They lost 13-4, what more do you want? Now on to some random questions:
* In evaluating the talent Oakland intends to build around, from Sean Gallagher and Gio Gonzalez, to Travis Buck, Ryan Sweeney, and Daric Barton, have the A's:
a. made great assessments and gotten very unlucky?
b. made poor assessments that are explained by ___ failure to evaluate young talent?
c. gotten it right, as will be proven not now but soon?
* Why do hitters take batting practice against 70MPH fastballs, when hitting is so much about timing and 70MPH fastballs are not what they will be seeing in the game? Why wouldn't it be more helpful to have BP pitchers stand closer and throw 90MPH fastballs?
* If the A's decided, today, to trade for a "major league ready" young 3Bman - say a Chase Headley or an Ian Stewart - and the two players not for consideration were Cahill and Anderson, what do you think it would reasonably take to get them in return, and would it be worth it?
* Can the Rangers hang in there all season and make a real run at this weak AL West, and will the Blue Jays hang in there all season and make a real run at the AL East? Or are they placeholders for the Angels and "AL East Big Three" that were supposed to be there in the end?
Chat away - it's more fun than thinking about the last four games!
0 recs | 316 comments
I was curious to see what you'd do with the wrap
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
Zombies!
You had to know that was coming.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
LOL - it's actually not my "day"
but I think there was some internal confusion. So I thought I’d at least get something up. And yes, T’s exactly W I S.
Nico - May 18, 2009
Thanks Nico.
Have I thanked you lately, because, well, thanks.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
Hope rock bottom comes some time soon.
ElQuesoCapitan - May 18, 2009
Rock bottom will only be reached the day before Geren is fired.
He is a joke – he’s got to go.
33SwisherSweet - May 18, 2009
I honestly think that "Joke"
is too nice of a word to describe him.
ElQuesoCapitan - May 18, 2009
Lexi could do a better job of managing the A’s than Bob Geren.
Rated-R Superstar - May 18, 2009
Obviously, the team has greater problems than Geren, but the other problems are not as easily
solved. Firing Geren is a small step in the right direction.
33SwisherSweet - May 18, 2009
who replaces geren?
stm72 - May 18, 2009
For interim, I think Tony D is an obvious candidate
He could be plugged in right now while the organization proceeds with a more thorough search.
iglew - May 18, 2009
that seems like more of the same to me, but i get that change is needed...
just wish that we had a better choice
stm72 - May 18, 2009
I figure him as a placeholder.
If the point is to fire Geren now and also to replace him with someone good, it’s problematic to do both at once. You need some time to scout out candidates, but you also need someone to run the team temporarily while you look. That’s Tony.
iglew - May 18, 2009
çall Bobby Valentine and get him on the first flight out of Japan!
mrod - May 19, 2009
if the Rangers are doing well by mid-season
I can see them acquiring more pitching. We all know Sheets would likely be interested if they’re still doing well when he’s healthy. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see them trade for a rental or two, especially since they have a strong minor league system.
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
Honestly, since the A's are toast I'd just as soon see the Rangers take it
“Anyone but the Angels,” plus I really like and respect Ron Washington.
Nico - May 18, 2009
yup
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
Something about the Rangers has always put me off, but...
…I’d support them for Washington’s sake as I really like him.
UncleLeo - May 18, 2009
The roving reporter?
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
Their evil ex-owner...
…Eddie Chiles was a doofus…
The guy after him wasn’t real great, either…
Gaijin_Suketto - May 18, 2009
Yes, I would like to see the Rangers and Wash go all the way this year if not us
Eastbayjim - May 18, 2009
The Rangers are 2nd in the AL and 4th in MLB...
in Defensive Efficiency to this point. That team can hit and now they’re good defensively. Is it a coincidence that the Rangers are getting better at fielding and Oakland is falling off a cliff since Washington took the Texas managerial job? I think not.
If they upgrade their pitching at the ASB, they’ll give the Angels all they can handle.
Meanwhile, the A’s will be celebrating their new “prospects” obtained in the Holliday trade at the All Star break.
FoolshGame22 - May 18, 2009
Agree on Wash and . . .
. . . feel the same way about Wakamatsu (though don’t know as much about him). Wouldn’t be surprised one little bit to see Seattle become a VERY solid club in the next couple of years once Wakamatsu’s presence takes hold. It takes time for a new manager’s presence to be fully integrated and then expressed by an organization (whether it be a baseball club or a Fortune 500 company).
camperdog - May 18, 2009
Word.
The Rangers are totally legit and nothing really impresses me about the Angles line-up these days. You know things are bad for A’s Nation when we’re weighing the qualities of the Angels and Rangers. EFF!
ErikFanClubPres - May 18, 2009
I would say somewhere between A and B
Athletic - May 18, 2009
me too, a/b
getting lucky alone cannot be considered good planning
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
I'm asking because I'm genuinely confused
Talent evaluation has been a real strength in the past. I’ve been a consistent Gallagher believer from the git go, but let’s face it – the velocity we saw his very first start for the A’s has never really returned, his fastball seems like it’s getting straighter, and his work ethic / attitude is a big ? because obviously something happened in Spring Training. Buck is as enigmatic as they come, and I personally feel the A’s have totally missed the boat on Sweeney, but we’ll see. Gio was supposed to be young, unpolished, and a bit wild, so no big issues there.
Nico - May 18, 2009
I'm curious as to who is on the scouting team
and how much turnover there has been in the past 10 years — especially the past 5 years
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
I would love to see the Rangers take it somehow
Their hitters are so superior to ours.
Their hitting coach is the best in the business by a mile (IMO)
I like Wash
They show like they want to win unlike the corpses on our team
Trainman - May 18, 2009
Kill the body and the head will die...
…and vice versa….
But the Rangers have a good body, and it looks like Wash and Mr. Ryan are a good couple of heads…
Gaijin_Suketto - May 18, 2009
Nico, the obvious trading pieces are Holliday and Cabrera with an optional Giambi and Nomar
Lets let the young guys place and even if they lose it will be fun watching them grow.
BTW Loved this and your last post. Very right on.
I also think C is the answer to your question above. I think they need to grow a bit. Let them have fun like the A’s of the late 90s did.
Eastbayjim - May 18, 2009
Thanks, Eastbayjim
I was actually looking at it a lot differently than Holliday/Cabrera, just because the teams with 3Bmen that might be answers for Oakland are not contenders. San Diego should be looking for good young talent – like Mazzaro, like Buck or Sweeney, and kind of the same with Colorado.
Crazy thought: Yes Barton’s value is low, but with Helton on his way out isn’t Barton just the kind of hitter who could flourish at Coors – a guy whose line drive stroke could make him a doubles machine instead of a singles machine? Same with Ryan Sweeney or Travis Buck. Mazzaro, as a sinkerballer, would be dreamy there. Must be something from among those guys that could yield Ian Stewart, no?
Nico - May 18, 2009
Buan is seriously promoting Mazzaro for a callup soon
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
I am very hesitant to trade any more youngsters
Since we are very close to proclaiming Buck and Barton busts. Sweeney could be on his way if he doesn’t improve on defense and offense. What happens if we trade Mazzaro and then Anderson busts and Cahill isn’t as dominant as we envisioned. I am not feeling very confident with our development strategy lately but I’m sure that has to do 100% with the product on the field at the moment. If we were over .500 I’d be saying Beane’s a genius and our farm system can’t fail.
Helloooo 1st - May 18, 2009
Ah but the ball doesn't break as much up there so a
sinkerballer becomes a fastball pitcher.
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
True, but I wonder if that applies to sinkers as much as sliders and splitters
Aaron Cook has been very successful there.
Nico - May 18, 2009
wasn't mazzaro's worst start of the year in colorado? just sayin'...
stm72 - May 18, 2009
A sinkerball
breaks because it spins less. The straight backspin on a four-seam fastball are what make it look straight. So actually fastball pitchers would become sinkerballers in Coors, in a manner of speaking.
dscel - May 19, 2009
The Brewers are a team I was thinking about or even Atlanta
I know the Brewers have a couple guys we were all drooling about in the offseason posts but not sure what Atlanta has.
Eastbayjim - May 18, 2009
Are there enough slumpbusters to work for this team?
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
that's a nice abstract question...
here’s another one…
What is a slumpbuster?
Gaijin_Suketto - May 18, 2009
This
Among other brief explanations:
http://www.doubletongued.org/index.php/dictionary/slump_buster/
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
hmm...
still processing…
processing…
processing…
(two minutes later)
processing…
Okay, I think I’ve got it.
Bangin’ old road dogs isn’t gonna be enough to get this job done. I’m thinkin’ we need some Brazilian trannies. If that doesn’t shame ‘em into winnin’ a game or three, I don’t know what will…
Gaijin_Suketto - May 18, 2009
Deep in the annals of AN history
David Wells was known as a slump buster
jeepers - May 18, 2009
And, omigosh!
Can we have the Jays and Rangers? That would be awesome!
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
re: batting practice
Before games, it’s mainly to put on a show for the fans and get warmed up for the game. I’m sure teams take cuts against faster pitches in the indoor cages.
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
true
but also its about confidence and working on swing mechanics…If your hitting 70-80mph easy to hit fastballs you are able to get confidence and work on your swing whereas if you are facing 90+ you are not gaining any confidence nor are you able to focus on your mechanics of the swing cuz you need to worry about just hitting it.
yawedout21 - May 18, 2009
You don't warm up for a sprint by first sprinting
You start slower, don’t burn all your energy.
Not sure if this translates to batting tho.
MobiusKlein - May 19, 2009
also
most teams don’t have BP pitchers who throw 90. They cheat by throwing from the front of the mound. It’s similar to the idea behind Little League pitch equivalencies. You know when they say “this kid’s fastball equates to a 90 MPH major league fastball?” He’s obviously not throwing 90, but when thrown from only 46 feet away, it gets to the plate sooner.
scatterbrian - May 19, 2009
Grooving the Swing
Just from a little league coach’s perspective, when I’m throwing BP in the cage with my players I’m trying to fix a mechanical issue. Each of my players has at least one bugaboo in their swing that they need to fight to correct, whether it’s keeping their head on the ball, or keeping their weight back or going to the opposite field on the outside pitch, or finishing their swing high.
Most good batters can accelerate their bat speed if they need to. (If every pitch was straight and 98 mph and in the same place a major league hitter would be able to adjust and hit it hard.) But you can’t fix them rolling over their top hand at full speed. You’re retraining reflexes and muscle memory. Also, it’s mentally exhausting to bring that focus to bear on full speed pitching.
DavidS - May 20, 2009
I just don't know...
Sweeney isn’t good and probably will never be. Buck could be, but doesn’t look like he even has a clue. (sidebar – how many times is he going to take strike one with the fake bunt?) Gio and Gallagher give up way too many hits to go with their control problems.
We’re not even sure we hit on Cahill and Anderson.
Barton looks more and more like a bust.
brenarlo - May 18, 2009
I'd say Barton's a bust
Or at the very least he won’t find his stroke for the A’s. I could see him having a Pena-type revival some where else but I doubt he’ll get another serious chance with the A’s or if he’ll even earn it.
Helloooo 1st - May 18, 2009
See my post above re: Colorado. ???
Nico - May 18, 2009
how about we sprinkle some magic dust on him
so he gets his september swing for every other month not named september.
ElQuesoCapitan - May 18, 2009
He's what, 23? Jeez.
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
Carlos Pena was that bust six, seven years ago.
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
As I've said elsewhere,
it doesn’t hurt us to keep him and he still has immense potential. Keep him around.
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
Oh I'm all for keeping him around
I really just don’t him being able to hit at all in the majors and I think his psyche’s a bit fragile because he didn’t handle the transition well from AAA—>MLB—>AAA
Helloooo 1st - May 19, 2009
Melissa Lockard says Barton has been trying to hard to
pull and lift everything — to hit HRs. Lately, according to her he’s been connecting more for line drives adn his AVE is creeping up.
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
That's what he did all last season for some unknown reason.
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
taking to heart all that talk about needing to hit HRs
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
Yep. Idiot.
What’s the saying, ‘Dance with the girl that brought you there’?
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
he tried to dump her for the stuck up hottie
now he’s wishing he could get the other one back
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people were telling him he'd need to hit more homers...
…to be a worthwhile corner infielder.
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
Oh yeah, definately, you'd just think he'd know his game enough
to know that he can’t – otherwise why hasn’t he done it against lesser competition?
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
link anywhere?
closetasfan - May 19, 2009
Well, that sucked.
Nothing I enjoy more than getting mocked by FUCKING RAYS FANS for nine innings.
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
Was there cowbell?
You should have taken a cowbell from someone and went around beating people with it.
ElQuesoCapitan - May 18, 2009
Cap'n, there was so much cowbell where I was, I wanted to start swinging.
they seem to actively make it as loud as is humanly possible and not do permanent damage.
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
Crowbar counters cowbell
Keep that in mind!
ElQuesoCapitan - May 18, 2009
I can't convince the security people in the front
of the legitimacy of the “rally crowbar”
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
Rally "Monkey"
Monkey’s spine just happens to be a crowbar.
Gallagher's Watermelons - May 18, 2009
I'm sure they think they're hot shit with their one "AL Champs" banner
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
It was sad before with just Wade Boggs number retired.
so I don’t begrudge their banner.
But our team just looked absolutely pathetic. It was so depressing.
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
even the Heckler?
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
And just so you know, somebody asked if that was you.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
me? or Leopold?
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
Leopold.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
He was not too awfully loud tonight.
I tell what was depressing was how many catcalls of “steroids” came out when Giambi batted. They have no love for the Yankees or the Red Sox here, so it may be AL East specific, but I started feeling very sad for JG if he gets this everywhere he goes.
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
Well, just so you know,
I did defend you.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
Yay!
I like being defended, especially after such a pathetic display.
BTW, I was not alone. Not by a long shot. It was impressive how many NRAF’s were there. I just wish the A’s would’ve shown up.
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
That is awesome!
It is too bad that the team didn’t show up as well, baby.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
But you're our NRAF in Tampa.
Represent!
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
I did.
And I will.
But it ain’t easy.
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
I know, and I'm sorry.
I hoped for better, we all did.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
I do too, mainly because he's too shitty to
silence them with his play anymore.
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
Yeah.
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
For those of you that don't quite understand that,
it’s like getting mocked by the scads of Angels fans in 2003.
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
Sorry babe.
We thought about you though.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
It just seemed not to end...
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
Yeah.
I’ve been lucky enough not to see that. We just have to continue on and hope for the best.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
That's Devil Ray fans.
You can’t just go changing your name.
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
we mocked you here, too
stormtown - May 18, 2009
That, I expect and appreciate.
At least you’re in the same boat as I am.
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
the Titanic?
stormtown - May 18, 2009
Exactly.
Leopold Bloom - May 18, 2009
doctorK - May 18, 2009
I love this.
pam5981 - May 18, 2009
How'd you do?
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
Good lord
I thought it’d be horrible not being able to watch the A’s for the first couple months of the season. But not I’m dreading having the option of watching when I get home in a couple days. It’s funny because usually you expect a team to stop getting pounded after a meeting. I guess it’s time for the starters to hold a meeting but who’s going to lead it? It can’t be fun to be the laughing stock of the league so I’m guessing the players are pretty upset by now.
Helloooo 1st - May 18, 2009
Pitchers have lasted what... 12 innings in the last 4 games?
brenarlo - May 18, 2009
I wish there was a mercy rule
Helloooo 1st - May 18, 2009
We'd exercise it too often.
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
Great points Nico. There are no quickfixes.
1. There are always going to be busts. The A’s need to give Buck and Sweeney all this year to find out if they are part of the future.
2. The A’s have to use Holliday to get that young 3b. They can’t part with Cahill, Mazzaro or Anderson. They will need all of them to make a good rotation.
3.Texas can win the A.L. West.
Tbone 1 - May 18, 2009
Everyone just needs to look at the bright side
I hear Jordin Sparks is doing a post-game concert next month.
EastVillageA - May 18, 2009
Who, or what, is Jordin Sparks?
doctorK - May 18, 2009
Phillippi Sparks' daughter
stormtown - May 18, 2009
Did somebody say
Sparks?
Gaijin_Suketto - May 18, 2009
good.... i thought of those two also
ak_A - May 19, 2009
I've got angst in my pants
We need a win!
franks a lot - May 19, 2009
doctorK - May 18, 2009
Head palm is what I thought your answer was to Jordin Sparks. Haha!
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
If she is one of these mass-produced American Idol-types
then the facepalm is, in fact, the correct answer.
doctorK - May 18, 2009
Good answer.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
The answer is B
Vacafan - May 18, 2009
To expand on B...
Why is Beane so quick to grab pitchers w/ bad walk ratios? It seems like Gio, Gallagher, Eveland, etc… all seem to have extreme difficulties in finding the strikezone w/ any pitch. Huddy, Mulder, Haren, Blanton, Harden, etc… were all pitchers who never had issues finding the strikezone. What gives?
Colorado Fan - May 18, 2009
(scanned pitcher list to confirm no Zito)
ak_A - May 18, 2009
Gio and Eveland were almost throw ins, no?
Gallagher was meant to be better than this.
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
Gio was NOT a throw in
great numbers, considered a top prospect, etc.
travdog6 - May 18, 2009
I thought the TJ guy was the main prize for Swish with Gio being a secondary piece.
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
Maybe we have a different definition of throw in,
TJ was the guy, but that deal doesn’t get done without Gio. But ya, I get what you’re saying.
travdog6 - May 18, 2009
Gio is not looking like a top prospect at the moment
Not only no control but fastball not good enough IMO.
Who knows what happens with him down the line
Trainman - May 18, 2009
Control
It all comes down to commanding the strikezone with every pitch. Gio can absolutely survive with his 89-91 MPH Fastball, Curve, and 80 MPH Changeup. But, he’s never really been able to find the strikezone on a consistent basis. That is why I don’t understand why the A’s Scouting Dept. is falling in love with these types of pitchers.
Colorado Fan - May 19, 2009
Yup - it's what I keep harping on
when I discuss Braden, Eveland, Cahill, Anderson and others, and suggest what we can expect. Fastball command is huge. Everything works off of that.
Nico - May 19, 2009
Baseball America had Gio as their #1 prospect that year with FDLS #2.
calas - May 18, 2009
I don't know what is wrong with Gio
He pitches like our hitters hit.
Tentative maybe.
Far too many walks and does not have the stuff to go after hitters.
Trainman - May 18, 2009
yknow
I’d take you more seriously if there were more diversity in your comments and if you knew what you were talking about
He led the minors in strikeouts just 1.5 years ago
ohmangoAs - May 19, 2009
This is not the minors
If he has the stuff then explain why everyime he falls behind , he gets hammered.
They foul off half a dozen and then get a pitch to hit.
I am not saying he is a bad pitcher at all. I am saying he walks too many and gets pounded and this is his MO for 2008 and 2009. It has not improved. Not to say it won’t. So don’t tell me what I am talking about. 89-91 is not great stuff. He has a good curve but that can only be thrown so much to be effective.
Trainman - May 19, 2009
He had more stuff in the minors than
any of his peers. Those peers are his competition for MLB time. His struggles with control (and falling behind) are definitely a problem. That problem should be attributed to his mindset, control, or approach, but not to a lack of stuff.
ohmangoAs - May 19, 2009
I'll Add...
Braden & Cahill to guys who can’t find the strikezone… both have trouble being FITZ. Maybe because they can’t be fearless?
Colorado Fan - May 18, 2009
Braden's fine, he's anything but FITZ.
Cahill just can’t control his stuff just yet and gets punished because he’s facing the best hitters in the world rather than guys his own age.
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
Even in the Minors...
Cahill struggled w/ BB’s (see: Midland)
Colorado Fan - May 18, 2009
They only wish they could be this interesting.
Streams Of Whiskey - May 18, 2009
Not watchable
The A’s are simply not watchable! Keep Zuks, Cust and Ellis and Duke. Trade the rest.
Graybeard - May 18, 2009
fml
its so hard to watch the team right now.
bob geren makes me want to puke honestly.
I’ve never seen a professional coach who lacks that fire inside. He is like a high school coach who is best friends with the president of the school and puts out no effort because he knows his job is safe.
Cabrera, Holliday, Giambi, and Nomar have all underachieved (or been injured)
Sweeney’s numbers are down from last year
Chavez is hurt (really, did anyone honestly think he’d be healthy)
The biggest problem is this:
the team 2-3 years from now looks like this:
SP:Cahill
SP:Anderson
SP:Mazzaro
SP:Gonzalez
SP:Gallagher
(Descent to above average)
with the position players looking like this:
Suzuki
Carter
Cardenas
Those are the only players I would consider to be “high ceiling” or potential all-stars at this time (things can change, but as an A’s fan right now who can be optomistic?)
I think it is time for a firesale.
Fire Geren
Trade Holliday,
Trade Giambi
Trade Nomar
Trade Cabrera
I dont care if we dont get much. If we get cardenas for Blanton we can get SOMETHING for these 4 guys.
We need a STUD player this year.
I vote we suck the rest of this year and go for a top 5 draft pick.
UGH
FUCKIN A’S
supermarc589 - May 18, 2009
Right now we are #3
calas - May 18, 2009
Eveland so far tonight
3 innings
4 hits
2 runs
4 walks
3 strikeouts
58% strikes (43/74)
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
Eh.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
More of the same for him
Too many walks, too many baserunners. I was hoping he’d get it together in Sacramento but not so far.
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
The walks wouldn't be so bad if we were better defensively.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
Walks are always bad.
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
True, but you have to be able to defend against them, because they happen,
and we don’t.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
But what's his tRA?
Nico - May 18, 2009
Please don't start this again...
please.
travdog6 - May 18, 2009
LOL - ok. I'll assume it's high.
(13.chicken or more.)
Nico - May 18, 2009
You crack me up.
pam5981 - May 18, 2009
I don't know, but I laugh at any stat that says he was the 38th best pitcher in baseball last season
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
Trust me
I laugh when people try and justify anything good about him. He is garbage personified.
Trainman - May 18, 2009
He has never been any more than a mediocre pitcher at best, who...
…even when he MAY have been halfway decent, STILL allowed too many baserunners.
Even if you accept him being a Top 40 pitcher last year, it’s not like he’s taken that and improved. If anything last year was an aberration and the real Eveland is more like what he was in Milwaukee and Arizona and so far this season. There’s not a lot to go by with that but where’s the improvement?
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
Agreed
Trainman - May 18, 2009
I really don't want to start this again...
but it’s really pointless to make unjustified points and try to pass them as facts.
travdog6 - May 18, 2009
+100fuckingBILLION
NateHST - May 19, 2009
I think the number you're looking for is Eleventybillion
designatedforassignment - May 19, 2009
Your right
Pitchers like Mark the bird Fidrych never happen. Great one year and fall of the map. Please explain how last years results are changed by poor pitching this year. Oh thats right they aren’t.
designatedforassignment - May 18, 2009
Whoa, wait?
Dana Eveland has a career ending rotator cuff injury that’s yet to be discovered?
jeepers - May 18, 2009
It is very possible that an injury is the cause of his dip in velocity.
designatedforassignment - May 19, 2009
It's equally possible
that the giant pile of suck he registered in every major league season he’s had other than last year is more indicative of his true talents.
The Dana Eveland I’ve watched hasn’t had a velocity problem, he’s had a command problem, which, curiously enough, is also the same problem he’s had his entire career.
jeepers - May 19, 2009
I wouldn't say equally
Eveland is pitching worse in AAA right now that hes has ever pitched in the MLB with worse command. The fact that his velocity has been down and hes only throwing about 2/3 of the fastballs that he use to throw raises questions.
designatedforassignment - May 19, 2009
As the person who fucking runs this site, you should use a little more discretion
when you start making statements that you KNOW are going to antagonize people. Give it a rest already.
NateHST - May 19, 2009
forget it
it’s been a lost cause for a couple weeks now, i almost never post here anymore
flipgatey3 - May 19, 2009
Yeah, AN has become increasingly negative over the past couple of weeks
It’s not as fun as it once was.
NateHST - May 19, 2009
NO!
oh… wait.
mikev - May 19, 2009
Please stick around
In general- I wish people would stick. AN has things that you can’t get elsewhere- A neat, readable format, w/ capabilities such as rec, search, .etc. Surely the occasional I told you so (which I also wasn’t a huge fan of) isn’t too much to tolerate?
ohmangoAs - May 19, 2009
yeah, the walkers of the sunny side of the street
haven’t had to contend with a lot of traffic lately…
However, the negative freeway is jammed all the way back to Antioch!
Gaijin_Suketto - May 19, 2009
In defense of the negativity, no it's not helpful
but let’s face it – could the season have gone any worse so far than it has gone? It’s been worst case scenario again and again – if your fans care, they’re going to be incredibly frustrated. Why not just accept that all of us are really, really disappointed in the way things have gone. Nothing a five-game winning streak can’t solve.
Nico - May 19, 2009
Braden coulda been Bo McLaughlin II
That could definitely have gone worse!
Nick - May 19, 2009
Game of inches!
(Don’t say it…)
Nico - May 19, 2009
TWSS?
mikev - May 19, 2009
He said it.
:-(
Nico - May 19, 2009
IMO, the negativity has become ignorant and unbearable
There are posters that simply bitch and whine about how Player X sucks and should be traded, but there is no follow up. There’s no, “Player X fits a hole that Team Y has, and we should offer Player X for Player Y, this helping the A’s.” There’s no examination of why Player X has player poorly. Posters who do do these things are often treated with undeserved hostility.
It gets old really fast.
NateHST - May 19, 2009
I miss PT
He was one of the people who use to do that well.
designatedforassignment - May 19, 2009
Final line tonight
4.1 IP
7 H
4 ER
4 BB
3 SO
1 HR
102 pitches, 62 strikes
That’s 2.5 baserunners an inning.
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
Oh lord.
pam5981 - May 18, 2009
That keeps him down there where he belongs
He has a career of allowing baserunners.
Nothing changes no matter the competition
Trainman - May 18, 2009
Eveland is just going to work
That is it. After being treated well, he’s given the shaft before the season starts. I don’t know if the A’s can repair the relationship with him without getting a new manager. He’s a good pitcher when he wants to be. But, not when he’s undercut by having his job given to a rookie. The A’s screwed up. Lost a man in the rotation over it.
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
So you're suggesting he's not trying to pitch well because he was...slighted?
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
Eveland
after being a number 2 starter doesn’t care about the minor leagues. I guarantee he’s not down there struggling. He just don’t give a ____ about the A’s after they pulled that crap.
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
Do you think
a pitcher doesn’t set the table every once in while.
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
ya...
no….
travdog6 - May 18, 2009
You
seen Joe Blanton pitch
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
I have
I’m missing the connection between Blanton and what you were talkking about
travdog6 - May 18, 2009
actually
it’s definitely possible
flipgatey3 - May 19, 2009
Really?
Eveland just doesn’t care anymore? Or maybe he’s just bad. Why would he not care? It is his job, his livlihood, his future. He has to care.
travdog6 - May 19, 2009
Then I don't want him on the team
Simple as that.
And he wasn’t a #2 starter because of being anything special going into last season.
Seriously, if your excuse is that he’s not trying because he’s annoyed, come on.
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
I'm just saying
why throw your arm out in a minor league game. He prepares for major league games.
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
So...pitching well means you have to throw your arm out?
Trust me, if he’s pitching like crap in Sacramento he sure isn’t going to be back in the A’s rotation any time soon.
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
And
Yes it was because he was something special. If you remember right we were in contention until Frank Thomas got hurt.
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
Dana Eveland was never anything special
Sorry.
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
Weren't you cheering last year?
Duke and Eveland were great to watch, I thought
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
Not sure what me cheering has to do with this
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
Meaning
They were a good 1-2 and we were hanging with the Angels
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
You can't just send vet's
to the minor’s… and he will go pitch for someone else and we’ll have to pay or trade for a new pitcher… just another loss… I don’t think it was worth it
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you know what you're talking about
Dana Eveland is not a vet, first of all. Prior to beginning 2008 in the A’s rotation he had thrown all of 64.1 innings in the Majors with just 6 starts and his numbers across the board were terrible.
He started out fairly well last year but you’re blaming Thomas getting hurt for something like Eveland suddenly not pitching well, suggesting he stopped trying as hard. As it is, the A’s were not going to stay in the race all year because their offense was terrible with or without Thomas.
Eveland was pitching so poorly at one point last year that he was sent to Sacramento to get things back together. Sound familiar? The same thing is happening right now.
This has nothing to do with Eveland getting some sort of imagined shaft and everything to do with him. Saying he’s not trying as hard is a convenient excuse but the fact remains he’s pitching like crap and right now he doesn’t deserve a spot in the rotation. If he keeps pitching poorly in Sacramento, he doesn’t even deserve a spot with the A’s.
Flashfire - May 19, 2009
My point is
Did sending him back to Sac help him?
SFBAsportsfan - May 19, 2009
What's the alternative?
Keep him up with the A’s and watch him suck as well?
Flashfire - May 19, 2009
And
we’ll continue to see more X-A’s in the post-season
SFBAsportsfan - May 19, 2009
You're all over the place, man
Flashfire - May 19, 2009
Yes
and so are the A’s… I’m trying to keep up
you said-prior to 2008
yes, but we are talking about 2008, which is more than any of our current starters and yes losing Frank Thomas was a big shot to the team that seemed to affect everyone
SFBAsportsfan - May 19, 2009
Then I guess Eveland doesn't have the mental makeup to get past some things others are able to
Oh well.
Flashfire - May 19, 2009
Who does?
SFBAsportsfan - May 19, 2009
Ray Fosse
thought Braden was rude in the preseason interview at the Giant’s-A’s game because he said he just puts on a costume and goes out there and pitches. Players shouldn’t feel like that. Obviously, Fosse sees different now about Braden, but my point is when you yo-yo players like a competition between majors and minors the pride wears down.
SFBAsportsfan - May 19, 2009
Oh well
Pitch better. Easy solution.
Flashfire - May 19, 2009
We are in last place
They have to change their tactics.
SFBAsportsfan - May 19, 2009
Well
I agree with you. Try to get something for him on the way out.
SFBAsportsfan - May 19, 2009
So what you are saying is:
Eveland is a number 2 starter (even though he pitches like a number 6 starter). And because he started the year as a number 2 starter (even though he pitches like a number 6 starter), the A’s should keep him in the big leagues for no other reason then the rotation slot he starter the year in.
This is the big leagues, not A+ Stockton, and if Eveland wants to be the A’s #2 starter, then he needs to pitch like it—period. He got sent to AAA, because he pitched like a AAA pitcher; the only one who slighted Eveland was Eveland.
Threepwood XX - May 19, 2009
Agree
The idea that a major league pitcher would take offense at his team rewarding a pitcher who beat him out for his job (instead of competing fiercely to keep his job) is ridiculous; if Eveland’s the kind of guy whose pitching is effected by competition, then send him to the Nationals where he won’t face any competition. Gimme a fuggin break.
Uncle Charlie - May 19, 2009
There's not much reason...
for San Diego or Colorado to trade either of those young 3bs, is there? At least, not for any players we would be willing to trade.
joshers - May 18, 2009
sorry i haven't written but i just washed my pen thoughts
this is the athletics speaking i am the murderer of the game you call baseball out by hegenberger and 66th avenue to prove this i shall state a few facts that only i and the other 42 people who go to the games know first never swing at the first pitch if the second one is close take that one too because everyone knows that hitting with a count other than 0-2 might make me lose control and do my thing second my conditioning staff it’s essential that they must either be mordantly obese or at least severely rotund so that the rich young men at risk for injury whom they serve can truly look up to and respect those providing their excellent health care third it is important that when i hire a field manager he must have been best friends with his boss for his whole adult life and i must never ever do anything to criticize him or question his job performance so any trace of accountability can be erased even if i look in the dugout and he is physically asleep now don’t try to bury this note on your back pages or i will lose so many 10 run games in a row it will make your heads spin and the giants look good bases loaded nobody out situations make nice targets perhaps some morning i shall load them up in all nine innings and still fail to score i’ve got a little list i’ve got a little list the third baseman who got 11 mil but played nil the rookie of the year from 2004 that swings like a golfer and fields like a boar the bald guy there with the empty stare that only hits in thinner air the pitchers unready the defense unsteady titwillo titwillo titwillo i like killing baseball because it is so much fun when i die i will be reborn in san jose and all that i have killed will become my season ticket holders if you are thinking this is a crass analogy i am making well maybe so but it fits they terrorize northern california with their cowardly threats to make a move they look a lot more intimidating on paper than in real life and no one has heard from them since 1974 unless you count copycats
emperor nobody - May 18, 2009
I like the way
Orlando exploits that method. He practically steps out of the box as the first pitch is on the way.
SFBAsportsfan - May 19, 2009
definitely
Just so everyone knows why I chose such a weird & semi-irresponsible analogy, of the team murdering the game… to me, this is the c-e-n-t-r-a-l issue in the attendance being so small that we’ve all had parties where more people showed up than do to the Coliseum on any given night.
OK, here’s this religious dogma, which was once this intriguing concept that we as ownership/GM have sort of convinced ourselves that we must cling to like a buoy in the open ocean whilst the large-market sharks circle us. It begins to look very much more like it’s the philosophy rather than the reality to which the philosophy (and some would say Moneyball is old hat anyway and the game has changed in a zillion different ways that make it less effective as an holistically-applied approach) is tangent, where they seem actively sort of forcing guys to take 100,000 pitches and in the process they’ve made selectivity (once a vital asset) into this ridiculously predictable caricature of itself, where teams can toss out mediocre pitchers they know we are guaranteed to make look like the second comings of Steve Carlton and Tom Seaver for the day, just because they can throw these BP first- (and often second-) pitch strikes right down the pipe and we are simply not gonna swing, it seems. It’s like The Party, eef you zweeng, zee paaahty vill be unpleased.
Anyway I don’t see how you can continue to be devoted to the walk-walk-HBP-flare-single-walk religion when, as the morbid and ugly caricature it has become, it serves to emphasize the worstest, baseball-is-so-boring stereotypes out there… which literally cuts out the casual fans you are trying (and must) reach to have what a certain SJ person would term “viable” baseball in Oakland, or really anywhere else around here if you think about things in the current economic framework of retraction and recession-without-foreseeable-end.
I mean, the purely statistical approach may seem intimidating if you think you have an angle on it on paper, but like my stupid zodiac rant alluded to above it’s only paper, and it’ll burn in the heat of the reality of the situation, which is that the Athletics have implemented a hitting approach which is pretty much guaranteed to drive away actual people who might actually come to the games and therefore return the team, through their revenue and renewed interest, to competitive status and possible prominence and even eminence, which it enjoyed as one of the elite teams not really all that long ago.
I could go into how I feel 2006 was kind of the result of Wolff thinking he had Fremont all lined up and working to make the team more attractive and relevant for the project and process, and how the current situation plays so conspiratorially, in the classical sense of the old frat brothers colluding to allow the team to become irrelevant and even embarassing to good baseball values and execution, so Lew can make his escape to SJ or Atlantis or the Death Star or wherever, but I’ll save that for another time and suffice it to say that I regrettably used the murder analogy because it really feels like we are witnessing the death-by-neglect-and-ulterior-motivation of baseball in Oakland, California, and that makes we wanna cry until my eyeballs explode from my head.
emperor nobody - May 19, 2009
How the hell does Vin Scully broadcast a baseball game single handedly every night?
OldhamA - May 18, 2009
He's sort of a modern yogi...
…and gets high on the game…
He probably doesn’t even feel his aches and pains when he’s in his flow…
I hope he keeps working ’til he dies and lives to be 120.
In my neighborhood of heaven, all ballgames are called by Vin Scully and Bill King
Gaijin_Suketto - May 18, 2009
I think what Beane missread was not the players, but was that he tried to compete a year too early.
We should have continued to rebuild for another year to let a few more holes get filled before trying to compete.
Gallagher, Gonzalez, Outman, and Eveland could still turn out to be good, it’s just that they need time to develop. Young pitching takes time to develop, and Beane gambled that the A’s pitching would develop quicker then average. It took Dan Haren three years before he threw well enough to be an ace, Braden was up and down for two years, Harden took two years before he turned into the nasty but injured pitcher we know today.
So of course Cahill and Anderson were going to be inconsistent this year, of course Gallagher, Gonzalez, Outman, and Eveland would take a year or two before a couple of them would decide to throw enough strikes to secure a rotation spot, and of course Mazzaro and Simmons would have up and down years in AAA sine they are so young/inexperienced for their levels. All you had to do was look at history to see this, Beane bet against history, and history came out on top. No one should be surprised to see Cahill, Anderson, and Braden give up 6 to 8 runs every once in a while as they become more consistent, or Gallagher, Gonzalez, Outman, and Eveland not be able to find the strike-zone until they learn how to pitch. THEY NEED TIME TO DEVELOP.
Now that being said, things aren’t as bad as they appear. Yes, loosing Carlos Gonzalez sets this team back a little developmentally, but we have Brown looking like an even better defender and hitter in AA. Also, those players that people are complaining are not part of the A’s future are keeping the A’s from rushing people like Cardenas to the majors like last year when we didn’t have any veterans after mid-year. Finally, the picks or prospects we get from Holliday, Cabrera, and maybe Giambi and Ellis will serve to make sure, even if the A’s don’t win this year, the A’s farm system will continue to be among the best in baseball and give the A’s that chance when they are ready.
Threepwood XX - May 18, 2009
Powell likely headed to the DL
according to Slusser
She also runs down the options since there are no other catchers on the 40 man roster besides Suzuki and Powell.
She also says that there was no crossup in the pitch that hit Suzuki — Gallagher said he just lost control.
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
Holy shit!
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
Wonder if Chavez is headed to the 60-day DL
It would probably be best for all.
jeepers - May 18, 2009
Isn't it ironic-
if Chavvy heads to the 60-day DL to make room for his childhood best friend Eric Munson. If they play one major league ball game together, ever, it will be a miracle.
pam5981 - May 18, 2009
Yay! Eric and Eric!
iglew - May 18, 2009
bye bye rajai
Asfan4ever723 - May 18, 2009
Rajai Davis will remain.....in our nightmares
He won’t leave because the A’s are masters at using the 60 day DL to fit more guys on the 40 man roster.
franks a lot - May 19, 2009
Some trades are just spinning wheels
I think that Beane has made the mistake that a lot of amateur stock traders make when there is nothing obvious to do, in that he just seems to be trading randomly without any specific purpose. Churning players for nothing has hurt the A’s coherence and left it without focus. The Holliday trade is a perfect example of the lack of focus. It went against Beane’s personal philosophy and cost them young talent for an older player—short term fix at a time when hitters were cheap—it was a very strange move. The Harden trade is example of a panic trade—why trade him just when it seemed he was coming around? And if he had to trade him, couldn’t he have gotten a better deal—for a batter? The Blanton trade I think was precipitated by Geren not knowing when to take him out of the game. The combination of team injuries, Beane’s panic, and Geren’s incompetence is just bomb bad. Should we trade again now? No, I don’t think that trading during a time of weakness is ever a good strategy. That being said, this team is a mess. I think it needs to fixed from the farm league up, and that will take time.
Ran - May 18, 2009
A couple things:
1) Beane has never had anything against short term fixes. Hell, he’s made a career of bringing short term fixes in for one last harrah. What happened, and the problem with the Holliday trade, was he tried to compete too early when the team had too many holes. He needed to let the talent in the farm system rise to the top for another year or two, and wait until he could count the holes in the team on one hand, before getting a player like Holliday.
2) The Harden trade was NOT a panic trade; Harden is already injured again. The A’s would have gotten even less for Harden today then we got last year had they kept him. If fact, the A’s should have done to Chavez what they did to Harden and trade him while he had SOME value.
Threepwood XX - May 18, 2009
good post
flipgatey3 - May 19, 2009
terrific interview with Melissa Lockart by the way
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
I like a woman who's succinct.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
Here I go
B— there is too much of a pattern developing to be explained by bad luck.
Holliday— pure and simple
Texas will stay up because the Angels have problems and the other two teams in the division range from mediocre to bad (A’s are not the former); Toronto will not because they’re the fourth best team in the best division in baseball, and two of those teams have infinite resources to improve themselves over the course of the season.
jasonthea - May 18, 2009
I think in 5 years our pitching will be excellent.
I think 5 out of Braden, Outman, Anderson, Cahill, Gio, Simmons, Mazzaro, Henry Rodriguez, and maybe even Inoa would make up a very good rotation.
9Custs - May 18, 2009
YES
But in less than 5 years. Within 2-3 years we will know how many of the first 8 are busts. Add Gallagher and FDLS to the list as well as people we will know about one way or another within 2-3 years.
ohmangoAs - May 19, 2009
Alright, dead tired.
Night my babies. That was hard, they all seem to be that way, lately.
lynnzgal - May 18, 2009
Baseball Tonight on the A's
Gammons just said that the past ball/cross-up fiasco “kind of sums up Oakland’s season so far”
Erasr - May 18, 2009
A's should just trade for that longoria guy.
miggyk2 - May 18, 2009
for 3b help
i think players like freese, craig, dewitt could be had…stewart/headley will cost a bit much.
slusser says they werent crossed up and powell headed to DL likely. chavezbest friend eric munson seems like the only realistic choice.
Asfan4ever723 - May 18, 2009
i honestly don't care at this point
pay for stewart or headley, no reason to get freese/craig who are like 25 or 26 already and are not “top” prospects like the first two just because they cost less. give me the big-time prospect who might be able to be had and can play now.
flipgatey3 - May 19, 2009
Exactly - I think it should have been the focus before
and I think it should be now.
Nico - May 19, 2009
they need one of these
for the motivation
bluthbanana20 - May 18, 2009
That's why Jordin Sparks was booked
Gallagher's Watermelons - May 18, 2009
Here's what I would do in order as I read the Roster
1) Send Gallagher back to AAA Call up Mazarro (If U R going to have Anderson and Cahill then you might as well have him
2) Russ Springer only mop up (which is every game of late)
3) Gio Gonzalez short relief in Pen
4) OCab down the bottom of lineup
5) Jack Hannahan to AAA Find a fill in who can get more than 1 hit a month
6) Play Buck everyday for a month to see if he performs
7) Rajai Davis – - Adios no point as team going nowhere, no need for speed
8) Matt Holliday – - Trade ASA a decent trading partner with a 3B becomes available. Throw in Simmons, Gio and whatever it takes to get er done (No Anderson, Cahill or Mazarro)
9) Fire Bob Geren before you do any of the top 8.
Trainman - May 18, 2009
write that memo to Billy...
or to whomever is running this team now.
FoolshGame22 - May 18, 2009
All of these suggestions minus 4 and 9 are terrible ideas.
designatedforassignment - May 18, 2009
Hannahan and Davis are a waste of valuable roster space
They cannot hit so what is the point of them being there.
Holliday is gone so why not get the best deal. You know it’s going to happen, it’s just a matter of time. He belongs back in the NL anyway. So why the heck is it a bad idea?
Trainman - May 18, 2009
If we trade Davis
we’ll be brought to court by the NAACP, lol
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
LOL
Trainman - May 18, 2009
Wait
until we bring up Wimberly, he’s a badass, but young atm
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
Or Monte Poole might write another column that claims the A's are racist without saying it in as many words
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
i don't even want to think
about that
flipgatey3 - May 19, 2009
trading holliday now
before he shows he is still matt holliday is a terrible idea. why trade him at his lowest value?
flipgatey3 - May 19, 2009
Food for thought - while were managing
1)Eveland-Gallagher-Gonzalez-Braden-Outman / Otherwise, if you want Cahill-Anderson trade or let go of Gallagher-Gonzalez… Basically, instead of messing with their lives by sending them back and forth, bring them up when you mean it. Every time you set a rotation, you change it, lose, blame the pitcher…. How many closers have we seen look like crap in the eighth inning. It’s a whole mind thing. It seems kinda pussy, but it’s true. Pitching is a psychological chore that is hard enough without having your job messed with. Working for the A’s has sucked for a while. Even Dallas Braden told a reporter he just puts on a clownsuit to go pitch, because he’d been jerked around so many times up to that point back and forth to AAA.
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
Train, I agree with you except for #8. I would grade either Anderson, Cahill or Mazarro (or even two of the three), depending on who we are getting in return.
ATLDuck - May 19, 2009
No more players only meetings
Cabrera calls a meeting, gets all worked up, and the team gets worse.
bear88 - May 18, 2009
Go Outman!!!
I hope Outman turns out to be who I think he is. I look forward to watching the game tomorrow. I hope they don’t bring up the make-believe low pitch-count again. It’s so minor league when they do that shit.
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
Hope he does go because
he has to face James Shields. That guy owns us at the best of times
Trainman - May 18, 2009
Yeah
I was pretty much looking forward to having him start the tougher matchup as opposed to today… Gallagher got the easier start. I bet Gallagher eventually turns it around. I liked his honesty.
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
Just caught a postgame interview with Gallagher on MLB Network's broadcast
He said, “Honestly, tonight, I don’t know really what it was. I felt fine in the bullpen before the game. All of a sudden I got out there and lost control. I just wasn’t locating the ball at all to any hitters. I can’t think of one pitch tonight that I probably executed very well. Absolutely terrible. I’m actually a disgrace to myself right now.”
Ouch.
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
Geren doesn’t understand, he thought Gallagher was great – awesome effort
Honestly though, that’s a pretty intense statement from Gallagher
SwisherThresher - May 18, 2009
Yeah, a part of me feels bad for him, but appreciates his honesty
There’s this from the game recap as well:
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
Yes
He was honest that he sucked big time. Credit for accepting it.
Trainman - May 18, 2009
I hope he doesn't have to be that brutally honest again
Flashfire - May 18, 2009
B.S.
That pitch came in at 88 MPH. Gallagher is not being honest. He missed the sign from Suzuki, and threw a fastball. He’s been challenged in the past for mental makeup, etc… so, he’s trying to blame it on losing control of the ball??? Come on. That is not being honest.
Colorado Fan - May 19, 2009
Glad you know the truth
Flashfire - May 19, 2009
I'm closer to the truth than you are...
I watched that pitch about 5 times yesterday after reading Gallagher’s quote about him “losing contol of the ball”. It was an 88 MPH pitch. It was a strike (the batter swung and missed). That does not have the makings up “losing contol of the ball”. So, you can continue to “appreciate his honesty”.
I’ll chalk it up to a young kid losing his mind on the mound, then blaming it on his grip of the baseball. Gallagher is on a AAA/MLB tightrope. If he says he forgot/missed the sign from Suzuki, he’s on a one-way trip to Sacto, no doubt.
Colorado Fan - May 19, 2009
Man Nico
Hat’s off to you, man. You must be pulling your hair out having to write about the A’s right now. Things will get better. There must be a few good free agent pitchers out there that can save us. I don’t think Billy Beane or the people with the checkbooks like to suck this much.
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
I just listened to the Mets give away a game to the Dodgers
in extra innings through incredibly sloppy defensive play. they also blew a lead by the runner not touching third on the way home.
So while we’re suffering with the awesome awfulness of our team, there is suckitude elsewhere, including with first place teams.
Don’t know if that makes me feel better, but somehow it balances things out tonight.
Time to say good night…
OaklandSi - May 18, 2009
Can I just get the bobbleheads and forget this year ever happened!
Oaktownflav - May 18, 2009
Oh boy.
Sports coming up on the news now. I’ve been shutting it off at this point for the last few days, but for some reason am tempted to watch the lowlights from today. What is wrong with me?
pam5981 - May 18, 2009
hi pamkcakes.
I’m rdrunk.
mikev - May 18, 2009
A's skipper
better start worrying about his job says the 11 o’clock news in Stockton
SFBAsportsfan - May 18, 2009
Let's hope the 11 o'clock news is on the money
Trainman - May 19, 2009
I interviewed George Pelecanos today..
He said that in the second season of The Wire, the Mayor of Baltimore tried to push production out of the city because the Carcetti character hit too close to home. Also, that all the funny stuff came from Richard Price, and that Pelecanos himself wrote the episode about the death of Stringer Bell. The four boys in season four were all professional actors from New York, but most of the other kids in the show were amateurs from the street. There were days when they’d be doing a seen, and Pelecanos and Simon would overhear two boys talking during a break, and realize these kids need to have lines, so they’d give them some. Snoop was supposed to be a one-shot. Omar was supposed to be a one-shot. But the roles grew because the actors were so terrific.
The Wire was such an awesome show.
I don’t want to talk about the A’s.
richwol1 - May 18, 2009
GreenNGoldSooner - May 19, 2009
rec'd
because it’s fucking awesome
travdog6 - May 19, 2009
okay, 1972 to 1974 were good years...
Sorry most of you weren’t yet born to appreciate them.
Despite the outcomes… 1988 to 1990 were good years. Has any other team done it? Three World Series appearances in back-to-back decades? Okay, the Yankees probably did. But, f^^k the Yankees!
I don’t see any WS appearances in the “Genius Era.” But, I guess, it is early.
FoolshGame22 - May 19, 2009
I can't help being a pedant...
That site’s convert-to-Greek-alphabet generator needs some serious help. “Athletics” is actually a Greek word — the “th” is a theta, not tau-eta. And the “ics” ending is a xi (basically an x sound) not chi-sigma, which is a letter combination that I don’t think ever happens in ancient Greek. Also, if there were a sigma at the end of the word, it would have to be the terminal form of the letter (it’s written differently if it comes at the end of a word).
Whew. Glad I could refocus us on the crucial issues here. Now, was there something about a guy not sliding, or a baseball team sucking, or…I can’t remember.
Nick - May 19, 2009
I thought the exact same thing!
Glad I’m not the only Greek-alphabet pedant here.
iglew - May 19, 2009
And while you and I are at it...
“Oakland” really should be spelled with an omega, not omicron-alpha.
Nick - May 19, 2009
About that 3B hole
Remember when many here were ardently hoping to pick up Andy LaRoche from the Dodgers? (I’ve always been a Chavez defender, but I liked LaRoche too.) Well, he’s now a 25-year-old with the Pirates, with a career line of .205/.300/.299 (.299 “slugging”!) in a little under a season’s worth of at-bats. Kind of a Bartonesque career collapsing even before it gets off the ground. Either of those guys could still come around to some degree at some point, of course, but neither is the shiny bauble he once was.
Faust - May 19, 2009
It's one thing to get a guy and have him not make it.
That shit happens. At least the attempt to fix the gaping hole at 3B is made.
It’s another thing entirely to NOT DO A DAMN THING about the problem.
mikev - May 19, 2009
+1
stm72 - May 19, 2009
there should always be a plan b
stm72 - May 19, 2009
I think the best way to get a 3B or SS of the future
would be to trade Duke, assuming he puts up decent numbers when he comes back
closetasfan - May 19, 2009
What about Holliday?
I think he’d bring back a better 3B or SS. Package Duke/Holliday, maybe you get both.
Colorado Fan - May 19, 2009
I would say Duke because more teams need pitching than corner OF.
Holliday will obviously bring back a bigger package, but the A’s will have more options in terms of what to receive with Duke. If Duke comes back in June and makes a good number of starts, he’ll have plenty of value to a desperate team by the July 31 deadline. Duke won’t net a package, but a straight up deal for a 3B/SS prospect would be ideal
Off the top of my head, contenders that have major SP holes or pitching depth issues (if one of their starters gets hurt, the replacement options don’t look decent) would be Mets, White Sox, Cubs, Rangers (I think they’re legit), Brewers, Cardinals, Dodgers, and Marlins (if they stay a contender).
Fewer teams need corner OF help.
Blicks - May 19, 2009
Just sayin
There’s not gonna be a huge trade market for a 31 year old who has never started for a full season because he always gets hurt.
mikev - May 19, 2009
Yeah, true.
Duke won’t net a lot by any means, but more teams need pitching.
Blicks - May 19, 2009
Of the teams you listed
I could potentially see a Duchscherer + something to Milwaukee for JJ Hardy deal, or a Duchscherer to Cardinals for Craig and something else.
mikev - May 19, 2009
I don't see Milwaukee dealing Hardy while they're neck and neck
in a pennant race (as they are right now). Their success is Oakland’s loss.
Nico - May 19, 2009
I agree, to a point.
But then again, adding Holliday or Duchscherer to the team while replacing Hardy with Escobar couldn’t be all that bad.
mikev - May 19, 2009
Another questionable decision by the A's front office
Why is Cunningham playing in Oakland? It seems as though playing time is limited since Sweeney and Holliday are fixtures in CF and LF, respectively. That leaves RF open for Buck and Cunningham. And let’s no longer defend Rajai Davis’ ability to collect a major league check simply because he is our speedy backup centerfielding guy. Who cares? He’s superfluous at this point in a nose-dive season.
Cunningham just came back from the DL and only logged a handful of at bats in AAA. The A’s promptly call him up and he’s only had 5 at bats. This guy is likely to waste away on the bench with an occasional spot start in RF, which isn’t the type of program you want a developing outfielder to be on. I recall Cunningham played some centerfield in the minors. Why not shuffle him in CF and RF along with Sweeney and Buck?
Ultimately, a trade needs to occur but shipping Holliday out at this point is probably too premature. Packaging Buck or Sweeney to land a third baseman remains a possibility. With each accumulating double-digit defeat, we are closer to a pitiful realization – this is another lost season.
A fire sale is likely to ensue, which makes sense for Geren to keep running out the expendable young players (Sweeney, Buck) and veterans (Cabrera, Giambi, Holliday) in an effot to showcase them (“Take a peek in our cupboards! We have some lima beans, a dusty box of lime Jello, and unlabeled tin can of something. You wann trade your can of Manwich Sloppy Joe Sauce?”). But until then, it is vital that young players like Gio, Gallagher, and Cunningham get regular playing time. Otherwise, this is all development time wasted.
Speaking of, where the HELL is Weeks? Minor league baseball is our last respite and seeing last year’s number 1 pick still out is frustrating. Get healthy and play some fricken baseball already!
franks a lot - May 19, 2009
+1 on cunningham
the a’s seem to be screwing up all their talent. we either bring ‘em up and don’t play them (hitters), or we set them up to fail (fielders).
we’ve called up gio twice this season. the minute he gets to the ball park, he’s warming up and then sucks. now i’m not wildly bullish on gio, but give the kid a shot. sheesh.
stm72 - May 19, 2009
Agreed!
At this point, the A’s have to see what Gio and Gallagher can offer as starters. Gallagher may have resigned himself to AAA or Sacrificial Lamb Mop Up sponsored by Dan Giese. I know both pitchers are wildly inconsistent so far in their earlier careers, but they need a longer audition at the majors to get a handle of what they can offer.
franks a lot - May 19, 2009
Gallagher is absolutely horrible. He hasn’t turned it around since last year. No wonder the Cubs got rid of the guy. We can’t afford to play the waiting game with this guy for another 2-3 seasons. I think we should throw Gio in the rotation though. Let’s see if he can step up in that role this year.
ATLDuck - May 19, 2009
Gallagher is a potential #3 or 4 (according to Sickels)
That is, when he has his head screwed on straight. Listening to last night’s game, he’s bottom of the first was absolutely horrible. Very wild (I recall he had an 0-2 count on a batter and he proceeded to hit him with the next pitch)!
There’s talent there with this guy. I recall reading that the Cubs were reluctant to include him in the Harden trade
franks a lot - May 19, 2009
But didn’t he have an extremely hard time nailing down a spot in the Cubs’ rotation ? I thought that they eventually moved him to bullpen duties. The guy also had problems with his weight when he was in Chicago. I seriously can only recall ONE good performance out of this guy, the first game he pitched for us against the Angels. It’s been all downhill ever since.
ATLDuck - May 19, 2009
He came into Cubs camp early 2008 having lost weight
and his performance drastically improved… until he was traded to Oakland.
And, there’s no indication that his 2008 performance with the Cubs was a fluke.
Blicks - May 19, 2009
About the BP thing
BP is about the swing, not the timing.
There is NOTHING you can do to simulate in-game major league pitching. Trying to do so can be counterproductive because it would give hitters the impression they’re working on pitch recognition and timing, when in fact they are not.
Professional hitters work on their swing mechanics and how they use the swing. Then they analyze opposing pitchers and put a game plan in place. They learn pitch recognition and timing through experience. That’s one of the reasons they spend so much time in development. It’s also a reason why so many apparently great prospects fail.
Most professional batting work is done off of a tee. Most of the rest is soft toss from about 10 feet away (off to the side, of course) and other special drills to improve swing mechanics and strength. Live BP is used to work on the swing and on driving the ball to different parts of the field, not to simulate live pitching.
I’m familiar with this because my son is a potential hitting prospect (long shot, to be clear – fields like Cust, doesn’t quite hit like him but the potential is there) whose trainers are former major league players and coaches. He basically works on a similar program to what Red Sox minor leaguers use, as we live near Boston. His trainers basically work with him on the tee, on soft toss, and, of course, on live BP – but not to simulate varsity pitching.
Interestingly, one of the things his coaches teach him is that, as a power hitter in the middle of the order, he should still be driving the ball with 2 strikes. They’d rather see him have 2 strikeouts, a foul out and a double than a single, a walk, and two groundouts, because you get more RBI’s the first way.
eastcoasta'sfan - May 19, 2009
NOTHING?
Maybe you can’t simulate in-game MLB pitching, but you can damn well simulate in-game AA/AAA pitching. A lot of guys wash out of minor league systems every year, and maybe it would behoove MLB caliber teams to have 5 or so BP pitchers that can throw 85-90 and throw decent breaking pitches.
Gaijin_Suketto - May 19, 2009
BP is done the same way across the league
Teams with better hitters than the A’s, well, hit better. They don’t need game-simulations during BP to do it.
Flashfire - May 19, 2009
I'm not challenging the A's way of doing it,
just wondering if the league has it right or wrong. Sometimes you learn that there’s a good reason and other times it’s because “that’s how we’ve always done it.” You need your swing to be a good swing against 90MPH pitching, including muscle memory, automaticity, etc. Just throwing it out there that maybe the way it’s always been done by everyone isn’t necessarily the best way.
Nico - May 19, 2009
Fair point. And I can't comment on what the A's do.
There’s actually a fair bit of innovation in how hitting is taught. Most of the teaching is behind the scene, though – it’s in the cages and on the tees. BP is the icing, cagework is the cake.
A couple examples of the drills you don’t see:
For bat speed, a ball is dropped from shoulder height every second. This simulates getting 100mph pitches every second. Try it. Most mortals cannot hit this ball at all.
For power and extension, place an old tire vertically on a post. Use two sawed off bats (about 18 inches long) and hit against it (each hand in sequence). You can only make the cool popping sound if you hit it squarely AND hard. Players get really competitive with this.
For balance and control, walk into your swing and hit at a target.
There are a lot of other examples, but these should give an idea.
One way that the Sox differ is in their use of weight training. Basically, they don’t do much of it. Their strength training is more like a cross between pilates and industrial labor, with lots of light resistance, full range of motion exercises.
But nothing replaces on the field experience.
eastcoasta'sfan - May 19, 2009
thanks for the enlightening information...
Gaijin_Suketto - May 19, 2009
Really interesting, thanks
I do fear that Cockrell’s obsession with weight-lifting was a big problem, and I’m glad to see him gone.
Nico - May 19, 2009
The Red Sox' minor league camp is an amazing place
The kids there – and they’re really kids – spend a couple hours a day in a small gym with a variety of rather unusual exercises that are clearly crafted to build core strength, range of motion, and balance more than anything else. They do have weight machines, but they pretty much use them strictly for rehab.
Another thing that you see if you watch them for a while is that they make it fun. For example, I saw players giggle when they put on a 25 lb weight vest, hopped on a rolling chair, and pulled themselves around the room with their heels. If you think it sounds easy . . . just try it!
It’s not clear that the program they use is the right program. But their health history the past few years really has been pretty good.
eastcoasta'sfan - May 19, 2009
I think you just proved my point
But to go further, if you had a current MLB starting pitcher throwing BP, even that wouldn’t simulate MLB in-game pitching. It’s not so much about the velocity or the break, or even the intensity of effort, though those do matter. It’s about putting a pitch the batter doesn’t expect in a place the batter doesn’t expect it.
Put differently, I’ll bet you that every day in BP Crosby gets thrown outside sliders and either lays off them or drives them. Crosby CAN hit the slider; he just can’t hit a major league quality slider in a game situation, and that’s all the difference in the world.
Not to mention that people who throw high 80’s / low 90’s with good major league breaking pitches are generally known as prospects, not washouts. Plus BP can be over 400 pitches, so you burn them all each day in your scenario.
eastcoasta'sfan - May 19, 2009
What do you think about the quality of
the video BP simulations? How effective of a tool are they in improving pitch recognition and hand/eye coordination?
Gaijin_Suketto - May 19, 2009
Not really familiar with those
It hasn’t come up in his training. He has done a lot of video work on his swing mechanics, though . . .
My guess is that the video simulators would be marginally helpful to some people. I’m somewhat familiar with what they do, and it does strike me as mildly realistic. But I really don’t know.
eastcoasta'sfan - May 19, 2009
During the Texas series...
Korach or Vince said that the Rangers were taking batting practice off a pitching machine rigged to throw curveballs. Anyone else remember hearing this? Is this a common practice?
This may be helpful for not only pitch recognition, but also ability to hit this offspeed pitch. It would be interesting to look at batting statistics specific for curveballs (swinging strikes, % put into play, etc.).
franks a lot - May 19, 2009
Every decent pitching machine can throw a curveball
And just about every major league hitter takes a few of those off a machine in the cages every day (as an expansion on my comment above, MLB hitters do cage / machine work as well, it’s just not a high % of their swings).
The remark shows that the announcers are either looking for things to say or they don’t understand the full routine that players go through. If an A’s player needs to work on hitting the curveball, he’ll do it, but it’ll probably be under the stands in the cage and not on the field.
eastcoasta'sfan - May 19, 2009
those machine curveballs
are not like any curveball i have ever faced in a game.
someone said it above, but batting practice isn’t about pitch recognition. it’s about swing mechanics and grooving your swing so you can have something to work with when you get into a game situation.
flipgatey3 - May 19, 2009
Kawakami ponders Geren's future
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/05/18/could-the-as-fire-bob-geren-is-hershiser-a-possible-answer/
closetasfan - May 19, 2009
no way to Hershiser
yuk yuk yuk
stormtown - May 19, 2009
If Beane does not think the manager is important
Don’t have one then. Let the players put themselves in and bat where they want. The pitchers can make their own changes where they see fit.
I have read this before that Beane thinks the manager is not important. If so, more fodder for the non-apologists.
Trainman - May 19, 2009
I think you might be taking the idea of a manager not being important too literally.
travdog6 - May 19, 2009
Hey folks, what a craptastic game it was last night! It doesn’t quite sting like it did a few weeks ago…guess I’ve become numb to our losing ways, and all the trips to the DL (Giese and perhaps Landon now, too?)
Nico, in my opinion, I think that this organization has become to reliant on snatching prospect by bulk. Further, I do think that our scouting has become one of the worst in the league. What else can it be? The significant majority of our prospects are not major-league material, and the ones who have made it to the big league club have mostly been disappointing. I try to keep myself optimistc about the young guys we have, particularly Anderson and Cahill, but in the end, we need to remember that they are all still prospects and from what we’ve learned painfully over the past few seasons, the success that our prospects enjoy in the farm system does not translate in the bigs the way that it used to in early the 2000’s. I think that’s what bothers me most about Billy’s habit of shipping off major-league ready, proven players for a bunch of prospects. It would be one thing if this organization had solid scouting and continued produce successful big-league players on the consistent basis; we would then be able to rely on these 4-5 propsects that we receive to develop and contribute in short order. However, it’s another thing (and the more realistic scenario for us) to have less than mediocre scouting and continue to pile on more youngsters, label them as “youngsters” just so the club can associate them with the “hopeful” future of the franchise. The A’s have to learn that holding onto something good is not always a bad thing, especially not when you have failed miserably in finding alternative, cheaper options. If their contract expires at the end of the season, then let them walk. At least we wouldn’t feel so alienated from having recognizable players, faces of the organization substituted for “propsects” who are faced with the inenviable task of producing immediately. The pressure is just too much for most prospects, and it’s already happened with Crosby, it’s going to happend with Cahill and Anderson. Plus, at least the club would still be more competitive and exciting throughout the season if we had proven players who can actually play the game of baseball. Now having said all this, I would indeed trade for a solid 3B if available, regardless of how poorly we play this season. And I would give up anyone including Anderson, Cahill, Sweeney, etc. to get him.
At the end of the day, prospects are just prospects. They have yet to be proven and the additional risk that comes along with every prospect should be considerable enough to balance many trades. You need proven, cornerstone players to build your club around otherwise all these young players come up and get battered every time they take the field.. Right now, we have absolutely nobody who fits this mold, perhaps IMO the most likely is Zook but he’s got a way to go. I know that this scenario will never happen, but I would trade both Cahill and Anderson for Ryan Zimmerman or Longoria. Yes, I might come off as sounding crazy to many but I’m interested in hearing what other suggestions folks may have.
ATLDuck - May 19, 2009
Beane wont fire Geren this year.
If he lets Geren go he is pointing the finger at himself. Geren is horrible.The problem with Beane is he went part ways rebuilding and part ways trying to win in 2009. You can’t have it both ways in baseball. He should just stick with his rebuilding plan that he started after the 2007 season.
Tbone 1 - May 19, 2009
Beane corrects his own mistakes
…that’s why he dumped Carlos Pena so quickly a few years back
-and it took Pena several seasons to get it together so it was a good move. He’s moving people around a lot now because he’s trying to fix his mistakes. That’s why I think Geren will be booted “upstairs” in the near future. At this point, players need change for change’s sake.richwol1 - May 19, 2009
Beane will fire Geren...
He should. The guy is an obvious chump. Maybe not AJ Hinch level of chumposity but a chump nonetheless. Why would a player respect him? Dude has to grow a bit of a spine. Billy knows that while maybe the in-game managerial decisions are not as big as we make them out to be, it’s more about players’ psyche, i.e. knowing what position they play, when they bat, what is expected of them, etc. Geren is as disorganized as they get and it translates into the players and their play on the field.
I have obviously noticed though that the sending down and calling up has been so haphazard so it makes Geren’s job harder – but we still have at least 8-10 consistent players and those players should know what they are doing on a regular basis.
Beane absolutely hates losing, bottom line. Can’t stand it. You can tell by his comments on Chavvy that he is wracking his brain for answers.
FIRE GEREN and let’s get on with the season, shall we?
Macha was a consistent winner and we were regulars in the playoffs.
Geren hasn’t done jack.
Billy Frijoles - May 19, 2009
Dig the name.
67MARQUEZ - May 19, 2009
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