Athletics Nation

The only thing I'll miss about Crosby is everyone calling him "Booby".

You could always go hang out at Bucs' Dugout.

They seem a few strokes of ink from calling him Booby.

Evidently the Giants were considering him on a minor league contract

Instead he gets to sign a major league contract and play for a minor league team if he goes to Pittsburgh.

Flashfire - December 8, 2009 reply

that's an awesome line

stm72 - December 9, 2009 reply

...

doctorK - December 8, 2009 reply

I have a friend

who performs the blue-footed booby mating dance when he gets drunk at parties. It’s awesome.

The question is...

…does it work?

his nickname

was “The Ladie’s Man”, but that was at least a little bit facetious.

you know what

I have no idea how to spell “Lady’s”

well, if he's a man for all the ladies, it'd be "ladies' man", no?

bobnothing - December 8, 2009 reply

yeah

that’s what I was going for. Evidently plural possessives are too much for me to handle.

If the plural-possessive is more than a handful, you're risking a sprained thumb.

Curits Granderson is on the down low?

Now that’s some breaking news! Billy Beane didn’t get him, but now maybe Billy Bean (the other one) will have a chance.

(Yes, I deliberately twisted everything that was intended with this post. Just getting back in the groove of things.)

thejd44 - December 8, 2009 reply

Curtis Granderson

would be a Jackie Robinson-esque figure if he were the first active player to come out…

Too bad he’s not gay.

Gaijin_Suketto - December 8, 2009 reply

Wish it didn't have to be an all star

Wish it could have been Billy Bean.

DIdn’t Glenn Burke come out? or was that just to teammates?

Burke came out publicly in 1982,

two years after he had retired. He was out to his teammates while still playing, unlike Bean.

iglew - December 8, 2009 reply

for my money, the player that would have the biggest impact if he came out:

Albert Pujols.

….I’ll just show myself out now….

cityplANner - December 8, 2009 reply

What if Ozzie Guillen came out?

That’d make headlines and then some.

And Mariotti wondering WTF?

alox - December 9, 2009 reply

As much as Crosby sucked while he was with Oakland

I wouldn’t be shocked if he turned into an league average or slightly above after a move to the NL, out of the Coli, and a change of scenery.

NateHST - December 8, 2009 reply

I think the vitriol here

was salary and expectation based.

Well that and he sucked

and was whiny and his Dad was a blowhard and….oh who am I kidding I can’t stand “The Cros” and I’m glad he’s gone.

One won lost won - December 8, 2009 reply

He's "Bones" not "The Cros"

Maybe you’re thinking of “Der Bingle”?

I never liked the idea of giving yourself a nickname. Many points off.

He made it to the majors, I never came closer than buying a ticket. So I don’t really dislike ballplayers who play MLB.

Ed Crosby’s theatrics in August were simply just that. A story because a reporter egged EC into it, IMO.

Some players do well with a change of scenery, others do a “Damon-in-Oakland”. Either way, Bobby Crosby will occasionally get on my radar screen next year, just to see “the rest of the story”.

I called him Glassboy.

But I also called Harden that.

I called him CrosBob Errorpants

Nice! You should pass that one along to Bucs' Dugout.

Yeah I call him "The Cros"

and plenty of crappy players make it to majors so I don’t see your point. I mean am I not allowed to dislike a player just because he made it to the show?

I’m happy for you that you care about his future and you think the media put words into his Dad’s mouth but I can’t stand him or his a**hole Dad and I don’t care about “the rest of the story”.

... and that's....the rest of the story.

One won lost won - December 12, 2009 reply

I gave you my opinion

Read carefully. I never implied, or suggested, that anyone should think as I think.

If I have a thought or suggestion, I write it out.

No interpretation by the reader is necessary.

I don’t tell anyone to change their thinking. Note the use of “IMO” and “my” and, if I don’t know what you’re thinking …. the “?”

Since I live alone with a cat and I I had

tapes or rather digital voice activated recordings the past few years, I would bet one could find many bytes in raised-sarcastic-voice “Oh please, get the hell out of here Bobby and no doubt as I swear to high heavens you will turn into one helluva hitter with X team” (cat bends ears back and hisses)

ak_A - December 8, 2009 reply

It's official

Chone Figgins signs with Seattle! 4 years foe 36 million….wow!

Chone Figgins

I’d rather the Mariners sign him instead of Jason Bay.

I've heard they'll sign both

Why?

He’s better and costs less.

Disagree

He costs less, yeah, but Jason Bay would give them a power threat in the middle of the order. They already have a great hitter at the top of the lineup in Ichiro. I think Bay would help them more than Figgins would.

Because Figgins actually takes a glove with him to the field

whereas Jason Bay, as far as I can tell, starts most plays with his back to the mound. Or at least that’s the only way I can account for how bad his defense is.

Having a “power threat” or a “middle of the order” hitter is completely irrelevant to how good your team is. Production counts— how you get it doesn’t.

Disagree

Having a "power threat" or a "middle of the order" hitter is completely irrelevant to how good your team is.

How is that irrelevant? I think Seattle is a better team with Jason Bay rather than Chone Figgins. Figgins has a better glove so he’s better? I don’t think so. They need a power hitter more so than Figgins.

Bay's defense sucks so bad that he gives back most of his offensive output.

Not that hard to understand.

Jason Bay

His defense sucks so bad that he gives up his 36 home runs and .921 OPS?

Not quite all of it, but that's the gist of it, yes.

Over the last three years he’s averaged a horrible 15 runs below average. He was 33 runs above average with the bat last year, which adds up to only 18 runs above average. Decent, but not nearly as good as his OPS and HR numbers tell you.

danmerqury - December 8, 2009 reply

Quite a lot of them, yes.

Jason Bay is an above average player who wants all-star money. Chone Figgins is an above average player who got paid a little bit less than he’s worth.

Graham MacAree - December 8, 2009 reply

Not all of it, but a whole lot, yeah.

Okay

If all of you guys say so, okay.

Also, in terms of replacement

Figgins is taking a position away from Hannahan. That’s a HUGE upgrade.

cityplANner - December 8, 2009 reply

Rated-R

I’m with you… Defensive is ve overrated by the AN very over-rated by the AN Stats crew, it’s ridiculous. Offense and Defense are 2 different things. Offense should be weighed much more heavily, and I think you are starting to see this shift within the A’s organization.

Give me a defense of Matt Stairs, Jason Giambi, Miguel Tejada, T-Long, Johnny Damon, and Olmaedo Sainz, and I’ll show you 205 wins in 2 seasons.

Colorado Fan - December 8, 2009 reply

Not taking sides on this, but just pointing out that

the Angels fielded an OF of Juan Rivera and Bobby Abreu at the corners and came out of it pretty good.

And Apparantly...

Torii Hunter is the 3rd best CF on the team (behind Willits and GMJ) or something like that.

Colorado Fan - December 8, 2009 reply

If anything, the reason it doesn't hurt as much is because...

…it’s not usually a case of one Bay RBI being countered by one Bay error or miscue leading to a run for the other team.

On average, more runs are going to be scored because of good hitting than bad fielding so I’d also put more weight in what someone brings offensively compared to what they give back defensively.

Flashfire - December 8, 2009 reply

What's your point?

Their defense sucked (other than Figgins himself, who had an unusually good year with the glove last season). They made up for it by scoring a lot of runs.

No one is saying that Jason Bay’s bad defense cannot be overcome, or that it makes him a terrible player. Nonetheless, he is NOT better than Figgins— but he thinks, and GMs think, that he is, so he costs more to sign.

This is why the smart GMs sign players like Chone Figgins and the dumb GMs sign players like Garret Anderson.

So does that mean we A's fans should jump for joy

when the Sox, Yanks, or Giants overpay for him in the coming days? Myself, I like Jason Bay as a player regardless of defensive stats.. I would not be signing him for his glove. Hell, we all have had to endure the horror that is Jack Cust over the course of an entire season so I think I could live with Bay manning LF! Needless to say, signing Bay would be about his bat, pure and simple.

No way Bay gets less than 12 million a year from anyone, and that’s a lowpark figure. So, whether or not you think Figgins is a better player than Bay, the man will get paid and I guarantee the team/GM that signs Jason Bay will be nothing but smiles when the inks dries. And good for Figgins by the way….it shows that you don’t have to be a big, sexy power hitter to get paid in MLB. Versatility goes a long way I suppose.

I think you made PT's point for him

Jason Bay is pretty much a better version of Jack Cust. Maybe this seems weird, since most of the stats crew is very pro-Cust, and it all comes down to this:

Jack Cust is due an arbitration raise to something like $4M, and many people are on the fence about whether to keep him.

Jason Bay, who is better than Jack Cust, but is fundamentally similar, will get a multi-year deal this offseason for like $12-15M per year… and he won’t be worth it.

colin - December 9, 2009 reply

This is somewhere in the middle

It could also be that Cust is somewhat undervalued from a purely market-driven perspective. On another team, Cust would get paid more — probably closer to $7M, whether he is “worth it” or not. Because Bay played for the Sux, he’ll get paid the $12-15M, but he’s being overvalued by most accounts.

cuppingmaster - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

He's not really even that much better

His big WAR seasons were from when he was still a competent outfielder.

In fact, if you arrange the goalposts right, Cust actually looks like a better player over the last three years.

Show me a defence that adds Gutierrez and Endy Chavez and I'll show you a 24 game improvement in 1 year

Graham MacAree - December 9, 2009 reply

Yeah

Getting a career year out of Branyan and Washburn selling his soul for a sinker didn’t hurt. Nor Felix going from a 3.9 WAR to 6.9, Aardsma’s 1.9 WAR (giving him a career WAR = 2.0) plus Lopez’s best year to date.

Gutierrez was a great pick up, don’t get me wrong, but 2009 was his first extended look at CF. Is his level of defensive performance sustainable? I don’t know, the folks who love to make projections prefer 3 years of data when they do their calculations. And while I have no doubt you know more about the Mariners and the reasons behind their 2009 success than I… one liners like yours above don’t come close to explaining how Seattle imrpoved or the value of defensive metrics in general.

It explains it as well as

the post it was responding to.

iglew - December 9, 2009 reply

I disagree

If nothing else, C-Fan offered up multiple examples of players who helped the A’s score 1831 runs over two seasons, vs. Franklin Gutierrez helping the Mariners win 24 more games in 2009.

The A’s of 2000 and 2001 were not great defensive teams.

Washburn was below average with the Mariners, Beltre didn't exist, our shortstop imploded, and our DH hit .214

If you don’t think the defence was a huge part of the Mariner’s record last year, then you’re on a crazy train.

Graham MacAree - December 9, 2009 reply

Washburn was worth 2.7 WAR in 133 IP for the Mariners in 2009

You are the first I’ve heard to suggest that a 2.7 WAR over (essentially) 2/3 of a baseball season is below average production out of a SP. I’m not saying the 2009 Mariners didn’t have their problems, I’m saying your previous comment was way too glib.

Washburn has a particularly bad batted ball profile,

so he scores significantly better on FIP than on other metrics like tRA. If your WAR figure is based on FIP and Graham is thinking of tRA (both of which seem likely), that could explain your differing perceptions.

Good discussion of Washburn here.

iglew - December 9, 2009 reply

I'll let those that enjoy the math

battle it out over FIP vs. tRA.

designatedforassignment - December 9, 2009 reply

Or look at what the Rangers did with Andrus at SS

I wouldn't call defense over-rated

But I agree with you that the accuracy inherent with years and years of refining the offensive metrics should weigh the numbers more towards the offensive side. As WAR stands now, 1 defensive run saved is equal to 1 offensive run scored. My comfort level with that fact varies depending on my mood.

Even if you take defensive metrics with a grain of salt, there is enough data out there to suggest that (based on positional values) Bay’s glove work was bad enough over the past few years that it’s probably best if his new team plans on making him their DH from Day 1.

That would not be a bad idea by any means

So at this point if you had your pick, would you try to sign Matsui or Bay to be your potential DH? Economically speaking, one would think Matsui would be the better option as he would be cheaper and probably be able to negotiate a two year deal as opposed to Bay, who will command multiple years and much more money.

What say you my fuzzy friend?

designatedforassignment - December 9, 2009 reply

And you have absolutely no reason to back up that belief other than baseless assertion.

Thankfully, AN is not a debate club,

and fans are allowed to have player preferences without backing them up with statistical arguments.

iglew - December 10, 2009 reply

+ infinity to the infinityth power

Lance Blankenship

grover - December 10, 2009 reply

And other people are allowed to tell them that those preferences are counterproductive and, ultimately, dumb

PaulThomas - December 10, 2009 reply

Billy Beane now on MLB network!

Check it out!

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091208&content_id=7778544&vkey=news_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak&partnerId=rss_oak

Here's a link to the video

day-to-day - December 8, 2009 reply

that sent me to the Geren interview. try this one

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=7143959&c_id=oak

thanks for pointing me in the right direction though, I was looking for that interview.

micdog2001 - December 10, 2009 reply

I would think that Scherzer was the best player in that deal, not Granderson

and no clue why the dbacks did the trade.

Zonis - December 8, 2009 reply

Maybe based on future projections, sure

Flashfire - December 8, 2009 reply

The D-backs, though, have their reasons for making the deal.

First and foremost, they view Scherzer as a reliever, not a starter; Scherzer’s mechanics remain a concern for many scouts.

Schlereth already is a reliever, so the Diamondbacks — in their view — are effectively trading two relievers for two starters.

foxsports.com

The problem with that argument

(And I’m only saying this because I’m certain others will bring this up)

Last year Scherzer earned a 3.2 WAR as a SP. Folks are going to rail that there’s no numbers to support the D’back’s claim.

Now, the guy’s mechanics have always been an issue and I wouldn’t be surprised if a year or two down the road he ends up having injury problems that push him into the bullpen. But it really does feel like the D’backs sold him like the RP they expect him to become and not as the successful SP he was in 2009.

grover - December 8, 2009 reply

We should offer them Dana Eveland AND Edgardo Gonzalez for Dan Haren

TWO starters, and they’d only give up ONE in return!!!

Scherzer pitched like a number 2 starter last year in his first full year.

If the Dbacks considered him a reliever after that performance and consequently sold him as such (like you said), then they’re even stupider than I thought.

lenscrafters - December 8, 2009 reply

Oh, I don't agree with it by any means

The Diamondbacks believed Scherzer’s perceived value was higher than his actual value. That’s fine, but then they went and sold him at the price he’d fetch if their definition of actual value was accepted by the rest of the league. Bad move.

Byrnes is a f'n idiot!

Josh Byrnes ain’t real bright, either!

Gaijin_Suketto - December 8, 2009 reply

Delino DeSheilds for Pedro Martinez

How many DHs is that?

Cust better sign if the A’s offer him a contract because with how many DHs on the market his value will only go down if he is a free agent. Just added is Ryan Church.

Quick!

Somebody sign Reggie Jackson!

Gaijin_Suketto - December 8, 2009 reply

Reggie could be the straw that stirs the drink

Reggie is a pretty crazy straw

U SEE WUT I DID THER!!??!

nocal81(Vincent) - December 8, 2009 reply

Sherzer Started 30 games for Arizona last season

I am under the impression he is a starter.

But am i the only one that thinks Arizona got a pretty darn good deal here!!!

Aside from Josh Byrnes?

yes, probably.

Trading a 3.2 WAR starter who is 24 years old and making league minimum, plus a 23 year old lefty who was a 1st round draft pick in 2008, and receiving a 3.5 WAR starter who is 25 and about to hit arbitration, plus another 24 year old starter who is going to be a back of the rotation guy — that’s not really the type of deal you’d hope to make every day. Especially when the 3.5 WAR starter had never been CLOSE to that good before in his career.

Jackson already hit arbitration

The D-backs are only getting 2 years of control over him while giving up 5 of Scherzer.

Even if you stipulate that Scherzer is contractually obligated to move to the bullpen immediately, it’s still an idiotic deal…

Yeah I realized that when I posted

I should have said about to get way more expensive through arbitration.

Kevin Kouzmanoff

Very good defensively and on the trading block. The giants offered Freddie Lewis and Kevin Fraden and was turned down like they should have been. Can the A’s get him for a Dana Eveland??

What can't you get for Dana Eveland?

oh right anything of value.

Starting pitching always of value

Eveland and Buck are the A’s best trading chips. Maybe the 2 of them for Kouz and Corriea.

Um, wow.

Eveland and Buck are the A’s best trading chips

I’m not sure a more inaccurate statement has ever been made.

Well, from the A's perspective...

grover - December 8, 2009 reply

Revise that statement

My bad. Buck and Eveland are the non-important parts of the A’s that could be traded without giving up anything long term.

They're worth about a buck-eve(la)n(d).

Or a Buck Two Ninety-Eight!

No

They can’t. The Twins offered Glen Perkins, and the Padres wanted more. While I don’t think Perkins is great by any means, he’s at worst the same as Dana Eveland. Why the crap would we want Kouzmanoff anyway? See career stats for reasons why getting him would be a BAD idea.

Great defense

And he kills lefties. Just stop gap but his defense would help the starting pitching.

Stats are in San Diego, which is a hitters' graveyard

Dude has some power.

richwol1 - December 8, 2009 reply

If we want a good D, horrific O 3B,

we’ll just sign Pedro Feliz and not give up any players. Feliz pretty much = Kouzmanoff.

the A's already had that, and more cheaply, last year and in 2008

remember Jack Hannahan?

OaklandSi - December 8, 2009 reply

My point was that we wouldn't be interested in either

I know

I was just reminding anyone who might have forgotten

OaklandSi - December 8, 2009 reply

Cheaper version of Beltre

Look at their stats are close since both are only good against lefties and have good defense. Beltre is over rated as a hitter.

Arcman - December 9, 2009 reply

Some other stuff...

The O’s met with the Marlins about Dan Uggla, but the Marlins want two pitching prospects in return and the Orioles are reluctant to hand that kind of package over.

Two pitching prospects…Rodriguez and Capra? Rodriguez and Simmons? Rodriguez and anyone?

If that’s the price, I’m not sure we have the pieces to meet it, but it depends on how badly they want to move Uggla. The Orioles not being willing to give up a pair of pitching prospects (Hernandez/Erbe?) for Uggla drops his price. What is our version of Hernandez/Erbe?

8:35pm: Mike DiGiovanna of the LA Times reports that Angels GM Tony Reagins would consider moving Erick Aybar for a substantial return.

Wonder what a “substantial return” is? Any interest?

The Rangers must be confident in their chances next year. Both T.R. Sullivan of MLB.com and Richard Durrett of ESPNDallas.com are reporting that the team offered Justin Smoak and Neftali Feliz to the Marlins for Josh Johnson.

WOW. Take it, Marlins! Take it now!!!!

5:12pm: Wittenmyer reports that the deal is “three quarters done.” Three teams are involved, but the Rangers and Rays aren’t among them.

4:12pm: The Cubs are close on trade with a “surprise AL team” for Milton Bradley, tweets Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times. He says the deal could happen tonight. We know the Royals aren’t in on Bradley, and the Rangers or Rays wouldn’t be a surprise. So let’s hear your guesses.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM…

Most of this stuff is from mlbtraderumors.com. Great website.

Yeah, that is good stuff!

The Marlins-Texas trade would be a doozy….

A's version of Hernandez/Erbe would be something like Cahill/Ross

Doesn’t sound quite so hot now, does it.

Rodriguez is garbage; I’m really not sure why people keep thinking they can foist him off on competent teams and get an actual return. Larry Beinfest wasn’t born yesterday.

designatedforassignment - December 9, 2009 reply

I would actually prefer Beinfest to Beane if I got first pick in the GM expansion draft.

Surprise AL team for Milton, huh?

Well I think that rules out Rangers, Mariners, and Rays (no surprise). I think we can rule out Cleveland and Oakland because MB ended tenure on a bad note. We can rule out Detroit because they’re not going to take on money. That leaves BOS, NYY, LAA, CWS, MIN, BAL, TOR and KC.

My best guess would be TOR, CWS, or LAA.

vignette17 - December 8, 2009 reply

Now they're saying that there was no surprise team and that the Rays are his likely destination.

Anyone think the A's will DFA someone to clear a spot for the Rule V draft?

I can’t remember the last time we didn’t participate. I like some of the guys this year:

Kevin Whelan, RHP, NYY
Aneury Rodriguez, RHP, TB
Yohan Pino, RHP, CLE
Steve Johnson, RHP, BAL

etc. Whelan seems like he’d be a stud reliever if he could control his stuff. Why not give it a shot? What are the chances of someone grabbing Justin Souza or Tommy Everidge?

Souza: Little to none

he was added to the 40 man roster.

I meant if we were to DFA them to clear a spot for a Rule V pick

CaliforniaJag - December 9, 2009 reply

Then there wouldn't have been a point in adding him to the 40 man roster like 2 weeks ago

I look at what teams gave up to get JJ Hardy and Curtis Granderson,

and wonder “The A’s couldn’t match/beat that and come out ahead???” I mean I realize Hardy’s bat is now a question mark and Granderson can’t hit lefties, but…ponder…

vs. RHP

Sweeney – RF
Barton – 1B
Suzuki – C
Granderson – CF
Cust – DH
Hardy – SS
McPhoxez – 3B
Hairston – LF
Ellis – 2B

vs. LHP

Davis – CF
Barton – 1B
Hardy – SS
Hairston – LF
Cust – DH
Suzuki – C
Ellis – 2B
McPhoxez – 3B
Sweeney – RF

But more importantly, what would have been the sum total of talent the A’s would have had to part with in order to match the offers for Hardy and Granderson? Grrr….

Yeah, I wish the A's somehow inserted themselves in that Granderson trade.

I mean, with the way Josh Byrnes was bending over for everyone, Beane could’ve gotten Haren back for Cunningham and Eveland.

(no, I’m not serious)

lenscrafters - December 8, 2009 reply

I suppose given that the D-Backs were dumb enough to make the trade they did,

it’s possible Beane offered a clearly better deal and they said “No!!!111” That would only be as dumb as…making the trade they made, so…who knows?

Closest I can get:

Hardy was traded for Carlos Gomez. What’s the closest player we have to him? Rajai Davis? Aaron Cunningham maybe, if Milwaukee wants young/cheap.

Granderson was aquired for Jackson, Kennedy, and Coke, but also Edwin Jackson and the guys from Arizona were in the mix. Just going by the 3 guys NYY dealt, I’d have to call the “equivalent” of that Cunningham, probably Gio or Mazzarro, and Jeff Gray pre-trade for Jake Fox. On the off chance that Detroit would have taken the deal, maybe Cunningham and Weurtz?

Rajai Davis, Aaron Cunningham, and Weurtz for a return of Granderson and JJ Hardy. Seems like a no brainer?

The trouble is that Rajai doesn't have near the trade value of Carlos Gomez or Austin Jackson

I actually think he’s pretty close to the same value as Gomez and I don’t believe in Jackson at all, but obviously the Twins and Tigers disagree.

WaddellCanseco - December 8, 2009 reply

Well, wh oknows if the offers were ever made.

Trouble is the A's don't have anyone comparable to Carlos Gomez or Austin Jackson.

Sweeney would be too much from their perspective, and Rajai, Brown or Desme aren’t enough. I would have traded Sweeney for Granderson, but that’s because I don’t really believe in Sweeney and I love Granderson. I wouldn’t have traded Sweeney for Hardy though.

WaddellCanseco - December 8, 2009 reply

Cunningham

The one thing Gomez has over Cunningham, though,

is that Gomez plays a really good defensive CF and Cunningham is a corner OFer.

Yeah, that's why I likened him a bit more to Davis.

aside from age, they’re pretty similar.

I'd take Brown or Desme over Jackson as prospects every day of the week and twice on Sunday

They have the high Ks/high BABIP thing going too, but they have actual power.

A's could also strengthen that deal in other areas

Offering pitchers better than Coke and Kennedy.

Yankees acquire swisher cheap last offseason, now do the same with Granderson.

MagicMike23 - December 8, 2009 reply

You'd be in the minority

I don’t think much of Jackson either, but the Tigers apparently do, and most people would take him over Desme or Brown. I personally wouldn’t take any of them for Granderson.

WaddellCanseco - December 9, 2009 reply

Rich Harden

According to Jon Paul Morosi of Fox Sports, the Mariners are “keeping in touch” with the agents for Rich Harden.

He’s (also) drawn interest this winter from the Rangers, Mets and Red Sox, among others, after a 2009 season in which he posted a 4.06 ERA, a 1.32 WHIP and a 10.9 K/9 in 26 starts (141 innings).

That would be another close-to-home signing.

Rich is from Victoria, B.C. The ferry ride is almost three hours, but it’s direct and it’s a lot more pleasant than being on a plane.

iglew - December 8, 2009 reply

Great, just what we need...

Facing Rich Harden 6 2 times a year!

latest is that he is close to returning to the AL west

not to Seattle, but to Texas

Ouch

Having him on a team where they don’t seem to like thinking about pitch counts could be scary.

Flashfire - December 9, 2009 reply

That's the rumor now

Fangraphs is reporting it too. 1 year, 7.5M plus an 11.5M option for 2011

and it's also being reported

by Rosenthal

one year $7.5 million

Interesting

With the Rangers about to flip Millwood to Baltimore for RP Chris Ray, they’re betting that on the upside of Harden/Ray vs. the stability of Millwood at the same basic price.

skirt

ryanmoser - December 9, 2009 reply

Why the devil is Baltimore trading for Kevin Millwood?

They’re nowhere near a competitive team at this point. It’s just a waste of money.

For the same reason you want the A's to sign a vet

They want Millwood to “mentor” their young arms and provide a stabilizing influence. The trade price (Chris Ray and a PTBNL) is cheap and the rumor is Texas is paying $3 million of Millwood’s $15 million salary. As long as the $12 million the Orioles are spending on Millwood in no way cuts into their spending on the draft or the international front then they might be overpaying a bit for the production but the extra dollars goes towards “buying” peace of mind.

Plus… possible trade chip come July.

CORRECTION

Millwood is owed $12 million next year, so the Orioles are on the hook for $9 million. That’s about 2 WAR… Millwood should be good for that in 2010.

OK

but paying market rate for wins when you’re currently in the mid-60s is a fool’s errand.

I don’t want the A’s to sign a vet because of some “stabilizing influence” bullshit, I want them to sign one because they only have two actual competent starting pitchers right now, and hoping for more than one or two of the prospects to step forward right away is dumb… come on, you know I don’t give a damn about this psycho-babble stuff.

It's for 1 year

The Orioles will slot Millwood as the #1 SP, Guthrie as the #2 (temporarily) then the kids behind them in the less visible/pressure back end. Unless Millwood totally tanks he’s going to produce excess value to the $9 million owed ($8 million if you feel like counting the round numbers $1 million Ray was going to get) and if they’re even moderately lucky they’ll have a trade chip in July.

This is a low risk deal with an easily achieved break even point and a fair amount of room for upside. Simple fact is they can be expected to be a better team with Millwood than they would have been with Ray and the cash is not excessive vs. the projected performance. And I realize you’d rather ignore that which can’t be statistically quantified but just because you choose to ignore the mental and emotional facets of life doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

Says someone known to hang out with Snuffleupagas

Snuffelupaguscan be see b all the muppets now

it freaks me the f$%k out.

Future Ed - December 11, 2009 reply

Interesting story behind that decision.

You can read it on Wikipedia.

iglew - December 12, 2009 reply

wow

that is something. I guess t makes sense.

Future Ed - December 12, 2009 reply

Big Bird touched me inappropriately when I was 7

It actually explains a lot.

Nico - December 12, 2009 reply

That's quite fowl.

LoneStranger - December 14, 2009 reply

This would be a stronger point

if there weren’t umpteen billion properly conducted baseball studies saying that the “mental and emotional facets” of baseball don’t exist.

PaulThomas - December 10, 2009 reply

you're so full of shit

UMPTEEN BILLION IS NOT A NUMBER PAUL. GOSH.

ok I’ve been drinking Racer 5 IPA all night. so what.

mikev - December 10, 2009 reply

Let's test this

Do human beings play baseball?

If the answer is yes, then there is a mental and emotional component to the game. And if you need statistical proof, check out Duke’s numbers for the A’s in 2009.

grover - December 10, 2009 reply

Whatever the mental and emotional component is,

the one thing we know— for a fact— is that it is unrelated to anything anyone ever talks about when they talk about there “being a mental and emotional component.”

Because all of those hypotheses have been tested, and they’re 100% bullshit.

The “mental component” is just part of what goes into making a player good or not good— a process which is essentially a black box. Something goes in, something comes out, and no one has a clue about what happens along the way.

Trying to justify a trade by making reference to something that happens in that black box is a. silly, b. bad strategy, and c. deeply hubristic.

PaulThomas - December 11, 2009 reply

Trying to claim that people don't have feelings

and that performance is not affected by an individual’s state of mind and or their environment is ignorant.

Put even more bluntly, just because you don’t understand how it works doesn’t mean that its irrelevant.

The Millwood trade is a solid deal for the Orioles, barring a complete and unexpected collapse by the pitcher. Because that is a possibility and shit happens. However, if Millwood performs as projected he will improve the Orioles. He will provide 30+ GS and 200 IP. He will provide surplus value in relation to the moneys paid to him by Baltimore. (Even if he collapses the Orioles are only stuck with him for 1 season.) And if the Orioles get even a little lucky they’ll have a decent trade chip in July.

As long as Millwood’s acquisition in no way cuts into Baltimore’s ability to spend on the international market or the draft there is no reason for you to be so aghast by this deal.

grover - December 11, 2009 reply

Wait, no one's arguing that people don't have feelings.

That’s absurd.

What Paul’s saying is that there has been study after study confirming that baseball players perform the same in high-pressure situations as in normal situations. Nothing in that argument says anything about people not having feelings or emotions.

danmerqury - December 11, 2009 reply

We're not talking clutch vs. non-clutch

The studies you’re referencing talk about how a player performs over the course of the season (his baseline, if you will) vs. how he performs with 2 outs in the 9th or some other such high stress situation.

What I’m talking about is the Orioles’ attempt to create an environment that affects the baseline performance in a positive manner. Millwood offers the tangible benefit of 30+ projected GS and 200+ IP and what will almost certainly be projected as above average run prevention. (Basically, he’ll be worth more than 2 WAR.)

But he also offers the intangible bonus of being a mentor to the Orioles’ young arms, he’ll be the anchor who’ll (most likely) be the Opening Day SP and he’ll be expected to be “the guy” when facing Baltimore’s tough AL East foes.

Rather than placing all that expectation on young pitchers who are still trying to figure there way around the tunnels at the ballpark, the Orioles have tagged a vet one a 1 year contract to handle all that other stuff. In other words… the Orioles are striving to create a less stressful environment for their green arms while adding a player who will project as an above average performer.

grover - December 11, 2009 reply

just because you don’t understand how it works doesn’t mean that its irrelevant.

Dude. The Orioles do not understand how “it” works, either. They might be conceited enough to THINK they do, but they don’t. I really don’t think one particular baseball team has—unbeknownst to anyone— suddenly made a quantum leap forward in understanding of human psychology.

Making decisions based on that conceit is foolhardy.

PaulThomas - December 11, 2009 reply

What the Orioles know

is that in baseball, like in most professions, mixing quality, experienced personnel with young, inexperienced personnel tends to have a positive effect on the development of said inexperienced personnel.

grover - December 11, 2009 reply

Bully for them

That “knowledge” (I would call it an “assumption,” since it’s not based on facts) will put them out about $5M next year, give or take a few Millwood jerseys here and there.

PaulThomas - December 12, 2009 reply

So if nothing else...

You’re bitching about the Orioles dropping $5 million on a SP that’s probably going to be good for 2+ WAR next season.

grover - December 12, 2009 reply

Yes, Paul, we get it

You think there’s no basis whatsoever in the field of thought that an experienced player can provide a benefit to younger ones who are relatively new to the Majors such as what grover is talking about.

To that I say “Whatever.”

Flashfire - December 12, 2009 reply

Are you denying that this is true

outside of baseball as well?

iglew - December 12, 2009 reply

LOL

Seriously, LOL.

Flashfire - December 11, 2009 reply

Illogical

iglew - December 11, 2009 reply

"doesn't exist" =

has no predictive value in any model we’ve tried.

iglew - December 11, 2009 reply

LOL

Flashfire - December 11, 2009 reply

Rangers have been busy

Flipping Millwood for Ray, signing Harden, now apparently sending catcher prospect Max Ramirez to Boston for Mike Lowell, according to Ken Rosenthal

Wow....I guess they're not waiting around for things to happen, eh?

Adrian Beltre

I guess he’s going to Boston, then.

Or do they find somebody to plug in at 1st base in house or on the cheap via FA

and move Youkillis to 3rd?

That's my guess

Maybe Nick Johnson or Adam LaRoche?

Not big enough names.

They’ll go with beltre

mikev - December 10, 2009 reply

Congrats to Crosby

Signs a 1yr/$1,5million deal with Pirates.
Thats $1.5 mill and an mlb roster spot more than I expected him to get, welcome to baseball purgatory in pittsburgh.
All quiet on the A’s front. Maybe Beane is waiting out the Royals desperation for a catcher and ready to punce on some Callaspo trade. Or they’ll wait to analyze the non tender deadline on Saturday to make some moves

MagicMike23 - December 8, 2009 reply

Bad team is good for Crosby.

Means he has a chance to be an everyday player rather than backup. If he’s ever going to re-establish his value, that’s the first step.

iglew - December 8, 2009 reply

he still has to compete with another player for the starting SS position

Interesting

Apparently the PTBNL that Washington traded to NYY for Brian Bruney is the #1 pick in the Rule 5 draft.

Two to the List of possible Free Agent signings.

This has probably been mentioned a thousand times, but Troy Glaus as a possible FA signing sticks out like a sore thumb. He fits the profile of a mid-level free agent not offered arbitration & a 3rd baseman who can “bridge the gap” / Beane’s own words, until Wallace is ready.

I do not know what his salary demands are, or what his projections, are etc, but perhaps he can hit in the .270 range & hit around 17 HR’s. If the A’s sign him to a one year-incentive filled contract, & it doesn’t pan out, it wouldn’t be the first time.

I also wouldn’t mind seeing the A’s take a chance on Pitcher Eric Bedard. It’s hard to believe the amount of talent the Mariners gave up to obtain him. If he’s healthy, & can be signed for a reasonable mount, why not give him a chance. He might be available after rehabbing from his Labrum surgery around June. The probability of signing Bedard is most likely nil. He could sign a one year, incentive filled contract, tighten his stats pitching 1/2 his games in the Coliseum & be a free agent when hopefully the economy has improved in 2011.

The A’s always seem to have a pile of “take a chance” money for veteran, mid-level value or lower free agents. Pool together the $ they spent last year on Nomar / Giambi, etc & there might be enough available to sign a player the caliber of Glaus & possibly Bedard.

alpine26 - December 9, 2009 reply

I for one would find it quite amusing if the A's and Mariners effectively swapped injury-prone aces

Not just injury-prone aces, but

Canadian injury-prone aces! Even better.

iglew - December 9, 2009 reply

3 years and $28M for Randy Wolf?

Yo no comprendo

cuppingmaster - December 9, 2009 reply

Amount per year seems decent-- he's a quality pitcher

Length, maybe not so much. Then again, most pitchers of his species don’t suddenly fall off a cliff.

Doesn’t seem utterly horrible, at least.

RANDY FUCKING WOLF.

Just thought I’d throw that in for you.

I guess he's better than Blanton

and he’s likely to get far less than that. Meh.

cuppingmaster - December 9, 2009 via mobile reply

I'm going to be depressed if the slegnA sign Halladay

He might not kill us as bad as Slingblade does, but double crap if he ends up there.

cuppingmaster - December 9, 2009 reply

You mean trade for Halladay?

er, yes, trade

cuppingmaster - December 9, 2009 reply

Roy Halladay

The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim have made an offer to the Toronto Blue Jays for Roy Halladay.

The Angels have offered SP Joe Saunders, SS Erick Aybar and CF Peter Bourjos to the Blue Jays for ace Roy Halladay, according to the Toronto Sun.

The offer could put the Angels in the driver’s seat for Toronto’s ace; they have been the most aggressive in negotiations and possess the requisite ammunition to get a deal done. Saunders, 28, was 16-7 with a 4.60 earned run average in 31 starts in 2009. Aybar, who will turn 26 next month, hit .312 with five homers and 58 RBIs in 137 games. Bourjos, 22, is a highly-regarded speedster. Saunders and Aybar are both three years away from free agency. The story notes that the Blue Jays would likely trade recently-signed shortstop Alex Gonzalez if they acquired Aybar.

I guess the good news would be that Halladay is only under contract for one more season

and 2010 probably isn’t the year the A’s will be riding the glory train.

I also wonder if Toronto might keep Gonzalez and flip Aybar to Oakland…?

Nico - December 9, 2009 reply

Wait, I thought Halladay wanted to be traded before ST started

with the idea in mind of signing an extension with his new team? Would the Angels be trying to lock him up with the trade, especially since they are more than likely to lose Lackey to FA?

I know the Halos have expressed interest in trying to re-sign Mouthbreather so if they end up pulling the trigger on the trade for Hallady, I don’t see how it could be without wanting to try and get a long term extension worked out.

Otherwiswe, seems kind of odd to trade two pretty good pieces plus a nice looking prospect for one year max of Halladay. But hey, that’s just me…..

Boy, that's a quick "NYET" if I'm Toronto's GM

Saunders kinda/sorta sucks.

Aybar's not that great either.

Really that’s not a very good deal.

really? I guess I need to check his peripherals

but he’s not terrible either. I’m wondering what exactly is worth one year of Halladay, with the idea that he does not sign an extension?

Aybar, while not great,

would be a good fit in Oakland, IMO, due to his ability to handle SS defensively with better offensive potential than Pennington offers.

That, and they can play clips of Admiral Ackbar on the bigscreen.

LoneStranger - December 14, 2009 reply

Ironically, this is probably about what Holliday is worth

It’s not what the media THINKS he’s worth, though, which is why I would sort of hope the Jays could extort more out of the Angels.

PaulThomas - December 10, 2009 reply

Or maybe it's just Halladay not wanting the trade distraction during the year.

Does he have the no trade clause in his contract?

Brandon Lyon

According to Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports, the Houston Astros have signed relief pitcher Brandon Lyon to a three-year deal worth $15 million.

It’s absolutely shocking that Houston management is willing to give three years to Lyon, when just hours ago they told LaTroy Hawkins he couldn’t have a two-year deal. Lyon is solid, and should do well throughout his tenure in Houston, but the Astros’ game plan does seem a bit odd.

Rafael Soriano

Jon Heyman is reporting that arbitration-eligible reliever Rafael Soriano has been traded from the Atlanta Braves to the Tampa Bay Rays.

The deal is pending a physical, which probably won’t go down until Thursday or morning or afternoon. It’s not yet clear who the Braves are getting in return, though right-hander Jesse Chavez’s name has been thrown around. Soriano should get a shot to contend for the ninth-inning job in Tampa Bay this spring. He had a 2.97 ERA, a 1.06 WHIP and a 102/27 K/BB ratio in 75 2/3 innings this past year.

So much for trading them Weurtz for an infielder.

It’s really disheartening to see all the potential deals that we’re missing out on.