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Minor League Update, September 1st

My timing is impeccable.

The morning after the A’s score 8 runs and Chris Carter hits 3 homeruns for the River Cats I come to AN to post a story about how underwhelming the Oakland offense has been and how we can’t expect to see any help from the farm system until July of 2010.

Gosh how I love feeling timely and relevant.

Today’s Minor League Update is my attempt to gauge when the Oakland A’s offense can expect to receive reinforcements from internal sources, i.e. the farm system. My estimates are meant to be conservative, as I don’t want to see players bounced back and forth between Oakland and Sacramento. When I post a player’s ETA it’s meant to be a permanent arrival… until Billy Beane trades him, of course.

Star-divide

Chris Carter: LF; ETA: July, 2010

The A’s have said time and again that once a player has success at AA the possibility of him being called up increases dramatically. The reality with our favorite baseball organization has traditionally been much more conservative, as the A’s under Beane almost never called up a player until he’d seen a fair amount of time in AAA. Then this season happened and Brett Anderson and Trevor Cahill, the top pitching prospects in the system, end up on the Opening Day roster with no more than 2 months experience above High-A ball! So we should expect to see the top hitting prospect in next year’s Opening Day line-up… right?

Not so fast. Carter’s AA line of  337/435/576 is oh so pretty, but he’s shown a tendency over the past couple seasons to start slowly. In 2008 he didn’t start hitting until June and this season the power didn’t start flowing until the second half of May, not hitting his 4th home run until May 18. Carter hasn’t exactly taken AAA by storm (OK, clouds were building last night) and I think he’s going to need some time to make a few more adjustments before making the Show. Give him a couple months next year to get his feet under him in AAA and let him make his big league debut when he’s going full tilt.

Brett Wallace: 1B; ETA: June 2010

Brett Wallace is one of the best hitting prospects in the minor leagues, but he’s barely a year out of college and his AAA line of 295/344/444 with 17 doubles and 13 home runs doesn’t exactly scream DOMINATOR. So sure, the A’s could rush him and start him in the Oakland next Opening Day… then probably have to send him down to Sac by early May so he can get his swing figured out. Let’s be proactive here and skip the demotion! I say give him 6 weeks to beat the snot out of AAA pitching and call him up when the rest of the PCL is willing to buy his bus ticket just to get him out of the league.

Adrian Cardenas: 3B; ETA: August 2010

The toughest player for me to guestimate, in large part because his arrival time is at least partly tied to the health (or lack thereof) of Eric Chavez. If Chavez collapses early in 2010 then Wallace will (most likely) get first crack at playing 3B. But if a miracle occurs and we actually see Chavez play again, then Cardenas (the most logical long term successor in the A’s system, even if the A’s themselves seem to be fighting that reality with every freakin’ breath) probably doesn’t see the Show until September, 2010. However, when betting on Eric’s health the smart money is always on the DL, so I’m bumping up Cardenas’ arrival date to August of next year. The only thing that worries me about Cardenas is the lack of power he’s shown thus far, but he’s young and has shown a knack for hitting so the power could still come.

Corey Brown: OF, ETA: September 2010

Call it woman’s intuition or maybe my furry blue coat has fried my brain, but I can see Mr. Brown seeing the bright lights of Oakland a year from today. It could happen even sooner if he has a wildly successful Arizona Fall League stint, segueing into a brilliant AAA debut but his strike out issues and missing half of the 2009 season begs for caution.

Corey Brown has the bat and the defensive chops to handle CF in the Show and who knows how long Rajai Davis can keep this going, but Brown has got to stay healthy and take advantage of his opportunities when they appear.

Others of note: Josh Donaldson does not have the skills to be a starting big league Catcher. His arm is strong but tends to be a bit scatter shot and he allows too many Passed Balls. He does show some solid hitting skills and might have enough versatility to play on the infield corners, making him a valuable bench asset down the line. The A’s seem to be fast tracking Jemile Weeks but he won’t see Oakland until the A’s are unicorn free. Weeks will most likely start next season in AA but I expect the A’s to look for reason to promote him by June. Sean Doolittle is still recovering from his knee injury and the A’s want to see him play Winter Ball. But Wallace’s arrival and Carter’s development pretty much make it RF or bust for Doolittle and he missed a golden opportunity to get his foot in the door this season.

That’s it. And thank you for your support.

(I need a catchier closing line.)

3 recs  |  118 comments

Comments

Good writeup.

Still not convinced Wallace can hack 3B though?

Also, I thought this relevant given your quote


When I post a player’s ETA it’s meant to be a permanent arrival… until Billy Beane trades him, of course.

That's a tasty shirt
One of these days I'm going to actually order it.
You rang?

<img src=“http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt351/labarthe/Picture3.png”/ height=200>

I haven't found anyone who thinks he's going to stcik at 3B long term

He might see some time at 3B in 2010 but long term I think Cardenas earns the spot.

Glad to see you online, grover

We’ve been wondering whether we’d be more likely to find you on the fire line in SoCal or Placer.

The A’s always have so many moving parts that it’s hard to project promotions, with the possible exception of the guys the club wants to build around (e.g., Carter, Wallace, and possibly Cardenas). For instance, Sweeney and Cunningham could affect Brown’s timetable. As you point out, Chavez could affect Cardenas (and to a lesser extent Wallace, though I think they’ll promote him when they feel he’s ready and find a place for him in the lineup). Even Barton could play a role in the DH/1B (and therefore also RF/LF) promotions.

Didn't get sent to SoCal and missed the Auburn fire

I did work late on Sunday while covering a station that sent its engine to the fire and am working today (normally an off-day) because my forest sent 4 engines to SoCal.

I like the closing line

I can see the Bartles and James dudes in my head.

thats what I thought
Not to rule out

  If a player has a great spring they could make the team out of spring training. Look how Anderson and Cahill made it when most thought they would be mid-season call ups. Out of spring training call up betting line..

Doolittle, Wallace, Cardenas, Carter, and Brown.

  If Doolittle has a good winter ball and a great spring he will be on the opening day team. Wallace and Cardenas only if the A’s can’t find a 3b in FA or Chavez is on DL most likely. For Carter he must have a spring that says I am ready now. Same with Brown.

No, maybe, no, no, no

This is getting ridiculously ahead of things, but still…

There’s a pretty serious 1B/DH logjam getting ready to form with Barton, Doolittle, Carter, Cust, and potentially Wallace if he doesn’t cut it at 3rd. I don’t think that’s going to be accelerated any.

Looking at positions

  Cardenas will play if injury to Ellis or Chavez or they don’t sign a FA 3b. Doolittle and Carter can play outfield most likely better than Cust. Wallace at 3b. Barton better have a good spring or any of the 3 could start over him or Everidge. Lots of ifs so they could also all satrt AAA.

Where are you getting this information from?

Carter has played over 100 games at 1B between Midland and Sac. He’s played less than 20 games in the outfield.

If he was going to be put at a corner OF spot, he’d be playing a corner OF spot in the minors.

I wish someone could explain

to me how someone can’t play leftfield. I am not asking for gold glove just competent defense.

Start with this

I think Jack cust only clanks in Right field

But seriously, Its not that hard. If you can’t judge flyballs, they got people who will hit you 500 a day. Maybe if you can’t run, like powell of Frank THomas. Otherwise, come on.

PS I could watch that all day, and it looks like I will

It's a lot harder than you give it credt for, I think.
TWSS
Hi sir.

How’s the Kraut?

I'm flattered by your presence, sir.
it's happened before, especially when expected starters are injured in spring training

examples include Buck and Street.

Let us pray that Eric Chavez is not listed as the "expected starter" entering spring training

I have no problem with him getting the job if he is actually healthy, but expecting that is, at this point, insane.

That was the case last year, IMO.

Didn’t stop the Org. from letting him run out there until he broke. Again.

He'll still be Plan A, even if there's a clear Plan B.
Exactly

It’s time to give up on any expectation with Chavez.
Hell, we all should have a year or two ago.

I couldn't...

and I don’t think I could next spring… argh!

Eric Chavez is like waiting for Mychael Urban to understand UZR

He’s so frustrating that you just want to give up, but then you just can’t give up and hope he keeps trying. And he keeps disappointing you.

Chavez said that he wants to play 3B in the spring and if he can't he would like to be the DH

So is 11Million a year too much for a DH?

When it's a DH that still isn't healthy? Yes.
And a DH that isn't, um, good...
yes

Someone needs to gently tell him that a DH that puts up an OPS of .700 has no value.

The only chance to salvage any value out of him is if he can be an above-average defensive third baseman again. Sadly, I think this has less than a 5% chance of happening.

In response to PT: Unfortunately, I wouldn’t put it past the team to use Chavez’ lingering “presence” as an excuse to not spend FA millions at filling third base.
 
The team may know full well that anticipating a recovery for Chavy is borderline delusional. But they can away with publicly saying, “We’re all rooting for a Chavy comeback, and that position will be his for the taking if he can come back healthy in spring of ’10, which we think he can do.”

That’s a much easier public relations statement than, “We know we have a black hole there, but we have no intention of filling it, because we’re last in attendance this year and next season we’ll only win 76 games anyway.”

Expecting Eric Chavez to be the starting third baseman is less insane,

I reckon, than expecting Eric Chavez and Justin Duchscherer to be the center of a successful advertising campaign, which has unfortunately already happened. Didn’t Beane make a comment about his spirit animal being an ostrich at one point?

I would just like to remind you that Cahill did not have a good spring

it started well and then he got lit up like a fire cracker.

and Gio and Duchsherer were hurt

and Gallagher was too travis like

BTW, great post Grover

I think this is a great timeline to expect each of these players to arrive in the bigs.
I think that really of any of the real hitting prospects in the system, Cardenas, Carter and Brown are the only 3 who really have a chance at making a large contribution next year.
Doolittle really needs one solid, healthy year in AAA to prove he can hit big league pitching.
Therefore, we have to assume these arrival dates to be the best for the players’ development as well as the teams.
As much as I would love to see Carter, Wallace and Cardenas all crack the Opening Day roster, there needs to be serious thought into whether that’s the right decision for the team going ahead.
If these guys do rake in Spring Training, and MAC all take steps forward, 2 other starters emerge, and everyone else in the lineup improves, than maybe we bring them in to try and compete. But you can’t depend on solid production from a rookie and it could end up like last year.
So, even if they look strong, give them all at least til June to see time in Oakland, delaying arbitration by the year and giving the A’s at least one more year until they decide to trade these guys.
Another huge what-if, but one that needs to be seriously considered, is how important that extra year could possibly be in regards to the chance of resigning one of these guys to a long term contract. If a stadium were to get built around that time (I know, a huge hypothetical, but still), it could give a payroll boost enough to be able to resign one of these guys if they show the promise we are all hoping for…

OK, have not read your post yet...but I will after I say this...

Thank you for doing what you do.
I am in SoCal in the heat and smoke so this is fresh on my mind.

Takes a special person to sacrafice themselves to help others.

Take care.

Thanks for the kind words
Would it be such a bad idea to try and trade for J.J. Hardy?
yes

look at his numbers since he’s been in AAA…

which is why he may be cheaper?

I don’t know. Just saying, if the A’s ever have a chance to get a player like him, it will have to be when he sucks.

His stock is absolutely plummeting.

Though it is interesting that his contract is now extended another year because he was down for 20 days, but I still couldn’t see giving up anything too significant for him.

Yeah

He’s obviously a good ballplayer, but you have to wonder if there is an attitude problem with him, but based on his comments and numbers, this demotion didn’t exactly motivate him to get back to where he once was.
Problem is, some team will still overpay for him, so you’re eventually going to get into a bidding war. Unless they covet someone in this organization who Beane and company don’t, they’re going to want something significant, because you have to believe that the Brewers front office thinks they’ve increased his value quite a bit with the extra year of arbi…

Well, there's not much he can do about it.

It’s gotta suck to know you’re getting jerked around or that the team is playing games with your service time, but it’s hard to file a grievance or something if you get sent down and continue to hit like shit.

While it’s real easy for schleps like us to sit behind the computer and say that Hardy should STFU and go mash the ball to get his stock back up, sometimes it’s not that easy.

I'd trade for him in a heartbeat --

he fills a position of huge need, he’ll never be cheaper, he’s suddenly under contract for two more years, and at WORST he’s a good defensive SS with some pop — basically Crosby his rookie season — while at best he’s kick-ass.

18 games

Is that the data set that leads you to conclude that it would be bad to trade for him?

You’d take him, but you don’t want to give up something significant?

You know who should acquire J.J. Hardy?

A team with a terrific hitting coach. A great fit would actually be Texas, if not for the fact that they already have game’s best young shortstop on their roster.

Their hitting coach, Rudy Jaramillo, has such a good reputation for re-building people’s swings and getting them back on track. That’s the kind of guy Hardy needs. He isn’t just getting unlucky; he looks terrible at the plate right now. He literally is swinging like a pitcher.

Unfortunately, I’m not confident enough in the A’s hitting coaching to give up anything of significant value for J.J. Hardy anymore.

I’m excited to see what Pennington can do. He’s fast, he’s got average range, a tremendous arm, he’s a great bunter…maybe he can parlay that skill set into a decent 2010.

Does Jaramillo have some special method of getting guys to hit well

other than saying, “You get to play half your games at the Ballpark in Arlington”?

I’m not saying I know the answer, but the Rangers play in an incredible hitters’ park, and it wouldn’t shock me at all if his reputation was based mainly on park effects, rather than on him being a new Charlie Lau/Walt Hriniak.

he also worked with Jeff Francoeur during the offseason

and when Francoeur abanadoned what he’d learned Jaramillo actually called him up and scolded him.

Kind of hard to tell from Francoeur's hitting this year what to think of that

He was just as terrible this year as he was last year until he got traded to the Mets, after which his power numbers have jumped. Still, Francoeur’s problem seems to be that he swings at anything that isn’t a pick-off throw (he has all of 5 BBs and 27 Ks in 47 games with the Mets). I don’t think a swing doctor can fix him if he won’t stop swinging at pitches that are nowhere near the strike zone.

Comments should be rec'd more frequently
Baseball would be so much easier to figure out...

if there were hitting coaches who can actually consistently coax out above-talent-level-performances from the players. Just sign them instead of an overpriced FA.

I think his reputation is based on lots of players thinking very highly of him...

and, ultimately, that’s extremely important in a hitting coach. It’s not like any of these guys are hearing “squash the bug!” for the first time.

Like any student, players probably are far more likely to embrace instruction from people whose technical expertise they respect.

Plus, hitting’s very psychological. If you think the guy can’t help you, or is giving you bad advice, that’s a major problem. Placebo or not (and I certainly don’t think it’s entirely placeboic), I would find it extremely valuable to have a hitting coach, pitching coach, and fielding coach with a terrific reputation.

If I owned a team I would be willing to poach a Ron Washington, Dave Duncan/Mike Maddux, and Jaramilo for a million apiece. They’re probably just as important as the manager (if not more so), and it’s literally less than 5% of your team’s payroll. All it takes is one player to have a Joel-Piniero-with-Duncan’s-sinkerball-tutelage-type breakout to overwhelmingly justify the expense.

Don't we have the ex Brewers hitting coach that built his swing the first time?
As good as Carter's three homers look...

…the first two were against Seth Etherton, who allowed 10 runs on 12 hits in 5 innings and hasn’t pitched in the Majors since 2006, and his last was against Scott Dohmann, who allowed 7 runs in 1 inning. That and the ball looked like it was carrying easily in Reno in spite of a pretty calm night.

Granted, those are probably homers in most places anyway, but they didn’t come against very stiff competition. Still, it’s a very good sign and as noted in the minors report it looks like he had a good, fundamental swing on the first of the three. I’ve just seen him look bad on some off-speed stuff (which he didn’t get thrown much of last night) but I know he’s got time to continue to get better, like he’s been doing.

I’m excited to see what his ceiling will be but definitely don’t want to see him rushed.

I believe you meant to type

OMG! CARTER HIT TWO HOMERS AGAINST FORMER MAJOR LEAGUER SETH ETHERTON!!!!!!!!

(see how I spun that??)

Skillfully done
Big Urb ain't got nothin on me.
and Urban doesn't have a Byg Ass Gryll TM
How do you know?

Odds are he won’t be asking you over for dinner anytime soon, so this is one question that would be hard to research.

Call him up NOW!
I do like how they're taking things with Carter right now

Giving him a couple weeks in Triple-A after what he did in the Texas League is a nice reward, plus he’ll get to experience a playoff run as well. With Sept. 1 call-ups taking place today he’s probably going to be facing some talent that’s not that much different from what he saw in Double-A anyway, so it’s not a big change.

That's a good point.

I wonder what type of spikes in production many AAA players have in September, when a lot of the more promising/big-league-ready players are called up to the big club, thus thinning out the competition and flooding many AAA rosters with AA guys..

Seth Etherton throws a palmball, too!
And a meatball

Four of ’em, last night.

Thanks for the first-hand report.

This touches on some questions that I’ve had about Chris Carter, just based on the box scores. I’ve noticed that in AA he would have a lot of monster nights that would pump up his numbers, and then an occasional line of something like 0-5 3K. It makes me wonder if he has some major flaws that a decent pitcher with a scouting report would be able to exploit. I’m as excited as the next guy about Carter, but there’s something about his numbers that gives me pause.

I don't see what you're saying

Carter was on fire for a long time in Midland….remember, he had that 24-game hit streak.

Oh okay, I'm probably just wrong.

I don’t check the minor league report every day, so I probably just saw a couple off nights for him and assumed he was more inconsistent then is actually the case.

What I noticed, in a small sample (one game, 5 ABs),

was that he swung and missed pitches by a foot when they dropped a foot, but he handled everything else (pitches up, pitches down, ordinary offspeed stuff) just fine. Now an MLE for that would be “not much success” because most major league pitchers can throw pitches where they pull the string and the bottom drops off. But if/when he learns to handle that pitch, he could be mucho dangerous.

So you see him having problems with a Gio type curveball?
At this point, yes

From my observations he definitely needs more time to handle breaking balls and general junk.

Hey Nico, how’d you like Scott Patterson? Wild delivery, or what?

Perhaps "The Franchise" was a tad generous.

Regarding Carter, I also see him having trouble, right now, with any changeup or sinker that has a lot of “drop” to it. But anything up, or anything straight at any level, and he has a quick and powerful swing.

I can sum up Chris Carter in two words for the time being:

Pedro Cerrano.

Chris hits straight ball. Ball goes far. Chris doesn’t like it when ball moves much or is slower than expected.

Is this the guy?

Yep

Not that I think Carter is really Cerrano reincarnated, but so far there’s no questioning he mashes fastballs and struggles with other pitches.

eveland, blevins, kilby called up
so A's have now 4 lefty relievers

breslow
blevins
marshall
kilby

I want eveland to start

I know he has been bad, but he needs it.

Eveland gone...Sacramento rotation = EWWWWWW

Simmons
Mortensen
Chacon
Reineke
Some guy (Who knows? Who cares? Scott Patterson?)

Of course Eveland’s departure doesn’t bring it DOWN to “EWWWWW”; just gives me an opportunity to point it out.

Guess I'll see who starts in place of Eveland tonight
Simmon's on the DL
True Athletic!
Chacon too...

but they did pick up Chris Gissell (Korea?)…I think he was was the MVP of the bricktown showdown last year

Gissell was pitching in Taiwan
Jerome Williams
What's wrong with Simmons, by the way?

I never actually heard.

Strained pec I think
That's so close to "strained pea"
Also...

‘Bout time Kilby got a shot…he’s been awesome this year. Except for the “touches his own ass with the ball while pitching” thing.

Angels name Sean Rodriguez as PTBNL kazmir trade

i know his name was mentioned in a potential deal with wuertz around the trade deadline

What will the Rays do with him? 2B?
Yeah theyll let Aki walk and then put him as sub behind Zorbist and Bartlet
Can he play OF? Will he just do what Zobrist used to before he became Mickey Mantle all of a sudden?
Rodriguez isn't much of a SS. I guess he could play there in an emergency till they called

up someone from AAA in case of injury.

Right well they could move Zorbist to SS and give Bartlet the night off

or they could play Rodriguez there if they don’t care about having a bad defender there on occasion.

Why didn't we try to claim him?

Seems like he could’ve, you know, helped.

2 years, 20 million reasons.
I think he means Sean Rodriguez
that's why he's the PTBNL

he wouldn’t have cleared waivers. Or didn’t.

This may be off topic

Great job as usual Grover, however am I the only one that did not know Grover was a woman? or was that woman’s intuition thing a joke? Just curious.

Oh, yeah. grover is a HOTTIE, too.
Grover is indeed sexually attractive.
For a muppet, yeah.
AN to me , just like work, is a gender neutral environment

I do not perceive a man or a woman – only a poster. (see old movie No Time for Sergeants)

So it's like work, or sex, for you then?
both being sore subjects
I'll keep my maleness, thank you
I'm on the same Estrogen treatment ManRam was on

Lower case “g” when saying my name, please.

Does Seseme Street's grover use the same capitalization patterns?
Nyet!

His name is always capitalized due to his greatness.

three hr's? whoa!

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