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
thanks
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
It's pretty huge in left and center, but Smitty usually was in RF
It’s not really about covering ground. It’s more about taking absurd routes on balls, letting line drives get past him. That sort of thing.
evers44 - January 16, 2012
Ooof.
That doesn’t sound too good.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
On the other hand, he's a good guy.
67MARQUEZ - January 16, 2012
I actually like him quite a bit.
Probably a lot of that is irrational “he was on my fantasy team”, but hey.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
LOL
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
As a Rox fan, I'll always love him for the big hits he got in the pinch.
Seriously, the guy’s a freak as a late inning pinch hitter.
evers44 - January 16, 2012
Also, in case it wasn't mentioned....
He’s set to make $2.415 mil this season.
evers44 - January 16, 2012
Yeah we got that all cleared up now :p
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
If you build your fantasy teams around Seth Smith and Jake Fox, I wanna play in your league.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
I wasn't very good.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
My best year in fantasy baseball was my first.
I finished a close 2nd. I haven’t played in a number of years now, but I never matched that finish.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
LOL
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
And FOR THE RECORD,
I never had Jake Fox. And Seth Smith was an injury fill-in who happened to OPS .900 while I had him. So there.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
JACOB Q. FOX!
iglew - January 16, 2012
Quirin!
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Emil Q. Brown!
iglew - January 16, 2012
KOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUZ!
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Yeah, you can play in this hypothetical league too.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Can I have Sweeney tuu!
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Only if I can get Keith Ginter and Jason Lane!
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
done!
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Well, if we're looking for silver linings,
I like him in that it will amuse me to refer to him as “Smeth Sith”.
Also, … um …. nope, that’s all I got.
iglew - January 16, 2012
Shades of E-Patsy?
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
yikes
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
good guy, aburd routes?
yay we finally replaced eric byrnes
buddahead9 - January 17, 2012
He and Carter can be friends! :D
Kyli - January 16, 2012
he's an average defender
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
Thanks
kbtoyz - January 16, 2012
Thank for the info. :-)
UncleLeo - January 16, 2012
See, this is what bugs me:
Let’s say that ‘evers44’ analysis of Seth Smith is spot on, then why would Beane not be aware of this? (Smith’s poor defense and his inability of his lefties?) ..unless there’s another move on the horizon..
In our analysis of our own players, we here assume other GMs know the same: that Moscoso is a “smoke-and-mirrors” pitcher, but many do not. We give MLB GMs too much credit in evaluating talent.
When we got Outman from Philly, he had high upside and pitched well for us before his TJS. So to give up 2 decent starters for another 4th OF is befuddling. We could have/ should have gotten more in return, imo.
sf drift king - January 16, 2012
Defensive stats appear to be a little more optimistic about Smith
UZR seems to think he is about average as corner outfielder and in a small sample size he looks to be slightly better when used in left field due to his arm.
OkayJay81 - January 18, 2012
like others, this is a head scratcher for me
I could see it more if Smith were younger.
Obviously things could change further but it seems like the A’s want to throw their young pitchers to the wolves but not their hitters? Did they see enough of Taylor, Allen, Carter at the end of last season to think they won’t stick?
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
I've seen enough of Carter.
Taylor and, moreso, Allen I think have a little bit of potential.
BWH - January 16, 2012
124 PA over 2 years is enough?
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Why?
He’s never gotten regular playing time, he absolutely destroyed the minors…don’t you think he deserves more of a chance than this?
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
I think he sucks.
I think he’s AAAA. I could be wrong, but I don’t see him ever being good.
BWH - January 16, 2012
There's just too much upside to plaster him with the AAAA label so quickly, in my eyes.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Based on?
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Watching all of his at bats.
I’m making a projection.
BWH - January 16, 2012
Not many AB's, unless you go to Rivercats games.
He’s barely played MLB.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Yeah
it’s a projection. There’s always guess work involved in projections of any kind, and I’m making an executive decision to short sell Chris Carter.
BWH - January 16, 2012
Fair enough.
I’d like to see him actually play before making a decision.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
the 1st 33 ab were tough to watch
but those HRs were nice. I will continue to dream until he is off the team.
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
I would like to see Carter get a shot to play everyday and see what he
can do.
We are not going anywhere so if he has a good ST then he needs to be told that he is going to play everyday (DH) and see how he does. There is a lot of pop there but it’s pretty hard to make it based on a few AB’s followed by 3 days off etc.
Trainman - January 16, 2012
but Carter always took time to adjust to the next level didn't he?
maybe I watched Carter’s Homerun highlights too many times.
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
Just flip on Smith's bomb into the Upper tank in Coors last year.
OaktownPower - January 16, 2012
ooo
good idea!
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
You will enjoy...
It is a BOMB.
OaktownPower - January 16, 2012
dudes love the longball too!
:-)
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
Ohhhhh my.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18371881
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
I got a toothache from watching that.
I also loved the Taco Bell uptate (2 MORE RUNS UNTIL WE GET TACOS)
67MARQUEZ - January 16, 2012
Uh huh.
OaktownPower - January 16, 2012
That thing was launched
Trainman - January 16, 2012
As long as we're playing that game...
Brandon Allen says hi.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
God, I love the mic distortion on that thing.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Screw the tacos. That one was worthy of its own franchise.
67MARQUEZ - January 16, 2012
As far as I'm concerned, that was all of 2011 for me.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
eh it is a HR, they all are the same to me for the most part.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Blaspheme!
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
That one is more than a homer...thign was crushed.
OaktownPower - January 16, 2012
Still counts the same
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Yeah, but it's like the difference between...
A WR taking a 5 yard pass and juking 5 guys on his way to an 80 yd. touchdown and a FB punching it in from 1 yd. out.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
both are 6pts
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
But one is way more fun to watch.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
I guess, different strokes and all
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
And we're back to hand jobs.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
"Wheel keeps turning... 'round, and 'round..."
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
"Oh the wheel in the sky keeps on turning..."
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Thanks for the journey back in time.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Big wheel keep on toynin'
Proud Mary keep on boynin’.
iglew - January 16, 2012
wow
true, they both count the same but … wow
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
The first time I read this
I thought it said the WR punched someone at the 1-yard line on the way to the touchdown. Aside from the glaringly awful example of unsportsmanlike conduct, it sounded kind of awesome
darooster - January 16, 2012
That would be pretty funny.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Now I'm not going to be happy until I see DeSean Jackson deck someone at the goal line
And if any receiver was going to do it, it’d be him
darooster - January 16, 2012
I wanna see someone sign Terell Owens just to punch someone.
Then cut him after the game.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
No, then cut the person he punches for being a victim!
Nico - January 16, 2012
Hopefully that person punches him back.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Can someone just punch Terrell Owens, instead?
YonYonson - January 16, 2012
Just don't punch him in the abs
Might hurt your hand
darooster - January 16, 2012
Sure. See above.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Sure, but one is way more fun and entertaining.
OaktownPower - January 16, 2012
depends on your perspective
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
that was entertainment
something I look for in a baseball game :-)
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
nice
thanks Dan.
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
Expect another FA pitcher, or two, to be signed ...
… Harden, Oswalt, etc.
I’m sure Beane does not want to rush Peacock, Parker, or Gray.
This also says that Beane is just not that high on Taylor, Mitchel, or even Allen. He wants them to put up better numbers at AAA, or just force their way up.
jeff-athletic - January 16, 2012
Taylor has been a bit of a disappointment
Beane could still be high on Allen at 1B, but probably not in the OF
JamesS - January 16, 2012
From what I hear, Beane thought Mitchell looked really good
But he probably wont be ready by spring training, so this does nothing to block him.
Taylor, he looks like a ballplayer, but that’s pretty much where it ends. 103 wRC+ at AAA last year. Cowgill outhit Taylor at AAA and it wasn’t even close.
Maverick10126 - January 16, 2012
If the trade signals anything to me,
it’s that the A’s just don’t believe in Taylor anymore. You have two OF spots to flank Crisp, whose re-signing means neither Cowgill nor Reddick is a CFer during Taylor’s window of opportunity to prove he’s for real. So you already had Cowgill, Reddick, and Taylor for 2 spots (plus a 4th OFer, so potentially still room for all 3) and now you add Smith…
Nico - January 16, 2012
or at least they're concerned that they need a plan b
stm72 - January 16, 2012
I don't think its a case of not believing in Taylor
It’s that Taylor (and Cowgill and Mitchell and Allen) has done nothing to warrant gifting him a spot on the 25-man roster. 2 young players will earn a spot on the roster as OFs this spring. Taylor could be one of them.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
Interesting thought that while we're focused on Parker and Peacock's service time,
adding Smith may have the benefit of saving on Reddick and Cowgill’s service time. Assuming it’s service time worth worrying about, which I’m not so sure. (I tend to care more about potential #2 starters than I do about tweener OFers.)
Nico - January 16, 2012
I see no scenario where Reddick does not make this roster
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
I would guess one of Reddick/Cowgill (Reddick)
and one of Parker/Peacock (Peacock) makes it.
Nico - January 16, 2012
are you assuming that milone makes it barring injury?
stm72 - January 16, 2012
I think he will and should
I think Peacock will and shouldn’t.
Nico - January 16, 2012
ok, just making sure i was following your logic. thanks
stm72 - January 16, 2012
I see both Reddick and Cowgill making it unless a Conor Jackson
type is signed then I can see Cowgill trying to reproduce hie ridiculous numbers in Sac.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
why would you bring up that name
why?
A'sFanDFW - January 16, 2012
seriously
not cool.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
You mean ot cool
You have to leave out one ‘n’ whe ever speaking about Conor.
Nico - January 16, 2012
Mainly for Kyli and I'm not opposed to having him as the 25th man
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
If you're not opposed to that, my question then is
What are you opposed to?
A'sFanDFW - January 16, 2012
Playing him?
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Tebow, Cal Bears, oh and the A's winning more then 70 games this year
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
but seriously if he is the 25th that means
a young player isn’t languishing on the bench and it at least (hopefully) getting ABs in Sac. He can back up both corners infield and outfield. This is moot if Donaldson makes the roster, then I’d rather not having CoJax around for his sake as that would probably be the majority of his playing time.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
I am a Seth Smith fan so I like this deal
I think he will hit outside of Coors and while I like Moscoso a bit, losing Outman is perfectly fine by me.
OaktownPower - January 16, 2012
His swing is a good one for not being harmed by OAK, right?
Line drive, all fields? Shouldn’t get suppressed much by OAK “park effects”.
Nico - January 16, 2012
OK
now I’m craving a Spring training gameday thread … even if the team won’t be any good.
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
Yes more OF please
Hello Conor Jackson
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
ohgodwtf
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Can Mr. Fox play the OF?
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
YES.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
BRING HIM BACK!
If Kyli can get her man-candy, why not you too?
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
WOOOO!
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Now remember this when you arbitrate my dispute with Jesa.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Will do.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
MAN CANDY FOR EVERYONE! :D
Kyli - January 16, 2012
the world gone wrong.
what the hell is going on here? does anybody have answers?!
King Richard - January 16, 2012
I have no idea what Beane is smoking
Rio - January 16, 2012
to play where!
from 1 guy playing every position to 5-6 (can’t keep count anymore!)
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
He can play at my place, any day of the week.
Kyli - January 16, 2012
the unknow player Beane is targeting is cute? how do you know? ;-)
or were you talking about Sweeney?
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
I think she was talking about Taylor...
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
Unfortunately, only Bob Melvin cares about my happiness. :(
Kyli - January 16, 2012
Bobby Crosby get your glove
We are putting you in the outfield.
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 17, 2012
Service time I hardly new thee
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
I don't get it. Help with what?
Are they rebuilding or not?
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
This, so many mixed messages the last 2 days.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
And I get the concept of a two-stage (or so) rebuild over the next few years, but still.
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
But flipping Colon, Smith or Cody Ross at the deadline will not get you any notewothy talent
Rio - January 16, 2012
DO NOT WANT ROSS
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Khhsssshhh---OOOhhhhhh
The rebuild is complete! Now I am the Master!!!!!!!!!!
ru155 - January 16, 2012
This
Rio - January 16, 2012
I seem to remember reading about Billy
saying that he wants to be competitive every year, including this year, and that’s why he’s still here.
A'sFanDFW - January 16, 2012
On the one hand, =(
On the other hand, service time matters 5 years from now, which is a long time. And I’ll still be watching this team on a nightly basis, and Jarrod Parker will be more fun to watch than Guillermo Moscoso or Graham Godfrey.
BWH - January 16, 2012
Ahh I had to log in to comment about this trade. Seth has been one of my fav players since I saw him play in A ball in like… 2005. I am excited! I hope he gets a chance and kicks some ass!
drmmerchk - January 16, 2012
I hope they just slot him in and let him play
Last year was the first time Colorado let him hit lefties so he struggled some, but I think he just needs some time against them consistently.
OaktownPower - January 16, 2012
wow, first no more swingles
now no more moose costco!!!
Deborah51 - January 16, 2012
Its an alright trade. Trading from a position of strength for a position of weakness
Then again, we also traded 2 puffs of smoke for a mirror.
Zonis - January 16, 2012
Yeah, ultimately we traded crap for crap.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
P.S. CPL and a new Rosterbation Thread might be incoming tonight
Zonis - January 16, 2012
Yippeee
Rio - January 16, 2012
I hate planning rosterbation
I prefer to rosterbate spontaneously when the mood strikes me
darooster - January 16, 2012
The Moose would have had so much more value if he had another good year this year
i am beginning to think billy only wants below average outfielders
moose>colon
anyone from AAA>seth smith
HUNGRY HUNTER - January 16, 2012
moose<colon
anyone from AAA<seth smith
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Stop your war on hyperbole, dan.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Did they give up more for Smith, than dejesus last yr?
J.J. Miller - January 16, 2012
Yes.
I think so, anyway. I’d take Outman over Mazzaro.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Justin Marks was the bitter pill to swallow
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Huh. I forgot about Marks.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
whoops I didn't post my sarcasm code, probably cause I closed it
but that was tongue in cheek
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
It's ok, I didn't mean that I was upset about Marks.
I seriously forgot about him. That’s probably an indicator of how little he mattered.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Absolutely
But DDJ only had 1 year ’til FA while smith is 3 years away.
grover - January 16, 2012
Smiles aren't as valued as some people would make you think.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Its pretty obvious this team doesnt have much confidence in taylor/carter/allen
J.J. Miller - January 16, 2012
It seems to have even less confidence in getting a full rebuild done.
Rio - January 16, 2012
I'd bet that all these players
will not be on the 2014 team
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
Well that was quick...
just gave up a stud reliever under control for many years for allen
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
stud reliever, I think not
Stud against righties only I can see, but he was far from a complete pitcher. Anything we get back value wise is huge. While I don’t think Allen or Noberto will amount to much it is about an equal trade
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Huh wasn't aware of that split..
Well i still think he had some better value and IMO Allen better be a starter to make it a good trade
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
The only thing that seems obvious about this team
Is no one has any idea who the hell Beane might trade or trade for next. Probably not even him
darooster - January 16, 2012
The thought that popped into my mind:
If someone had come onto AN and suggested this trade, how many people would have replied that it was a realistic scenario?
Nico - January 16, 2012
I think if someone would have suggested the trade
Our main question would have been: why?
darooster - January 16, 2012
exactly
Beane’s making trades just to make them.
DDroney - January 17, 2012
why?
I’m just reaching – but mosco and outman are fungible items, easily replaced. Their potential has been evaluated and realized. They now have a crop of outfielders, each with flaws but also untapped potential. If that potential can be harnessed in 1,2, or 3 of them, you have a stellar outfield in 2015 and the cornerstone of a dynasty!!!!!
OK – I said “IF”.
elephantman - January 17, 2012
I'm split
Outman and Moscoso had high xFIPs last year, but from what I’ve read (I’m a Red Sox fan), Outman could have been very good.
Moscoso may have been traded at his peak value though, and I think the A’s might have done a very good job exploiting an inefficiency for low-ceiling back of the rotation starters, which can be kind of fungible in the same way closers are.
dennet - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Outman has never been very good really
He had an okay season before his TJS, but nothing a guy like Graham Godfrey can’t do.
cuppingmaster - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app
Outman/Moscoso vs Ross/Milone/Godfrey
While it does lessen sp depth, all these guys project as back rotation types. I wouldnt be shocked if A’s sign another short term veteran sp.
J.J. Miller - January 16, 2012
I'd be fine with Harden, and he is a free floating roster spot
as well when he gets hurt.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
OK Billy this is absolutely ridiculous...
It’s time to fire Billy unfortunately. His desire to rebuild and contend at the same time is getting absolutely ridiculous. We can’t compete with angels or rangers this year no matter what we do (unless we get Fielder or some other impossible thing). Why not just let the young guys play and go for a good draft pick at the same time? However, at the same time, delay the time of the young arms and let them sharpen up in the minors before their trials. Billy made a good trade with gio, but the other deals are decent at best. His competitive nature is just not what this team needs. FIRE BILLY!!
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
I feel like I'm watching "Let's Make A Deal"
And Billy keeps trading the $500 bucks for what’s behind Door #3. And he keeps getting a donkey.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Haha good analogy...
(Five hundred dollar= Carlos Gonzalez) His moves are just putting this team in a position of perpetual mediocrity… Either rebuild or contend, anything in between is destined to fail
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
HAHA
This is perfect.
YonYonson - January 16, 2012
Were Moscoso and Outman ever going to be centerpieces going forward?
I think the A’s were lucky they got as much from Moscoso as they did in 2011, and he was traded at the best possible time, so that’s a non-factor.
For Outman, it depends on what you think he’d develop into. He could have figured prominently in the future as a stable back of the rotation guy, but so could the next half-dozen low ceiling back of the rotation guys the A’s are likely to pull out of their hats. And there might not always be a market inefficiency for fungible back of the rotation guys the A’s seem capable of producing.
So, I don’t know. Outman very well could have built up more value but he is not CarGo.
dennet - January 16, 2012 via mobile
No, but Seth Smith is not the answer to anything.
He’s a scarp heap outfielder with no upside.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
he's .282/.358/.456
So he’s this year’s Josh Willingham. I don’t mind that he has no upside. He still has what he has.
I also think there’s going to be plenty of opportunity for the other OF options to play just the same. You only ever end up having 1/2 of the talent you think you have.
dennet - January 16, 2012 via mobile
.282/.358/.456 being his away numbers
dennet - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I think he'd be a fine 4th OF for a team that's a contender, or close to it.
On this team, I don’t see him serving any useful purpose.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
hitting?
dennet - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I'd say that those 500 PA's would be better served evaluating players that could potentially be part of this team's future.
Smith is not a long-term answer, so what’s the point?
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
not leaving the lineup completely out to dry
This has been another edition of easy answers to easy questions
dennet - January 16, 2012 via mobile
So is this a rebuild or not?
You don’t usually build teams around mediocre 29 year olds.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
You haven't hung around a lot of CalTrans teams apparently
Nico - January 16, 2012
heehee
I can’t figure out how they get more vehicles to a site, than workers.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
How do you know he is not a long-term answer?
He is and will be relatively affordable and would fit well with any team. If he is unaffordable that means he has developed into an excellent player and we can get a good return for him. He is under control for 3 seasons.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
I know he's not a long term answer because he's 29 and he's a 2 WAR player.
He might be better than what they already have, but he’s still not good.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
When our time to contend is up
Smith will be 32-33 years old, maybe not even a 2 WAR player and a FA. And we have shown a talent to pull 2 WAR and bench players out of a hat.
So what answer gives Smith for our 2015 San Jose A’s?
Rio - January 17, 2012
an .814 OPS away from Coors...that is good.
He immediately becomes our best-hitting OF. Sad but true.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
so sign Damon or Vlad
and we have this year’s verison of Matsui, Dejesus, Willingham (Damon/Reddick/Smith).
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
A's were trying to compete in 2011
in 2012 I think it’s about having at least one player who can hit so the lineup’s not completely exposed. Even a team that’s not competing can want one hitter, especially at the price they got him.
dennet - January 16, 2012 via mobile
he's slightly better than scrap heap
He’s a useful player at least. He’s better than say, Fukudome or some of the other names that have been tossed around. He’s likely better than Sweeney although his fielding stats are all over the map, hard to really gauge.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
Maybe better than scrap heap
but definitely not scarp heap
darooster - January 16, 2012
Yeah, calling him a "scarp" heap OF was a little cruel on my part.
I apologize.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Such a jerk
darooster - January 16, 2012
I guess he's more of a Uriah Heep.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
The band or the Dickens character?
iglew - January 16, 2012
The band.
I don’t know enough about him to compare him to the Dickens character.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Smarmy twitchy pale redhead always kissing up
to the boss, but really trying to undermine him and take over. Dickens is not subtle.
Possibly the least pleasant character in all of Dickens. No idea what possessed a band to name themselves after him. I’m not saying everyone has to invent a machine that revolutionizes agriculture, but at least be someone who isn’t icky.
iglew - January 16, 2012
I know a little about the character. I know nothing about Smith's personality.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
but with the monte hall dilemma
the odds are always TAKE THE DEAL. maybe that is the approach billy is taking.
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
...
Your argument is to suck on purpose. Tanking is not okay, ever. And the other part of that plan is to hand jobs over to unproven players who very well may hit .150 all year. It’s nice, in theory, to get the top pick and develop guys at the big league level, but it practice that’s not okay for one of the 30 entities in the world whose job it is to win major league baseball games. There’s really no mortgaging of the future in this move.
That is a very very wrong statement. Again, we’re not mortgaging the future here.
BWH - January 16, 2012
LOL
I just unwittingly wrote “hand jobs”
BWH - January 16, 2012
That's one way to increase attendance.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
you can have my seats
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Wait, it depends on who is giving said hand jobs.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
You can probably find one under the BART ramp before games.
BWH - January 16, 2012
Thanks, but then why buy a ticket?
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
That's also one way to lure free agents to Oakland.
Beltre may have been a problem, though.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Maybe he thought Billy said "Head job"
Nico - January 16, 2012
For that kind of money, maybe Beltre was expected to give rather than receive.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Frankly, most of our new traffic these days
comes from people who were googling “get head” and got linked to the trade with Boston.
Nico - January 16, 2012
The ends justify the means.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Now the A's just need to acquire
Brad Hennessey, Jung Bong and Charlie Furbush, and they’ve got one hell of a Friday night.
YonYonson - January 16, 2012
recker and fister too
stm72 - January 16, 2012
BARELY KNEW HER
BARELY KNEW HER, TOO!
YonYonson - January 16, 2012
And Soler.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Can't wait for the battery of
Colon – Recker
darooster - January 16, 2012
{STILL FUNNY}
Nico - January 16, 2012
[pours out a 40]
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
You should do that anyway.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
(holds out cup to catch beer as it's poured)
darooster - January 16, 2012
Bots shouldn't drink.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
You told me he was a-foot.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
He's a bot-foot.
It’s a new unit of measure.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
It will be the new sabre metrics in 2015
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Be careful with me!
I can only catch so much beer.
cuppingmaster - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app
So the cupping is not cupping to catch the beer that you're a master at...
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
Heh
darooster - January 17, 2012
don't fprget to trade for
pooholes… err pujols
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
that was only after you said
suck on purpose
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
Ok I guess you're right...
Tanking isn’t right but then again that’s how Tampa Bay got good and that’s how Nationals are gonna be good soon.
I believe this is mortgaging the future in a small way as we’re rushing up arms and giving up years of control. Also while this trade isn’t a huge mortgage see: Holliday trade.
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
I only like this trade if...
Smith is flipped for better parts before he starts to suck in Oakland Colliseum
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
The Rays whiffed on their draft picks
for a long time
dennet - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Even recently.
Beckham over Posey/Hosmer in 2008. Jemile would have even been a better pick than Beckham.
BWH - January 16, 2012
My analysis:
I’m not so much pleased or mad about the trade, more confused. A couple mediocre starting pitchers well suited to pitching in Oakland and terribly suited to pitching in Colorado in exchange for a “good platoon DH” or “ok OFer,” who’s 29, to a team that’s rebuilding.
Nico - January 16, 2012
This
Exactly that
Rio - January 16, 2012
Exactly!
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 17, 2012
we traded pitchers than can protect our valuable and future big league starters for an outfielder that will block guys that need to play now. odd.
stm72 - January 16, 2012
Whatever the case
it will be fun following this team this season.
sf drift king - January 16, 2012
which, frankly, is more than I expected going in to this offseason.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
delayed reaction
I was pretty surprised at first by this trade, because I thought that the A’s were just starting to achieve the right amount of pitching depth with the Colon signing, and I thought the outfield depth has been fine since getting Reddick and resigning Coco.
But now what I think is that the A’s front office might believe that Moscoso represents this organization’s definition of a replacement level pitcher. Like Guillermo is the guy that Billy Beane confidently believes he can pull off the scrap heap again and again and again. If that’s the case, then trading guys like Moscoso and Outman makes sense, regardless of my feelings about balancing the roster.
colin - January 16, 2012
very plausible
I could see Beane thinking that way. I can also see Brad Pitt making this trade while Jonah hill looks shocked and Frantically clicks away at his keyboard.
micdog2001 - January 16, 2012
exactly
I think Beane thinks he’s found an inefficiency- fungible back of the rotation guys with low ceilings. Kind of like having fungible closers.
dennet - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Does this means we might sign Oswalt?
hmmm.
jahs34 - January 16, 2012
Paul Thomas pretty much called this trade in a thread a while back
After I saw his comment I had to look up who Seth Smith is.
I think it was obvious that we needed another OF. Reddick and Crisp weren’t going to fill 5 OF positions. Now we have Taylor, Cowgill, and Smith competing for a starting job. We also still have 2 OF bench spots. Smith likely will platoon.
But to echo colin’s comment above, where are they going to get pitchers? 2 pitchers that I was basically inserting into the starting rotation are gone, and they are going to need more pitchers. Realistically they need at minimum 8 SPs because Braden, Ross and McCarthy are very high injury risks.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
there is still time to pick up some scrap heap pitchers
(but no spots on the 40-man, unfortunately)
I think there are lots of guys who can replicate Moscoso’s results while pitching in the Coliseum.
colin - January 16, 2012
Wasn't there interest in Seth before last season?
I seem to remember quite a few people wanting to trade for him.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
beane gets obsessed with guys and wants them even years after they're useful. see jackson, conor.
stm72 - January 16, 2012
We also can't always just be GIVING Smiths to the Rockies.
Nico - January 16, 2012
haha, why not?
stm72 - January 16, 2012
Because all they want are Gonzalez's.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Couldn't we trade them Edgar G. then
Rio - January 16, 2012
No way.
We need the pitching depth
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Plus, he fits the "thick starting pitcher" role
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
The Braves have been discussing him this off-season many times.
OaktownPower - January 16, 2012
Here on AN, he's been a favorite of PT's.
iglew - January 16, 2012
Don't really get the desire to add Smith
Doesn’t seem like he’s all that interesting as a player on field or off. And we gave up two of our potential starters for the season up for him. I mean I got the other moves, this one just makes me wonder WTF is going on in the FO.
How much are RiverCats seasons? Because even with gas costs they might be the better value this year.
athletics68 - January 16, 2012
Yup I also understand other trades
However this trade still might make sense if Smith is flipped to captialize on the market’s demand for him
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
Also I think it's time to sign cody ross as well....
Platoon partner for Smith haha.. though seriously that would be a stud platoon
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
Also when we flip at deadline...
we can offer them as a package haha
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
OMG my head would explode
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Haha
I expected that comment would piss people off but hey if Billy doesn’t want to rebuild, why not just see how good of a team can made from some scrap heap material
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
JUNKYARD WARS!
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Exactly...
though the other teams involved in the war wouldn’t exactly be playing with junk but instead with gold (see Pujols, Albert and Wilson, CJ)
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
Also, I apparently watch too much TV.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
If Showtime's gonna cover the Giants, we're gonna get TLC, dammit.
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
Not sure I wouldn't boo Ross out of habit
Nor that I’d try to change that habit anyway. He ruined my life in 2010…
athletics68 - January 16, 2012
I totally get this trade, and there's nothing to see here
At first, like many I was confused about getting a 30 year old OF with wicked bad platoon splits and poor defense for two potential starters. How does this fit with rebuilding? Let the OF prospects have a shot, hold off on the service clocks for SP prospects, yeah yeah I get all that.
We all need to remember two things:
1. Seth Smith is not blocking anyone. If Taylor/Carter/Allen/Mitchell/Green/Choice/whoever can’t outplay Seth Smith then they don’t deserve playing time. Simple as that.
2. Moose Costco and Outman do NOT under any circumstances constitute “rotation depth” If Parker/Peacock/Gray/whoever are going to make the team out of ST, Moose and Outman ain’t gonna be the one’s standing in their way. They will outperform guys like that and earn roster spots, or the team will hold them back for service clock reasons. Moose and Outman have nothing to do with it.
This trade is not part of some grand plan to flip Smith or someone else for some secret holy grail. It is simple: we traded two pieces of crap for one piece of crap. Nothing to see here.
Hegenberger Road - January 16, 2012
One problem with this,
Seth costs $2.4M. He will play.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
$2.4 mln isn't expensive. even for us.
stm72 - January 16, 2012
No, but they will probably play him, or trade him.
I don’t see them sending him Sac.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
He can easily be on the bench a la Gabe Gross
$2.4M doesn’t guarantee a starting spot.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
Keith Ginter
sf drift king - January 16, 2012
Kouz says hi
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
That's because he stunk, not that someone outplayed him.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
just saying we have seen them send 3 million dollars down before
(pretty sure that was about his contract)
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
As I said below, I don't see them DFA'ing him.
Platooning/benching him, yes.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
i think kouz got closer to 4mil
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
also
he could sit on the bench and hold a bag of sunflower seeds until the 9th when he pinch hits the game winning homer. That’d be my plan.
Hegenberger Road - January 16, 2012
This is where I was going.
I inferred from your 1st comment, that if he were outplayed, he would be gone/DFA’d. I don’t see that happening. Backup? Yes.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
maybe
It’s not like there’s a multi-year commitment or anything. If he’s hitting he’ll get a spot, if not I can see the A’s cutting bait.
My point is this is not a move that impacts the rebuild or the team’s overall strategy. All three guys are small potatoes.
Hegenberger Road - January 16, 2012
I disagree strongly
Moscoso isn’t good. He isn’t the future. But we can and could parade him out every five days and not care if he got lit up and destroyed. He could still pitch there. We care if Peacock gets lit up and destroyed and becomes afraid of throwing strikes etc. We care about that for Parker too. Moscoso we didn’t. Outman we didn’t.
Yes guys can earn their spots but the A’s aren’t sitting $7M Coco or $2 1/2M Smith. PA’s quickly evaporate. This move is completely contrary to waht should be the strategy.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
I think you're missing the point
Pitchers where we “don’t care if they get lit up or destroyed” are not exactly a rare commodity. Its not like we can’t throw slop out there every 5th day now that Moose and Outman are gone. They’re completely replaceable. I hear Sidney Ponson’s available. I’m sure he’d be funny.
And if the A’s DO decide to put Peacock/Parker/Other in the rotation to start the year the reason ain’t gonna be that we traded Moose and Outman. You may disagree with that choice, and I think you would be right, but the two pitchers we traded are not the deciding factor in that equation.
Hegenberger Road - January 16, 2012
Ponson = Wiers lighting himself on fire, do it Billy.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
I don't think I am.
Because on our 40-man roster "Pitchers where we ‘don’t care if they get lit up or destroyed’ " (starting ones at least) ARE a rare-commodity…
They are completely replaceable if you think you can float tons of guys through waivers who you can’t. Or get rid of players we possibly need….
Moscoso was assured a role on this team barring injury. So one of the other starters has just had a space freed up for them. Outman yes it is questionable. He could be longman in pen, 5th starter, etc. But thats another opening now, especially true if our brittle pitchers like McCarthy or Colon falter.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
Ok, you do get the point
We just disagree. I think if we want someone to throw slop it won’t be that hard to make it happen roster move wise. You think it will.
One man’s slop (or Moscoso) is another man’s treasure (apparently).
Hegenberger Road - January 17, 2012
Whoa!
Haha. I do think we understand each other. But I am not saying Moscoso is a treasure. He is just there and already there and doesn’t require bumping others off the 40-man to do so. But we do disagree and understand the parameters of one anothers disagreement so now we have nothing left to talk about :(
dwishinsky - January 17, 2012
thanks for your responses
Cheers,
HR
Hegenberger Road - January 17, 2012
Okay, suppose Coco & Smith weren't there...
And the outfield was Cowgill, Taylor and Mitchell, with Allen at 1st base and Carter at DH, and all were hitting under .200 two weeks into the season.
Then what?
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
Oops. sorry, Cowgill, Taylor and Reddick
…and all except Reddick were hitting under .200.
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
It's bizarre to me that so many people think
that just because we’re rebuilding there’s some sort of mandate that it’s acceptable to win 50 games. You should still be aiming to be better than .500 at least. No Major League team in 2012 should be prepared to give Michael Taylor and Allen and Mitchell 500 PAs. It’s still a damn MLB team.
BWH - January 16, 2012
Why?
What is the benefit of being an 82-80 team?
It doesn’t draw fans, just look at Toronto, which has been “ok” just above .500 for years. How do you see what you have if you clog the MLB roster with guys expecting to play 140 games a year. (Coco didn’t sign for $7M to be beaten out by Jermaine Mitchell and lets not kid ourselves he was).
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
The benefit is winning 82 games.
It’s embarrassing and unacceptable to be bad. Now I understand that it’s better to lose 100 in order to later win 100 than to win 80 in perpetuity, but if you can upgrade at no long term cost then you have an ethical obligation to those of us who pay time and money to this team to make it as good as possible.
BWH - January 16, 2012
and why would you want to give a spot to Jermaine Mitchell?
He’s 27 and has played exactly 59 games above AA.
BWH - January 16, 2012
Because he is 27 and has played exactly 59 games above AA
Rotting on the vine? Its sort of now or never. He is on the 40-man roster taking up space. Prove it or lose it.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
And he destroyed AAA like Weeks.
Weeks had also not much more games above AA and turned out well enough.
Rio - January 17, 2012
Weeks is a lot younger than Mitchell
The number of 27-year-old position players who’ve barely played above AA and have gone on to productive major-league careers has got to be really, really low.
Nick - January 17, 2012
Nelson Cruz...............
dwishinsky - January 17, 2012
Cruz made it to AAA when he was 24
At the same age, Mitchell was spending a full year at Stockton.
Nick - January 17, 2012
dan gladden hit 351
his rookie year as a 27year old
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
Looking at Gladden's b-r.com page
First, Gladden had made it to AAA when he was 24 and succeeded there. Like with Cruz, at the age when Gladden was going .308/.364/.467 with 41 SBs in AAA, Mitchell was still in A ball.
Second, that .351 was in half a season, at age 26, and was by far the best he ever played in the majors.
Nick - January 18, 2012
Isn't it equally unacceptable to be just OK forever?
There are no ethical obligations at all. it is a business that can be run however the owner pleases. If you don’t like how the team does things find another team. Just as we wouldn’t say a bank has an ethical responsibility to be open outside of 9-5. Might be more convenient but then go to the bank that is open 8-8 or whatever. I get where you come from on this. But, I think that’s sort of out there to expect that teams have an ethical responsibility of any sort to anyone.
But let’s look at it like grades… an 82 win team is what a C? You pass, but it isn’t stellar. If you came home with straight C’s is that great? No. (Now, I get that one can say well F’s which is what this team is won’t be good but I’m looking at it one way that is that 82 wins isn’t unembarassing or acceptable. It is perhaps not humilating, but it should be unacceptable for the reasons you outline in your ethics argument)
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
People pay money to watch this team.
People pay money to watch this team be good, not bad. The A’s are rooted in the Bay Area’s culture, and for many people it is a source of enjoyment to watch a game at the Coliseum. That’s what baseball is about, so yes I do think it would be unethical to intentionally make a professional sports team bad.
And yes it is unacceptable to be just OK forever. I don’t see how acquiring Seth Smith hurdles us into an eternity in purgatory, though. This move really only serves as an upgrade over what we had before, with the only real cost being PA’s for Michael Taylor or Collin Cowgill, when I don’t think those PA’s should be guaranteed to them at all.
BWH - January 16, 2012
It doesn't, but what it does do is push back the queue
Of players who need extended looks. Taylor, for one, needs a half-year of MLB seasoning, IMO. Carter absolutely needs to be told the DH job is his and to concentrate on hitting. Barton and Allen need spots somewhere.
I’m a fan of this trade on a surface level for consolidating talent into a guy who is a useful player. I just don’t know why we traded expendable pitchers for an OFer. It’s like Beane zigged when he should have zagged.
cuppingmaster - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app
I think a lot of you on here are much more enamored with some of the A's
hitters than either I or the A’s organization is. Just because Michael Taylor is 26 and a former top prospect doesn’t mean he should be a major leaguer, same goes for Carter. I don’t think any of Taylor, Carter, or Allen are any good and it sure looks like the A’s brass agrees with me. The “eh whatever throw ‘em out there and see what we’ve got” isn’t a good strategy when you’re able to make a very informed judgement that “what we’ve got” stinks.
BWH - January 16, 2012
Unless you release these worthless players
they end up in Sac giving Bush a huge headache trying to figure out how to dole out playing time whist cutting into ABs down there that should be going to the Green’s, Choices (when he gets there) etc.
Carter has no business in AAA at all and deserves at least 300 PA (preferably more then 5 a week) in the bigs to write him off. Allen, well I’m not a fan at all, but he too prob should get another 150 or so. This should be Taylor’s make or break year, it does his development of hitting major league pitching zero good hanging out in Sac with another crowded OF fighting for time.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
I find it interesting that you think everyone is so easily written off: 35 PAs for Taylor. 124 for Carter. 367 for Allen… thats not even a full year between all of them
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
I think of all 3, Carter is the one that needs consistent ABs
After his horrid 0-32 start he really picked it up at the MLB level. I would actually put him in at DH for spring training and tell him it’s his job to lose. Allen had a chance to win the 1B job and didn’t, it’s probably best to have him and Barton competing for it.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
I think Carter should be the every day DH for at least 2 months, probably 3,
with no chance of losing the gig. Then step back and take a look.
Nico - January 16, 2012
If he doesnt make ti by then he wont ever probably
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
And if he's going to make it,
it will probably be because he knows he has the job, and can relax and just hit.
Nico - January 16, 2012
the thumb injury really killed Carter last year.
I want to see him at 100%. I believe he can dominate. He has dominated at every level.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
This is a key point
Nick - January 17, 2012
I pay money to watch the team.
Do you really think that me someone who devotes my time to my own blog, podcast and being a frontpage writer on this team don’t understand that baseball is a source of enjoyment? Do you think I don’t understand what baseball is about?
That aside… it is a business. People buy it. It isn’t a community held team, or non-profit organization. Its goal is making money, so it really isn’t that much different than cheering for Chevrolet or Ford on some level. But you and I both know it is more than that, but in some ways also it isnt.
Acquiring Smith takes playing time away from seeing what we actually have. What more does Taylor or Carter gain from another year at AAA? Nothing. What more does Cowgill gain from raking the PCL nothing? And what does Oakland gain from having Seth Smith? 1) I don’t think there’ll be a line of fans itchingt o finally see Smith. 2) I don’t think that he brings us a championship or even gets us to your 82 win promised land, 3) He does very effectively block a limited amount of PA’s to all the guys on this team. Shoot Coco Crisp did that all his own though you can argue that he does get some fans in. What is the point of having prospects play in Sacramento if we never fnd otu what they can actually do at the MLB level? Right now we do have that opportunity. It isn’t TRYING to lose. It is trying to effectively figure out what your assets are by actually testing them out.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
You had me at
Shoot Coco Crisp
Nico - January 16, 2012
HAHA!
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
ka-CHING!
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
I think my position can be summed up thusly;
All of you disagreeing with me are doing so on the basis that we need to “see what we have” while I think we already know what we have. These guys have long track records in the minors and each of them have binders and binders of scouting reports in some office at the Coliseum. I don’t think they need to be “tested out” because I think they’ve already been tested over the past so many years.
So no, I don’t think it’s wrong for the A’s to move on from guys like Taylor and Carter, because I think they’ve already had their chances. The jury is in.
BWH - January 16, 2012
MLB pitching and AAA pitching is not the same
35 PAs for Taylor. 124 for Carter. 367 for Allen at the MLB level tells you nothing.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
yes, MLB pitching is better.
By that rationale, you should just throw and 26 year old career minor leaguer into a lineup. It seems the A’s execs have made their decision on these guys, and that’s what they’re paid to do. They get paid to make decisions on guys before handing them a ton of ABs.
BWH - January 16, 2012
But one can question their decisionmaking
I mean certainly if we feel that they are a civic entity with strict ethical standards to meet for their community that community members can wonder if their decision making seems sound.
In this case it doesn’t.
But to your point, that you just throw a 26 year old career MiLB guy out there. That depends on your team. If you are a winning team do you do it? Absolutely not. This team is not winning any championships next year no matter what – so this is a great opportunity to do just that.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
It has worked that way with Sizemore
He looked like a lost case like Carter/Taylor. But he has performed after giving him a chance to shine.
I think you can not always tell how a player performs with only practice scouting an AAA time. Some guys get the jump better than expected ad some guys worse. A season like we have ahead is a chance to look at a couple of those guys.
I also think it is not getting everyone a free pass to a starting spot. But with Crisp and Reddick the starter to lose, it leaves LF and 4th OF job for a competition between Taylor, Cowgill, Mitchell, Allen (if Barton and Carter win 1B/DH) and maybe even Green/Moss/Peterson as longshots. It would not be a position handed out before the first practice. But a way better chance to earn a job in spring.
What I can see happening in spring is that Crisp/Reddick/Smith have their starting jobs, Kaaihue gets a spot at DH or 4th bench guy cause he is out of options (we know performance doesn’t matter there, Fox and EPat say HI). That means Carter/Allen/Barton can only earn two spots no matter how good their spring performance is, Cowgill/Taylor/Mitchell can only earn 4th OF job no matter their performance. And Rosales as the 4th bench guy together with Sogard and Kaaihue as the DH, leaving Barton/Allen/Carter one spot to earn is also not that unrealistic given the opening day roster desicions of the last couple of years.
Rio - January 17, 2012
Here's the thing
Yes, it’s “now or never” for these 3 guys, based on their ages and time already spent at AAA. No it’s not clear yet what any of them could do over the course of a full major league season.
Nico - January 16, 2012
Smith will be the Morse of 2012
im calling it now!
JamesS - January 16, 2012
Now you're speaking in code
Nico - January 16, 2012
It's not clear, but it's clear enough to make the call.
And that’s what’s been done, evidently.
BWH - January 16, 2012
How is it clear for Taylor
I mean really. Tell me what 35 plate appearances tells you.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
It's clear because he's hit .270 in the PCL for two straight years
with a middling BB rate and mediocre power. What on earth is his upside? .260/.330/.450? Can you ever see him doing better than that? That’s completely replaceable for a corner outfielder. It’s not like he’s got Jason Heyward potential. 220 games over the past two years in a hitters’ league should tell you plenty. I don’t know why I should have faith that a 26 year old should put up better numbers against the stiffest competition on the planet than he did against AAA pitching in a hitters’ environment.
BWH - January 16, 2012
That may be true.
But why not stick him in MLB?
Is Smith getting you to the magical 82?
Is Smith a long term solution?
Is Smith someone the fans want to see?
You can’t answer any of those questions affirmatively. What is the harm in seeing if Taylor has anything?
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
He has nothing. I answer definitively.
.270 in the PCL for 220 games tells you a lot.
BWH - January 16, 2012
His swing was messed up the first year
and he was getting better last year. Maybe he is a year more cleared up. He still has tools and a slim chance to put it all together at an advanced age. Its about giving him a real chance to earn a spot in spring.
Rio - January 17, 2012
Should be reply to BWH
Rio - January 17, 2012
What you could do is go back to his age 22, 23 seasons
where he tore up every level and was a top prospect and then theorize as to what went wrong. If it’s “he stalled” then he’s toast and that’s a real possibility.
But for all we know, maybe his diabetes was a factor, in which case he has a chance to bounce back and be a “late bloomer” in the way a pitcher derailed by TJS might come back stronger 2 years later than planned. You just don’t know.
Nico - January 16, 2012
Jeez
If Taylor shows he can hit AAA pitching really well, he’ll get his chance. Coco Crisp needs time off; Smith is a platoon player; and Reddick is all you’ve got every day. Plus you’ve got a DH spot. I figure that the A’s will sign Conor Jackson, and then a couple of these guys will break camp with the A’s. As injuries occur, they’ll be brought up and tested.
I think all of them
-- Cowgill, Taylor, Carter, Allen, Kila, Mitchell, and Cardenas-will get their chance in 2012.richwol1 - January 16, 2012
Never fear the 35-man roster is here
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
They have also been injured in each of the last two year, right?
Let’s get rid of Anderson as well. He isn’t contributing.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
It really is no different than completely writing off
Gio Gonzalez in 2009 (yes fine, he was younger and that does matter but the point is the same) He pitched 34 innings (7.68 ERA, 7.04 FIP) walked 6.6 per 9.
34 innings a career does not make. But its about as muhc as we have seen out of Carter and way more than Taylor.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
It just doesn't make sense not to give them a long look in 2012
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
That is my point
When will you otherwise?
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
Have they each had enough AB to say that they are valuable or not?
I don’t feel like I have seen enough of either of them.
Berry Jo - January 16, 2012
Curious, if Jai Miller was still around would you still
want him in AAA or in Oakland?
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Oakland, because the area under the seats are more in need of sweeping there
Nico - January 16, 2012
No need to sweep.
Just let him swing a bat and the whooshing sound of his miss will blow the trash away
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
ALOL!
That’s “Actually laughing out loud”.
Nico - January 16, 2012
AAA
He’d K 250 times in a full season in the majors.
BWH - January 16, 2012
If this team as constituted wins 82 games in 2012
You’ll be jumping for joy.
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
Honestly I'd be really fucking pissed if they finsihed .500
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Why?
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
Drafting 6 or higher (7 8 etc, that wording always gets me)
would be an abject failure in my mind. Too many years have been spent drafting around 10 and not going anywhere. They need to suck, and be good a sucking for a few years. Grab high picks and hope they nail them.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
I'll say it again
Putting a team out there for the distinct purpose of losing is unethical.
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
So be it, but that is my definition of success this year.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Ethics schmethics
If Cope or any other fans wants to root for the team to lose, that’s his choice.
Me, I want to win. I’d rather be 82-80 than 81-81, and I’d rather be 74-88 than 69-93.
iglew - January 16, 2012
If they want to root for the team to lose...
…that’s their business. But the team itself has to try to win games.
That said, the only way this group wins 82 games is if a couple of the aforementioned rookies or near-rookies have break-out years.
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
richwol gets me
BWH - January 16, 2012
That isn't rooting for the team to lose.
That’s really I think an unfair sentiment that makes it sound as if people like me and Copenhagen want us to lose. That isn’t true. I want us to go 162-0 next year. But here’s the thing.
We aren’t going to win. There isn’t a point in shooting for an 80 win team. If we have a team constructed that can win 60 something games and put us into a position to win 90-100 in a few years I think that is best and I think Copenhagen feels the same way. But if this 60-win-construct team wins 90 we will be happy just the same.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
No I will still be upset
Cause I’m fairly certain that won’t be a repeatable win total and some odd confluence events made it happen.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
You're dodging the question.
Of course you’d rather win 90 games than win 60. But would you rather win 70 games than win 60? If the answer is no, then you’re hoping to lose those 10 games.
This came up on with one of the guys from Lookout Landing a few years ago, when beating us in the final series cost the Mariners a draft slot or two. I asked him point blank — I think it was on AN, but possibly on LL — if he was wishing for the M’s to lose that last game, and he didn’t try to dance around it. He said, “Yes, I wanted my team to lose that game.”
iglew - January 17, 2012
It isn't that simple though
For me at least, I don’t want the A’s to ever lose (heart) even when it’d better suit them to lose (head). So it isn’t me trying to dance around it. I am sharing my deep and complex emotions with you. haha
dwishinsky - January 17, 2012
I don't want to lose.
However, losing now is probably best for the team in the long run
Tutu-late - January 17, 2012
We do not want to field a team of MiLB FA
We want a team with players that have a chance to be average or better but might also suck badly instead of players that are surely average but not more.
Rio - January 17, 2012
Agreed.
Kyli - January 17, 2012
in this case i think it is lower....
1 is at the top and all the other numbers are lower. someone who was picked high in the draft is a good prospect compared to someone who was pick low in the draft
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
I've deduced that they will finish exactly .500
Sizemore is really league-averagey at 3B, and Pennington is similar at SS. Weeks will likely be about league average at 2B next year and Suzuki is a “league average” C. Between Barton and Allen the A’s will probably get league average production out of 1B. An OF of Smith, Crisp, Reddick? Yup. The pitching staff is no longer that good but it’s also not that bad, and the bullpen figures to be “fine”.
I expect the A’s to exactly alternate winning and losing games the entire season.
Nico - January 16, 2012
(In truth I'm feeling about 72-90 ish right now)
Nico - January 16, 2012
I'm still saying 66-96, but the events of the past few days
will probably alter that
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
A new streak every day!
iglew - January 16, 2012
Cycle them out with
Jermaine Mitchell or Brandon Allen or Adrian Cardenas or Adam Rosales…
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
They had no problem last year
BA April splits:
Ellis .191
Kouz .208
Barton .209
DDJ .222
It’s close enough, and last year we wanted to contend and thought we had a chance.
They would still wait until June to move some guys in and out. And Carter couldn’t get a real chance even with Matsuis complete suckiness.
Rio - January 17, 2012
Carter was injured most of last season.
He played through it for a while but he wasn’t the same
Billy Frijoles - January 17, 2012
not complete...
july and august were good. tho too little too late
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
Seth Smith... Cindy Brady's worst nightmare.
Theth Thmith?
UncleLeo - January 16, 2012
GMs just never consider the "Cindy Brady" factor enough.
Nico - January 16, 2012
Theth Thmith batting thixth.
iglew - January 16, 2012
Thadly, Theth Thmith's thithter ith batting thevneth.
Nico - January 16, 2012
in the theventh thpot
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
How good is he with the thuithide thqueeth?
UncleLeo - January 16, 2012
parker and milone
should and will be in the rotation,,they have both thrown over 100 innings in the minors and done well enough to get to the show last year…what else do they have to prove in AAA? Do you really wanna hold them back for service time? these are players who deserve to play in the bigs…sending them to AAA could have a negative impact on their pitching..especially emotionally…dont forget these are people…confidence in sports is huge.
oakwin2004 - January 16, 2012
I like this point...
I didn’t think of it that way… However I really think Parker could use AAA time to get his secondary stuff back to par post TJ and Peacock also need a bit more AAA time, Milone might be ready however. Also they could mow down minor leaguers and build confidence that way
HarbirD - January 16, 2012
I keep seeing many comments about...
…not rushing Carter. Not rushing Taylor. Now, not rushing Allen. At what point do we actually find out whether or not they are MLB players?
UncleLeo - January 16, 2012
In taylors case the day he proves he's even a decent AAA player
Maverick10126 - January 16, 2012
That's been done already
Flashfire - January 16, 2012
Ok, proves he's too good for AAA then
Maverick10126 - January 16, 2012
Carter has crushed the minor leagues
but I think his competition for playing time with the A’s is Barton and Allen at 1B/DH. So I don’t think the new outfield depth affects Carter.
colin - January 16, 2012
And Kila
Maverick10126 - January 16, 2012
Wish they'd sign Mila.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
THAT would fill the seats!
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
It does in that Allen could've played LF
Helloooo 1st - January 16, 2012
Yeah but he got a very long look in a starting position last year, with consistent ABs, and hit atrociously
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
I'm just saying if the plan is Allen/Barton for 1B/DH
Then these outfield moves blocked Allen’s potential move to LF, thus blocking Carter as well.
Helloooo 1st - January 16, 2012
It's extremely unlikely that we end spring training with Carter, Allen, and Barton healthy and posting amazing spring training #s
If that’s the case, I’m sure we’ll figure something out. Otherwise, I think it’s fine to stash one of them in AAA.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
I don't really care about Allen
So if it’s Barton at 1B and Carter at DH I’ll be alright.
Helloooo 1st - January 16, 2012
Let's not forget (as much as I would like to) Kila is this mess.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
I forgot and will pretend I didn't read this comment.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
I got no time for other teams' discarded trash.
We have enough of our own to deal with right now
Helloooo 1st - January 17, 2012
Based on the offseason moves
A’s dont view them as mlb players.
A’s resigned crisp and added 3 new OF’s through trade, so much for Taylor just 2 yrs ago being hyped as a future corner stone hitter
J.J. Miller - January 16, 2012
It's Parker/Peacock/Gray that they should not rush
Parker has never seen AAA and his results post-TJ were not great like before.
Peacock has only 48 innings of AAA with mediocre results and scouting reports that see reliever in him. Which pretty much means he definitely has something to work on down in Sacto.
Gray is freshly drafted with good results in little playing time in AA. Has also enough to work on, that I would like him to even beginn the season in Midland.
Rio - January 16, 2012
IMO gray shouldnt be an option anytime soon
Some saying he’ll be ready by late 2012 is way too soon. I remember the mlb ready, polish of james simmons , that worked out well
J.J. Miller - January 16, 2012
Simmons has nothing to do with Gray.
Lots of first round college starters were ready for the show with very little minor league time, like Mike Leake and Tim Lincecum, who were both drafted right around where Gray was whereas Simmons was drafted far below Gray.
BWH - January 16, 2012
Hmm...
… I give it a “meh”
Trading from the fringes of the team’s “strength” to add to the fringes of the team’s weakness…
On the other hand, if he’s as good of a PH as reported, maybe he can be flipped down the line to a contender for something more interesting?
RickeySteals - January 16, 2012
parker
AA…..MY BAD…..
oakwin2004 - January 16, 2012
Smith
is this year’s attempt at David DeJesus.
Let’s just hope it’s the 2010 DeJesus that shows up.
CaseyRoyal - January 16, 2012
AL West, here we come!
Bartolo Colon = CJ Wilson
Seth Smith = Albert Pujols
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
Nobody gets blocked by this
Crisp, JRed and Smith, will open the year out there but does anybody really think they will “block” Taylor, Cowgill or others? I think not. It just gives a slightly more presentable opening day OF. Smith was a somewhat warm commodity this hot stove season and it is a nice pickup.
More concerning to me and heavily mentioned in this string already is how and who will fill those 2 rotation spots with. Parker and Peacock my be rushing things a bit huh?
bajablue - January 16, 2012
Good point, if these guys "block" Taylor and Cowgill then do we really want Taylor and Cowgill
If they can’t prove they can outperform Smith, do we really want them running out there?
Maverick10126 - January 16, 2012
There are still 2 OF spots on the MLB roster, so yes, nobody gets blocked.
Cowgill and Taylor I would guess are the front-runners. Mitchell would be in the mix if he was healthy. Allen could be in the mix, although I think he’ll be focused on trying to win the 1B job. Moss, Fiorentino, maybe Cardenas as well. The two best out of this pile of potential/dreck will crack the roster.
In addition, it’s not like Reddick has a stone cold lock on a starting spot.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
Crisp and Smith aren't blocking Cowgill and Allen/Taylor from getting MLB spots,
but they do prevent them from getting playing time, which is more important.
NateHST - January 16, 2012
We'll see, but if Taylor and Cowgill aren't good enough to win a roster spot it's a moot point.
Regardless I would rather the A’s go out and get a decent player like Smith than a CoJack or something to fill the roster.
The point is though that nobody in the starting OF is a world-beater (all 3 are probably near MLB average players). If any of the young guys perform they will see a lot of playing time.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
Last season we needed a trade partner for Ellis to get Weeks who clearly could outperform him on the team
Rio - January 16, 2012
The point is that even though we had Ellis, a stalwart in Oakland if there ever was one,
Even Ellis did not block a good player from coming up and proving his worth. So you can be sure Reddick and Smith would not block a truly talented player from playing.
They will, however, block AAAA and average AAA players, which is fine.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
but ellis DID block a talented player
who knows if weeks would have been called up IF ellis did not get hurt. lucky he did
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
All this tells me...
is that the A’s didn’t have much faith in Outman or Moscoso. If they though those guys weren’t going to contribute much and would be out of the rotation by June than getting something for them now makes sense.
I really hope they were right and we don’t regret this later. If it means anything, I think the odds are better of them being right.
DrDoom - January 16, 2012
I see plenty of comments here lamenting service clocks.
If a guy is ready, he’s ready. You promote him – you don’t throw his development curve into a blender to retain an extra year of control based on the owners’ portfolio. Jesus, this is one of the last sacred things that money in the game hasn’t defiled: when guys are ready, they start. Anyone purporting this to be a bad move because it starts a clock early has their head stuck in a cloud of cash.
Also, fangraphs thinks this move is laughably one sided. Sorry if this is a double link.
sleepingcobra - January 16, 2012
Except tey aren't ready
Milone is the only guy who even deserves consideration for the rotation out of ST.
Nothing Parker or Peacock do in the spring should warrant a spot, they are not ready.
stranahanahan - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Except Peacock got brought up by the Nationals last year
and the A’s think he’s very close, too. Since service clock shouldn’t be an issue, I don’t see Peacock getting a shot if he looks good in ST being one either.
sleepingcobra - January 16, 2012
He's got a total of 11 starts above AA
His K/BB rate in AAA was 2.0, and it was much worse in a SSS in the Majors. He’s simply not ready, and nothing he does in Spring Training will suggest that he is ready.
Parker also needs to continue to build arm strength coming off of TJS, and he should be doing so in AAA, instead of having to battle against lineups like Texas and the slegnA on a regular basis.
Am I missing something that suggest these guys are ready? Because I really don’t see it for either. Both these guys need to make 15 starts in AAA with success before they jump into the rotation.
stranahanahan - January 16, 2012
Technically the fangraphs article
only said that it was a bad move for the Rockies — it did not actually claim it was a good trade for the A’s.
Could this be a classic lose-lose trade?
AsFanInLA - January 16, 2012
Absolutely.
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
+1
Rio - January 17, 2012
Wow, what an absolutely terrible move.
I’ve now lost complete faith in Billy Beane to run a rebuild, let alone a ball club.
This makes no sense. Smith does nothing for the A’s going forward, other than fill space and take ABs away from Cowgill, Taylor and whoever else would otherwise get a look. Now I’m not saying any of them are going to be good, but we’ll never know unless we put them out there, and now we’re preventing them from doing so by putting an OFer who is the definition of average out there.
And then, to trade away Outman and Moscoso, 2 guys who were going to keep guys like Parker and Peacock in the minors a little longer, which they both need, is irresponsible and tells me Beane is just impatient again.
I’m incredibly discouraged right now, someone talk me off the ledge…
stranahanahan - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Taylor (and im guessing Cowgill is the same) still needs to show Beane he can be an every day OF in the mlb
JamesS - January 16, 2012
Neither will be able to do so spending another year in AAA
stranahanahan - January 16, 2012 via mobile
This
hero66 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
This is why the Coco signing puzzles me a bit
If you’re “finding out what you have,” wouldn’t finding out whether Reddick or Cowgill can cut it in CF be a good use of 2012?
Nico - January 16, 2012
You'll find out soon enough
You’ll know in spring training if Reddick or Cowgill can cut it in CF, and if so, it will give the A’s flexibility.
I think what all these signings and trades mean is that the team is not confident that any of the farmhand position players at the end of 2011 will be able to make the grade at the beginning of 2012.
I’ll say it again: these other guys have to earn their playing time.
richwol1 - January 16, 2012
Spring Training doesn't really mean that much...
Lest we forget our good friend Jake Fox…
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
danbot bait
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
GTFO
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
When robots get angry they spew random sequences of letters
;-(
Nico - January 16, 2012
it is the angry pressing of the keyboard
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
52c v7i6be
danmerqury - January 16, 2012
tempted to flag this, but giggs already warned you
so that is enough.
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Gigs
Short for Gigabytes?
Nico - January 16, 2012
Earn their playing time how?
I don’t understand this argument. Basically, we’re asking for any guy who wants a starting spot on this team to hit a hot streak for 20 games and if they do they’ll be starting.
There is a problem with this organization if that’s the way they are making decisions every year on the Opening Day rosters, and judging by some of those made in recent years, that’s probably exactly what they’re doing.
stranahanahan - January 16, 2012
They earn playing time by showing they don't belong in AAA
…and can hit major league pitching. Jake Fox notwithstanding, the back end of the roster makes the team based on spring training performance, but then they’ve got to perform in the majors. I have no idea why Fox and Patterson got so many chance, but they did
-and so will this crowd at some point.richwol1 - January 16, 2012
When they are 29 and out of options they will get a bench spot with a game a week or go on the waiver wire.
Rio - January 17, 2012
.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/rockies-add-more-chum-to-their-rotation-bucket/
sleepingcobra - January 16, 2012
There are still 2 OF spots on the roster!
Cowgill, Taylor, and the rest of our AAA/AAAA dreck will get a look…for the remaining 2 OF spots.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
No idea how to rate this until I see how they plan to use Smith
I mean, is he being handed a job opening day? Is he a strict platoon guy in an attempt to gain a competitive edge? Or is he a true fourth outfielder to be used if all the rookies collectively fail and we’re left with Smith as the contingency plan?
Ciderbeck - January 16, 2012
Too me, this reads "everyday player"
ru155 - January 16, 2012
To me
There was no faith in either Outman or Moscosco making the rotation. He really needed another spot on his 40 man roster and 1 or both were going regardless. He also did not want to be forced to carry or start a rookie OF. Smith is a solid OF who might be a 4th OF on a contender but not a bad starter on a .500 team. His salary is cheap for this year on a team that is probably being pressured to spend more then they recieve from profit sharing.
If one of the rookies hit this spring he will be carried and there will be a rotation between all of the Of’s, DH and 1st base assuring a lot of playing time for everyone. That and how often have the A’s made it throug springh training and the first month of the season w/o some injury or struggling to hit their weight. Smith is a solid player but not a super star and can easily be flipped later if we have roster problems.
ogallalabob - January 16, 2012
good summary.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
I dunno
I still don’t think there’s enough ABs to go around this year.
Carter, Allen, Kila, and Barton at 1B?
Taylor, Reddick, Cowgill, Smith for the two corner OF spots?
Actually, just adding Smith doesn’t add too much clutter. What I really don’t want to see are short leashes applied to these guys. If we’re going with say Taylor let’s give him a couple hundred ABs out there to show his stuff. Don’t want these guys going 0-one week at the plate and being shuttled to AAA.
My hope is that Smith starts the season as the 4th outfielder. I doubt that’s how it’ll play out but a solid pinch hitter would be fun and if injuries occur (boy a hope we fixed that problem some) then Smith’s ready to go.
Ciderbeck - January 16, 2012
OK
That helps my original dislike of this trade.
Thank you
RudiBlue72 - January 16, 2012
I think the starting outfield is going to be determined by cage match.
Kyli - January 16, 2012
batting cage match
Athletics fan and runner - January 16, 2012
No. That we can't win.
Nico - January 16, 2012
Most probably look much better in the cage then in game action
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
it depends
we might not be able to afford all that many tokens.
Athletics fan and runner - January 21, 2012
On the platoon thing...
The AL West is a little heavy on righties right now. CJ Wilson and Jason Vargas are the only lefty starters (not on the A’s) with a likely spot in opening day rotations. So it may be an ok time to acquire a guy like Smith.
DrDoom - January 16, 2012
Frankly Smith would have been the best hitter on our team last season.
So when you have a chance to trade completely replaceable pitchers for that, why not?
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
Willingham and Sizemore are sad that you've forgotten them.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Sorry, I should have specified, by OPS.
But yes, Willingham was a better hitter, Sizemore was probably better if you choose not to count his Tigers numbers. But Smith was very comparable to both, so adding another Willingham/Sizemore level of hitter, I’m not opposed to it.
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
I went by wRC+, by which Smith would have been the A's 3rd best hitter.
Even so, you’ve given up 2 cheap SP’s on a team that will probably need a lot of depth at that position (how many innings can you expect from Colon/McCarthy/Braden?) for a hitter that isn’t very good and can’t possibly fit into the long-term plans of a team that’s rebuilding. If you really want to get rid of Out Man and Moose Costco, at least get some young players with upside.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Yes
I am not mad that they got Seth Smith. But I also don’t think they got their money’s worth as Moscoso and Outman are two players that they need to get through the year, now they have to magically conjure 2 back of the rotation starters.
Since they are young players with no upside, unlikely that you would be able to get young players with upside in return, so I agree it does beg the question, why trade them at all?
Billy Frijoles - January 17, 2012
Because there is some replacement-level pitcher they can acquire for nothing?
cuppingmaster - January 17, 2012
Yeah, you're probably right.
I guess we just traded completely replaceable pieces for our best hitting OF.
Billy Frijoles - January 17, 2012
Outman and Moscoso aren't that young.
They’re 27 and 28 respectively. Even if they only yielded a couple of 20 year olds with live arms and poor control, or 1-dimensional position players, that would fit in better with the team’s long term plans than Smith does.
ozzman99 - January 17, 2012
At least one guy is in favor of Smith
niallmack - January 16, 2012
Hmm
Link?
niallmack - January 16, 2012
There we go
niallmack - January 16, 2012
ouch
seems that video was a little premature re: CarGon
ru155 - January 16, 2012
Hah
Wondering when that clip was going to appear. Could be accurate though if Cowgill, Taylor, and Reddick all push for some ABs.
Ciderbeck - January 16, 2012
Fangraphs seems to love Seth Smith
Fangraphs on the Seth Smith opportunity
Billy Frijoles - January 16, 2012
just read that too
they think Beane got a potential steal. Prove Smith can play everyday and trade him to a contender.
ru155 - January 16, 2012
I think Billy just likes to trade the players that we've given nicknames to.
I was ‘eh’ on Moose and Outman, I’m ‘eh’ on Seth Smith so… yeah.
Hitters from Colorado make me nervous. :-/
Kyli - January 16, 2012
Can we get a nickname for Zooks, then?
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
"Slugger"
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Irony, thy name is Tutu-late.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Kinda like his swings:)
especially the ones that hit him in the chest.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
bwahaha. i remember that AB.
Deborah51 - January 17, 2012
Smehth.
iglew - January 16, 2012
This is like some one offering you their car for your bicycle
Would you really say: Nah, I already have a car. derp.
Mattel - January 16, 2012
Anyone mention he was Eli Manning's backup QB?
harendaman365 - January 16, 2012
yeah, it's in there somewhere.
ozzman99 - January 16, 2012
Re: Fanfest
Can we get these players to wear name tags…
sf drift king - January 16, 2012
No need to worry.
As McCarthy said, they will need the name tags to introduce the players to each other.
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
I hope Smithi is more Erubiel Durazo
and less Matt Murton…
elBONESAW - January 16, 2012
Well, we could use a good DH
Ciderbeck - January 16, 2012
Holy crap!
I just heard about Michael Pineda for Jesús Montero. That freakin’ blows my mind.
iglew - January 16, 2012
Was this not all over the news up there?
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
Presumably.
I avoid the news. And I didn’t go to work today.
I just now noticed it on the SBN sidebar.
iglew - January 16, 2012
Welcome back from the cave abandoned by the Taliban?
(Is there anywhere else that didn’t know about this?) :D
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
The front page of AN
Nico - January 16, 2012
True...hmm...
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
Yeah.
Nico - January 16, 2012
It wasn't in any of the meta threads either.
Uh, not that I was spending all my time there are anything…. <looks at feet>
iglew - January 16, 2012
Moscoso and Outman
were surely not part of the 2015 plans, and Smith, very well could be part of the plan. To me that is the primary thinking of BB. Plus Smith adds some offensive creditability in the near future. I also think that BB will just carve together a starting rotation, until Anderson and Braden are healthy without pushing up the MLB timeclock on the newly acquired young pitchers.
Do I like the trade? On the surface yes, but as in all trades, it really remains to be seen. In this case can Moscoso and Outman learn to pitch at 5,000 feet, and/or can Smith adjust to the foul ball acreage and incoming winds in Oakland.
Who the hell knows the answers to these questions?
robertmelvin - January 16, 2012
I think they're all not part of the plan
Smith will be turning 32 and coming to the end of a contract, and has never been that good. Probably not a big factor in our 2015 plans.
Nico - January 16, 2012
His Bio says born September 1982?
or 29 years old by my calculations, and just entering his prime, so to say….so he could very well be on board in 2015. Of course, if he get’s too hot the first half of 2012, BB would probably move him for 2 or 3 prospects.
robertmelvin - January 16, 2012
Full Name: Garry Seth Smith
Born: September 30, 1982 in Jackson, MS
Height: 6’ 3’’
Weight: 210
Bats: Left
Throws: Left
College: Mississippi
MLB Debut: September 16, 2007
Choose Year2010200920082007200620052004
Biography
Garry Seth Smith…married to wife, Lindsay…the couple had a daughter, Sienna Elizabeth, last April (2009)…signed June 16, 2004 by Damon Iannelli…in 2003, Smith was a member of the USA National Team that won a silver medal at the Pan American Games…batted .322 with 4 homers and 9 RBI for Team USA…was a five-year letterwinner in baseball at Hillcrest Christian High School in Jackson, Miss…helped lead Hillcrest to Class 4A baseball state championships in 1997 and 1998…hit .434 as a freshman, .483 as a sophomore, .400 as a junior and .500 as a senior…named Mississippi Private School Association 4A MVP in football…was named all-conference in basketball (twice) and soccer (three times)…selected by Arizona in the 48th round of 2001 June draft, but went to Ole Miss.
robertmelvin - January 16, 2012
In 2015 he will be 32 and past his prime. He isn't even a solid fielder in his prime.
So 32 yr old FA who can’t field and is below average with platoon issues.
Rio - January 17, 2012
He's an average fielder by UZR.
Billy Frijoles - January 17, 2012
Not in 2015. He is average at his peak now, but look at the report here from the Rockies guy about this years defense.
Rio - January 17, 2012
With Crisp, Smith, and Colon on board
it’s probably time for the A’s to think about blowing this thing up and starting over.
RLangford - January 16, 2012
Isn't that what we were supposed to be doing?
Heh!
Berry Jo - January 16, 2012
Ludwick is OFF the table.
Reds To Sign Ryan Ludwick
Geronimo Berroa - January 16, 2012
Thank goodness
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
+1
Waiting for Damon to sign…. Elsewhere.
Geronimo Berroa - January 16, 2012
Well, now we can get onto the important business
Of signing Conor Jackson to a long-term contract. To play 1B.
cuppingmaster - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app
Can't he play "AAAA OFer"?
We don’t have enough.
Nico - January 16, 2012
dont forget his stellar 3B play.
JamesS - January 16, 2012
I'm honored to have seen one of his two 3B starts last year
Actually, he wasn’t bad there. But that was pre-Sizemore.
cuppingmaster - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app
Clause: Must have beard
Copenhagen - January 16, 2012
And keep the AN Hotties happy.
When they are happy, we ALL are happy!
Tutu-late - January 16, 2012
Great Move! Terrible Move!
..and everything in between, is what I have been reading. All I know is that I just voted an extra “tick” on scale for the A’s Condifence Vote on AN; up from 12.% to 25.0%. So it is double what it was before Coco, Colon and Smith, but still a 75% lack of confience in the team.
robertmelvin - January 16, 2012
I believe the exact phrasing is "how are you feeling" about the A's
That’s more vague than an MVP vote. Coco’s back? I feel great about the entertainment value. Think they’ll win the West because of Colon? Well, I feel like we’re not.
Interesting source of trade approval data. Just not sure what to trust. Maybe my trust issues are just cropping up because Billy Beane apparently watched Moneyball: The Movie over the holidays and said “I want to be like that guy!”.
Can you just imagine him in his office. Hey, I want Seth Smith. Who can we get for Smith? Well, the Rockies have about eight guys lined up for starting pitching jobs, but they don’t like any of ‘em. Hey, but there are some great buy low veterans pitchers on the market. We can ALWAYS just add another one of those. Hey, Colon, you’re on the A’s! Yo, Rockies, happen to have some MLB ready arms if you want to REALLY stir the pot in Spring Training. Only costs you Smith, and hey you don’t even like Smith so how’s about it?
Yeah, so, good movie, right? Especially when Colon won Comeback Player of the Year, Smith finished 3rd in MVP voting and the A’s once again lost in the first round of the playoffs?
Ciderbeck - January 16, 2012
If we do need another AAAA starting pitcher in May,
we’ll probably be able to claim one off waivers from the Rockies.
iglew - January 16, 2012
that's for sure
since they seem to be collecting them right now.
sf drift king - January 16, 2012
I've read that at least two of the ten candidates will likely go to the pen
So that only leaves three of Rockies pitchers completely out of the mix. De La Rosa is still recovering from surgery so at least until he’s back they will likely only be sending two of the AAAA squad back to the minors.
Crazy that no-one’s locked into starting spots, but not overly excessive hording. Going to be a wild spring for the Rockies. I do hope Outman makes the rotation. Even though he’s not with us anymore, I’m still curious to see if can turn into an effective mid-rotation MLB pitcher. Plus, purple stirrups, yikes!
Ciderbeck - January 17, 2012
at first i thought this was a joke
then I realized that Beane is trading away good players to teams in exchange for their for votes on a san jose move
gratefuldude - January 16, 2012
Adapt Or Die
The new market inefficiency is new stadiums. Look at Miami this year. Here’s the thing though. Those other teams spent years doing business off the field. Public votes, financing, ect. That market’s tapped. What we’ll offer instead is on-field talent. That’s right, we’ll turn the players themselves into a new stadium, then use that to get even better players. Genius.
Ciderbeck - January 16, 2012
If I am Colorado...
And i just got two fly ball pitchers at Coors Field… San Jose lost my vote…
dwishinsky - January 16, 2012
If you're Colorado, you should've done your homework.
Also, if you’re Colorado, you should be in favor of anything the Giants oppose.
ozzman99 - January 17, 2012
yes
the enemy of my enemy is my friend
heartstopper - January 17, 2012
ah, come on!!! I thought we were rebuilding!
Next thing you know we trade for another OF from CO who will hit .239/.299/.407 for us.
maybe we can flip him mid-season to the Cardinals for a pudgy third baseman.
oakballnack - January 16, 2012
well let's take a look, shall we?
There won’t be any Brett Wallaces, but there’s Matt Carpenter at 6’3’’, 200 or 2.67 on the Pudge Index. Zack Cox clocks in at 2.98 and Niko Vasquez is just 2.46.
None can ever match Wallace’s heaving 3.37, but you can only get so much pudge for Seth Smith.
dennet - January 17, 2012 via mobile
what did I just do
dennet - January 17, 2012 via mobile
We were all confused but I think I finally got it
Art Howe from the moneyball movie comes back to manage the A’s. He won’t play Milone because his fastball is too slow. Beane makes the trade force Art Howe to stop being a d!ck.
OnlybuyBeaneJerseys - January 17, 2012
Just Saw This
My first reaction was disbelief (what’s with all the moves?) and i didn’t feel that this actually helps the team, but looking at it, I feel that this a good – maybe even great – trade for Oakland. This changes the makeup of the rotation, meaning that some of the guys who we recently acquired will start the season in the Majors, and Smith could hit 20 homers and drive in 80 runs.
One thing this does show is that Beane is being careful with guys like Cowgill and Taylor, which is why he signed Reddick and now Seth Smith.
I like it.
Sean Fortuna - January 17, 2012
Smith couldn't hit 20 HR's playing in Colorado.
I really doubt he can do it in Oakland.
ozzman99 - January 17, 2012
this is going to lead to so much debate about pinch-hitting in later innings lefty-lefty matchups...
DDroney - January 17, 2012
I'd be thrilled beyond belief
if lefty-lefty late inning pinch hitting matchups wound up being important to our season!
Nico - January 17, 2012
Sometimes...
I think Billy just makes trades for the sake of making trades. Frankly, I don’t see any of the recent trades he’s made actually helping the team at all. Maybe he is just waiting for a stadium to be built & is just doing “busy work” in the meantime. All movement but not going anywhere. Just sideways stuff. What is sure is that the A’s will be a crap team for the next 3-4 years minimum. They will be an incredibly boring & non-competative team for the the next 3 years. Just wait till this season starts. It will be more interesting watching grass grow than the A’s. Gonna be lots of 7-1 and 6-0 games too. There are only 2 reasons for me to watch the A’s now-Braden & Jermaine period. I’ll wait until they are actually a .500 team before buying tickets anymore. Tired of watching crap on the field all of the time.
Bulgaricus - January 18, 2012
do you mean jemile (weeks)?
jermaine probably won’t be with the club at the beginning of the season
heartstopper - January 18, 2012
do you mean jemile (weeks)?
jermaine probably won’t be with the club at the beginning of the season?
heartstopper - January 18, 2012
oops. meant as a reply
heartstopper - January 18, 2012
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