Final Score: Mariners 8, A's 7 (15)
I don't even know what to say. The A's couldn't hold a one-run lead in the 9th (4-3, Springer) and then couldn't hold a three-run lead in the 13th (7-4, Gio Gonzalez). Then in the 15th, Dana Eveland comes in and gives up a hit, throws a bunt away, and gives up a high, shallow fly ball - with the outfield in, mind you - that Rajai Davis somehow can't get to.
You know what? If you aren't a fan of either team, this seems like a great game with all its twists and turns. As an A's fan, I can't really write anything right now that won't sound bitter or cynical, so I'll just let you guys talk.
0 recs | 502 comments
Oh well
I’m not really into baseball.
67MARQUEZ - May 3, 2009
Baseball?
I hate the game. Nothing but pantywaists and homos watch that.
Leopold Bloom - May 3, 2009
The Fangraph is just horrible.
Highlights:
Gio actually had a positive WPA, at +.116.
Springer: -.291.
Eveland…ouch. -.357.
Landon Powell: +.305.
Matt Holliday: -.254.
danmerqury - May 3, 2009
the unavailability of Ziegler
arguably prevent a sweep of the Mariners, or at least the potential for a sweep
yawedout21 - May 3, 2009
The entire point...
…of having Davis in the game (and on the roster, for that matter) is that he’s a better defender than Cust. When he starts failing at that, I don’t see the point.
Good thing Cust wasn’t available to bat for 6 innings.
rageon - May 3, 2009
yep, time to let Davis go
Keze - May 3, 2009
his value is supposed to be defense, speed and bunting...
Keze - May 3, 2009
it's not like this is Davis's only fielding mistake
The guy’s been terrible out there this year. Gets horrible reads and jumps on the ball. Waste of a roster spot.
Benjamin Light - May 3, 2009
earlier he got on base and scored
this is on the pitching staff
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
and to be fair, they're overused
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
yep
and this game was kinda the tip of that iceberg…It was bound to happen though, especially when your closer hasnt been available for five or six days
yawedout21 - May 3, 2009
yes, but really he isn't very useful to this team
we have plenty of good outfielders, not enough pitching
Keze - May 3, 2009
Holliday
well I tend to agree with the anti-Geren stuff that was posted throughout the game, but if Holliday was even half the player that Geren had every right to expect he would be, we wouldn’t have gone extra innings, let alone 15! I hate Holliday.
sacto - May 3, 2009
Holliday makes it worse....
with his I-don’t-give-a-damn body language. A five-week slump is one thing, but he acts like he doesn’t want to be here (and he well might not) and doesn’t care who knows it.
coffee roaster - May 3, 2009
Holliday
I agree totally. Holliday is acting like a punk ass. Not swinging at good pitches on really good counts.
He reminds me of Manny Ramirez toward the end of his career in Boston.
He doesn’t want to be here in the slightest bit.
Dump him now Beane.
Before it’s too late…
slkierley - May 3, 2009
I of course listened to the very end
but I had to leave the game thread for safety’s sake
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
I came back from rehearsal to a very unhappy result
I hate losing to Seattle every series.
worldblee - May 3, 2009
Rehearsal
Maybe our players thought this was a rehearsal, too.
skigurl - May 3, 2009
i clicked off early...just came back. as I suspected.
ak_A - May 3, 2009
You gotta wonder
How long can the pen pitching survive with no starter capable of going 7?
The decisions appear to be the culmination of a burned out, injured and sick pen.
geogrman - May 3, 2009
to be fair, as Outman hasn't pitched in a game for 11 days
they had a 90 pitch limit on him.
but I do agree with your more general point, however
alea iacta est - May 3, 2009
I think that Gio put in a really good effort
all things considered. And Geren leaving him in for so long was total pitcher abuse.
My jaw hit the floor when he left Gio in the game after the A’s scored 3 in the top of the 13th.
colin - May 3, 2009
agree
I also agree that you jaw dropped to the floor.
Future Ed - May 3, 2009
ok, I have to check out
I’ve got enough negativity on my own right now, thanks.
colin - May 3, 2009
Gio put in a good effort
What game were you watching? five innings with 4bb not good folks. As far as pitch counts go he threw over a 100 in last AAA start. Days ago you folks were all running Eveland up the flag pole for not being able to hold a lead and Gio does the same thing.
granja - May 3, 2009
look at the first three innings Gio threw
it was a good line. The mistake was throwing him back out there for another inning….
gigglingone - May 3, 2009
But who would you throw?
I honestly think if there were ANYONE available, Geren would have gone to them. Who?
Nico - May 3, 2009
oh, pick me! pick me!
It wasn’t clear at that point that Bailey and Wuertz couldn’t pitch. From what I saw, they didn’t get up to start throwing until after that inning had started. I would’ve had one of them up as soon as we scored to give them enough time to warm up.
gigglingone - May 3, 2009
But the reality is that neither could go
If we’re going to kibitz we have to work with the facts – It may not have been clear to you or me, but it was clear to Geren that Wuertz was unavailable and it was clear to Geren as soon as Bailey started warming up that he wasn’t an option.
So if we accept that those two were not in fact options, who? I mean, Geren went to Eveland and Eveland (besides sucking) had pitched nearly 5 innings a day and a half before.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Giese maybe?
He threw 3.1 on Friday, but he’s thrown with a day off before as well….
I’m just saying, I don’t think Eveland got enough time to warm up before coming in. For a starter who is used to a much longer pre-game routine, that’s a tough adjustment, and I don’t think he was ready when he was thrown in there….
gigglingone - May 3, 2009
Well I've been saying that for two years
Giese was warming up at one point, so I assume that he, like Bailey, tried but were too tired from their previous outing.
I think Eveland’s problem was that he had thrown even more pitches than Giese on Friday – in fact, I’m not sure why he and not Giese was able to go, but every arm is different and one of Eveland’s worst qualities is that he’s very healthy.
Nico - May 3, 2009
I agree
The fact that Eveland went is all the proof I need that no one in the pen was at all ready.
nevermoor - May 3, 2009
I appreciate
Your analysis of this situation because it got ugly on the in game thread when people decided that somehow geren was mismanaging when in fact he was doing what he could do…and clearly Gio had the pitch count up enough to throw the amount that he threw…I could see this look in Gio’s eyes when he was sitting on the bench before he went back out there and I thought to myself he doesnt look very confident. Weird feeling and it surprised me because he had pitched pretty darn well for 3 innings
yawedout21 - May 4, 2009
Yeah, well you think Geren would have seen it, too.
Oh well…..guess the result might have been the same if Eveland had just come in then.
mrod - May 4, 2009
ya
and im sure he was trying to avoid using Eveland at all costs too… Even though I think a demotion is or should be in the cards for Eveland…Especially after the way Gio threw for those first 3 innings…We shall see
yawedout21 - May 4, 2009
Gio was not expecting to pitch....then he was asked to throw as many innings as the the starting pitcher...
To say that wasn’t a good outing by gio is just stupid….Honestly…Gio looked very good, trouble with the off speed, and some command issues, but i though he looked great considering he wasn’t planning on throwing 5 innings.
winchester5 - May 4, 2009
I fucking hate Holliday
and that worthless fucking Rajai Davis; and the awful fucking Jack Hanahan; and “why isn’t he in the minors” fat-fuck Eveland; and the over-the-hill fucking Giambi; and the fucking best man Geren; and the “I never fucking won anything ever” Billy fucking Beane.
Right now, I fucking hate them all.
RLangford - May 3, 2009
Plus a billion
Trainman - May 3, 2009
Man....and I thought I was pissed...
FUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mrod - May 3, 2009
RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE
www.ragetoons.com is extremely entertaining though…
muffinpryde - May 3, 2009
hey could you shoot me an email?
mikeA - May 3, 2009
No Sarcasm; Awesome post.
Matt Holliday is giving A’s fans a dose of double penetration in that (obviously) he is still not going to re-sign and (obviously) his trade value is lowering with every successive at bat.
Pucking Insane - May 3, 2009
"double penetration"
good analogy :)
mrod - May 3, 2009
double penetration?
oh, i get it. both the analogy and the other kind of -ogy.
AV - May 5, 2009
I think we all may need an anger management counselor
soon. We could hold meetings at Chez Nico three night a week.
somebodyelse - May 3, 2009
Davis
Should not be on the team. He’d be a serviceable fifth outfielder if he was a great basestealer and a great defender. But he’s not. Plus, he’s really our fourth outfielder, because Cust shouldn’t count.
One more thing: Daric Barton should be on the MLB roster. I know he’s been beyond awful in AAA so far, but he’s a much better hitter than Landon Powell and Bobby Crosby. Neither of those guys has half the bat they need to be a backup first basemen to Giambi. If Barton is still legitimately damaged, we should call up a Wes Bankston type instead.
swatnick - May 3, 2009
Wait, Barton's been awful in Triple A so far
Jesus, how fucking awful are we? I mean is every single one of our young hitters just a piece of shit or what? Unless, we trade them I mean.
RLangford - May 3, 2009
Cardenas is doing amazing.
Doolittle and Carter aren’t doing poorly either.
danmerqury - May 3, 2009
Climbing back in off ledge
RLangford - May 3, 2009
Yeah
Would have suggested Doolittle or carter but one could argue they need to be playing every day. Then again, you could probably stick Carter at third most of the time and live with his inadequate fielding, because his Offense + Defense is still > than whoever else we’ll be playing there.
swatnick - May 3, 2009
We already rushed Cahill, barton etc...lets not rush Carter
winchester5 - May 4, 2009
I'm usually not the Chicken Little type
but this is the kind of loss that, in August, when you’re looking back and asking where it all really started to go wrong…that Sunday afternoon in Seattle.
Soaker - May 3, 2009
Oh. My. God.
If I weren’t unemployed and could afford to buy a new TV, I think I would have thrown something through the screen today.
day-to-day - May 3, 2009
Colorado Fan - May 3, 2009
"Good thing I'm Billy's BFF"
coffee roaster - May 3, 2009
Why won't my lips
close over my teeth?
skigurl - May 3, 2009
"Don't get me wrong, he's a nice guy, I like him just fine,
but he’s a Mouth Breather!"
Gaijin_Suketto - May 4, 2009
"Now, where did I park that bus?"
Leopold Bloom - May 3, 2009
"Get Bailey up."
FormerHuntsvilleStar - May 3, 2009
"Now tell him to sit down!"
“No, get him back up!”
day-to-day - May 3, 2009
LOL
Kevin2 - May 3, 2009
Geren doing his best Holliday impression?
mrbendy - May 3, 2009
I'll have Eveland for the 14th
RLangford - May 3, 2009
"I've got hemorrhoids, arrrg"
ElQuesoCapitan - May 3, 2009
Why am I so fucking stupid?
RLangford - May 3, 2009
dude take it easy
this sucked, but you’re gonna hurt yourself and possibly get a cgv/cvg whatever it is
jlanning17 - May 3, 2009
Don't worry
Just venting
RLangford - May 3, 2009
If he gets a CGV for that, then I will be very disappointed.
A frustrating loss is part of being a fan, and having a place to vent with people who care about the subject as passionately as you do, is nice. So uh yeah, I’d let it go…
Pucking Insane - May 3, 2009
nah i wasn't threatening to give it myself
definitely not. i also didn’t want to see one given in the wrong situation, but too many F-bombs could set the wrong person off. carry on.
jlanning17 - May 4, 2009
You didn't capture Geren's nose + finger predisposition?
It’s surprising to notice the frequency in which the camera finds him either smelling his finger or slyly picking his nose.
franks a lot - May 4, 2009
Dude's congested...
…and the camera doesn’t usually show that he picks his butt prior to smelling his finger…
Gaijin_Suketto - May 4, 2009
euw......gross.
mrod - May 4, 2009
we're way past Geren
The real issue is Beane— he hired Geren. He traded for Holliday. He has made a bunch of injury risk decisions that keep backfiring. Does he really care anymore? Or he just enamored with the moves, and not the outcome? Will his tenure end before the Soderbergh film is released?
jasonthea - May 3, 2009
I jst have to laugh.
I mean come on, its now funny
Future Ed - May 3, 2009
I'm glad I missed this one
On the plus side, my softball team won 18-2…
dtownmbrown - May 3, 2009
wow, next time spare some runs for the A's....
gigglingone - May 3, 2009
Did we throw in the towel or what?
He should’ve left Outman in and I should’ve turned the tv off when he took him out. Is this a science project or a baseball team? Disgusting.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Why didnt Billy trade himself
for Youkilis, sheeeesh
ATarHeel - May 3, 2009
For real.
It’s not really Geren’s fault he’s stupid, or Art Howe, or Ken Macha for that matter. Nor is it Crosby, Hannahan, and Davis’s fault they aren’t good major leaguers. They all try their hardest, and give it their all, but they just can’t help it. On the other hand, it is Beane’s fault these guys are on a major league roster though.
KMoAsFan - May 3, 2009
Plus a billion to that
Beane is not a genius.
Nowhere farking near it.
The fact that he has Geren managing disqualifies him from even being intelligent.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
I feel your pain, Nico.
The title is perfect. The game was epic and so was the failing.
lynnzgal - May 3, 2009
0 for 7???
ridiculous
dtownmbrown - May 3, 2009
Where's that "THIS SHIT SUCKS" gif.
Someone should post it now.
ElQuesoCapitan - May 3, 2009
I'd love to see Eveland's contract sold to a Japanese team
But he’s probably not good enough to cut it there, either. Italy has a pro league, doesn’t it?
That was a really, truly terrible defensive inning, and an awful play by Davis. The game was full of bad defensive and baserunning fundamentals, though (Holliday’s useless dive, Suzuki getting pwned in that rundown, Eveland’s throw, etc). I just don’t understand how this team makes so many mental mistakes.
On the bright side, Josh Outman looked really, really nasty. I hope he can repeat that, because that was top of the rotation starter material. Gregorio Petit looked good, too—he showed a compact swing that can either pull or inside out with equal success. Powell deserved better, too.
No many how many bright spots there are, though, this team is gong to lose 90 if they continue to shoot themselves in the foot. They’re not good enough to get away with beating themselves.
jeepers - May 3, 2009
I definitely watched the wrong half of this game
tuned in during the eighth inning. I wish I had seen some of Outman’s outing.
colin - May 3, 2009
Hey, at least you did better than me.
I started at the bottom of the 13th.
danmerqury - May 4, 2009
The A's are 9-13
and if weren’t for a lucky nubber by Suzuki and a circus catch by Sweeney, they could easily be 7-15.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Of course, they could also be 12-10 and in first place
Opener vs. Seattle; Extras against Toronto or Yankees; today.
And voila, we’re in first place.
RLangford - May 3, 2009
Yup - it's actually remarkable
how many totally winable games we’ve lost and how many totally losable games we’ve won in 22 games.
But then it’s also remarkable when consecutive road trips end with 14 and 15 inning losses.
Nico - May 3, 2009
ATarHeel - May 3, 2009
Fire Geren, Bring up Denorfia, and DFA Raji
horrrrrrrrible day, actually weekend as an A’s fan…We blew the lead in multiple games, found out Geren is actually much worse of a manager then we actually thought was possible….Ask Raji to go to SAC, if he rejects it…ahh who cares? Bring up denforia and start slapin’ people around.
…
ryanmoser - May 3, 2009
This is extreme, I know, but
I’m starting to follow Giants games. Especially when Randy Johnson pitches. Or Lincecum. I can’t take much more of this.
PDSF - May 3, 2009
Yep
It’s easy to watch baseball when you know your heart won’t be broken… like broken 60-100x per year.
Colorado Fan - May 3, 2009
barry looked great today
:(
flipgatey3 - May 3, 2009
Barry has looked amazing in his past 3 starts.
cyke17 - May 3, 2009
What a delightful game....
to have missed. My A’s brethren are in quite a rage!
alox - May 3, 2009
Off topic, and more frustration here, but...
Beane traded Danny Haren for whaaaaat?! Hell, the guy didn’t even break the bank in AZ, the A’s could easily afford that contract.
KMoAsFan - May 3, 2009
I think it’s now their policy to give up on good players, even before they know what they’re worth.
PDSF - May 3, 2009
Really?
He got Anderson, Carter, Cunningham, Eveland, Cargon, and Smith. Those last two got Holliday who is, despite this season’s performance so far, a great player.
Helloooo 1st - May 3, 2009
Yeah - the Haren deal was a steal. One of Beane's best.
Nico - May 3, 2009
I still don't think it was a steal!
Haren was a legitimate ace who was under cheap control for 3 more years
faninphilly - May 3, 2009
And even considering that, it still was a steal.
Think about it. Anderson? Five-star blue-chip pitching prospect. Carter has more power than anyone. Cunningham can be a great roleplayer. Cargon was (still is) a first-rate outfield prospect. And the two throw-ins are two capable major league starters in Eveland and Smith. Aren’t throw-ins usually guys who never get past A-ball?
One of Beane’s best, for sure.
danmerqury - May 4, 2009
The Deal to get Haren was a Steal - When we stole him from the Cardinals
We turned Mulder into Haren and Barton which in return has gotten Anderson, Carter, Cunningham, Eveland, (Cargon, and Smith = Holliday)…..
ryanmoser - May 4, 2009
No worries
Costanza says it’s gonna be the summer of George.. If the A’s do everything backwards, they’ll win it all..
danh - May 3, 2009
After this game...
…Geren should not only be fired, he should be Photoshopped out of Billy’s wedding album.
(Eh, I dunno. I usually don’t advocate manager firings ‘cause I know I probably wouldn’t last a week as one, but this weekend was that frustrating.)
FormerHuntsvilleStar - May 3, 2009
At some point you have to look at the GM
for hiring one pathetic manager after another and wonder whether he thought about winning before he hired them.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
READ MY POST YESTERDAY ABOUT GM'S HOLDING THEMSELVES ACOOUNTABLE
mrod - May 3, 2009
In case anyone was interested about that comment...
here it is…http://www.athleticsnation.com/2009/5/2/862626/criminal-managing-geren-is-proving#15153642
mrod - May 3, 2009
Cust is a fantastic fielder.
I only say that because the combination of Cust’s bat and his acceptable fielding trump his any kind of defensive replacement scheme. I’m not going after Rajai, because he has fantastic speed, can steal bases, etc., but he has zero power, and Cust is by far the best hitter we have (Suzuki being the possible exception).
If it were me, I would never take Cust out. Ever. Giambi is not the old Giambi. Holliday is on holiday right now. But Cust should play every inning of every game. It’s not like he ever gets injured.
louismg - May 3, 2009
I could not agree more.
I secretly want Suzuki to lead off, and Cust to bat second.
tresselfan - May 3, 2009
here, here my friends....
I second that emotion!
mrod - May 3, 2009
But 3rd is where I really need you to think outside of the box...
I want Kurt to bat third too. And if somehow he was on base, and Jack had not driven him in, then we could use a ghost runner like in the old school wiffle ball games…
tresselfan - May 3, 2009
This
Buck Turgidson - May 3, 2009
The End.
mrod - May 3, 2009
I will go after Rajai
There is no place in MLB for a center fielder with no plate skills.
PDSF - May 3, 2009
I tuned out when we were up 7-4
thinking surely….surely….we could hold a three-run lead for three outs. Just came back to read the jubilation on AN.
Oh.
Englishmajor - May 3, 2009
you are no longer allowed to tune out the games, k?
especially when we have the lead!!!
gigglingone - May 3, 2009
The Game in Pictures
GreenNGoldSooner - May 3, 2009
LOL
PDSF - May 3, 2009
+2
geogrman - May 3, 2009
Thank you for that...
I was thinking…wouldn’t it be funny if the big crane fell in too?…scroll…sweeeet.
tresselfan - May 3, 2009
That is funny!
(Even if the last photo’s a fake…)
FormerHuntsvilleStar - May 3, 2009
LOLOLOLOL
ATarHeel - May 3, 2009
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA
I have not laughed this hard in a while!
closetasfan - May 3, 2009
+3
Haha wtf
fruitattack - May 3, 2009
A good laugh! Much needed....
Jackson23 - May 4, 2009
Baun just said something like
I think most of you have identified the one person who you consider lost the game.
Now lets see….
Trainman - May 3, 2009
in other words the scapegoat
I don’t think this is the product of just one player
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
can we read something into the fact that
he said “person” and not “player”?
Kallus - May 3, 2009
It all falls on Beane
I thought this team would compete, win 86 games, but standing back and looking objectively, what on Earth was I thinking? Beane made a bunch of moves that were akin to plugging a hole in the Hoover Dam with a piece of gum, similar to Vegas Vacation. Why I thought that the moves Beane made this offseason were going to turn this thing around, I will never know. Giambi is in severe decline, Nomar chose us over retirement, Ellis is a shell of his former self, Chavez was done before the season started, Eveland is probably the worst pitcher in MLB, etc. No need to rehash it, but clearly anyone with any objectivity could have seen we weren’t going to be good. Throw in that Holliday is nothing but a joke created by Coors Field, and Geren is completely incompetent in game situations, roster management, etc., and it’ll be hard to imagine how this team won’t finish in last place. Luckily this division isn’t that great, but still. This is going to be a frustrating season.
sprtsnwyn - May 3, 2009
it ain't Billy
An average manager sweeps the M’s with this roster. Managing is not rocket science. Billy knows this, so he just gave the job to his buddy thinking he’d be as competent as anyone, and cheap enough. Instead, Geren is proving to be one of the worst in the majors.
Benjamin Light - May 3, 2009
Geren's VORM is -3 wins so far this season...
However, Geren’s VORBM (Value Over Replacement Billy Martin) is an astounding -6…
At least that’s what the sabermetrically inclined ghost who lives in my garage told me…
Gaijin_Suketto - May 3, 2009
Hiring managers
who are totally detrimental to the team falls of course on Beane.
Holliday like I said, has found out the AL is a real league. Going 0-7 is simply pathetic.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
Things we could and couldn't have seen
Could:
Chavez would never play
Nomar would never play
Duchsherer would never play
Devine would never play
Ellis wouldn’t be the same
The rookie pitchers would have a bumpy time
Cabrera would get off to a slow start
Suzuki would be solid
Couldn’t:
Holliday would totally suck
Giambi would be in steep decline
Sweeney would be more valuable defensively than offensively
Add it up and we’re probably lucky to be 9-13.
PDSF - May 3, 2009
Disagree on some
Devine would never play
Ellis wouldn’t be the same
Giambi would be in steep decline
Sweeney would be more valuable defensively than offensively
The last two I think I (and many others) called repeatedly. The first two are sad but hardly a slam dunk.
nevermoor - May 3, 2009
Giambis Problem is that he has holliday batting after him.
He walks a lot, and gets crap pitches to him because of Holliday not doing crap behind him.
cyke17 - May 3, 2009
Giambi's problem is that he's old
And has been in steep decline for a couple years. Protection is a myth, and the idea that people are pitching around him to get to Holliday is nonsense to begin with.
nevermoor - May 3, 2009
Really? Have you seen some of his walks this year? Most are like 5 pitch walks.
He’s getting crap to hit, because you don;‘t have to give him anything good. It’s not a myth, just watch the pitches.
cyke17 - May 3, 2009
Prove to me that protection exists in any context ever
And then I’ll consider your argument that Holliday is bad protection for Giambi.
nevermoor - May 3, 2009
How about this scenario
Suppose Barry Bonds had a twin brother who was just as awesome as Bonds. And they bat 3rd and 4th in a lineup.
There’s an open base and the first Bonds is up. In reality with a “normal” hitter behind him, this is an automatic intentional walk scenario.
But what do you do with Bonds’ twin brother batting directly behind him? Do you walk the first one and face the bases loaded with second Bonds at bat? Of course not.
Sure this is an extreme example because Bonds is a once in a generation talent…
Travis Buck Nuckin - May 3, 2009
You bean them both in the balls
And go to Coldstone
Gallagher's Watermelons - May 3, 2009
With the strinkage from steriods that might be a little tough.
DMOAS - May 3, 2009
Giambi walks, Holliday hits 2-run homer
…I thought this would have happened by now this season, at least once!
Instead Holliday has hit 2 solo HRs, but is pretty useless with runners on base.
charm3x - May 4, 2009
Fair enough
I saw Devine coming…thought Ellis would defy expectations.
PDSF - May 3, 2009
I always gave Beane the benefit of the doubt
But the hiring of Geren – when we’ve let three good bench coaches leave to become successful managers elsewhere (jury still out on Washington, but he’s still better than Geren) – shows that he views this team as his little private toy instead of a multi-million dollar franchise.
His obsession with Chavez and his handling of him has been appalling. When his shoulder started turning to hamburger three years ago he should have been converted to a first baseman, whether he wanted to or not. His career would have been extended and some value might have been gotten from his contract. Now Chavez is through, the club still owes him millions and now for third base we have a guy who’s never played the position or a guy who can’t hit worth a damn. His mishandling of the Chavez situation screams incompetence, and this far predates the Geren fiasco.
But back to Geren – if I hired my BFF to run a multi-million dollar division and my BFF screwed it up, I’d expect both of us to lose our jobs. Seems this only happens in the real world and not in the cozy confines of MLB.
coffee roaster - May 3, 2009
Maybe it's just me
But I never thought Chavez was worth much offensively anyway. He had one good season, the same year Tejada had a monster year, and hasn’t done shit since.
PDSF - May 3, 2009
It's not just you...
…I’ve felt he was way over-rated offensively for a long time.
UncleLeo - May 3, 2009
Since his contract is a sunk cost,
it’s better to try to get something out of him if at all possible…
However, to rely on or to plan around him is kinda silly.
Plus, many of us still remember how in the late 90’s he was being hyped as the kind of guy who could hit .330 with 30 dingers every year, and maybe some people are still bitter that he never lived up to those projections. I’m not one of those people, but still…
Gaijin_Suketto - May 3, 2009
That's just not true.
Eric Chavez had four very good seasons, 2001 to 2004. From 2005 to 2007 he was noticeably worse but still slightly better than average for a 3B. It wasn’t until 2008 that he became really bad.
I’m disappointed in Chavvy’s decline, and I fear that he really is done now, but you’ll never see me saying I never thought he was any good offensively. Of course I thought he was good offensively. I thought he was great. I remember how magnificent his swing looked, even in 1999. I was sure that within a year or two he’d be a regular competitor in home run derbies at the All-Star Game.
He didn’t quite live up to those expectations, but he was still very good for several years, not coincidentally the same years when the A’s were making the playoffs year after year.
iglew - May 4, 2009
Thank you
After this marathon game of fail, I didn’t have the patience to reply. If I did, it would have looked something like this (probably with more cursing).
Joey C. - May 4, 2009
Hah.
I take it you’re not familiar with the corporate world.
iglew - May 4, 2009
Uhh, no.
Beane caused Ziegler to fall ill. Beane also caused Nomar, Ellis, Casilla to injure themselves. Billy personally stabbed Joey Devine in the arm.
Injuries, slow starts, etc. Holliday is a joke? He’s a .800 OPS player away from Coors, and seeing as almost everyone does better home than away, it’s reasonable to think that he can do better than that playing all his games away from Coors. He’s not the best player ever, but he’s certainly no joke.
Bad breaks, sir, that is all.
NateHST - May 3, 2009
Beane gave a guy coming off major surgery (for the second time, of the same shoulder)
A three-year deal, and signed a guy that only Mia Hamm is surprised to see injured.
jeepers - May 3, 2009
who did Beane give a three year contract to who had had two shoulder surgeries?
Chavez signed his deal in 2004, long before he had surgeries. Ellis has only had surgery once on his shoulder.
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
Who the hell do you think you are, putting those damn facts in the middle of all this
Beane bashing BS. How dare you.
theblackpearl - May 3, 2009
those damn facts...such killjoys!
not that there aren’t facts that can be used to bash….
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
My mistake
I should have said “two catastrophic shoulder injuries.” I’d forgotten that he didn’t have surgery the first time (and instead missed an entire season) because surgery would have been deemed career-ending. But hey, we have a great track record with guys that have chronic shoulder problems, so why not throw money at another one?
jeepers - May 3, 2009
Ellis had SHOULDER surgery and then hurt his LEG
Nomar wasn’t supposed to play every day. And yet, he saw quite a bit of playing time.
I don’t see how Beane is at fault for these.
NateHST - May 3, 2009
perhaps in planning for Chavvy to play more than he has?
OaklandSi - May 4, 2009
I hate to keep harping on in-game management
and maybe there is something that I’m missing, but where was Wuertz today? Was he unavailable for some reason? He didn’t pitch Friday night and threw all of 13 pitches last night. I understand not wanting to over-extend an already taxed ‘pen, but considering Gonzale was making his season debut and had already gone 3 innings, wouldn’t it have made sense for Wuertz to pitch the 13th? There must be something I don’t know…?
EastVillageA - May 3, 2009
Wuertz had to be unavailable or he probably would have pitched the 9th
(Springer the 8th), and certainly would have pitched the 13th.
Nico - May 3, 2009
but I guess I'm wondering why
he was absolutely, no matter what, under no circumstances will he be used unavailable. I get, of course, the pen has been totally overused, but it was the 13th inning, a kid making his debut had already thrown 3 innings and was starting to look gassed and we had a chance to take a road series from a division rival. And Wuertz had only thrown 13 pitches in the series to that point. I don’t know – maybe I don’t have enough appreciation for not wanting to abuse guys…
EastVillageA - May 3, 2009
I imagine he (and Bailey) got up, started warming up,
and told the bullpen coach “no go.” Frankly, if he didn’t feel right, better to lose this game than to lose Wuertz long term. Why he couldn’t go after one inning Friday and yesterday off, I don’t know, but it happens. “Couldn’t get loose,” “felt something in my shoulder,” “caught Ziggy’s flu,” whatever.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Well, Eveland can NEVER get loose
But I guess, props to him for going in there and getting it over with.
PDSF - May 3, 2009
The sacrificial lamb
mrod - May 3, 2009
Then I'm going to become a vegetarian.
Nico - May 3, 2009
TVP lamb, then?
mrod - May 3, 2009
I agree with that
if that is the case. Hopefullly Slusser or someone will provide some clarity on that
EastVillageA - May 3, 2009
a deadfully overworked bullpen
I have to think even pitchers who didn’t throw much this weekend were physically unavailable. This isn’t only a game fail, it’s cumulative.
This terrific bullpen has been overworked because the rotation has not pitched enough innings.
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
Did you expect anything else from a rotation this young?
NateHST - May 3, 2009
no I didn't
which is why I wanted to see Beane do an offseason trade to bring in a good veteran starter. I thought all through the offseason that it was unreasonably optimistic to expect the talented but fragile Duchscherer to be the lone veteran “ace”.
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
yes. yes. and yes.
mrod - May 3, 2009
Yes, yes yes
baseballgirl - May 3, 2009
Everything went wrong
-Pen is no incredibly overworked. Only Weurtz and Bailey available tomorrow to back up a pitcher who had to be removed from his last start due to injury.
-Angles get rained out. Not only will they have a rested bullpen, but now we get to face ANOTHER lefty, in Saunders (who owns us) who was supposed to go today. This also allows them to skip Ortega and go with Weaver on Tuesday, further hurting the A’s.
Jason - May 3, 2009
And it wasn't even raining that bad in nyc today
stupid wusses who won’t play in a drizzle
EastVillageA - May 3, 2009
You know what?
I’m glad I missed the last several innings of this game. I turned off the radio when we went up 6-4 in the 13th and spent the next 2 hours happily thinking that we had won. Get back in the car to hear the end of Ken’s recap — something about Eveland pitching, and Lopez up, and Rajai not catching a shallow fly ball, and the Mariners win 8-7 — what.the.crap.
So, I’m just going to pretend this whole thing never happened. We had a rainout today, right? Right??
Sigh.
whiteshoes40 - May 3, 2009
The worst part of this game is I wasted almost 5 hours on my day
watching this “B-movie”….
mrod - May 3, 2009
It's inefficient to only watch baseball...
Baseball is meant to be watched/ listened to while doing something else. I personally was cooking when the game went to hell.
Gaijin_Suketto - May 3, 2009
Seems we
aught to give the M’s their due. They may indeed be the class of the division this year, as unbelievable as that may seem.
alox - May 3, 2009
The Mariners are playing good baseball
they’re winning big and they’re winning little.
I of course didn’t like the A’s getting swept in the coliseum, but only the second game really pissed me off because I felt that the A’s had that game won and they gave it away…the other two games i think the Mariners won.
The Mariners are playing with alot of heart, so props to them and their manager.
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
I agree they're playing with a ton of heart and they're much improved
Heart doesn’t sustain over 162 games, though. Not sure who the “class” of this division is, at this point. As in, no clue.
Nico - May 3, 2009
right, I wouldn't crown anyone the "class" of the division just yet
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
Of course that's the only game I've been to this year
PDSF - May 3, 2009
one of the good points about being a season ticket holder
is there are usually plenty of “feel good” games, even in a sub-.500 year
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
one of the bad points about being a season ticket holder
is there are usually plenty of “feel bad” games, even in a championship year
Gaijin_Suketto - May 3, 2009
well if you only go to a very few games
what are your chances of seeing a feel good game?
I’m a season ticket holder because I am a diehard Oakland A’s fan and I live close enough to be able to see them more than a couple of times a year. Fandom doesn’t depend on their winning every game that a fan can attend. Even fans of a contending team are likely to see games in which their teams lose.
OaklandSi - May 4, 2009
Not every win is a feel good game,
and not every loss is a feel bad game, although it can be for those who take baseball very seriously.
I
Gaijin_Suketto - May 4, 2009
that's so true
OaklandSi - May 4, 2009
I wouldn't go that far now...
still got alot of season left
mrod - May 3, 2009
Josh had a great game.
I do still believe the offense will produce at a higher level, and feel that these starters have been getting better. We are still at a point where we don’t need to outperform these other teams by much to catch up…an extra win every two weeks catches us up in June. Everything is going to be fine. Don’t worry. Be happy. We will get them next time.
tresselfan - May 3, 2009
I was very impressed with Outman too
looks like he might have leap-frogged Eveland as the odd-man-out in the rotation. Assuming, of course, that Gio doesn’t implode (again)
Kallus - May 3, 2009
that should say an extra win or two...
tresselfan - May 3, 2009
Wow, did I pick a good day to take in an opera matinee or what?
doctorK - May 3, 2009
was it a tragedy or farce too?
ak_A - May 3, 2009
I was reading the Drumbeat
and SS thinks Bailey will be the new fulltime closer.
This to me suggests that wth a healthy Ziggy they are not confident of him getting lefties out consistently.
Of course we need about 5 roster moves and a new manager to be competitive anyway.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
Used to love the guy, but it's nice to hear AN ripping Billy. He deserves it.
This guy’s just gone so sour, seems like everything he touches turns to poop and, until today, he just constantly got the benefit of the doubt. Wasn’t so long ago GMs were terrified of dealing with Billy. Now it’s like, Get Billy on the phone: I want somebody really good from the A’s and I’m willing to give poop in return, so Billy’s my guy. Sean Gallagher and Murton and Patterson for Gaudin, with Harden thrown in? Perfect. Man, this club sucks. Gee, we would have won but we had a guy with the flu so we lost – twice. Took a real genius to figure out that Chavvy sucked years ago, didn’t it? Never mind: let’s pretend we’re surprised when he’s horrible. Baseball’s still a great game, but when the A’s will next have a decent club … heck, the second they get reasonably close in the standings, Billy trades somebody to load up for, uh, right now. This division is horrible … and the A’s are the worst team in it.
solotar - May 3, 2009
I understand leaving Gio in to start the 13th
What I don’t understand is intermittently telling Giese and Bailey to warm up— wait, no sit!— wait, get up!— wait! Seems the smart play is to have one of them warm up as soon as Gio puts a guy on base and then send ’em in when there are runners on 1st and 2nd.
It’s just a case of bullpen mismanagement.
Luckily, despite the fact that this amounted to almost 2 full ballgames, it only counts as 1 loss. Plenty more baseball to play in a division that is nowhere close to having a dominant team.
Joey C. - May 3, 2009
How do you know, they didn't get up, and not be able to get loose. That happens a lot,
There are things, no matter what the hell the AN geniuses think, that we just don’t know, or should know.
theblackpearl - May 3, 2009
Two guys couldn't get loose?
That’s an awful lot of bad luck.
I agree with Joey C. on this one. They’re either not available, in which case they never get up, or they are, in which case their lack of an appearance in the 13th, especially after the runners get on, is just inexcusable.
bear88 - May 3, 2009
Bad luck? Bailey has been in what 15 of 20 something games, and Giese pitched 3
innings on Friday.
theblackpearl - May 3, 2009
I suppose that's a possibility
But I don’t think that explains why they’d tell Bailey to get up, and if he finds out he can’t go, tell him to get up again 2 batters later.
Joey C. - May 3, 2009
Is that what happened?
I thought he got up when Betancourt was coming to the plate, but then stopped throwing and sat down soon after.
Nico - May 3, 2009
bailey never actually got up at all
The A’s used his hologram today..
mrod - May 3, 2009
The Mariners telecast...
… showed Bailey frantically scrambling to get warmed up after the first or second batter reached. Then it showed him sitting down about 2 minutes later. Then getting up again a couple of minutes after that. Then sitting down with his jacket on a few minutes after that. It was bizarre, and the Mariners announcers were having a bit of fun with it.
Joey C. - May 3, 2009
Well, if so then I'd agree that's pretty lame.
Nico - May 3, 2009
the A's radio broadcasters also mentioned it
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
Well if that's what happened then I have to agree
with the Geren-bashing on that. He was supposed to be unavailable, so then let him sit – you do not want to mess up that arm. If he was available, he should have been in by the time Guiterrez came up, when the game was still well in the A’s hands and Gio was clearly sputtering.
Nico - May 3, 2009
I remember Vince or Ken saying it
How does this square with Geren’s comments after the game?
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
Gee, that's a tough call
What to do with a pitcher who has made a career so far of pitching poorly, who started the year pitching badly and has gotten worse…Maybe, I dunno…STOP PITCHING HIM IN THE ROTATION???
Nico - May 3, 2009
Eveland
is not the problem. He’ll just bump him back to #5 or clean off the roster. I hope not. It seems Geren just needs to time the hook better with him.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Eveland gets 8 warmups before the 1st inning begins
Can Geren learn to time the hook sometime between #s 5-7?
Nico - May 3, 2009
Eveland
shouldn’t have had anything to do with today’s loss at all. The game should’ve been won in 9.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Or 13. Blown saves happen,
especially when your co-closers are both unavailable and your third closer is also unavailable. But the 13th was…sigh.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Eveland
threw 5 innings and gave up 1 run against World Series Champions Rays. Clearly not long enough, but acceptable. Then, he gave up 3 in 4 innings against Seattle and clearly didn’t have his stuff. But, yet Geren left him in to give up 4 runs in the 5th inning. Forgivable mistake by a manager, maybe. But to try to bring him in 2 days later against the same team, in extra innings…. He needs to recognize when his pitcher’s are throwing well… perfect example- Yanking Outman tonight when he was dealing
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Today it was between Eveland and a position player
Granted, still a tough call, but…
Nico - May 3, 2009
yes
and eveland is not to blame for that
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
I don't blame Eveland for anything today,
except throwing a bunt into center-field because he doesn’t even know how to square his body for a throw to a base. Had he not done that, however, he probably loses the game soon after anyway.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Eveland does one thing right
and that is put the team in a losing positon every time he pitches. He has been doing that in his ML career so far.
A career 5 plus ERA and 2 baserunners plus per inning indicate he does nothing but bury his team.
I think I have stated my opinion on this. I didn’t even comment when he came in today because it was futile and Geren had aleady blown the game by leaving poor Gio in who clearly ran out of gas.
And taking out two good sluggers and basically fucking the team as he does most nights when he manages.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
Thank you, well said…
slkierley - May 3, 2009
BTW
Today it was between Outman and a AAA callup… not a tough call
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Of course if Springer doesn't serve up a HR to a terrible hitter,
we’re gleefully celebrating a series win.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Of course
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
I think it's safe to say that Springer
had three bad days
Ryan Sweeney save him from loss #1
He lost us game #2 which was caused earlier by An ineffective SP and a stupid manager
Springer cost us this game by throwing another meatball to a bad hitting catcher.
That’s three bad outings in a row.
Also by reading the SF Chronicle Su Slusser indicates that Bailey will be closing and not Ziggy. I guess af far as the closer goes, they think Bailey is that good and that Ziggy cannot get lefties out.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
Send him to AAA
is what you do.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
I was at the Ports game last Wednesday
They were dismal. More like a Low A team. We are draining the reservoir.
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
Seems like a reasonable fix is to push Eveland back a day or 2...
… and bring up some DiNardo-esque spot-starter from AAA.
Joey C. - May 3, 2009
Sorry but at this point Eveland should be pushed to AAA
He is not good.
24.1 innings 57 baserunners says it all
I do not see how they can allow him to pitch in the majors when he has no clue how to pitch except be a benfactor to the opposition much like Geren who is a team member of whoever we are playing. In other words Geren will be assisting the slegnA tomorrow night. It is up to Brett Anderson to defy the odds. Geren will pull him when he’s throwing a 1 hitter in the 7th inning with a 5 run lead and having only throw 75 pitches.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
I look forward to-- or rather, dread...
… your reaction when the A’s bring up the younger pitchers who, at this point in their careers, are likely to pitch a lot like Eveland is right now. The nice thing about the Gallaghers, the Mazzaros, and the Simmonses of this organization is that they have upside, not that they are likely to be all that good at the major league level.
Joey C. - May 4, 2009
At the major league level as of right now, that is
Joey C. - May 4, 2009
Mazzaro has talent
I have not once criticized Anderson or Cahill because neither of these are worthless like Eveland. Eveland speaks for himself. Does not have an out pitch, allows 2 million baserunners and has sucked from start to finish as his stats suggest. You know the all important ones like ERA, Hits, WHIP and losses.
Young pitchers need to be given a chance. I think Eveland has had his and FAILED.
Once again I am talking about Eveland and not the promising young pitchers we have. I would not even be repeating for the 100th time that Eveland sucks IMO except that I am answering your post regarding other pitchers and what my reaction might be.
Trainman - May 4, 2009
I get it
I’m just saying the alternatives aren’t much better. There is a very real possibility of derailing a promising pitching prospect by giving him baptism by major league fire too soon.
I understand; Eveland has pitched horribly. But if you get rid of him, what do you have to fall back on?
Joey C. - May 4, 2009
True
I like a lot of others think Cahill was brought up well before he is ready but I guess we can say he’s learning on the job. I don’t know what he’s going to do next time but if he’s on his regular rest I would bet that he is going to pitch great. He’s had a couple of rough outings and really was bailed out by the Moroners but his sinker is so good that he has the ability to get himself out of trouble.
Anderson is much more polished and I think he was ready anyway. They are going to get rocked quite a few times but that is understandable and acceptable.
It’s a pity Mazarro got rocked in AAA because from what i understand, he has a pretty good sinker and while he may not be ready, he could not be any worse than Eveland.
But I agree that there is a problem with players not being ready.
Trainman - May 4, 2009
EXACTLY. Geren simply couldn't figure out what to do and was completely indecisive.
His body language said it all. Geren got Bailey up 2x and got him up late at that.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
Thanks again Bob Geren/Lew Wolfe
Wow, I don’t EVEN know where to begin. Once again, Bob Geren has proven that he has NO BUSINESS IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL! He leaves in Gio ( no experence) Gonzales for 108 PITCHES!!!! ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME????
God, I am so about to give up on this year.
Once again, bad managing producing bad, no, HORRIBLE results!
Hey Wolfe, why don’t you sell the A’s to a group who ACTUALLY CARES about winning and less about the financial line at the end of the day, and MAYBE you will starting winning ball games.
I so digress…
slkierley - May 3, 2009
Yeah, where is that savior...
…who loves the A’s more than his money?
I know that if I were a billionaire, I’d buy this club in a heartbeat and be willing to be in the red up to 25 million a year…
Gaijin_Suketto - May 3, 2009
In fact, if I were dictator of the world,
I would require sports franchises to be money losers, and the owners would earn prestige and social standing by the amount of money they lost running their respective clubs…
The most honorable thing for an owner would be to go completely broke trying to win a championship, and then to beg for a job as a peanut vendor so he could continue to be connected somehow to the club he/she gave the fortune away for…
Gaijin_Suketto - May 3, 2009
I think
that a child who loves baseball could’ve picked the guys to finish today’s game before it even went to extra innings. Therefore, it’s like Major League, the movie, where they are trying to doom the team, instead of doing the simple things it takes to win.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
I'd like to know
why no Giese at any point? Was he hurt? Eveland is supposed to start soon right? Is he going to be pushed back?
closetasfan - May 3, 2009
He pitched 3.1 IP on Friday, so he wasn't really supposed to be available
He did get up at one point, as did Bailey. I don’t know if Wuertz ever did, but if not then he must have clearly been not available for whatever reason.
Nico - May 3, 2009
hey thanks nico
and don’t mind all the people getting on your case about the new thread (including me). you’re doing great, and we all appreciate what you do
closetasfan - May 3, 2009
LOL - I didn't even know
But I’m not surprised. People take their mojo very seriously.
Nico - May 3, 2009
If Geren gets them up they have to be ready to go in. These guys are multimillion dollar
athletes. Stop treating them like little china dolls.
The thing that speaks volumes as to Geren’s incompetence is getting them up, sitting them down, and so on. Make up your f’n mind. You get paid to make these decisions and be proactive and not indecisive.
It was laughable when he decided to get Baily up WHEN THERE WERE TWO OUTS in the twelfth and the tying run at 3rd base. As if Bailey would have enough time to warm up before the damage was done. What a dimwit.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
so with you on this one mate
mrod - May 3, 2009
No. First of all, I think Bailey got up
for Lopez. Gio was going to get two more hitters, including the lefty Ichiro, and Bailey would be ready for Lopez. Bailey, I will just about guarantee you, started warming up and said he couldn’t go. He wasn’t even supposed to be available in the first place.
Nico - May 3, 2009
"Stop treating them like china dolls"?
Evidence to date indicates that a pack of china dolls would whup the A’s into Dust.
MobiusKlein - May 3, 2009
Nico's dog
could do better
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
It's time to point more of the finger of blame at Beane
Geren may be misusing the roster and he may make questionable in-game decisions. We know that.
Beane’s the one who’s ultimately responsible for the roster Geren has to work with, and since 2006 the roster has been crap. Last year the pitching was passable but the hitting was one of the worst years I’ve seen as an A’s fan.
This year the hitting is supposed to be better but the first month hasn’t been much to hang your hat on, and the starters have done what they could (some better than others) while the bullpen has been exceptional but on a pace for a few arms to fall off.
Beane’s made some great trades in the past but he’s also made some pretty bad ones and the shine is wearing off. I don’t have an answer for someone to replace him but it’s getting to the point where I think he’s past his prime as a GM, if there can be such a thing. Sure, the minors are looking strong again but a lot of the people in the system just wind up on other teams anyway and it seems like once others get brought up to the big club they can’t bring their success in the lower levels with them.
“In Billy We Trust” is no more.
Flashfire - May 3, 2009
yeah
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
Maybe it's time for him to hand the reigns over to young Dave Forst...?
mrod - May 3, 2009
What's confuzzling is that I know Billy is tired
of having seasons derailed by injury. So he goes out and signs Nomar and Giambi, re-signs Ellis, and continues to make no effort to address the future of 3B…?
Nico - May 3, 2009
Yep
Some very questionable moves over the last few years.
Flashfire - May 3, 2009
You think Forst isn't already holding the reins?
iglew - May 3, 2009
+6485476576596376396546746776403321213654746
ATarHeel - May 3, 2009
yeah... if yer gonna get rid of Billy,
you need to get rid of Forst, Zaidi, Geren, and OaklandA23 along with…
Gaijin_Suketto - May 3, 2009
Not OaklandA23!
iglew - May 4, 2009
Billy Beane
IMO is the the reason why we don’t go to the playoffs of late.
The worst offense year after year is due to his philosophy of back your way on base. Lack of aggression over the years leads to no runs being scored. The slegnA walked the least in the AL last year but they scored more runs. It seems like our hitters (half of them anyway) are too scared to hit the ball and would rather walk and leave it to the next one. Our hitters last long enough round here that they turn into lambs and either pop up by swinging at the wrong pitch after having watched two meatballs go by or they strikeout looking.
Also having a cripple at 3rd base who should have been made to fix his injuries four years ago when they first cropped up. The left side of the infield has been a major problem for Beane when it comes to drafting or lack thereof.
As far as this year goes, I like Cust and his new approach. He is doing his part.
I do not like strike 3 calls and am tired of people saying, “It wasn’t a strike” and blaming the umpire. That again is trying to walk on base. If it’s close swing at it.
I am too pissed off with all the inept things that have happened in the series and the fool that is managing. That is on Beane as well.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
You're completely missing the fact that Beane has essentially nothing to work with.
travdog6 - May 3, 2009
Um yeah, because he TRADES AWAY ALL OF OUR TALENT!!!
slkierley - May 3, 2009
I don't think he does that at all
travdog6 - May 4, 2009
I got scoffed and ridiculued, but I agree with the guys at EiO
Beane aint running the show anymore. For the past two years, Forst has been calling all the shots. Forst aint Beane…
Pucking Insane - May 3, 2009
I wondered about it also
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
Calling for Beane's head is a little off the deep end. However, calling for Beane
to realize he made a mistake in hiring a doofus/monkey/dimwitted numbskull is appropriate at this point. I’ll start calling Beane’s judgment into question every day from here on out so long as Geren remains the manager.
Further, if the Bay Area sports media doesn’t have Geren’s head on a platter tomorrow I’ll lose the scintilla of respect I have for them right now.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
Truthfully, I'm not sure there's anything you can really point to with Geren today
Ziegler, Bailey, Giese, and apparently Wuertz were not available today. Devine and Casilla are on the DL.
Look at who’s left: Springer (used to close), Cameron (whom he stretched out for two innings), and Gio (whom he stretched out as long as he possibly could). He wound up using Friday night’s starting pitcher – that’s the guy who threw 4.2 IP 36 hours before – because the A’s literally ran out of pitchers. The A’s were in position to win twice and neither Springer nor Gio could get it done – and all Gio had to do, no matter how stretched he was at that point – was to “not give up three runs.”
Other than anticipate a 15 inning game with two brutally blown saves and leave Outman in (and come on, you don’t think he might have given up the lead right there in the 7th?), I don’t know what a manager can do with such bad options who perform so badly.
Nico - May 3, 2009
I agree with this.
This game was a laugher, but I don’t think Geren made any real mistakes. I think he made the right call with both Outman and Gio.
Switching in Rajai turned out to be bad, but it made sense at the time.
iglew - May 3, 2009
Yeah, you can't really manage with a 9th inning lead
like “well what if it goes 15?” You put all your eggs in one basket at that point and give yourself the best chance to win it in 9.
Nico - May 3, 2009
I usually feel that when a home team ties up the game late
that they’re most likely to win. So when the A’s held the Mariners off for three extra innings after they tied the game in the ninth, and then scored three runs in the top of the 13th, only to give up those three in the bottom of the 13th, I frankly didn’t expect the A’s to win….not being negative, I always root for my team. But we all knew that the pen was very, very worn down…
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
Disagree wholeheartedly here....
1) These defensive substitutions need to stop. With the way Crosby has been playing at 3b lately, Hannahan (cold) isn’t much of an upgrade. Even if he is, is Crosby better at 1B than Giambi? Further, if you are going to take out cust and put davis in his place – leave davis in RF and NOT CF. Davis has proven, time and again, to be a hack in CF. Speed does not = great defense. Has Geren not seen the Sweeney catches of this last week. He is clearly better in CF than RF. Cust has not been all that brutal out there this year.
2) Said Defenses changes have a way of depleting an already depleted lineup. There was no way we should have won this game. Going up by 3 in the 12th was a miracle by itself with the lineup we had out there. Hanahan is such garbage.
3) Bullpen management in the 12th was a joke. Geren was acting late and in a reactionary way. A good manager acts proactively. Getting Bailey up so late was a joke. If you are going to find out the guy can’t pitch do it sooner rather than later. Why have Giese warm up at all if you aren’t going to use him? If Bailey can’t go, so be it. However, finding out Bailey can’t go when it’s too late shows Geren’s lack of an ability to manage.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
Add on that the abnormally high number of bunt attempts and botched double steals
and you have Geren not looking like so much of a genius.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
You mean like trying a double steal today with Petit at the plate,
when Petit hadn’t had a single bad at bat yet all series?
Nico - May 3, 2009
Yeah, sort of like that.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
Very well put.
Agreed with all points made here. Especially that the defensive substitutions need to stop.
jdub69 - May 4, 2009
This game was Outman's... period
He should have left him in. Saved us all the headache. Saved his fresh young talent for another day.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
I'll grant you this at the least: In hindsight, it shore looks that way
Had I known Wuertz was not available I might have said “yeah, let him start the 7th,” but truthfully given what I knew I thought pulling him after 6 was the right call.
Nico - May 3, 2009
The important difference being what Geren knew that what you thought you knew was not the case.
Geren knew he didn’t have X,Y,Z relievers available yet still pulled his effective starter after 6IP.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
What I think is worth noting is that
had Eveland been LEFT IN to finish the 5th and pitch the 6th on Friday, the A’s still lose Friday’s game but Giese pitches less and is available to bail out Gio in the 13th today. Fans who always want a quick hook on starters at least need to see this.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Can't come up with any specific instances
but Tony LaR used to drive me bananas with the too-quick hook.
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
I agree
realizing he has made a bunch of mistakes as far as his managerial decisions are concerned
Trainman - May 3, 2009
A bunch? Not to offend here, but try like 40 billion!
slkierley - May 3, 2009
Texas just won 5-1
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
NRAF in CT, just got home and saw the thread
It’s getting tougher and tougher to represent out here with these kinds of results…esp. contending w/Red Sox and Yankee fans. Yeah, we’re historically slow starters, but that was when we HAD a rotation and HAD everyday players at most positions. As Alice In Chains said, “It Ain’t Like That Anymore”.
SF Geoff - May 3, 2009
baseball.
we’ll get ’em tomorrow.
Leopold Bloom - May 3, 2009
that's the spirit
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
pantywaist.
Nico - May 3, 2009
lol
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
well, at least you didn't call me a homo.
Leopold Bloom - May 3, 2009
Si, amigo
Joey C. - May 3, 2009
If you want your voice truly heard
look up the story on the A’s website at MLB.com and post your opinion there as well. I just don’t think we can express this totally uncalled for and disappointing loss loud enough.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Personally
Did we throw in the towel or what? He should’ve left Outman in and I should’ve turned the tv off when he took him out. Is this a science project or a baseball team? Disgusting. Outman had a 4-hitter through 6 innings, and his stuff looked great. Then the next thing you know, we’ve got a AAA callup on the mound. WTH??? It would make sense if we were up 2-0 in the series. We need to take each series like it’s the world series. We just lost another one that was a no brainer. How long are those guys going to keep playing hard behind crappy decisions? If it’s a 3 game series, let’s win at least 2, or go down with our best guys trying. We’ve got all the tools. Let’s use them right, or it is gonna be a very long season. Those 100+ pitches by Gio could’ve been thrown in his next start instead of experimenting with fresh talent in a crucial part of the game. We didn’t even have to go to extra innings.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
+1, geren is a monkey. Beane's monkey and a monkey with a half brain at that.
I’m sure he’s a swell guy, but he’s a bad baseball manager. Beane should have never mixed friendship with business.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
"We need to take each series like it's the world series"
Although most of the players would disagree, and argue that if one was to get that “up” for every game, one just would not be able to function through the long grinding season.
However, I think that if Geren managed a little bit more like it were the World Series, it would be good for this club. I’m not talking about using starters in relief (except in very long extra inning games), but sometimes it’s worth extending a guy or using a guy the 3rd day out of 4… This club has so many young pitchers, you can always send someone down and bring someone fresh up from Sacramento the next day.
I know video games aren’t the same, but I definitely run my virtual A’s with what effectively is a 15 man pitching staff. My bottom 3 relievers in MLB and my best 3 relievers in AAA get shuttled up and down ALL THE FRICKIN’ TIME! They practically live on the Capital Corridor train between the Coliseum and Raley Field… If we could just designate 6 young guys with options on the 40 man roster to take up, let’s say… 4 spots with the A’s and 2 with the Cats, and keep ‘em flowing, it won’t matter if reliever X or reliever Y is stuck with the Rivercats for a few extra days if you’re planning to fill 4 positions with 6 guys anyway
Gaijin_Suketto - May 3, 2009
Wow, there it is again.
Geren would be a better manager if only he played more video games. This concepts totally floors me.
iglew - May 4, 2009
I ran my replies to this through several video game simulations, iglew,
and you would not be pleased.
Nico - May 4, 2009
what do you mean, doctor?
Do you endorse the shuttle system?
Gaijin_Suketto - May 4, 2009
The season is still young. In 2006 we didn't start off too well either.
However, what disturbs me is Geren. He has cost us at least 3 games this year. He is a horrible tactician and strategist; horrible. All fans complain about their manager, but man, how long is this clown going to stay around.
Agree with SFBAsportsfan. If bullpen availability is truly a valid concern, why not think about that when Outman is dealing? Just unacceptable and I’ve spent enough time bitching about this. Time to earn some money.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
Geren said Gio Pitched well
and that was his only bad inning. LOL. since it was extras it cost us.
You pitched the poor bastard far too long and he had nothing. Not his fault he had nothing left.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
Just curious - what would have been your reaction
if Eveland had come on with the 3 run lead and had blown it? I’m guessing not too forgiving.
Nico - May 3, 2009
I can't believe I'm defending the actions of a manager I think is pretty clueless
I think this game has officially driven me insane.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Eveland
just got done yesterday. I didn’t expect anything more than what happened, and I don’t think Geren did either.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Exactly. The fact that he put Eveland in
tells me that Geren had no options.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Checkmate...
In the last game of the series? I don’t think so. Is that acceptable? Is that what the A’s are now?
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
You are correct
Trainman - May 3, 2009
Had we not pulled Giambi and Cust
we might not have needed 250 extra innings and pitches thrown. But we will not know.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
I suspect Geren needed to pull Giambi for health reasons
OaklandSi - May 4, 2009
Giambi's a hamstring pull waiting to happen
Gaijin_Suketto - May 4, 2009
Let it get away from him
I don’t like the experimenting, when things are going well.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Will Ziegler be better tomorrow?
Any recent news other than on mlb.com?
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
My theory is that he's been dead for three days,
and the PR department is huddling trying to figure out how to tell us.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Oh Nico what
a ghastly thought. But I am afraid lest Z won’t be back soon.
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
So that means 60 day DL then?
somebodyelse - May 3, 2009
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My God, THAT was funny!
slkierley - May 3, 2009
Oh my God,
THAT WAS FUC*ING FUNNY…
LMAO!!!
slkierley - May 3, 2009
Slusser says
Ziegler is expected to be available for tomorrow night’s game.
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
Wow - the A's PR department is GOOD!
Nico - May 3, 2009
Or just rented "Weekend at Bernie's"
Nico - May 3, 2009
"Folks, I'm not sure,
but it appears 80’s superstar Andrew McCarthy, and some other washed-up has-been are getting up with Ziggy in the bullpen!"
Leopold Bloom - May 3, 2009
I like that Yield sign comment from Gallego
closetasfan - May 4, 2009
True, when you have 12 pitchers on the roster and only 3 can pitch...
it’s not Geren’s fault. Or is it?
Honestly, the expectations for this team have been far too grand from the get go. With a criminally young rotation and Chavez, Nomar, Duke, and even Ellis, on the DL before May can not possibly be considered a surprise. Beane, not Geren, should have predicted this sort of start.
Still, there has been a preposterous amount of base-running, defense, and pitch-placement mistakes that fall all on coaching — er, that is, not good coaching. Geren comes across as a “happy-to-be-here” softball coach. Possibly, just saying, ,maybe that’s why Holliday is clearly just mailing it in this year? I dunno. But it can’t be a good thing when players show up from Sacto (Petit, for example) are clearly the best hitters in the lineup on any given day … suppose he’ll learn how to be an A soon enough.
RiverCats4Ever - May 3, 2009
SOFTBALL COACH - SO AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
Horrible loss!
I agree, expectations were way to high this year. I knew the pitching was really gonna suck this year.
fansince1980 - May 3, 2009
it is amazing that you have a 7 man pen with only 3 guys available
this team rarely if ever has a 25 man roster, it seems like it takes them a week to DL a guy. then they bring guy from sacto like patterson that’s worthless. send him and his warning track power back, bring in another guy. if giese cant go after 10 outs on friday, send him down…we will need fresh arms all year. Russ Springer was effective last year becuase he pitched only 50 innings in 70 games, not the 96 games and 87 innings he is on pace for now. management geren, beane, frost everyone should be responsible. they need to be moving bodies back and forth from AAA, if these young guys are going to average 5+ innings per start.
KCB58 - May 4, 2009
Seriously, let's get a couple of sleeper cars on the Cap Corridor train...
Gaijin_Suketto - May 4, 2009
FIRE MACHA NOW!
danh - May 3, 2009
That scene of showing the pitchers like frantically runnin up to warm up and then sitting down
just goes to show how clueless Geren is. It looked like a circus out in the bulpen watching that scene, it didnt even seem real. I would not have believed it if I hadnt seen it myself.
Time for the Fire Bob Geren Sign to grace the other signs in the bleachers tommorow. It is hard for me to believe that there were NO options in the bullpen. There was not one guy either Bailey or Giese that couldnt pitch 1/2 an inning in an attempt to just not give up 3 runs. That just seems crazy to me….
wacchampions - May 3, 2009
I did see the frantically warming up scene
and I had the same reaction – that looks like a manager who is woefully unprepared.
Nico - May 3, 2009
since I was listening on the radio I missed that
who did you see frantically warming up?
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
Bailey, twice I think
RiverCats4Ever - May 3, 2009
It was Bailey - I only saw it once but it was worrisome
Like, “If he’s available, you just thought of getting him up now?”
Nico - May 3, 2009
Nico, that's what I was saying earlier and you disagreed with me.
If he wanted to figure out if Bailey was available it should have been done before it was too late to use him. Figure it out when it would serve a purpose – not when it’s too late.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
No no - I totally agree with that
I was saying that I understood not using Bailey because he was not even supposed to be available, and that it might have been Bailey who said he couldn’t go once he tried to warm up.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Which is probably what happened - he said he couldnt go.
We agree that if you are gonna get him up to find that out, do it when you can use him instead of when it is too late.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
Yes - the franticness of the getting up is a Geren blunder
Using Gio for the 13th was not – it was because he had no options.
Nico - May 3, 2009
But did he really have no options. His "franticness" indicates otherwise.
Should he have not known he had zero options before the inning began?
Having no options may be a CYA sort of deal at this point.
No options also means that Eveland (while the results were shit) could NOT pitch the 15th. He did pitch the 15th which means he had options.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
If we still had Swisher on board
would you have let him pitch?
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
let's be serious here
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
I'm serious
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
He helped out the Yankees
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
In a game that was already lost.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
Wuetz said he felt fine
Trainman - May 3, 2009
I heard the radio announcers announce that Bailey
was warming up once – that was during the bottom of the 13th inning.
If Bailey could pitch he should have been warming up once the A’s went ahead in the top of the 13th inning. If he couldn’t pitch how is it that Geren had him warming up twice?
This really doesn’t sound right.
OaklandSi - May 3, 2009
Exactly - if Bailey, Wuertz, and Giese were simply not available,
then Geren proceeded in extra innings exactly as he had to. Why two of those were warming up at different times, I don’t get. Them not being put in, I totally get.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Why this team is continually forced to play with a fucking 21 man roster
I don’t get.
mikev - May 3, 2009
because they are so good
They want to give the league a sporting chance.
Future Ed - May 4, 2009
Yeah it doesnt sound right because it isnt right...LOL
If you had seen it you would have wondered what in the heck was going on….It was surreal…
wacchampions - May 3, 2009
I suppose it will be on YouTube
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
it may have only been once...
But, yes, Baily got up it exactly after Gutierrez was walked to make it 7-5. And, seriously, Nico’s right, Geren’s face was as if “My god, people, the bases are loaded, we should do something!”
RiverCats4Ever - May 3, 2009
Yeah, his face spoke volumes. He looked completely lost.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
My recollection is
Bailey was up in the pen during Gutierrez’s at-bat, not after it.
iglew - May 4, 2009
About Bailey getting up twice
I was watching the Mariners broadcast, and this is my impression of what happened with Bailey. I’m not sure if I got this idea based on the announcers’ commentary or just from my own imagination while watching.
We went in to the bottom of the 13th leading 7-4. No one was getting ready in the bullpen, presumably because Geren figured Gio was still just fine and could hold the three-run lead with no problem.
After Gio loaded the bases, we saw Bailey getting ready in the pen. This is the time when he looked frantic and rushed. I assumed that Geren figured, “oh shit, Gio is totally imploding, I need to get someone after all, and quick.” Hence the rush to get Bailey going. He wasn’t in time for Gutierrez, but after Gutierrez walked I fully expected to see Bailey come in for Betancourt.
Bailey did not come in, and Gio stayed in to pitch to Yuni. At this point, I thought, "hmm, I guess Geren changed his mind and decided to stick with Gio after all. Gio then proceeded to give up two more runs tying the game going into the 14th.
Somewhere around this time, Bailey was up again, this time looking not so frantic. I figured that although Geren decided not to use Bailey to finish off the 13th inning, he was still planning to put him in for the 14th. I fully expected to see Bailey then, and I was surprised when Gio was back. Given that Bailey never appeared, I assume it was during this second, non-frantic warm-up that Bailey realized he wouldn’t be able to pitch.
I’m not saying that’s necessarily how it happened, but that’s what I was thinking while I watched it play out.
iglew - May 4, 2009
PLUS ONE MILLION............COMPLETE JOKE.
That is the moment my beliefs were confirmed – Geren is not a big-league manager.
That should be the nail in his coffin.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
O hay guys!
So, did I miss anything today?
mikev - May 3, 2009
You missed the horrible Ducks
beat the Redwings in multiple OT.
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
Damn hockey.
mikev - May 3, 2009
yeah
I’m still mad at you
Kelly - May 3, 2009
What did I do?
mikev - May 3, 2009
{cue up only answer I've ever gotten from a woman:
“You know what you did!”}
Nico - May 3, 2009
Perhaps she's
mad at the Ducks.
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
SO CRYPTIC
mikev - May 3, 2009
Nico is close to right
If you have to ask, I don’t even want to tell you!
Kelly - May 3, 2009
Is it me?
Is it you?
Is it us?
mikev - May 3, 2009
It's... everything
sob
Kelly - May 3, 2009
um.
Hrm.
Can I have a sandwich?
mikev - May 3, 2009
sandwiches are good.
Leopold Bloom - May 3, 2009
Not in this thread
Everyone’s pissed and happily overreacting.
nevermoor - May 4, 2009
Some of us are just pissed
I’m waiting to overreact if they drop the next 2 against the Angels.
Joey C. - May 4, 2009
You're smart like that, Joey.
Don’t overreact til the timing’s just right.
Leopold Bloom - May 4, 2009
{Wink and a finger gun}
Joey C. - May 4, 2009
Zito
threw a 2 hitter today through 7 and the Giant’s won 1-0. Nice to see him coming around pitching around Randy and Tim.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
It looks to me like Zito is dropping down just a tad 3/4 this year,
and that he is gaining a little velocity and a lot of command.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Gerbel, I mean Geren...
I don’t even know where to begin. Seriously. Where do you even begin to place blame at this point? Geren leaving in Gonzalez? Beane trading the whole team away? Lew Wolfe worring about fianances? Beane hiring Geren?
This is just a real shi**y mess we are in . . .
Fire Beane AND especially Geren TODAY!!!!
Fu*k me already and call me sally…
slkierley - May 3, 2009
Seriously
They really need to lose pitch counts when the game is close and the pitcher is doing well.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Ehhhh
I think a lot of pitchers are babied, Gio had thrown a lot of pitches in just a few innings. When you throw pitch counts out of the equation, you have situations like Dan Meyer where pitchers that have all the potential in the world get overworked and become…well… Dan Meyer.
NateHST - May 3, 2009
They certainly forgot about the pitch count
when it came to Gonzalez.
Kevin2 - May 3, 2009
+1
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
What I think the A's need to do right now
is to call up Gallagher, who only pitched 2 innings a couple days ago, or E. Gonzalez, and send down someone like Giese (for at least 10 days), and then be ready to continue this “revolving door of relievers” to make sure they always have enough fresh arms ready every “tomorrow and the next day.” Even if that means at some point calling up Mazzaro for a few days and then sending him down, the A’s can’t keep using their bullpen this way, with 4 guys not available on the same day.
Nico - May 3, 2009
Don't let them fool you
They are ready to go up against the Angels tomorrow. More than likely, he just decided that was more important than winning today.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
I doubt that - when you've invested that many innings
and that many “the game is ours” moments in a game, you do NOT think about tomorrow’s game. This was a big game for both teams by the time the 13th ended. If anything, Geren tried too hard to win this one, getting Bailey up when he wasn’t supposed to (we heard before the game he wasn’t available).
Nico - May 3, 2009
That's what i dont get. Who says these guys can not go?
Giese pitched on Friday. Can’t give one inning today? Let’s lose today when we have the game won so we can get the bullpen ready for tomorrow? WTF is that?
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
You want to win every possible game against anybody in your division.
Period.
NateHST - May 3, 2009
Exactly...
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Then why would we sacrifice today's extremely winnable game
To try to win a game tomorrow than we have no idea how it will go?
NateHST - May 3, 2009
I don't know. That is a great question. You should ask Geren.
33SwisherSweet - May 4, 2009
+1
obviously, Eveland needs to go. And Outman, assuming that today was a fluke, needs to go as well. Add to that the fact that every starter goes 5-6 innings or less, and thus taxes an already overworked bullpen, there will have to be some MLB-AAA juggling of pitchers. And not that many of us are wild about the Crosby 3rd & 1st experiment, this flexibility might allow the A’s to carry the extra pitchers they need to get to…well, wherever the hell it is they’re going.
Kallus - May 3, 2009
Crosby is starting to look good at 3b and better at the plate.
Hannahan is now expendable. Sac Town.
33SwisherSweet - May 3, 2009
Hannahan and Rajai Davis
are a total waste of roster space.
Better off having one other postion player and another reliever especially the way the pen is being worked.
All Davis does this year is not hit, misfield four or five times so far and get CS more than he should.
Hannahan is a good fielder and a God awful waste of batting.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
I disagree about Hannahan
Crosby has let several— not just one, but several— balls get past him just over this past series. That isn’t entirely his fault, but to suggest that he’s anywhere close to the excellent defender that Hannahan seems a little premature to me at this point.
Joey C. - May 3, 2009
I still don't believe Hannahan is an excellent defender.
mikev - May 4, 2009
As always, defensive metrics are up for debate
But many of them seem to like him. I’ll say this: I trust his glove one helluva lot more than I do Crosby’s given how many balls I saw evade the latter, both high and low. Crosby’s arm does seem to be stronger, which would make sense given his natural position is SS.
Joey C. - May 4, 2009
Yeah, but that's the thing
I think his glove is decent enough, but I think he throws like shit. Unfortunately I don’t have any data to back it up, but it just seems like last year there was a hell of a lot of fantastic digs by Barton at 1B that basically saved Hannahan’s ass.
I think the defensive metrics are a bit flawed in this respect.
mikev - May 4, 2009
A fair point
I think I’d rather have a sure glove with some errant throws rather than a guy who makes less stops overall, but that’s certainly a debatable point. Both potentially lead to unnecessary extra bases.
Joey C. - May 4, 2009
I dunno, it just seems like the feeling on Hannahan is
He can’t hit shit, but ZOMFG WHAT A DEFENDER111oen!!!
I just don’t think that’s the case either, UZR be damned.
mikev - May 4, 2009
Gallagher apparently pitched 2 innings today
as well
Trainman - May 3, 2009
He'll help you lose a game or two
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
He'll get better though
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
I'm just going to pretend tonight didn't happen.
Last night’s game was great, right?
somebodyelse - May 3, 2009
My two cents
What the hell is wrong with Springer? Seems like the last 100 pitches he’s thrown are up around the belt and begging to be crushed. He’s horrible right now.
What not DL Ziegler if he’s gonna be sick for a week? Hell, he “may be ready to pitch” tomorrow, but I doubt he’s feeling very good. I’m not blaming Ziggy — if you’re sick, you’re sick — but having him sit out there for no reason doesn’t do us a bit of good. Once he was unavailable for two straight days – and obviously feeling like crap, they shoulda DL’d him.
Hopefully this is the end of the line for Davis — all he was ever good for was baserunning and defense – now his D sucks, too. Release him.
I know it’s impossible to know for sure, but I’m beginning to think Holliday has a “you know, I’m gonna be gone right after the All-Star break anyway … what’s the big deal?” mindset. Sure doesn’t look like he’s playing “for a contract”.
If Eveland can’t throw strikes consistently, why are we surprised he can’t play catch with the second baseman??
I think team meetings are somewhat over-rated, but if there ever was a time for one, this is it. This team is on the verge of total collapse.
Vacafan - May 3, 2009
the problem with that is...
if Zig goes on the DL, that’s a 14 day stint (minus a few if done retroactively). especially the way things are now, that too long to go without him, even if it means a “dead” roster spot for 5-7 day
Kallus - May 3, 2009
Too long to go without Z, or without another pitcher?
I like Ziegler, but he’s not that good. A healthy body at this point is better than a weak, “just gettin’ over the flu” pitcher for a few days. Two weeks would probably do him good, and at least we’d have a healthy arm in the pen.
Vacafan - May 3, 2009
a good point, but who would you call up?
Kallus - May 3, 2009
I have no earthly idea ...
but “runnin’ out of guys” sucks. Seems like that should never happen.
Vacafan - May 3, 2009
I hear ya
even with some struggles, Zig ain’t that bad. And compared with Springer, Giese, and Eveland in relief, Ziggy might as well be Mariano. Well, comparatively speaking
Kallus - May 3, 2009
I don't think you DL Ziggy there, partly because
with the flu you have no idea how quickly he’ll recover. He could have been well enough to pitch Saturday for all the A’s knew. That one is just very bad luck. But they could have sent Giese down after Friday’s game knowing he’d be unavailable over the weekend, called up a fresh arm, and then recalled Giese 10 days later.
Nico - May 4, 2009
At this point
There’s no harm in Ziggy getting an extra 4-5 days to fully recover, which is basically what he would get were he retroactively DLd.
mikev - May 4, 2009
Blevins? Gray?
Anybody who could actually pitch?
mikev - May 3, 2009
Bailey or Wuertz
Pick one and try to pitch them only in save situations.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Sam Diemel
out of tcu hes been lights out
buckfan6 - May 3, 2009
sorry demel
buckfan6 - May 3, 2009
Looks like Bailey is going to close sooner than later
Just DL Ziggy and let him get his strength back and bring up another reliever.
Trainman - May 3, 2009
Don't know
if I can stand any more new pitchers. Zieg looked like hell today, though.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Here's the comments about Bailey being potential closer soon
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/athletics/detail?&entry_id=39526
Trainman - May 3, 2009
Goodnight all. The stroke of 10 and I turn into a
person who has to get ready for work tomorrow
LibrariAN - May 3, 2009
We'll continue complaining in your absence.
somebodyelse - May 3, 2009
is Buck still alive?
9Custs - May 3, 2009
Seriously...
day-to-day - May 3, 2009
Buck was ready on the bench.
If ever Rajai had come up with anyone on base, Buck should have been used as a pinch-hitter. As it turned out, all three times Rajai came up there was nobody on, so there was never a situation where it made sense to use Buck.
(Well, OK, Buck could have pinch-hit for Holliday in the 12th, but you can hardly blame Geren for not daring to do that.)
iglew - May 4, 2009
Explain to me why it makes more sense to wait until there are men on for Buck.
I know there’s some accepted baseball knowledge there, but it makes no sense to me to let an inferior hitter hit simply because the odds for an RBI are significantly less. The odds for an RBI by the man following Rajai/Buck would be equally affected, right?
Leopold Bloom - May 4, 2009
Reasons
(1) Davis-Sweeney is better defense than Sweeney-Buck. (Or at least it supposedly is, though after last night I’m not so sure of that.)
(2) As long as he’s on the bench, Buck could potentially pinch-hit for someone else besides Rajai, should a situation call for it.
(3) Having Buck on the bench means you’re not completely f*cked if some other guy goes down and you need to sub for him.
None of these three is a really huge advantage, but I don’t think cost of the downgrade from Buck to Rajai in one non-leverage situation is really huge either.
I’m certainly not promoting the idea of putting Rajai in. If Geren had left Cust in, I’d have been perfectly happy with it. But I don’t think it was a totally stupid move, either, and I don’t think there was any time at which it was obviously smart to pull him for Buck. If you’d known in the 8th that there were seven more innings in the game, sure, but nobody knew that.
iglew - May 4, 2009
I hope
the players feel the same and take it out on the Angels tomorrow!!! I hate the Angels.
SFBAsportsfan - May 3, 2009
Why are we bringing up starters from the minors instead of relivers
Its diffrent coming out of the pen instead of starting the game on the mound. I played in college and i knew alot of the kids who were starters coming out of the pen would have trouble doing it, it kills there routine and mind set. Dimel kid has looked great give him a shot and throws gas so you can miss spots sometimes and get away with it like tigers did with that ryan perry kid and hes been great.
buckfan6 - May 3, 2009
Just my two cents in the aftermath
I agree with those that say that Geren probably used the pitchers he had available today, so it is tough to blame him for the actual pitching moves. I also agree that the whole running Bailey up so late in the inning to try and rush to see if he could go was bad (if your gonna try it try it early and give him time to actually warm up properly).
The one thing that I have not seen mentioned (not that Geren needs any more things to pile on him lately) is why were Wuertz, Bailey, etc not available? Not just recent overuse, but overuse all season.
We went with a 7 man bullpen because we knew the starters were young and might need more help. Geren, however, played as if we had a 5 man bullpen and ran Wuertz, Casilla, Ziegler, Bailey and Springer into the ground. Blevins only appeared in 2 games before getting sent to AAA on the 19th and Gallagher made only 3 appearances before getting sent down on the 24th. Meanwhile, Springer, Wuertz and even Bailey have looked to be more hittable the last week or so, Casilla ended up on the DL and Ziegler only got time off by getting sick. If Blevins and especially Gallagher had been used properly the first two to three weeks of the season, maybe our top relievers would have been available now. I think the problem has been that Geren has been playing the first 2-3 weeks of the season as if every game is game 7 of the world series — and today, when he needed those guys healthy, he did not have them due to major overuse early on.
AsFanInLA - May 3, 2009
Fair point
It may be that Wuertz and Bailey and Giese could not pitch, or said they weren’t ready to go. And it may be that circumstances of recent days (those pitchers’ too-frequent use, including Giese’s long-relief stint, along with Ziegler’s illness) was just one of those unfortunate things.
But that doesn’t address the weird treatment of Gallagher and Blevins, who either should have been used more often or sent to Sacramento long before they actually were.
The problem right now is that I don’t trust the A’s brass (Beane and Forst, Geren) to make sensible decisions. I can live with bad outcomes if I believe the guys in charge are making reasonable choices, but I have doubts – in part because of the Gallagher/Blevins nonsense.
So when Bailey is rushing around to get ready in the 13th as the Mariners’ rally starts, I see red. I assume incompetence and after-the-fact ass-covering. That may be me being an emotional fan after a crappy loss. But I think a manager needs to know who can pitch before the crisis starts, not in the middle of it. And if ptichers are unavailable, they should never warm up at all.
bear88 - May 4, 2009
Very well put bear 88. Paragraphs 3 and 4 hit the nail on its head.
33SwisherSweet - May 4, 2009
Aside from Bailey
the pitchers aren’t overused. Look at other teams that have winning records. You have to use your bullpen to win games. Geren just wanted to test out his new arm (Cameron). He just should’ve waited another inning (or another day) before doing so. Add Springer to that and it cost us the game. He wasn’t going to put in Wuertz or Bailey in extra innings. He just decided to throw in Gio and see where the chips fell. It just took too long. Believe me, they are all primed to face the Angels. I just wish this one wouldn’t have slipped away.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
I think it's unfair to criticize Geren for pulling Outman,
because before the game I heard Outman was on a 90-pitch limit and that makes sense considering he had made only two 1-inning relief appearances in two weeks. Outman was at 86 pitches.
Nico - May 4, 2009
This season has been Maddening!!
The A’s could be 6-0 vs the Mariners, or at the absolute worst, 4-2. All 3 games in Oakland were there to be had. 14 LOB in the first game (5-4 loss), 9 more in game 2 with a bullpen blown save (7-5 loss). A 1-0 loss in game 3 when Cahill almost throws a no-no. A blown save by Springer in game 4 (8-7 loss). And today’s disaster. Up 7-4 in the 13th and they still lose? Throw in the 1-0 loss to Toronto and the 14 inning loss to the Yanks, the A’s could be looking at a 16-6 record had they won all those games. I know that is the absolute best case scenario, but that just shows how close the A’s have been this year. They should be .500 at worst, but such is the cruel world of baseball. Close doesn’t cut it. I just hope this isn’t one of those years where they put together a good streak in July/Aug/Sep, only to have all of these brutal losses in April/May keep them from making the post-season.
a'sfaninsd - May 3, 2009
Sigh
I’m just depressed now. Its 3am here. Why aren’t I sleeping yet. Damn Mariners.
Wiers103 - May 3, 2009
I blame everything on F.P. Santangelo
Him and his crazy blinking eyes
RMac - May 4, 2009
+1
That’s why I call him Blinky. The funniest part is as soon as his mouth opens his eyes stay open, but when he shuts up he starts blinking like crazy…
jakebmill - May 4, 2009
yeah, and FP only used the juice once.......LAUGHABLE
33SwisherSweet - May 4, 2009
LOL!
Haha that is so the case… Maybe he wouldnt have booted that ball at second back in the ’01 playoffs if he wasnt blinking so damn much
RMac - May 4, 2009
I'm still stewing...
Is Geren STILL the manager? It’s after midnight and I’m hoping that he has been fired by now…
No such luck I’m thinking…
Thanks Billy Beane. i used to be a big fan of yours…
slkierley - May 4, 2009
This threat is ridiculous
I’m pretty shocked at how much negativity there is towards Billy. An 9-13 start doesn’t warrant the firing of a gm who has had so much success.
travdog6 - May 4, 2009
+1
People venting, is all. Still…
Joey C. - May 4, 2009
Beane doesn't deserve to be fired,
but I really wish he would give up his soccer hobby and run the team himself. Forst is not a genius. He’s not an idiot, but he’s not a genius either. We want our genius back.
Gaijin_Suketto - May 4, 2009
I think most of the screaming on this thread
is overreaction after a crappy game.
But one thing I do agree on: It’s time to end the Rajai Davis experiment. I was OK with starting the season with him on the roster. Since he was the one with no options left it was reasonable to give him a chance to prove himself.
But it’s May now, and he hasn’t proven anything. I say next time we need a roster spot, cut him loose. Sweeney is looking great defensively in CF. Buck needs more playing time. If we really need a 5th outfielder or pinch-runner, there’s Patterson. Petit should be starting at 2B anyway.
iglew - May 4, 2009
Especially considering the team's futility against LHP,
and the fact that Denorfia languishes away in Sacramento.
Nico - May 4, 2009
Bingo.
I wanted to like Rajai, but a fast guy who can’t run the bases, and a defensive replacement who can’t judge fly balls is of no use to the team.
The other thing I might do, although I’m not aware of the options implications, is demote Eveland to send a message that professional baseball players hafta use their heads. Summing Friday night and Sunday, he’s lost me. Can Gallagher be worse? Mazzaro?
The Dogfather - May 4, 2009
Yes, they can be worse
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
I'm all for an Eveland demotion and Davis DFAing
but how many options does Eveland have left?
franks a lot - May 4, 2009
Billy Beane's Plan
Buck hasn’t worked out. Barton hasn’t worked out. Gallagher hasn’t worked out. Eveland hasn’t worked out. Gio hasn’t worked out. Cahill isn’t ready. Pennington hasn’t worked out. Duchsherer is injured. Chavez is injured. Nomar is injured. Ellis couldn’t hit before he was injured. Rajai Davis is awful. The jury’s out on Giambi. Devine is injured. The team can’t bunt and can’t run the bases. Patterson is awful.
So what do we have: A first-class bullpen that will burn itself out if pitchers can’t get into the sixth or seventh inning. One superstar who’ll come alive this month or next in Matt Holliday. One budding superstar in Kurt Suzuki. One solid outfielder in Ryan Sweeney. A quality one-year shortstop.
This is not a good team. The joke about the end of Battlestar Galactica is that the cylons had a better plan than Ronald Moore. It looks like they also had a better plan than Billy Beane.
richwol1 - May 4, 2009
ahhh, i got this green sweatshirt back in 05?
and it says on the back “in billy we trust”. Salvation Army.
ak_A - May 4, 2009
Ouch...
ya i cont say that with a straight face these days…
RMac - May 4, 2009
I dislike Russ Springer a lot...
that’s all I have to say
mills16 - May 4, 2009
I like Springer,
but I dislike how Geren’s been using him…
Gaijin_Suketto - May 4, 2009
question
do you guys think Swooney would have gotten to that last pop up? I just saw a replay this morning and it looked like Rajai did screw up on it
closetasfan - May 4, 2009
Davis misplayed that ball terribly...
mills16 - May 4, 2009
I've only seen the play a couple of times
Davis initially broke back and then realized the ball was going to be in front of him. For all that so called blazing speed of his combined with the fact that he was playing in, he STILL failed to get remotely close to where the ball dropped in. It’s almost as if he was running in mud/gave up on catching the ball.
I say cut the guy loose. He’s redeeming qualities as a good outfielder and basestealer has been rather suspect this year. And with the bat, Davis is Cliff Pennington-lite, which is not saying much.
franks a lot - May 4, 2009
At the very least, he should have charged it hard to the end
taken it on one hop and come up firing to the plate as hard as he could. The runner was back to tag and there was a force at the plate. It’s unlikely, but not inconceivable, that Rajai could actually have thrown the runner out at the plate.
Nico - May 4, 2009
Of course he would
Swooney is all powerful. He can do anything.
iglew - May 4, 2009
even very good centerfielders will mess up sometimes
so it’s hard to say.
The defensive substitution of Hannahan for Giambi (essentially, since Crosby moved over to first) in the ninth was quite possibly health related. Taking Cust out, moving Sweeney to RF and Davis to CF also made sense — if you’re expecting that Springer would not give up the tying run. Perhaps that was over optimistic considering the possible cumulative effects of heavy pen usage in recent weeks.
Davis also started the scoring in the top of the 13th by walking, stealing second and forcing a poor throw. The Seattle pitchers’ preoccupation with Davis on base may have also helped Crosby to get on base and Powell to get a pitch to line down the first base line. Had Gio not been out of gas to pitch the bottom of the third — or had there been another reliever who could have come in when Gio’s situation became obvious — it wouldn’t have seemed so problematic that Geren took Cust out for defense in the ninth inning.
OaklandSi - May 4, 2009
Lookout Landing poster here.
Over on LL, one of our resident photoshoppers, feeling sorry for Gio Gonzalez and the abuse he was put through, came up with a picture representing the A’s projected usage plan for him:
Take with our best wishes. As much as we were thrilled to pull this game out, it’s easy at the same time to realize what a massive kick in the nuts it must be to be on the other side. And I don’t take any pleasure in all y’alls pain. (After all, you’re not Halos fans.)
esoteric - May 4, 2009
that looks eerily like Mike Sweeney
coffee roaster - May 4, 2009
I appreciate the sentiment
But man, is that disturbing.
Joey C. - May 4, 2009
So Mariners fans hate Angels fans too.
Good to know.
Leopold Bloom - May 4, 2009
that's a horrible image...not a fan.
mrod - May 4, 2009
Agreed. It creeps me out.
Icky and not very tasteful.
iglew - May 4, 2009
Despite all
the questionable moves and lack of execution this loss boils down to one play. The mental error by Hanahan in the 13th inning. The A’s are up by two runs with one out and the bases loaded for Seattle. A double play would secure the win for the A’s. A soft grounder was hit to Hanahan who fields the ball well in front of third base – with the runner only halfway down the third line base and the entire play wide open in front of him Hanahan inexplicably turns and throws the ball to second base to try for the 5-4-3 double play? Of course the A’s didn’t have a chance at that DP. Why he didn’t throw home for the 5-2-3 double play is beyond me. It was right there for the taking and he absolutely blew it. Mental errors are unacceptable and this one cost us the game.
jdub69 - May 4, 2009
I wondered about that
I am radio only because of my cable package. Neither Ken nor Vince mentioned it. I just figured he played it too far back? that wasn’t the case?
Future Ed - May 4, 2009
I thought Hannahan made a great play
It was going to be close at the plate, there was absolutely no chance of a DP, he could easily have hit the runner, and what he did was to keep the tying run on base and the winning run at first. Best he could do without risking getting nobody.
Nico - May 4, 2009
I agree
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
Actually,
if you look at the replay, Hannahan was far to the left of the third base bag when he fielded the ball. The runner wasn’t quite halfway down the third base line yet when he had it. There was absolutely no danger of hitting the runner by throwing the ball home and he would’ve got him easily. The question then is would Suzuki have been able to turn the double-play by then throwing to first base? Upon further review maybe not as the ball wasn’t hit that sharply – but maybe. Suzuki definitely would’ve had a better chance of turning the DP than Petit as the runner was on top of him at second base by the time he got the ball and he had no chance to even get a throw off to first.
Even if Suzuki didn’t turn the double play we would’ve been left with the bases loaded, two outs, and the tying run on second base instead of third. The base hit to shallow center that followed would’ve only scored one run and we still would’ve been up by a run with two outs. Instead what happened is the base hit that followed tied the game.
To sum up – Hannahan should’ve thrown home on that play.
jdub69 - May 4, 2009
To each his own opinion - I say get an out
where you feel sure you can get one. If that was second, I have no issue with the decision. And either way if you get the next guy out, you win.
Nico - May 4, 2009
But if you get the right guy out (in this case the lead runner). and you don't get the next guy out, you still have another chance to win in that inning by getting the following batter out (which they did).
jdub69 - May 4, 2009
Well, my point is it comes down to where he had the best chance
for a sure out, and he felt second. Maybe he had a better play at home than he realized but I’m just glad he made sure to get an out (and didn’t allow the winning run to get into scoring position).
Nico - May 4, 2009
I didn't see the play
But wasn’t it a rather weakly hit ball?
Seems as if the 3B is charging a ball hit weakly to him, it’ll be easier to throw home than to spin and throw to second.
mikev - May 4, 2009
It wasn't hit hard, meaning no chance for a DP,
and it was towards SS, meaning he was moving to his left (towards second) but also charging it a bit (towards home). He flipped it behind him to second instead of a somewhat awkward but doable “open spin” towards home.
Nico - May 4, 2009
I'd still lean toward "prevent the run" if it was an iffy, tweener kinda play.
mikev - May 4, 2009
I lean towards "get an out for SURE"
Especially when the run scoring is a meaningless run.
Nico - May 4, 2009
They were both sure outs.
Second base and home base. In that case you throw home and save the run.
jdub69 - May 4, 2009
Only Jack Hannahan knows what HE was sure was an out
Given what he thought in the split-second he had to decide, I’m just glad he endeavored to get an out instead of hurriedly trying to start a DP or making a throw he was unsure about making.
Nico - May 4, 2009
True (only Jack knows).
All I’m saying is that you got to know (beforehand) what you’re going to do with the ball if it comes to you. If the runner is only halfway to the plate when you get the softly hit ball and you’re playing third base – you half to go home with it. This is why it was a mental error.
Worst case scenario: two outs now, bases still loaded, tying run on SECOND base (not third), winning run still on first base (just as it was after he threw to second base instead of home for the out).
Best case scenario: 5-2-3 double play and game over – A’s victory.
jdub69 - May 4, 2009
On the TV feed Fosse mentioned it immediately.
Should’ve gone to the plate.
jdub69 - May 4, 2009
I think
Geren must believe in luck or something to that nature. When he’s winning he feels like nothing can go wrong and starts wanting to give everyone playtime instead of realizing the guys that are on the field are actually holding the other team down. Macha used do to that crap.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
It's the same
thing he did against the Red Sox game 3 against Wakefield, except he chose the B-lineup to start the game. The Red Sox appreciated that, and the Mariners appreciated him removing Outman early enough for them to come back, yesterday. As fans, we want the best players in there for each situation. As a manager, he needs to be looking at pitcher-batter lefty-righty matchups and sticking with what works and lining up relievers that compliment that particular starter. I hope it pays off (resting those guys) against the Angels. Now we have to win 2 instead of 1 and hope we wore out Seattle’s bullpen enough so they lose their next few games.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
The long ride home from Seattle
Hi all! I got to see the suckfest in person yesterday. I also caught most of Saturday night’s game. Some observations: Outman looked great. Gio looked great. Eveland needs to be DFA’d, as does Davis. Call up Denorfia and give Gio Eveland’s spot in the rotation. Travis Buck needs to play more. Petit looked great, too. Seattle is an amazing city! Let’s hope for a good 8 innings from Anderson tonight and a rest for the pen! Oh, and the drive from Seattle to Portland is incredibly long and boring!
A'sfansince1970 - May 4, 2009
The drive from Portland to the Bay Area is even worse
Hopefully the A’s could drop Eveland off in Sacramento on the way back down from Seattle.
franks a lot - May 4, 2009
That's a great idea!
Davis, too. Or just drop Davis at a rest stop somewhere, since he’s out of options. I think Buck, Deno, anybody could have made that catch! Disgusting way to lose.
A'sfansince1970 - May 4, 2009
I think a Dino could have made that catch
any dinosaur
Future Ed - May 4, 2009
I hope he has a parachute
Future Ed - May 4, 2009
Those baggy pants he wears during games should offer enough wind resistance
franks a lot - May 4, 2009
The drive from Seattle to Portland
is either boring or long but not both, depending on whether you’re on I-5 or the backroads.
iglew - May 4, 2009
I'd like to know
what is so impressive about Gio to make him a starter. Was it his 1-4 record from last year? Or his ERA… over 7??? Maybe you all see something I don’t.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
Or was it
his 3 runs he gave up in his fourth inning pitching? Or maybe his 100+ pitches in 5?
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
He had been on a pitch count in sacto
I think the most he thew was 80. Getting to 100 was over use. He will be fine.
Future Ed - May 4, 2009
Isn't that
the same problem Eveland is having?
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
Eveland's problem is he's a knucklehead.
The Dogfather - May 4, 2009
And....
there are a lot of knuckleheads in baseball. At least he went 9-9 last year with a 4.34 era in 29 starts… and 1 complete game. That should be good for a 4th or 5th starter. Maybe we should consider that a winning record seeing the outcome of the season.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
It's not last year any more
and W-L is a terrible statistic to use to analyze a pitcher
travdog6 - May 4, 2009
You are right
He prolly would’ve have won more games if last year’s decision making resembles what is going on now.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
I didn't say 'give-up' on Eveland (Davis? You bet).
I said get his attention — which, you may recall, they did last year and it helped. There seems to be an inordinate amount of head knucklage there, through which they’ll have to get.
The Dogfather - May 4, 2009
Aye
And as far as Davis goes… We are capable of winning these games. There is no need to change anything. The current roster moves have proven effective. Bullpen decisions and misuse of the hook is IMHO the reason for the losses since the moves were made. He shouldn’t have played at all yesterday.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
Can't get past the 5th inning
without throwing his arm out.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
He looked amazing yesterday
First pitch strikes all the way, really fooling Mariner batters until the 13th. I don’t think he would do any worse than Eveland, probably better. He just looked ready yesterday.
A'sfansince1970 - May 4, 2009
Amazing
If that was amazing, Outman was Phenomenal. 86 pitches through 6 innings and the door hit him on the way out.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
I just think
those numbers spell reliever for a while at least.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
He should've just loaded the bases
and let them hit a grand slam. Go out with a little style like Joe Blanton. I don’t know how many times he loaded the bases up, went 3 and 0 on the hitter, and then started dealing. I used to think he did that on purpose as an incentive or preview of what’s to come if the A’s didn’t score next inning…lol.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
A couple of comments after yesterday's debacle
Since Ziegler was still sick, what was he doing at the game at all? They showed him sitting
there looking pale, cold, and miserable. And why not use Wuertz, either in the 9th to try
for the save or at least the 13th? Geren’s excuse was that he had pitched in 2 or the
3 previous days. BIG DEAL! He has only thrown 13 innings this year in 22 games.
You can only baby these guys so much. This is the BIG Leagues! You HAVE to win these
types of games. Geren I think was trying to rest Weurtz and Bailey for the Angels.
You can’t do that.. you need to win the game at hand first.
SanJoseR - May 4, 2009
Agree - win the game that is 3 outs away from being won as opposed to taking
your chances with a rested bullpen for the next series.
33SwisherSweet - May 4, 2009
That's the one thing that really puzzles me
I’m all for not pitching a guy if he shouldn’t be available, and I do NOT want Wuertz going on the DL. But pitching two days in a row and then having a day off, and you need another day off? I assumed he was available and I’m surprised if he wasn’t – to where I wonder if he is feeling some elbow/shoulder tenderness that isn’t being shared with us.
Nico - May 4, 2009
It would sure be nice
to hear Geren take some ownership of these losses. That would be much more noble to hear him talk about things he’s going to do different than sticking behind his moves.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
I don't think
Geren thinks the A’s are good enough to win like we do and he just does enough to help prove his point. It is early. I hope that changes.
SFBAsportsfan - May 4, 2009
aarggh
I just want Gio in the rotation…is that too much to ask?
FIRE GEREN. DUDE IS A CHUMP EXTRAORDINAIRE.
Glad we ran Macha out of town after winning records year after year and going to the ALCS.
Billy Frijoles - May 4, 2009
See I think this may be an avenue towards getting Gio in the rotation
IMO, he should pitch for Sacramento in 5 days and then for Oakland in 10 days. Meanwhile, the A’s have fresh arms available this week while Gio isn’t available anyway.
Nico - May 4, 2009
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