Athletics Nation

A's season series win + Rays season series loss

Leopold Bloom wins double as the last Ray of hope was eaten alive by our baseball zombies!

oaklandSMASH - July 12, 2009 reply

Ack! Why no edit button?

Also,

Fulfilling a request from a couple days ago.

ZacharyCF - July 12, 2009 reply

sweet, now print 'em!

I’ll buy two!

if one did not know and appreciate mr. king......

Rulebook

I missed the game thread, so maybe someone mentioned this.

The rulebook currently online at the MLB website says two bases are awarded when the catches fields the ball with his mask, just like you said originally.

So if they did amend the rules, they didn’t bother to update it on the website.

Huh. It was mentioned by Ken/Ray on the "Behind the plate" segment,

that the rule had recently been changed to one base. It was also noted as rule 7.05 (j) on the telecast, whereas it is 7.05 (d) in my 2004 Rulebook.

Well, this is weird.

Looking at the PDF online, I see that 7.05(d) says two bases, AND 7.05(j) says one base. As far as I can tell the two are in direct contradiction.

Maybe (j) was intended to replace (d) but they forgot to put lines through it. Come to think of it, paragraph (d) does look like it stops in the middle of a sentence.

Conclusion: They did change the rule, but whoever updated the copy of the rulebook to go online did a crappy editing job.

It was probably Dana Eveland -- he's responsible for most problems in the world.

I thought that was tRA*

I saw Gene Mauch (the little general) invoke this in the early 80s. I had never before heard it.

He had to show the ump the rule b/c it’s so rarely invoked. Mauch wasn’t a great manager, but he knew the rules like the back of his hand.

JJ Martin - July 12, 2009 reply

ve'ja du-

when you get the funny feeling something didn’t just happen again

OmahaHi - July 12, 2009 reply

Yay, baseball!

ElQuesoCapitan - July 12, 2009 reply

Yay series wins!!!

much better ending heading into the break than I was expecting after Friday’s game.

Totally

worldblee - July 12, 2009 reply

Apparently, if the A's play hard with good fundamentals

They’re not nearly as bad as we thought.

worldblee - July 12, 2009 reply

Thx

I checked there, but it says 2008 HR Derby. Is that just until the game resumes?

Yeah, I'd think so.

gracias.

I see Chris Carter is due up 4th when the game resumes.

the game is set to start at 5.30 local time. (about 20 minutes) fyi.

Thx!!!

Still watching the Hamilton show from last year’s HR Derby on ESPN2.

lol yeah me too. I new he was going to hit that many homers and it was still awesome to watch.

Former A Brooks Conrad is a double shy of the cycle

shocker

He plays 3rd base, too!

We let him become a free agent back in 2008, and he signed with Atlanta.

Small sample size and all, right now.

Of course the A’s let him walk….Chavez said he “never felt better” last Fall.

One won lost won - July 12, 2009 reply

No offense to Brooks, nice guy and all, but

he’s just having a good day.

as opposed to the REM bad day

of all the people we've let walk...

you’re going to worry about some backup who had a little extra Wheaties this morning?

no worries

faux excitement on my part…tongue in cheek doesn’t play well on the Internet.

I agree, he’ll be back to earth like Eric Byrnes, after Byrnes hit for the cycle… what was Byrnes?? 2-for-62 after that??

One won lost won - July 12, 2009 reply

Once again

I turn off the (boring) game in the 4th, to take a walk in the lovely sunshine, and return to find the A’s have scored 7 AND won the game! Maybe I should have more faith? Or I’m crazy?
That’s great and all, but next time, the team should tell me when they’re gonna do that :)

streetfan - July 12, 2009 reply

Likewise...

was listening to the game in the car yesterday and with the score 2-0 in the 5th, I go to have a cup of coffee and read. I come back to the car about 2 hours later and not only is the game still on, but the A’s have taken a 7-2 lead.

It’s not us right? Please someone tell me its not us! ;)

Huh. Two wins in a row.

pam5981 - July 12, 2009 reply

Yes, and we beat both Garza and Shields in Tampa. Of course, the break naturally follows.

Yes. God forbid we should gain any actual momentum.

pam5981 - July 12, 2009 reply

To do what exactly? Even if we got "momentum" we're 12 games out.

I went to Friday and Saturday’s Angles/Yankees games. Their offense looked mighty fine (or the Yankees pitching is just terrible), and their top four starters are no longer unable to pitch, they aren’t going to be collapsing that much. I mean I get that winning is more fun. I like it too, but Id rather have a baller top 5 draft pick than win a bunch of meaningless games, but hey Im that guy so take it for what its worth.

to do what? win? play some good baseball?

I’d settle for that

For shits and giggles.

pam5981 - July 12, 2009 reply

a completely acceptable answer.

Yes?

Oh, sorry, I saw “giggles” and thought someone was trying to get my attention….

Oooooh, squirrel…..

;)

gigglingone - July 12, 2009 reply

Don't knock pre-All-Star-break momentum.

In 2001, the A’s had a mediocre first half, two games under .500 going into Arizona for the last series before the break. A’s then swept the Diamondbacks with three awesome pitching performances: a complete game shutout by Mulder (3-0), another complete game by Hudson (5-1), and then a 2-1 win by Zito (not a CG … wimp!).

After the break, the A’s kept that momentum and went 58-17 for the second half, finishing the season with 102 wins.

Admittedly, this year’s start has been so bad that even with a 58-17 second half we could still miss the playoffs. But it sure would be a lot more fun.

oh that was a year.... in baseball, in career, in my "social" life

Yeah but

all that winning tired out the A’s, and led to a poor playoff performance.

{runs}

67MARQUEZ - July 12, 2009 reply

Aw come back 67, we're not going to hurt you.

clears chamber.

Hmmmm, ***********

{ Runs }...Wait......67 Marquez you been drinking Tecate Lite agaiN

against a good team on the road

Which means they will start the 2nd half by losing 5 in a row…at home ! ;)

For anyone interesting Chris Carter will be hitting fourth for the USA team in the futures game.

It is resuming in 20 min with Carter due up 4rth.

I think they’ve only played a half-inning, no?

yup.

correct

World up 2-0 through half an inning.

Go World!

only for those who are interesting?

whooops...if your not an interesting person you better not read my comments....

This guy is tuning in.

like a three hour rain delay. they are only playing 7 innings when it starts up again.

Any reason in particular you are attributing this win to Geren?

Are we reading the same article?

I just don't get Geren benches Sweeney -> comebacks meme

though rereading it a second time makes it seem less like that. Ive been out of town so I haven’t been paying that much attention so maybe it is noticeable.

It makes just as much sense as

blaming 49 first-half losses on Geren.

Opinions differ on that point. But if you buy into the one, the other logically follows.

As much as I don't think that Geren is a particularly good manager

It’s also not his fault he’s been given a crappy team that’s playing poorly.

bobnothing - July 12, 2009 reply

My personal beliefs are along these lines

he certainly hasn’t helped but Dick Williams/ Billy Martin/ Tony LaRussa wouldn’t have turned these fools into division contenders.

Giambi has only 2 more hits (50) than walks (48) at this point.

Thome and A-rod have similar walk-to-hits ratios, but obviously they have much better OBPs and AVGs.

This might have been discussed in the game thread, but...

Glen “7 Northern California Emmys” Kuiper was talking about OCab and how he hasn’t walked in 22 straight games, but that “it doesn’t matter because he’s hitting .360.” I started wondering, hmm, is he actually saying that if you hit for a high average you don’t need to walk as much to have a decent OBP?

Probably not. I dislike Glen Kuiper. I wish we had his brother.

Great win, though.

I think he meant that if you’re going to hit .360, you don’t need to walk.

No, I know… I was just wondering if he was trying to display some actual statistical thinking or if it was just another clever way for a mainstream idiot to decry walking.

It isn't

if you hit .320 and have an isolated walk rate of .030, you have a .350 OBP which is pretty good. Now if you have a .240 batting average and you have the same .030 isolated walk rate, your .270 OBP sucks a lot. The problem with trying to hit .320 and having a low isolated walk rate is that if your BAPIP drops due to luck your value to your team plummets. This is what I like to call Howie Kendrick circa 2009, a guy who isn’t hitting .320 this year which exposes the fact that he never walks.

I get his point but it's not sustainable

Cabrera isn’t a .360 hitter. If his OBP was propped up by, say, 0.75 because he walked a lot, he could bat .275 and still get on base at a .350 clip. If he was hitting .350 for a while and keeping his walk rate up, guess what? He’s getting on base at a .425 clip.

By not walking, yeah, the .360 AVG is nice over his hot streak but his OBP is about the same. When he cools off and is hitting .275 again and still not walking, well…

Flashfire - July 12, 2009 reply

Good explanation but the lack of walks are not why Cabrera sucks this year.

Granted he is on pace for his lowest walk rate this decade but his real problem is that instead of being worth 14 runs above average in the field hes now costing the team 6 runs… that equals a two win swing. In the last 7 years Cabrera has only had 2 where he was above league average (and one of those was by less than a full run), and his OBP has always been mediocre. Its the fielding that really hurts.

I like Glen Kuiper a lot..

Who cares if he doesn’t have to the same walk, walk, HR mindset that most A’s fans have..? I’d personally rather have a guy hit .360 and never walk than a guy who hits .220 but has a .360 OBP. He’s not obnoxious and doesn’t have a ridiculous voice like other announcers shoved down our throats on ESPN, and gaassspp… across the bay. I’m assuming this won’t be agreed upon but oh well.. BTW, dibs are great.

son of wes - July 12, 2009 via mobile reply

He’s not obnoxious and doesn’t have a ridiculous voice like other announcers shoved down our throats on ESPN, and gaassspp… across the bay.

I like Dave O’Brien and Dan Shulman.

I’m meaning more like our local tv and ESPN guys.. Miller/Superstar knowitall 2Bman, Kruk/Kuip, Philips, ect.. I might be in the minority here, but I can’t even stomach a Giants game cuz I want to literally throw a ball at Mike Krukows head.

son of wes - July 12, 2009 via mobile reply

Man, I totally disagree. I’m not a huge fan of Krukow, to be fair, but I think Duane is 10 times the announcer that his brother will ever… great low voice, calm, knows the game, whereas Glen’s idea of calling a great catch in the outfield is to say “Sweeney Sweeney Sweeney… Sweeney!” and he’s constantly mis-calling plays, getting the count wrong, etc. I also think Jon Miller and Dave Fleming are outstanding.

None could hold a candle to Bill King, though. RIP. And I loves me some Korach and Foss. But I happen to believe that both the A’s and Giants have been blessed with solid announcers, Glen K and Greg Papa (and – shudder – Dick Stockton) notwithstanding.

But I happen to believe that both the A’s and Giants have been blessed with solid announcers, Glen K and Greg Papa (and – shudder – Dick Stockton) notwithstanding.

I don’t like Dick Stockton announcing MLB games and he’s decent for NBA games, but he’s a pretty damn good NFL announcer.

I just think he has absolutely zero personality. None. Which is the norm for national tv broadcasts for some reason. He’s not a terrible announcer, there’s just no there there.

I'd agree if he maintained a higher OBP whether it was just hits or a combination of hits and walks

See: Ichiro. That’s not the case with Cabrera, though.

Flashfire - July 12, 2009 reply

Perfect example.

Ichiro hardly ever walks, but his OBP is still .393, thanks to his .362 batting average. I’d be happy to have that on our team.

Kuiper’s comment would make sense if OCab were actually hitting .360, but he’s not. On the season he’s hitting .255, and the only way you come up with .360 is by cherry picking.

Even that is hard. OCab’s average in those last 22 games is .319. I don’t know how Kuiper gets to .360. Even with the recent hot streak, if you calculate Cabrera’s average in the last X games, there’s no value of X greater than 2 where the average reaches .360.

Agreed

Though the flipside of the Ichiro example is "If he hits .360 why doesn’t he walk more and have an OBP well over .400?

He actually did when he played in Japan, averaging a .353 BA, .421 OBP, but since coming to America he’s got a .332 BA and a .378 OBP. Still very good, of course.

Some people will complain that he goes for the hits to the point of denying himself walks he’d otherwise get. Sure, there’s something to that, but his best ability on offense is putting the ball in play and running.

Either way, he gets on base a lot and that’s what’s important.

Flashfire - July 12, 2009 reply

The difference between the quality of American and Japanese pitching

could be the difference, no?

Bottom line is that no one is perfect. If Ichiro’s strength, getting hits, allows him to do it to the tune of a .332 BA, and his weakness, not walking much, leaves his OBP at .378, and he can steal mucho bases, rarely getting caught, and he can play GG RF…I’ll take it.

no doubt....I'd love to have Ichiro on the A's!

He's the anti-Cust in every way.

Rarely walks, rarely homers, rarely strikes out, and plays excellent defense in RF!

A .378 OBP that has a .322 average in it

is a lot better than a .378 OBP that has a .278 average in it.

jeepers - July 12, 2009 reply

Of course this is true

Of course, the number of players who can post a .322 average is smaller than the number of players who can post a .278 average (and the A’s have no one in the former category).

nevermoor - July 13, 2009 reply

Cant disagree more

Glen in an effort to fill space says at least one foot in mouth gaff every game. He is completely out of his league. His personality is as stale as cardboard and his jovial laid back everyman does not work well with Fosse IMO. He’s still better than say, Rex Hudler or Joe Morgan.

kbtoyz - July 13, 2009 reply

After visiting the link, click on the icon on the pitcher’s mound and click on the right arrow once.

that was cool RRST!

Torii Hunter?

GET OUT OF THIS BLOG.

muffinpryde - July 12, 2009 reply

I like it here, though.

Oh, well then, carry on.

Thanks.

Carter is up in the Futures Game on ESPN2 now

ugh. feliz getting out carter. that upsets me.

I know it doesn’t mean anything really, but that blows.

yeah, and he made quick work of him that AB

yup. although i guess its good he actually made contact. No one else even came close to touching him.

Wallace's AB was pretty awesome tho.

travdog6 - July 12, 2009 reply

yeah thats true Wallace put up a fight. I forgot about that.

Good ab, and nice working the walk. now if only they would give him up for holliday…

I'm still ready to irrationaly embrace Chris Carter.

In fact, I just did.

travdog6 - July 12, 2009 reply

I'm with you there.

I'll join the irrational embracing of Carter.

I prefer to rationally embrace him... have you seen his stats? irrationality isn't needed!

True, true.

Yeah, but you prefer doing EVERYTHING rationally.

keep it clean

mikeA - July 12, 2009 reply

QOTM and it made me think of this xkcd cartoon

that's hilarious

iglew - July 13, 2009 reply

me too

I saw him at ST and was impressed. Of course I only saw a few ABs over 3 games…

I just saw the one AB here and I'm on board. lol

Me too.

The 39 hr’s last year really help too.

travdog6 - July 12, 2009 reply

Yeah 39 hrs isn't too bad...

yep yep

A Stronger Line-up

Once you remove Cust and Giambi from the starting line-up, then you’ve got a team in which each player has hit close to .240 or better since the end of April (May, June, into July) - and that includes Ellis and Powell.

Something happened with Geren, though we’ll probably never know what it was. Maybe he got tired of reading about how lifeless the team was, how lifeless HE was … or maybe Beane read him the riot act, or gave him the freedom to bench anyone he wanted.

I was delighted to see Cust sitting, and I was delighted to see Giambi sitting. I keep thinking about those two times Cust bunted for a base hit, and then Giambi said, “I would NEVER do that…” and I’m not sure, but I think Cust stopped bunting at that point. Sorry, getting on base is more important than the size of your balls. That was a terrible comment from Giambi, and it sent the wrong message.

richwol1 - July 12, 2009 reply

I agree with you about Giambi's remark

I thought it odd coming from a veteran who supposedly was someone to look up to.

Nobody expects Cust to make bunts a major part of his game. But his willingness to shake up the “shift” defenders a little bit was something positive.

Giambi’s not hitting well enough to turn up his nose at anything his teammates do to try to get something done offensively.

Carlos Peña would do it and only leads the league in HRs

and is 239 times the player Giambi is these days. Glad you’d never do something like that, Mr. .195 hitter. Can we get a 1Bman who will do what it takes to help the team?

ESPN put the accent in his name over the “E” instead of the “N” and I had a feeling that it was wrong.

So how would that be pronounced?

"carlos"

mikev - July 12, 2009 reply

Hey, now.

The name “Carlos” doesn’t have an “E” or an “N” in it, does it?

ÉSPN

JediLeroy - July 12, 2009 reply

ESPÑ

iglew - July 13, 2009 reply

I don't know about that....

my balls are pretty important to me…. :)

Yours are bigger

Kind of a “sunk cost” with Jason, pardon the expression.

QOTM!!!!

I snorted water up my nose thanks to this.

from golf balls to raisins.

Oh my! That was a good one Nico!

Raymond St. Martin (Saint) - July 13, 2009 reply

Strange remark by Giambi

Cuz i just happened to see him attempt a bunt last season against the A’s when Geren put the shift on him.

Cheezombie - July 12, 2009 reply

Maybe He Read My Piece From Last Week?

well I'll be darned.... we pulled it out.

That's What They Said?

they yelled pull it out, pull it out!!!!

so the A’s did. And then said, like Billy Idol…. with a rebel yell, we cried more more more.

They just showed A’s highlights on ESPN.

well, I guess that means it really happened...

and I saw it upon coming back a few mins ago.. it was the long version

on mlb tv where they recap the series too. felt un-real to see all that A’s ocverage.

mlbN

hell froze over?

I mean, what else could happen for ESPN to show A’s highlights….

gigglingone - July 12, 2009 reply

The rivals to the Red Sox/Yankees lost a game against the lowly A's.

Thereby putting themselves further behind the terrible twosome and making it newsworthy. There’s your link.

Baseball Highlights

If we weren’t playing a team in the Almighty AL East, we’d be waiting for 30 seconds… if that… at about quarter to five (PDT).

muscatel - July 12, 2009 reply

When Anderson threw a CGSO against the Red Sux in Fenway

it got almost zero coverage. It was all NOMAAAHHH.

The only reason this is getting coverage is because ESPN LOVES to point out the Rays’ flaws (because they pwned the Yanks and Sux last year) while acting like the Yankees and Red Sox don’t have any. It’s a way to fluff on the Yanks/Sux.

It’s about that time to dish out the mid-season awards.

Here are mine:

AL Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland, Tigers
NL Manager of the Year: Bruce Bochy, Giants

AL Rookie of the Year: Andrew Bailey, RP, Athletics
NL Rookie of the Year: Colby Rasmus, OF, Cardinals

AL Cy Young: Zack Greinke, SP, Royals
NL Cy Young: Dan Haren, SP, Diamondbacks

AL MVP: Torii Hunter, OF, Angels
NL MVP: Albert Pujols, 1B, Cardinals

I guess that people will be irate about Hunter, but here’s the thing. It has to be a Red Sock, Yankee, Tiger or an Angel because those are the playoff teams unless a player’s stats just blow you out of the water. For the Tigers, it comes down to Cabrera and Inge. For both the Red Sox and the Yankees, it’s a lot of people. For the Angels, Torii Hunter is far and away their best offensive player. I had to pick him at the end of the day.

Now, if the Twins make the playoffs, it’ll probably be either Mauer or Morneau, but right now, they’re in third place in their own division. I just had to go with Hunter.

I went with Haren over Lincecum by an extremely narrow margin and decided on Greinke over Halladay by also another pretty slim margin.

Mid-season awards are pretty pointless, but still, I think they’re fun to talk about.

Good choices there...

Although I’d go with Lincecum by a small margin and Halladay by a small margin. Pujols is having an unreal year and he could be a triple crown winner……and when was the last time that happened?

The fact that a Cy Young winner wouldn't be impacted by the standings

but an MVP would just reinforces how dumb I think the awards are. Can’t we just have “best pitcher” and “best position player” and then give gold gloves, of course, to the best hitters?

Hey, “best pitcher” and “best position player” just aren’t as catchy as the “Cy Young” and “MVP” titles are, right?

How are the teeth doing for potential Cy Young winners?

An impacted tooth might put you on the disabled list. The standings may affect the choice of winner.

One won lost won - July 12, 2009 reply

This is awesome!

I love that Geren finally grew a pair! I saw on the MLB A’s site that Geren benched Sweeney for not running out a pop up! Maybe that will wake this team up a bit. I’m feeling optimistic about the second half. Anybody else? Also, did anybody else catch the Cheryl Crowe concert on MLBTV last night and the amazing fireworks show after? She was amazing and so was Elvis Costello.

Go A’s!

A'sfansince1970 - July 12, 2009 reply

Chris Carter didn't look so hot in the futures game.

but its okay. i bet he was just nervous.

I enjoy those public forms of affection.

67MARQUEZ - July 12, 2009 reply

Who's the mime on the right?

ms marsel marsu