Where do you start with a game like this? The best way may just be with some quick hits. Speaking of which, the A's had a lot of those tonight and not a single one left the yard. It was the first time the A's had 20 or more hits in Fenway Park since 1969, something nobody would have predicted seeing tonight's lineup card.
Let's look at a few key moments.
* Down 7-4 going to the ninth, the comeback started with two away as Tommy Everidge's first hit in the bigs, a booming double off the very tippy-top of the Green Monster, plated Jack Cust, who had taken second on defensive indifference after a walk. That seemed small at the time but it proved otherwise.
* With the count 0-2, Mark Ellis hit a slow grounder that Nick Green threw away. Everidge scored and Ellis went to second. It was a very bad mistake because Ellis was safe all the way and they could have kept runners at the corners.
* After Ellis stole third, Rajai Davis hit another slow grounder that Green once again threw away, tying the game and blowing the save for Jonathan Papelbon.
* In the eleventh Ellis doubled with two away, his fourth hit of the night. Davis came through with a full count single through the hole to right. After Davis swiped second Adam Kennedy's fifth hit of the night (and third RBI) plated Davis.
* The two run lead was big as Andrew Bailey allowed back-to-back singles to open the bottom half of the inning. A sacrifice bunt followed by a grounder brought the score to 9-8 and Bailey got Dustin Pedroia to fly out to left for the win.
This was one of those games where it looked like the A's are going to tease us again only to come up short - and by all accounts they should have; thanks Nick Green - so pulling it out in Boston after trailing 6-2 could be a big confidence builder for these guys. They played very well overall and came through in the clutch numerous times.
After not allowing a run since the All-Star Break, Boston's bullpen coughed up seven runs, six earned. On the postgame show they said this is also the first time the A's have come back from a three-run deficit in the ninth in Fenway since 1930. It's not always going to go like this but when it does it sure is fun to watch. Yes, especially when it happens in Boston.
Oh, I'd like to thank the A's for giving me a fun one to recap.
0 recs | 433 comments
I don't know what's more surprising
Bob Geren showing some sense of a pulse, or the A’s coming back in the 9th for once.
Hit4TheCycle - July 28, 2009
Now
2-47 record after trailing in the 8th inning! Woot!
ST - July 28, 2009
for twice
SwisherThresher - July 28, 2009
I remember that '69 game.
Well, kinda.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
In a 3-game sweep at Fenway
the A’s outscored the Sox 38-13, including 21-7 in the middle game (they had 25 hits).
Reggie homered once on Friday, twice on Saturday, and once more on Sunday. In 14 at-bats, he had 9 hits (4 HR’s, 2 doubles, 3 singles), with 6 runs scored, and 15 RBI’s (10 on Saturday alone).
He was a pretty good player, that Jackson.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I had the green sheet from the Chron giving details of the 21-7 game. I kept reading and re-reading it.
The numbers in the boxscore were so overwhelming, even to my 9 year old mind. In pre-internet times, I lived for moments like that. I loved the green sports section. Wish I still had that one.
JJ Martin - July 28, 2009
I hear ya.
I used to fight my brother for the sports page.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I was 8, and viewed Jackson's performance and the box-score as mythic
RLangford - July 28, 2009
Even if he didn't give Rickey an autograph
Flashfire - July 28, 2009
He got a pen with his name on it. What more do you want?
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Which is strange because he gave me one.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
It’s because you’re better than Rickey Henderson.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
So they should retire 67 instead?
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Clearly.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
That game was 17 years before I was born.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
That game was 22 years before I was born.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
That game was 22 years after Jamie Moyer was born
Nico - July 28, 2009
He’s older than my mommy.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Wow, now THAT's scary.
Oh, and DFA is only 22? Didn’t know that.
iglew - July 28, 2009
same here.
or is he 23? either way…
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
23
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
How old did you think I was.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
I had you in your mid-30's, at least.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I always think that how people are percieved on the internet is interesting.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Yeah.
And I really try no to assume, but in your case, definitely had you for older (you may read that as wiser).
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I think everybody does... its just natural
There was a thread on minor league ball about players that were though of as being a different race than they are. I was surprised how many I had wrong. Hopefully, the political org that have interviewed with 4 times and be told 4 times that they will hire me will actually give me a job so I can figure out if I can come to AN day. Otherwise Im probably back to Oregon or to NY to find work and going to miss it.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Here's hoping you can make it.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Yeah, it's weird when people meet me and I'm not a complete gentleman like I am online.
mikev - July 28, 2009
I'll admit it, the first time
you grabbed my ass, I was shocked. I got used to it by the third time though.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Consistency is key.
mikev - July 28, 2009
And technique
There’s also something to be said for muscle memory.
Flashfire - July 28, 2009
me too.
micdog2001 - July 29, 2009
I would have guessed about 28 or 29.
iglew - July 28, 2009
You sure as hell
are a smart kid. Wish mine were more like you……Oh wait, they’re your age and still have me paying all their bills. Maybe they’re smarter than you.
alox - July 28, 2009
Ouch.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
LOL don't worry Im unemployed and living at home
but I did get a US Senator elected in 2008.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Oddly enough....
this comment does make me feel better.
But U.S. Senators are all the same I don’t know why one of them would fuck it up by becoming POTUS.
alox - July 28, 2009
I knew mine for two years before he decided to run and I started on his campaign
One of the humblest and most competent people I have ever met.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Well....
let that be a lesson in life. If you ever get the greatest job possible on planet earth, don’t fuck it up.
alox - July 28, 2009
Oh and thanks for the compliment.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
LOL
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
It's spelled "mummy" and I had no idea you were Egyptian.
Nico - July 28, 2009
I can be Egyptian when I feel like it.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
But can you do the walk?
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
No.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Susanna can.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
R-Star has no clue what you're talking about.
pam5981 - July 28, 2009
I know. Poor kid.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Sigh.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
She's a my-age kinda girl.
But still hot.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Precisely.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Then you remind me of O-Cab
Nico - July 28, 2009
I am Bobby Crosby, though.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Why must you utter such things?
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Because I think its super cool
The history of baseball is what makes it the greatest of all the sports. I think its way cool that you were actually there. I mean the earliest thing I can remember is sitting on my dads lap watching Eck close out an A’s game. I slept through the 89 quake because my mom had to put me down so I wouldn’t fall asleep during the series. This is what the heart of baseball is.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
agreed
Although I was only 2 in ‘69, but yeah. And sitting on dad’s lap while watching Eck close out a win? Not a bad first memory at all, DFA.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I'd just sat down as well
I was watching highlights of Game 2 with some cinnamon toast when the quake hit. I was 12 at the time.
Flashfire - July 28, 2009
LOL! Am I the only one who got this ?????
nice one 67M!
mrod - July 28, 2009
I just got it.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
It's why the ticker beats differently for you mrod.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I read that as "tickler"
mikev - July 28, 2009
ah damn
I wrote it as tickler.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
WOW I cant believe I missed that.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
That’s what she said.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
:) Good.....
mrod - July 28, 2009
Caption
I’m sick of sniffing my finger, so I thought I’d try for your breath
doctorK - July 28, 2009
Caption:
Can I give you a big hug and a smooch?!
streetfan - July 28, 2009
Caption
Oakland Manager Bob Geren describes a fish he once caught that was “this big” as the umpire ejects him from the game.
Jackson23 - July 28, 2009
you stole my idea!
mrbendy - July 28, 2009
Love the ghostbusters reference
Love geren getting tossed too. It’s great to see our manager standing up for a young pitcher not getting the calls.
jnm - July 28, 2009 via mobile
I just watched the Blu-Ray version of Ghostbusters the other night
Ahh, what a classic. Still loving the video game as well.
Flashfire - July 28, 2009
I just got that blu-ray too.
I got the game too but haven’t played yet. Still hooked on MLB the show. In my season Barton and buck play everyday and our record is 33-15.
jnm - July 28, 2009 via mobile
the red sox announcers agreed
They couldnt’ believe the calls Vin wasn’t getting
SeanR - July 28, 2009
ECK
Eck was definitely on Mazzaro’s side… I’m sure Eckersley will get some hate mail from some Red Sox fans for backing the opposing team. Well done, Eck.
Colorado Fan - July 28, 2009
Eck
While it was certainly obvious that he is on the Red Sox payroll it was nice to hear him stick up for the A’s at certain points in the game. His defense of Mazzaro and praise of Geren (for getting ejected) was awesome.
Athletics fan and runner - July 29, 2009
And even better to see him out of our dugout and off our bench!
A real win-win situation!
GreenNGoldSooner - July 28, 2009
Nick Green had a long month tonight in the 9th
doctorK - July 28, 2009
one mistake often begets another in sports
tough being human and playing for money…
One won lost won - July 28, 2009
Nick Green should worry about his starting SS job.
I wonder what upper management thought of those two errors today.
Blicks - July 28, 2009
hopefully they think cabrerra
Future Ed - July 28, 2009
You think the Red Sux might be looking for a new SS?
Maybe a veteran on a hot streak? A proven winner? Gee, who has one they’re willing to part with? I’m sure Billy Beane has taken notice.
guapobob - July 28, 2009
Green made a great case for Cabrera.
JJ Martin - July 28, 2009
What a way to lead into Anderson.....
pitching tomorrow, and after the way he pitched last outing at Fenway, we may just get a split in this series.
0akFoSho - July 28, 2009
"Dolla dolla bill, ya'll"
RenoTy - July 28, 2009
Ghostbusters!
There’s something weird, in your neighborhood!
Loving the comeback, the hits, and the miserable pout/ sneer on Papelbon’s face in the dugout! :)
streetfan - July 28, 2009
Papelfail's sulking is always priceless.
Blicks - July 28, 2009
PapelBUM
That’s what my friend who is a Yankees fan calls him :)
streetfan - July 28, 2009
The 1930 game:
Boxscore (sans the play-by-play)
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Sigh
It’s too bad this year’s team doesn’t have any players like XX, Cochrane, or Al Simmons.
doctorK - July 28, 2009
Seriously.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I think they're all a little past their prime.
But they could probably make this team.
Beware Zombie Jimmie Foxx!
GreenNGoldSooner - July 28, 2009
/cocks shotgun
mikev - July 28, 2009
I'd let him eat my brains, if he'd give me his autograph first
doctorK - July 28, 2009
Foxx
Seriously, it is telling that his nickname was “the beast” and he was only 6 foot and 195 pounds. that is a middle infielder in modern baseball. Players are a lot bigger now. People are a lot bigget now. Heck, I am a freaking marathon runner and I am almost that size.
Athletics fan and runner - July 29, 2009
What we can learn from tonight and the game in 1930.
If coming back from 3+ runs down, score them in the ninth inning.
mrbendy - July 28, 2009
When I saw the lineup for tonight
I’m pretty sure I posted something like" that Bob Geren he’s a genius batting Reverse Ramon third, what a great batting order I’ll bet they bang out 20+ hits."
Now it’s possible my memory is wrong on this but hey that post was like 5 hours ago and I’m too lazy to look it up.
sirbed - July 28, 2009
Actually I think I posted that.
mikev - July 28, 2009
nice win A's!
I love comebacks.
micdog2001 - July 28, 2009
really that movie sucked
adragon - July 28, 2009
#redsox is a trending topic on twitter now…hahaha
harendaman365 - July 28, 2009
I loved this game.
baseballgirl - July 28, 2009
I love the way the A's played:
Run, scrap, create, grind, win.
Nico - July 28, 2009
Agreed.
Just a load of fun!
GreenNGoldSooner - July 28, 2009
Almost like the teams of yesteryear.
or within the last six.
mrbendy - July 28, 2009
It was a great game!
I watched it from the seventh inning on and it was great.
Seb - July 28, 2009
21 hits is a lot of hits
Like, a lot.
Joey C. - July 28, 2009
The A’s obviously won because I left the open thread just before the ninth.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
agreed.
also, don’t go read back. OAH got feisty.
mikev - July 28, 2009
"got"?
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
oh you know what i meant
mikev - July 28, 2009
Si.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I will now go back and read.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
I too left
Reading.
Orodawg - July 28, 2009
I sadly had to leave.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
me, too
My computer was threatening to melt.
iglew - July 28, 2009
My mom was threatening to kill me.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
my mom was threatening to melt my computer.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I think I was in more danger than you were.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
well
she was going to light my face on fire first and then hold it to the computer
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Okay, you win.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
My computer was threatening to melt my mom
Oh my.
Athletics fan and runner - July 29, 2009
My mom can kick your computer's ass!
Gaijin_Suketto - July 29, 2009
If she's younger than Jamie Moyer
then she is at most only three years older than me.
iglew - July 28, 2009
yep
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Don’t get used to it.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
k
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Oh Joy!
I am in Boston right now. Didn’t get here in time to get to Fenway but I’m definitely here in time to see dozens of miserable Red Sox fans returning to my hotel and that is SERIOUSLY fun :-)
itsgemme - July 28, 2009
START A FIGHT
mikev - July 28, 2009
That's pretty easy to do in Boston after a Red Sox loss.
Though back when I lived up there it was long before the recent bout of Red Sox winning, so you could usually get them going just by mentioning Buckner.
GreenNGoldSooner - July 28, 2009
I tried....
…. but obviously “HA HA HA you lost to US and Papelbon is a pussy” was not enough to get them going
itsgemme - July 28, 2009
I might love you.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
The Key to the game
Geren getting tossed because after that the A’s did get the proper strike zone. Before the A’s pitcher was getting screwed. Thak you geren for getting ticked. many other games I felt he didn’t stand up for the team but tonight he did.
Arcman - July 28, 2009
One that I think will get over looked,
is the relay to get Bay at home. Great throw by O-Cab, well played by Swoony, and why would you try to score Bay from first? seems idiotic to me, unless Bay has speed that I do not know about.
mrbendy - July 28, 2009
That's a really good point -- with nobody out
that was not a good base-coaching decision, and a terrific relay by O-Cab.
Nico - July 28, 2009
eck
Eckersley loved that play. It was pretty important.
Athletics fan and runner - July 29, 2009
Nick Green's glorious 9th inning...
…may finally compel Theo Epstein to call Billy up and brew up a deal. Theo has gotta realize the Sux aren’t winning anything with Green at SS. Here’s how we hope the dialogue will go:
Theo: Hey, Billy, how’s it going…we could use a shortstop.
Billy: Well, for Lester, Pedroia, Buchholz, and Ellsbury, I can send you a really good one in OCab…
Theo: WTF? That’s a four-for-one, you’re asking a little much…
Billy: Well, then, I can send you Crosby…he’s a SS…then it’s only 3-for1, and I’ll even let you pick which 3 in that group….
Theo: I don’t know, Billy…
Billy: Could I put you on hold for a minute, Theo? The Twins are on the other line…
Theo: OK, Billy, OK! But I’ll only throw in $5mil…
kitoko - July 28, 2009
Of course, Theo could be calling the Cardinals about Julio Lugo
itsgemme - July 28, 2009
"you must be kicking yourself in the head now"
said in the best Russian accent.
mrbendy - July 28, 2009
Teddy KGB
mrod - July 28, 2009
Great movie
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
One of my all time favorites. I must have watched it at least a couple dozen times already...
And one of JM’s best performance, I might add.
mrod - July 28, 2009
one of the best poker movies of all time
It is right up there with the cincinnati kid
adragon - July 28, 2009
great knowledge...
mrod - July 28, 2009
:: Plays Gary Radnich sound byte. ::
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
He use to judge HS speech and debate tournaments drunk when I was in HS
true story.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Now I truly like the guy.
alox - July 28, 2009
No
I mean seriously who shows up drunk at their daughters HS speech tournament? Thats messed up.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Obviously, you don't have daughters.
I have three of them. Check back with me in twenty years.
You’’ll be singing a different tune my young friend.
alox - July 28, 2009
Ok but you didn't work your ass off so that some drunk could judge you
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Who are you kidding?
That happens every single day of my life.
alox - July 28, 2009
your perpetually stuck as a 16 year old in a HS speech tournament?
NICE
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Worse.
By far, so much more worse.
Life can be a motherfucker. Don’t forget that. It’s important.
alox - July 28, 2009
Dude I work in politics....
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Don't we all?
alox - July 28, 2009
No.
Only people that have never worked in real politics say those kinds of things because if you ever have you would know that the rest of the world is nothing like it.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
And you know all about the rest of the world?
You are wise indeed my young Socrates.
alox - July 28, 2009
Well not all of it but the parts I have seen..
and I know enough people who have moved between worlds
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
At least you were careful....
about your response! So it goes. Kurt Voneguat was wise…..at least to my muddled recollection.
So how does one move between worlds?
alox - July 28, 2009
you can't work the hours and burn out
you cant live with no money or job security and you burn out
you get a girl and you burn out
you decide that you want to have clean laundry besides when you leave work early to go buy more underwear and you burn out
you decide that volunteer pizza is giving you an ulcer and you burn out.
Then you get a job with health care vacation and only a 40 hour work week.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
motherfucker
m…o…t…h…e…r…f…u…c…k…e…r
motherfucker
adragon - July 28, 2009
You think that's fucked up?
I’ve had judges who have been blazed out of their minds, and start laughing their ass off when I make a joke during a speech. You also have judges who absolutely hate certain schools, so if you’re from one of the schools the judge hates you’re screwed.
Having a drunk judge is honestly not out of the ordinary, nor is it really that bad.
Orodawg - July 28, 2009
My best judgment is when I'm inebriated
shooting4life - July 29, 2009
as a current debater
You offer inspiration. Did you judge Policy or LD? Those are the only ones I’d get drunk for…
Orodawg - July 28, 2009
Ive judged Policy and Parli (which I did in college) but Im an extemper at heart
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
I do extemp as my speech event, fun stuff
Especially when you make up sources, always fun.
I dabbled in policy, but srsly cards are overrated. Public Forum is made for me.
Orodawg - July 28, 2009
Dude making up sources is bullshit.
Try parli when you get to college its fun.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
How many ANers are recovering debaters?
Seems like it’s a ton of us.
(L/D and Extemp in HS; Parli in college…reporting for duty!)
GreenNGoldSooner - July 28, 2009
NO I'M NOT
mikev - July 28, 2009
That isn't an argument.
It’s just contradiction!
GreenNGoldSooner - July 28, 2009
no it's not
mikev - July 28, 2009
Eww LD
I couldn’t handle it, way too random when it comes to theories and philosophies I couldn’t care less about.
PoFo though, not so much a debate form as pure bullshit condensed into 35 minutes. Simply awesome.
Orodawg - July 29, 2009
Blecch.
Now I know why the trade threads so often piss me off. You guys are programmed to care more about out-bullshitting each other than about figuring out which side is actually right.
This is why I hate debate. It teaches all the wrong lessons.
iglew - July 29, 2009
+1,000,000
Lawyers suck. Juries suck. Judges suck…
…except for Mentok, the Mind Taker, of course!
Gaijin_Suketto - July 29, 2009
PT was
Which I think is why a lot of people didn’t get him.
designatedforassignment - July 29, 2009
Oh I got him...
Which is why in the end, I grew to loathe him.
alox - July 29, 2009
Oh man, I hate debate so much
Could any academic activity possibly be more poisonous? It’s worse than boxing.
iglew - July 28, 2009
Nothing is better
Than crushing the hearts of TOC bid teams. Nothing.
The looks on their faces when you roll them is priceless.
Orodawg - July 28, 2009
Victory at any cost!
This is the stuff that human endeavors are made for!
“What is good in life Conan?”
“Seeing your enemies crushed and driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women”
alox - July 28, 2009
Funnily enough
That’s the line that describes our mentality in debate.
Perfectly.
Orodawg - July 28, 2009
Of course it is!
alox - July 28, 2009
Oh man, I hate all of you right now.
iglew - July 28, 2009
We can never hate you though iglew.
/pat
Orodawg - July 28, 2009
Truth is profound!
I hate that shit. But there’s really no other game in town….is there?
alox - July 28, 2009
What's funny is talking about winning a debate.
meanwhile I’m getting all the debate chicks drunk.
mikev - July 28, 2009
nice....
mrod - July 28, 2009
And the truly wise ones...
want to be drunk? And hear your stupid bullshit? And buy into it?
Dude…we so need to go bowling.
alox - July 28, 2009
amen brotha.
mikev - July 28, 2009
mad props brah
Orodawg - July 29, 2009
Nah, not that far.
I’m just dumb so I never bothered with debate.
mikev - July 29, 2009
Mike V, you're dumb like I'm old.
It’s more AN persona than reality.
iglew - July 29, 2009
Eh, I'm pretty dumb.
mikev - July 29, 2009
Eh, I'm pretty old.
iglew - July 29, 2009
Clearly you have never heard of GDS
designatedforassignment - July 29, 2009
The thing thats funniest is you are very debate like in many of your responses
which is why despite the fact that we disagree often and I’m pretty sure I piss you off on occasion, you are one of my favorite posters here.
designatedforassignment - July 29, 2009
Say more
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Honestly I think exactly the opposite I think every school should be required to teach debate
Everything I ever needed to know in HS or college I learned from debate. Many of my best friends in life are debaters. If our society treated arguments like they are treated in debate, we would be far better off.
designatedforassignment - July 29, 2009
No it wouldn't.
HAH!
mikev - July 29, 2009
What are your warrents?
designatedforassignment - July 29, 2009
warrents?
we don’t need no stinking warrents
adragon - July 29, 2009
It was only a bench warrant
and it was cleared.
mikev - July 29, 2009
Fuck warrants
I want to see some clash, GO.
Orodawg - July 29, 2009
Everything you needed to know:
If you ask me our society does treat arguments like they are treated in debate, and that’s exactly why our society is so fucked up.
And by the way, “everything [you] need to know in HS or college” is not the same as everything you need to know in real life. High school and college are fucked-up bullshit, too.
iglew - July 29, 2009
+ a number too large to type
Gaijin_Suketto - July 29, 2009
Deep.
But, yeah.
67MARQUEZ - July 29, 2009
That is a mischaracterization of debate
You talk about the lack of choice, but really debate is all about choice, and its most profound lessons that it teaches you is how to make strategic choice. In a debate if you try to win every argument you will lose. What debate teaches you is “round vision”, to see what is important and to strategically target that. If you don’t make choices in what you argue against you lose focus and lose the round.
The point of debate isn’t to score points, it is to learn. In round, yes the point is to be persuasive. I am not sure why learning how to read your audience (the judge) and make compelling arguments to that audience is a bad idea. Additionally, I think you place too much emphasis on the round and undervalue the broader activity. This applies to your last two points as well. Just because I make an argument against something in round doesn’t mean that I dismiss it from influencing my out of world view, or enhancing my learning. Additionally, if I hear a good argument in a round I am highly likely to research it to both find defenses to it and perhaps if its a good argument adapt for my own personal use later.
Your opinion in debate is never chosen. The side of the argument is. For example, I strongly believe that marriage should be legal between consenting adults of all genders and sexual orientations. If I am the negative and I am forced to argue the opposition to that I have so many options that don’t involve me disagreeing with the basic sentiment. For example I can argue that the states should individually make that decision, Congress should pass a law, or the Supreme Court should decide a case that legalizes marriage equality depending on what actor the affirmative uses. Those are all important things to debate and don’t require me to argue something I find to be against my morality. Furthermore, there are in round arguments that can be made to punish a team that doesn’t give its opposition fair ground on which to argue.
Finally on Kritiques, a type of meta arguement, you often get people to issue an apology or change their mind on an issue.
There are some downsides that debate engenders that I would acknowledge. First, debate conditions you to deal with other debater rather than the uninitiated, which when engaging the uninitiated tends to make them upset. Most non-debaters like the ability to believe something without it being questioned and having no evidence for it, which is a mindset that debaters loath and aren’t well equipped to deal with. Secondly, debate creates an incentive to make large claims to see if they go uncontested and then collapse down to the heart of your argument which unlike the over-claim that was just made, you can defend.
The Socratic Method which debate essentially is has been the pinnacle of learning for the last 2400 years. It teaches us that only by questioning ourselves and our beliefs can we find truth. When I go out and canvass for political candidates and causes, I find that no one has even bothered to think through their own opinions or they would realize that you can’t “have no problem with gays” and yet think they should be denied basic human rights at the same time, which is just one of millions of contradictory positions that people hold that mess up this world.
designatedforassignment - July 29, 2009
I am suddenly in the mood for a rally pic.
67MARQUEZ - July 29, 2009
Rally Socrates!
iglew - July 29, 2009
Hey,
his story ended well didn’t it?
Argumentive SOB that he was.
alox - July 29, 2009
I remember learning about that guy in my sophomore year of high school.
Rated-R Superstar - July 29, 2009
He's the bane
of Western Civilization. Or the inspiration. Either way, some 2500 years later he’s still a pain in the ass to high school students everywhere.
alox - July 29, 2009
TL;DR
Yay! I win! <does victory dance>
iglew - July 29, 2009
TL;DR what is that?
designatedforassignment - July 29, 2009
it's not funny if I have to explain it.
Try urban dictionary.
iglew - July 29, 2009
That makes me sad
designatedforassignment - July 29, 2009
Dude, I'm just messing with you.
Of course I read it. I just didn’t feel a need to address anything point by point because I’m not into that whole debaters mentality.
You said your bit, I said mine. We each learned something.
To me, that’s a good result.
iglew - July 29, 2009
Hey, I've seen that scene.
That’s the one where Matt Damon plays poker, right? I saw about half the movie.
And by the way … hello? “best” Russian accent? Are you kidding? It’s a ridiculous caricature.
iglew - July 28, 2009
"Giff the mehn his mah-neeee"
Yeah, it was el terrible.
Joey C. - July 28, 2009
No way dude!
Teddy KGB was hardcore Russian mob, yo!
Malkovich is the man!
mrod - July 28, 2009
Well, I admit, I've never known anyone
in the KGB or the mob, so maybe they talk differently, but I’ve known dozens of Russians, and none of them sound like that.
iglew - July 29, 2009
In other news, the Angels tied the game.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Why must you say such things?
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
It is because, like you said a few threads ago, I speak the truth.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
That's just because you get sent to your room if you lie.
mikev - July 28, 2009
That’s why I need a laptop. Then, I would never leave my room. Okay, I’d need a fridge, but then I’d really never leave my room.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Great way to get the chicks.
mikev - July 28, 2009
What do you think school is for?
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Drugs and booze.
mikev - July 28, 2009
I had a 3.8 GPA in the first semester of last year and 4.0 GPA in the second semester of last year.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Why?
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I think it helps me with college or something.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Oh. Carry on then.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I plan to.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Well at least put some pants on.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Why?
mikev - July 28, 2009
It's cold out.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
It’s hot out here.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Well get the hell inside.
mikev - July 28, 2009
That’s what she said.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
there ya go.
mikev - July 28, 2009
Thanks.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
haha
good one!
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Yes!
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Which brings us back to
drugs and booze.
iglew - July 28, 2009
Doesn’t it always come back to that?
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
No.
For the truly stupid decisions…..you need women in your life.
alox - July 28, 2009
I do need a woman.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
No. WOMEN.
It’s plural. No wonder you only got a 3.8
mikev - July 28, 2009
I just want one.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
No you don't.
Admit it.
alox - July 28, 2009
I truly only want one.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
give it time
mikev - July 28, 2009
I really, really, really only want one.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Snap out of it.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
for now.
mikev - July 28, 2009
One at a time?
Hell no…if you can talk them into it.
alox - July 28, 2009
(booze)
mikev - July 28, 2009
don't go to a small college
you run through all the attractive ones in your freshman year.
1800 kids at my school
900 girls
450 girls that are physically attractive enough to date (50%)
90 girls that are also mentally attractive enough to date (20%)
18 the number of girls that find me physically/mentally attractive enough to date (20%)
Don’t let 18 be the total number of girls you can date at your college because you’ll make out with all of them before week two of your sophomore year and thats bad for the next 3 years.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Just go to Arizona State.
mikev - July 28, 2009
I went to Bosie St.
I would highly recommend it
adragon - July 28, 2009
BLUE FOOTBALL
mikev - July 28, 2009
ESPN always says, “Don’t adjust your television sets.”
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
As one who lived in Boise for 14 years:
Avoid that shit like the plague.
Joey C. - July 28, 2009
You're a lying mofo.
Your problem is easy to solve. You had 450 that qualified as attractive enough? You need further research to determine if you initial conclusions were flawed. That alone should take you well into your senior year.
alox - July 28, 2009
You don't think finding 1 out of 2 girls fits your fancy is enough?
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Hell no.
The best sex I’ve ever had was with women I truly couldn’t stand otherwise.
That and grudge sex.
alox - July 28, 2009
Whoa.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Yeah I was trying to put that into words too
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
winner.
mikev - July 28, 2009
Acceptable level of attractiveness is a fluctuating number that directly correlatse to the quantity of alcohol consumed in a given time frame.
shooting4life - July 29, 2009
Life lessons
RRS are you paying attention
adragon - July 29, 2009
You'll learn.
Of course I am actually afraid to discuss women around alox. He somehow knows me.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Lexi is the only one I need.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
I'm telling OAH.
mikev - July 28, 2009
Fine, but I think she hates me.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Why?
Let it out. She’s not here.
mikev - July 28, 2009
Eh, she just likes to tease me. It’s all good, though. I think it’s fun.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Dude.
Tease. That’s what they do.
Except that sometimes they don’t. I used to live for those times.
alox - July 28, 2009
+ some large unintellible number
mikev - July 28, 2009
Thats actually usually a good sign
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
That’s interesting.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
News flash, dude.
OAH teases everyone.
Either that or she’s completely oblivious, and I don’t believe that.
iglew - July 28, 2009
True.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
And I love her for it Iglew.
And I think you do too!
alox - July 28, 2009
Embrace the tease!
iglew - July 28, 2009
That's not quite what I had in mind when I came up with that phrase.
pam5981 - July 28, 2009
I'm a tease, too, Pam.
iglew - July 28, 2009
I know.
pam5981 - July 28, 2009
It still works.
mikev - July 28, 2009
Only because....
I’ve done the same damn things. Except for the ex part. And I’m afraid. So very afraid.
alox - July 28, 2009
Don't let them bully you, R.
I also want only one. And I agree with you about smoking and drinking, too.
iglew - July 28, 2009
Word.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
They do make the
whole life experience a helluva lot more interesting. Vexing, but interesting.
alox - July 28, 2009
The feeling is mutual.
pam5981 - July 28, 2009
Women make your life more interestin gtoo?
mikev - July 28, 2009
Don't forget vexing.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Well,....
from your point of view….it would be more interesting for me if I could actually win on occasion.
But you gals have a way of making losing so much more….interesting?
alox - July 28, 2009
awesome
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
So true
hence my new sig line.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
LOL
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
LOL x2
baseballgirl - July 28, 2009
Ouch, rough start.
mikev - July 28, 2009
And that's out of 10, right?
Nico - July 28, 2009
I was disappointed that I couldn’t get that “A” in CP U.S. history in the first semester, but I grabbed it in the second semester.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Oh, dude, I could have helped.
Abe’s last name is spelled Lincoln.
Lot of people miss that.
mikev - July 28, 2009
Bogus
It’s been a while since I’ve seen that film referenced.
el generico - July 29, 2009
Way to rally back.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
I'll say one thing
In a dismal season, I have managed to catch the good stuff in the team’s few memorable games.
bear88 - July 28, 2009
Two questions:
1) Anywhere to hear radio highlights online?
2) What was the other 9th inning comeback win?
RLangford - July 28, 2009
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Oh, I think it was against the Angels on the second game of the year.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
3rd game of the year -- and then there wasn't a 4th.
Nico - July 28, 2009
Sadly.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Of course,
I remember it all. I still know the finish.
RLangford - July 28, 2009
I thought we were going to win the division after that game. I was so happy. I was also so very wrong.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
just a tad
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
not over, not math magically eliminated
Future Ed - July 28, 2009
Is that like magically delicious?
adragon - July 29, 2009
I think
That was the only time the A’s ever teased us at the beginning of something, as opposed to the end.
Helloooo 1st - July 28, 2009
It was fun while it lasted.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
TWSS
mikev - July 28, 2009
Sigh.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
also WSS
before lighting a cigarette
mikev - July 28, 2009
I don’t like girls that smoke or drink.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
You got that right
although if they are hot enough you can bend the rules
adragon - July 28, 2009
For the long-term, I couldn’t bend the rules.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
short term only
the keepers are well…keepers
adragon - July 28, 2009
LOL.
pam5981 - July 28, 2009
Hey, what’s so funny?
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
girls your age shouldn't be able to smoke or drink anyway
cuppingmaster - July 28, 2009
I know, but some of them do.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
boo
by the time you’re in college, you’ll have quite the AN-themed education in dating the fairer sex
cuppingmaster - July 28, 2009
I will probably still fail.
(I think I said this elsewhere.)
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Those ones you can avoid.
mikev - July 28, 2009
Did you?
Me thinks not.
alox - July 28, 2009
You got me there.
mikev - July 28, 2009
This is why....
I like you.
alox - July 28, 2009
we should get together and go bowling
mikev - July 28, 2009
Excellent idea.
alox - July 28, 2009
May I go?
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
I guess.
mikev - July 28, 2009
IF you get let out of the house.
mikev - July 28, 2009
I can if there’s daylight.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
I get it. You're a werewolf.
Flashfire - July 28, 2009
The jig is up.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
So have you sniffed Leopold's butt?
Flashfire - July 28, 2009
No, but should I?
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Probably not
No telling where it’s been.
Flashfire - July 28, 2009
Good, I did not want to.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
but you can sniff mikev's
adragon - July 29, 2009
That’s not a good idea.
Rated-R Superstar - July 29, 2009
Cool.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Oh, I wasn't laughing at you.
I was laughing at me.
pam5981 - July 28, 2009
Oh, sure.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Seriously.
I was just thinking about the crap I was doing at 17.
pam5981 - July 28, 2009
Yikes.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
If your 18 its a pretty good policy
I still don’t date smokers.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Wait what?
We need to chat.
mikev - July 28, 2009
maybe its because I wouldn't ever let someone smoke in my house
but I never got this cig after sex meme.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
Thank you Nick Green.
I was ready to give up on the game, but I was watching with skigurl and lynnzgal and they wouldn’t let me! Good job ladies.
Awesome game.
pam5981 - July 28, 2009
Why couldn't I have watched this game instead of yesterday's.....
This is the type of game that is fun to watch. (Normally, I don’t mind pitching & defense, but with the A’s, I’d rather see offense right now.)
pookeyguru - July 28, 2009
Yay! Win(z)!
iglew - July 28, 2009
I am a little surprised that you knew the girls from The Secret Life of the American Teenager.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
I was shocked.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Iglew is a smart man.
Did that picture help, though? I had to leave, sadly.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
I did not know Lady Gaga, though
iglew - July 28, 2009
You're not missing much.
Though OaktownPower vehemently disagrees with me.
pam5981 - July 28, 2009
Hahaha I saw her in concert in 08 before she blew up
and I have a friend who served her at a clothing boutique and swears shes really a man.
designatedforassignment - July 28, 2009
It did help, actually.
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
The one in the middle, for your information, is just a month older than I am. The other two are legal, though.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
comforting
67MARQUEZ - July 28, 2009
Yeah, that’s why I told you.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
You've mentioned both shows, and someone else
guessed Degrassi and was wrong.
(Besides, it was right there in the image URL.)
iglew - July 28, 2009
Genius.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
I think the Redsox just joined the Cabrera/Wuertz Sweepstakes.
Step right up, folks.
The Dogfather - July 28, 2009
Don't be shy....
alox - July 28, 2009
That’s what she said.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
You won't believe your eyes....
Before your time I think. Your generation is truly lacking in the genre of music.
alox - July 28, 2009
I listen to old school hip hop mostly.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Is there such a thing already?
alox - July 28, 2009
I guess it is if you count KRS-One, Rakim and Big Daddy Kane.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
Well then....
I don’t. I thought they were still current. I’m still waiting for rap to go the way of disco.
alox - July 28, 2009
Rap has outlasted virtually every other genre of music.
Most music trends seem to only last 5-10 years at most. Rap has been going strong for at least 15 years.
dtownmbrown - July 29, 2009
Erm...
There’s kind of that whole “rock and roll” genre that’s been around for 50 years…
mikev - July 29, 2009
lol so true.
Jazz also says hi!
designatedforassignment - July 29, 2009
country here
>waves at dtownmbrown<
adragon - July 29, 2009
Yeah though we all wish that one would go away :-P
designatedforassignment - July 29, 2009
I meant trends.. I worded it as genre, but I didn't mean it like that. My bad.
Jazz, Blues, Rock n Roll are not trends.
Although, within RnR many styles have fluctuated, starting with blues, turning into rockabilly which spawned country, then “rock and roll”, classic rock, heavy metal, you get the point.
I was referring more to the disco trend, the new wave trend, the pop punk trend, the grunge trend, the emo trend, etc…
Hip Hop came, and I’m sure many thought it would fade away much like disco did, or grunge did, but it has stuck around for a long time.
dtownmbrown - July 29, 2009
Am I the only one here who differentiates between
“hip hop” and “rap”? I’m not an expert by any means, but to me they’re different in a very specific way that makes me like one and dislike the other.
iglew - July 29, 2009
Hip hop was what they used to call it, so it’s referred to as “old school hip hop” instead “old school rap” because that’s what it was.
Rated-R Superstar - July 29, 2009
I don't know how they use the terms now,
but back in my day, “rap” indicated that the focus is on the voice and the lyrics, and the other stuff is just light accompaniment to keep the beat. “Hip hop”, on the other hand, is all about the noize, and the vocal is just a bit of flavor on top.
It’s all right there in the names. Rap = talk = vocal. Hip hop = dance = loud beat.
As a general rule, my favorite musical styles are those that emphasize the beauty of the human voice. (That’s also why I like country better than rock or jazz.)
iglew - July 29, 2009
That goes along with the way I have always percieved it.
Hip Hop has always seemed like it started out as a broader art form, focused around dance, beats, and outside influences, then vocalists rapped to hip hop music, then Rap became something more about the rhymes and the words.
Shit if I know, though, I don’t really listen to it a whole lot. Blues is my music.
dtownmbrown - July 29, 2009
that's not old enough to be considered old school
old school is like Warren G, ODB, et al
cuppingmaster - July 28, 2009
Even mid-’90s hip hop (Biggie, early Nas, early Tupac and early Jay-Z) is considered “old school” by some.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
i used to listen
now i’m hooked on NPR and “Wait wait”
cuppingmaster - July 28, 2009
awesome
pam5981 - July 28, 2009
ugh
I hate the perception that such things are old school….
I wore a public enemy tee shirt to work and this young kid said, “Flavor Flav, isn’t that the guy with a show on VH1?”
le sigh
le mFing sigh.
Athletics fan and runner - July 29, 2009
Here were mine
NWA, Eazy-E & 2 Live Crew
I can’t believe I used to listen to that crap, (I was 14 at the time)
adragon - July 29, 2009
boo
by the time you’re in college, you’ll have quite the AN-themed education in dating the fairer sex
cuppingmaster - July 28, 2009
I will probably still fail.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
No doubt.
I certainly hope so. It would truly suck otherwise.
alox - July 28, 2009
grow your hair long without washing it
learn how to play guitar poorly, stop shaving, and wear vintage/ironic t-shirts. guaranteed to get laid in the first month.
actually, all you really need is the guitar…
cuppingmaster - July 28, 2009
The best part about women
is you can keep trying. There’s a LOT of em.
mikev - July 28, 2009
And to top it off....
one is bound to say “yes” sooner or later. That’s what I love about them.
alox - July 28, 2009
better living through chemistry, I always say.
mikev - July 28, 2009
And the Dow eventually
rises. Always. If not, they make a pill.
alox - July 28, 2009
If not
There are buildings in New York to jump off of.
Many buildings.
Orodawg - July 28, 2009
Unfortunately...
I don’t have that kind of money.
alox - July 28, 2009
Is THAT your nickname for it?
“The Dow?” Who are you dating, Anne Coulter?
The Dogfather - July 29, 2009
Like I said,
Thank you Nick Green.
pam5981 - July 28, 2009
This had to come up in the game threads....
but Everidge? In Fenway? How could he be nicknamed anything other than “Tommy Knocker”?
alox - July 28, 2009
BTW...the Dogs and Cats living together line was awesome
baseballgirl - July 28, 2009
:-D
Flashfire - July 28, 2009
Anyone here in MN?
Just found I’ll be in Minneapolis for work in time to see the A’s play in early sept. For once a cool work trip! Woo hoo.
AN midwest day?
cuppingmaster - July 28, 2009
Rewatching the 9th inning rally again.
A couple of things I noticed:
Everidge actually got some props from Pedroia at 2nd base after his blast that almost went out. Very cool…but I still don’t like that little terd.
The other thing-The Sox absolutely went to sleep on defense and Papeldong was totally spooked on the mound, especially after Everidge hit his blast. When Raj got the tying run in JP went as pale as the first time he got shut down by a pretty looking girl.
And I f****ng love it!
mrod - July 28, 2009
325+ comments and not a single flamewar?
What the hell is wrong with you people?
Flashfire - July 28, 2009
Great recap.
Really. So nice, I read it twice.
Johnny U - July 28, 2009
Great recap...
…but what in the WORLD happened to the thread! It’s chaos in here!
baseballgirl - July 28, 2009
It’s probably my fault.
Rated-R Superstar - July 28, 2009
I blame the kid
adragon - July 29, 2009
Sigh.
Rated-R Superstar - July 29, 2009
Damn right.
mikev - July 28, 2009
GREEN MONSTER.
I don’t know, maybe someone already thought of this (I haven’t had chance to read all the comments), but if I was from Beantown, that’s what I would call Nick Green: THE GREEN MONSTER. Perhaps it’s to become his new “Nick” name?
(SFX: Jack Nicholson in “Easy Rider” making that nick-nick-nick-nick-nick sound.)
Johnny U - July 28, 2009
Salt Lake's Sean O'Sullivan no-hit the River Cats tonight
All he allowed was a walk to Cliff Pennington leading off the seventh.
Flashfire - July 28, 2009
Then we need to call up Cliff.
He’s screwing up the Cat’s.
alox - July 29, 2009
That’s depressing.
Rated-R Superstar - July 29, 2009
Better it happens to Sacramento than Oakland
Though if I didn’t have the game thread tonight I probably would have been there.
Flashfire - July 29, 2009
Why didn’t Buck play?
Rated-R Superstar - July 29, 2009
they hate him
mikev - July 29, 2009
Chris Carter needs to get called up to Triple-A.
Rated-R Superstar - July 29, 2009
Boston just upgraded their offer for Halladay.
Supposedly their offer is:
Buchholz
one of Masterson, Bowden, Lars Anderson
lower prospect
mikev - July 29, 2009
I don’t think Halladay is getting dealt.
Rated-R Superstar - July 29, 2009
That's a really hard deal to refuse.
mikev - July 29, 2009
Well, I think they’ll refuse it.
Rated-R Superstar - July 29, 2009
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