Athletics Nation

Blanton and Harden

Remember not to long ago that fans here was complaining about the trades of thsoe 2. Now one is a free agent and the other is on the trading block cheap. I guess you could say Beane done good.

Arcman - December 7, 2009 reply

NUH UH HARDEN IS AWSOME DONALDSON SUCKS

… he typed smugly.

Joey C. - December 7, 2009 reply

this comment would have made more sense if you wrote

HARDIN

Duly noted

Joey C. - December 8, 2009 reply

Wow

Invasion of the spelling nerds. Some of you need to get a life or need the baseball season to get here ASAP.

Arcman - December 8, 2009 reply

Just a gag

I think we were both agreeing with you.

Yup

Joey C. - December 10, 2009 reply

I have to say

the Blanton trade was a real steal on our end. I was always fond with Blanton, especially the literary tribute he received in Moneyball. I thought we had traded away the leagues best inning eater: But in the end, Cardena’s and Outman were well worth the deal.

hishnik - December 7, 2009 reply

Don't forget "1/3 of Jake Fox"

Well, 1/3 of Jake Fox minus 1/3 of how much negative value Aaron Miles brings with him.

You changed your sig!

I like it a lot, given that the misuse of “literally” is one of my top grammatical bete noires, right up there with the use of “I” as part of a compound object pronoun (“between you and I” – arghhh).

I will now patiently wait for iglew to chime in with lucid instructions (in which acronyms like HTML and ANSCII may well appear) that will tell me how to get the circumflex diacritic over “bete”, so that I don’t have to do such tedious research myself. I’m counting on you, iglew!

Faust - December 7, 2009 reply

I'll bete he comes through

I can't tell you how to put the circumflex there

but I reckon the plural is betes noires.

Sorry, I just fucked up an interview and I’m quite grumpy now.

bobnothing - December 7, 2009 reply

D'oh!

You’re absolutely right about the plural. No need to apologize to a grammar prude like me. And sorry about the interview.

Faust - December 7, 2009 reply

ironically, one of the things that I was supposed to stress in the interview

was attention to detail. gah.

bobnothing - December 7, 2009 reply

Can't you just paste it in from the character map?

Bête noire. Or type Alt+0234 (numpad numbers, not top row numbers).

Bob Nothing wins the prize.

He correctly guessed that I was more interested in the missing “s” than the missing circumflex.

Dan already explained how to make the circumflex in Windows. If you’re on Mac, type opt-i followed by e. Or just cut and paste from somewhere.

iglew - December 7, 2009 reply

ê

Cool, thanks (I am on a Mac).

I didn’t think you’d be bothered by the missing circumflex so much as I thought you’d know how to do it off the top of your head and would be willing to share. I was right about that.

As for the missing “s”, yes yes, sackcloth and ashes for me – I know the rules for French plurals.

Faust - December 8, 2009 reply

Learn them all

opt-u followed by vowel for umlaut. opt-e followed by vowel for acute accent. opt-` followed by vowel for grave accent.

opt combined with various other letters or numbers for other nifty symbols. Try them out.

TWSS

I didn’t think you’d be bothered by the missing circumflex so much as I thought you’d know how to do it off the top of your head and would be willing to share

monkeyball - December 8, 2009 reply

Also, it's ASCII

One of the early extensions of ASCII was the ANSI extension, so I guess you’re conflating the two.

iglew - December 7, 2009 reply

ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI.

awesome

I wish I could claim it as my own, but it came out of a programming book I read many years ago.

This is me disappointed

I was about to break out in song about how funny that was. Still, though, good reference.

Joey C. - December 10, 2009 reply

funny& good;

LoneStranger - December 10, 2009 reply

The confusion between "I" and "me"

probably bugs me more than almost anything else in this world…

Elvez - December 8, 2009 reply

It bugs I too

"Who" and "whom" confusion is similar, isn't it?

I often feel insecure when I see the version I would not use in AN post or a comment, written by people who are a) native speakers and b) write really well.

“Me” and “whom” being the rare (only?) remnants of declension in English, one would think it is not too much to master. However, simplifying seems the natural flow for language “development”. Similar can be observed in modern German, with near extinction of dative. There is actually a saying:
- Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod
The dative is to genitive its death.

It ridicules the usage of dative (“dem”) where genitive should be used. Proper sentence, by the way, would be – Der Dativ ist der Tod des Genitivs. And the suffices s or es were also part of Old English genitive.

Somehow though, the simplest forms survive. Spelling and grammar light , leading us towards the happy days of Idiocracy . To a certain point I can understand that. Try learning Croatian as a foreigner and you will be on a Verge of a Nervous Breakdown before finishing lesson one. Seven cases (changing the nouns, not articles), terminable and non-terminable version of every verb, each conveniently accompanied with four different past tenses, as well as plurals where each noun has a different form depending whether the number (amount) ends with 1, 2-4 or 5-0. Basque is even crazier, as each verb changes depending on whom you talk to even when the sentence has nothing to do with that person.

I'd say "who" and "whom" is similar formally, but not practically

The dropping of “whom” in favor of “who” is very well established – back in high school I remember coming across a book that had to have been written in the ‘40s or ’50s that already was arguing strongly that it was basically OK to drop whom altogether and go with “who.” Personally I don’t take it quite that far – I use “whom” when it directly follows a preposition (“For whom?”) but who in any other circumstance (“Who’s it for?”). Using “I” as an object pronoun is not nearly as well established, and I’d like to keep it that way. For one thing, the misuse of “I” is mostly restricted to compound objects – no one would say “for I,” but lots of people would say “for elcroata and I.”

On another note, is “Croatian” the Language Formerly Known as Serbo-Croatian? ;-) Perhaps I now understand where you derive at least the root of your screen name, if not the whole thing.

Faust - December 8, 2009 reply

Good distinction

Yes, it is. There are minor differences between Serbian and Croatian, small enough for the two to be considered dialects of the same language. The biggest is the script, as Serbian is Cyrillic.

The screen name is what my Spanish wife and relatives call me :)

Ah, so you're a Croat who lives in Germany who has a Spanish user name who speaks in English.

That’s not confusing at all.

danmerqury - December 8, 2009 reply

Makes sense to me.

One language from parents and family, one language from wife and in-law family, one language from co-workers and neighbors, and one language for AN and the rest of the world.

That pretty much nailes it

Sounds like Charles V

AN non urbs, sed orbis.

Use of "whom" is essentially dialectical.

For most American English speakers it’s not native at all. For those of us who do use it natively it is as natural as “him” or “them” and we don’t have to consciously think about it. (Dropping it in certain cases, like “who is it for?” is also natural.)

It never bothers me at all to see “who” used instead of “whom”, since that’s how most people speak. It does, however, stick out like a sore thumb every time someone uses “whom” where it does not belong; it’s like you’re trying to imitate and getting it wrong. This is why I always advise anyone for whom “whom” is not native to just simply use “who” all the time.

Ask not for who the bell tolls

Yeah, but now you're mixing idioms.

If you ditch the whom, you also have to change word order:

Don’t ask who the bell tolls for.

Can we still say "Send not to know..."?

It sounds cooler than “don’t ask”.

All the English pronouns are still declined

I/me/my, he/him/his, she/her/her, it/it/its, we/us/our, you/you/your, they/them/their. And, for the Quakers, thou/thee/thy.

I think it’s a good thing that we still do this, because it makes it much, much easier to understand the concept of grammatical case when you’re learning another language.

The biggest confusion with who/whom, I think, has to do with dependent or interrogative clauses, when the case of the pronoun is determined by its role in the clause, not by the clause’s role in the sentence. “I hope the A’s sign whoever the best 3rd baseman will be next year” — often people will write incorrectly, “whomever the best 3rd baseman will be next year” because that clause is the object of the verb “sign.”

My, your, his, her...

Aren’t these possessive adjectives rather than declinations? In other languages (at least the ones I know) , they are not considered as declinations of I, you, he, she.

That might depend on how they developed, I guess

I don’t know the etymology of those forms, but I’ve read that the ‘s form for English possessives is a contraction of “his”, so "elcroata’s" would have been “elcroata, his”. If that’s the case, then “his”, itself, needs to have some different origin. The irregularity of the other forms might support that conclusion: we don’t say “she’s” or “you’s” (well, outside of Philadelphia, you don’t!) or “we’s”. “We/our/us” looks to me like a noun being declined.

On the other hand, those forms obviously aren’t all-purpose genitives, because we don’t say “all my” we say “all of me.”

If we had grammatical genders in English we’d be able to tell, because “my” would have to agree with the gender of the noun it was modifying if it were, in fact, an adjective. Latin has both adjectival forms (meus, mea, meum) and a genitive of the first person pronoun (mei) because you need a form of the pronoun for non-possessive genitives, too.

Interesting

I think, and I’m guessing here, that historically they were declinations. German would support that theory, as genitives of personal pronouns and possessive adjectives are sharing a root, at least.

Nominative / Genitive / Possessive adjective
ich / meiner / mein
du / deiner / dein
er / seiner / sein
et cetera.

So, I believe the same root applies for English words, as well. However, I do not see “my, your, his…” actually used as grammatical case of “I, you, he…”. Perhaps I am just missing something, but as far as I can think, only uses as possessive adjectives come to mind.

For what it's worth

wikipedia says that these forms are pronouns:

Unlike English nouns, which are undeclined for case except for possession (woman/woman’s), English pronouns have a number of forms or “cases” depending on their grammatical role in a sentence:

    * a subjective case form (I/we/etc.), used as the subject of a finite verb
    * an objective case form (me/us/etc.), used as the object of verb or of a preposition
    * two possessive case forms (mine/ours/etc.), used to indicate the possessor of another noun. One form is used as a determiner, and the other is used as a pronoun or a predicate adjective

English possessives

I had never heard the bit where “-’s” is a contraction of “his”. Old English had noun declension, and the genitive parallels the German genitive. Surely the obvious explanation is that genitive persisted as possessive while the others fell out of use. Without knowing where you heard the “his” contraction explanation, I’m inclined to think it was erroneous.

As for whether my, your etc are declined nouns or possessive adjectives, I think this is merely a semantic debate. There is no disagreement about the grammatical function of the words, just the definition of “noun declension”. El Croata, being fluent in non-English languages, probably has a more strict sense of the term than how it is commonly used in English.

Looks like it's a folk etymology

According to wikipedia (again!), it’s based on the less common “‘his’ genitive” construction, which was used alongside the “Saxon genitive” (“es” ending) through the 17th century. People seem to have inferred that the apostrophe in the modern ‘s ending indicates a contraction of “his” when it doesn’t.

Are terminable and non-terminable verbs

the same that are called “perfective” and “imperfective” in Russian?

I never got far with either language, but in my initial survey I found Russian less confusing than German. Russian has several cases, but they are clear and consistent, like in Latin, whereas in German all the suffixes overlap and I can never tell what’s going on.

Jesus, I thought this was a Hot Stove thread!

:0

Seriously.

Surely....

:=’)

DON'T CALL ME SHIRLEY

This...

AN: It's a whole different kind of blog.

Altogether!

danmerqury - December 8, 2009 reply

True dat!

AN: Where bacon happens all the time!

Don't put it past Beane to pull something like this off. though.

Perception is not always reality my good man.

You make an interesting point, though.

OMG coincidence!

my wife gave me her first successful shirley this morning! “it IS cold enough to stay in bed till noon, and please stop calling me shirley…”

AV - December 8, 2009 reply

Don't look up 'shirley' in the Urban Dictionary.

nothing wrong with shirley...avoid dirty shirley

stm72 - December 9, 2009 reply

Whenever I visit Urban Dictionary

I feel an urge to click thumbs-down on 95% of all the definition.

iglew - December 9, 2009 reply

For Iglew, every thread is a linguistics thread.

You're a cunning one

capitalized?

Yes they are

Most Slavic languages copied Latin cases more strictly than German did, with the price of having more of them.

The learning curve for German is much different than for, say, Spanish. I could flirt fluently in Spanish after a week, whereas I couldn’t even buy bread in German after living in Germany for a month.

However with an exorbitant number of rules German has, once the things start falling into their places – the rest is easy. Most difficult part (for me) is to guess the gender of the nouns, as unlike in Slavic and Romance languages it just doesn’t make any sense.

On the other hand, every German I've met has been very keen on talking to me in English

No matter how much I tried to speak to them in German, first.

The only time I’ve had trouble communicating in Germany was when I was in a bakery in Munich, and used the word ‘zwei’ instead of ‘zwo’. For some reason, the older lady who workked there took some sort of regional offence and glared at me like, instead of asking for two bread rolls, I’d requested her permission to sleep with both her daughters.

At the same time.

good for you!

Did you say Maedchen instead of Broedchen?

oblique - December 8, 2009 reply

For the past 3 months I've been trying to come up with a way to retun to AN with a bang.

When PT returned, he did so with an excellent FanPost. I wanted to do a write-up on why the A’s shouldn’t non-tender Cust, or why Eric Patterson should not be on the 25-man roster, or why Aaron Miles might truly be the biggest pile of suck I’ve ever seen. I wanted to complain about Bob Geren being retained for another failed season. But nothing really, really made me want to post again.

Until now.

Thank you elcroata, iglew, Nick, and everybody else for the grammar/linguistics. I missed posting here (though I’ve been lurking and recommending the whole time).

Me and I confusion doesn’t bother me so much, and neither does who/whom unless, as iglew said, they say whom when who is correct. I have recently started work as a TA for a popular online university. I’m disturbed by how unprepared so many students (most of them in their 30s and 40s) are for college-level work. I WISH my only concern was correcting some I/Me errors.

thejd44 - December 8, 2009 reply

Welcome back jd44!

It has been a rather long time….

WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN??!?!?

I went into hiding to avoid you and your OOTP league demands

thejd44 - December 8, 2009 reply

sad panda :(

Well, at least this thread isn't 100% "rich getting richer" trade comments...

Good to see you around. Have you at least been voting in the CPL polls?

I missed the first couple, voted in a couple, and then decided to sit back and watch more recently

I read them though, at least for the most part.

thejd44 - December 8, 2009 reply

It is great to have you back!

Are there jobs going there?

I need a job.

Miles .282 lifetime average

Miles sucked last year in under 200 ABs, but his career average suggests he’s not bad — a switch-hitter with .282 lifetime average. On top of that he’s an East Bay native. If he sucks again as utility player for A’s then maybe I’ll jump on the “bash wagon”.

BlueMoon - December 8, 2009 reply

I love the trend of getting Bay Area ball players.

Gives the team some charisma.

DDroney - December 8, 2009 reply

If he had any skills whatsoever other than the ability to hit for a .282 average, he might even be decent

Unfortunately, he doesn’t…

Well now you're just being unreasonable...

EastCoastA - December 8, 2009 reply

I bet he can even walk and chew gum at the same time!

Oh, and Rotoworld suggests that the Pirates are “making a push for Bobby Crosby.” On purpose???

The Cros’ agent has been busy rumour-mongering, I’ve seen him attached to the Pirates, Tigers, Rockies, Red Sox and Rangers.
I’m guessing none of them actually are interested.

Add the Bad News Bears to the Crosby sweepstakes.

Buttermaker needs a hitter off the bench in case Tanner can’t go.

JJ Martin - December 7, 2009 reply

Can you imagine Crosby in Boston?

That’d be hilarious.

Are they that desperate for people to work the scoreboard inside the Monster?

I’d think they’d have Sux fans lined up for that position.

DMOAS - December 7, 2009 reply

Bobby Crosby: Our Green Monster

That could be a book title.

If he did go to Boston...

…would he be the starting SS, or would he back-up Scutaro?

UncleLeo - December 7, 2009 reply

Obviously he'd be backing up

In fact, given his inflated ego, I think it’s fairly safe to guess that Boston was ruled off his list as soon as Boston signed Scutaro.

His ego is so inflated, he's even named it.

It’s called “Ed.”

Bobby Crosby's three-pronged mind:

The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed.

not sure i like these jokes

Regardless, that one was truely inspired.

That’s a QOTM nomination during the regular season…

Elvez - December 8, 2009 reply

Yeah, I a stealing that one

I smell a sigline!

Good idea

EddieVegas_NRAF - December 8, 2009 reply

Me neither

LOL............................

MMunoz33 - December 14, 2009 reply

No doubt.

Keep in mind I was being facetious.

UncleLeo - December 7, 2009 reply

I did see a little bit of sad A's rumors today

Per Jorge Arangure, the A’s interest in Chapman was (and is) not serious.

vignette17 - December 7, 2009 reply

So rumor has it we're getting Brandon Inge, eh?

I’ll tell all my friends.

FreeSeatUpgrade - December 7, 2009 reply

I got a case of Inge once...

It took forever to go away, and the scabs were horrendous…

…come to think of it, maybe that was scabies…

One won lost won - December 7, 2009 reply

Something else

Adrian Gonzales. I just said it.

jeffro - December 7, 2009 reply

+1

I second that motion

StewCrew - December 7, 2009 reply

Blanton Deal

In reality, one of the best of Beane’s career if Outman can come back from TJ surgery. Throw in some of pletera of relievers (Weurtz?) And we get Blanton back, even better.

StewCrew - December 7, 2009 reply

Bobby Crosby going to Pittsburgh?

If it was that other “Crosby” who plays hockey, it’d be news.

Otherwise, it’s nothing more than “fitting”.

The other Crosby

is already in Pittsburgh. So him playing hockey there isn’t really big news.

rrryanc - December 7, 2009 reply

Bobby Crosby got signed by the Penguins?

…only in my dreams.

cityplANner - December 7, 2009 reply

Flyers fan?

:)

q

MMunoz33 - December 14, 2009 reply

Well the first of the plausible "injury-riddled good pitchers" is off the market

in the form of Brad Penny. Not a ridiculously great contract, though— he got $7.5M with more in incentives.

Still interested in Bedard though.

BTW, I think an Uggla acquisition would see him at third, Sandoval at first, and the Giants still losing 80-plus games next season. Except they’d also be out a bunch of money and prospects. You heard it here first.

I think that Giants' alignment would make sense

They just emphasized (Chronicle, a couple days ago, I think) that Sandoval is staying at 3B, but maybe that’s just what they’re saying while they don’t have an alternative.

wasn't that a shea opinion?

Opined at a Shea Nico?

Honestly I don’t remember. It was early morning, so I was likely drunk and distracted by looking for my pants.

been there

Oh wow

so that was you? I didn’t know. Sorry. I’ll remember you next time

ChickenStanley - December 8, 2009 reply

no wonder you didn't call

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/pirates-intensify-pursuit-of-bobby-crosby.html

7.5MM with incentives for Penny?

That does not look smart at all..;..

Wonder how this affects the Cards’ likelihood of outbidding the AL East for Matt Holliday.

Blicks - December 7, 2009 reply

couldn't they have kept piniero for less than that?

Woulda been more reliable too.

cityplANner - December 7, 2009 reply

I'd love to Have Blanton back

8 innings in 2 hrs, sign me up!

brian.only - December 7, 2009 reply

More Crosby spin:

INTENSIFY PURSUIT???? (Yes I know I’m shouting)

Move over Holliday and Bay, there’s a new free agent sheriff in town!

Exactly.

I could understand intensifying the pursuit of a hit man or a psychiatrist, but I can’t find either of those associated with the writeup and so it just doesn’t compute.

intensifying pursuit of Crosby?

I guess it’s all relative…

OaklandSi - December 7, 2009 reply

"Okay fine, we'll pay you real money not Monopoly Bucks."

DDroney - December 7, 2009 reply

it turns out that Crosby is the captain of a small vessel off the coast of Somalia

This makes total sense now.

cuppingmaster - December 7, 2009 reply

EN joins the chorus

Yes, I’d love some Cupcakes, frosted these last two Octobers in the heat of the prime time postseason lights. Might come in handy in 2011 when we quit taking it so easy on the Sleggies and maybe make the playoffs. Best innings (and postgame spread) eater in MLB, yes Say It’s Alright, Joe.

The Pirates, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. The comments in that thread linked above are hi-larious. Example:

“Crosby is the worst. Funniest part is that he thinks he’s awesome… can’t figure out why the Yankees aren’t trading Jeter to get him in the line-up.”

Just the idea that we’ll never have to see that fool come up with the bases loaded again and strike out on a pitch 15 feet away gives me pause to reflect on the Total Awesomeness of Crosbylessness, coming in 2010.

If you're interested in Blanton in 2011, trading for him right now would not assist you in that pursuit...

on account of he’s a free agent after this next season.

It should be relatively easy to get Blanton to sign an extension, though.

You just tie a contract and a donut to a string and keep pulling them just out of his reach until he agrees to sign the thing.

Have you SEEN Scott Boras's waiting room?

I lived there for a couple of weeks

when I was in between apartments.

It’s so big, I don’t think anybody even noticed…

Wait for it........

………………………………TWSS!

Classsic EN!

I love it!

Just the idea that we’ll never have to see that fool come up with the bases loaded again and strike out on a pitch 15 feet away gives me pause to reflect on the Total Awesomeness of Crosbylessness, coming in 2010.

Don’t speak too soon, he’s still a free agent and we could do with another IF/warm body.

I hear ya

but if I visualize Crosby still on our team too much, this glass of anti-freeze in front of me becomes more appetizing, I’m afraid.

funniest comment from the thread about the Pirates and Crosby

was someone wondering if Bobby comes to Pittsburgh, if he will wear #87 LOL

Why would he want to put his OBP on the back of his jersey?

indeed

Maybe they should just sign his dad, or just say WTF and put Sid the Kid at SS.

What am I missing?

I totally don’t get this joke.

iglew - December 7, 2009 reply

vegAN ryAN - December 7, 2009 reply

REDRUM

Nontender deadline

I would expect a few players of interest such as atkins, garko, correia.

MagicMike23 - December 7, 2009 reply

Atkins is signed to a contract

They won’t be putting their roster on a diet quite so easily.

Nontender deadline

I would expect a few players of interest such as atkins, garko, correia.

MagicMike23 - December 7, 2009 reply

You can say that again.

Nontender deadline

I would expect a few players of interest such as atkins, garko, correia.

CaliforniaJag - December 8, 2009 reply

Bring back Smokin Joe

Great guy. Sat and drank beer with me after signing autographs at a bar one night. Workhorse and a nice guy. Get it done Billy.

HuskerFan - December 8, 2009 reply

I met Tiger Woods at an airport in Houston in '95 when he was still a Stanford student.

Awesome guy. Autographed my plane ticket. Didn’t hit on my girlfriend or anything.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/beane-on-free-agents.html

Billy pwns reporter:

New information: 0
Politician-like answers: (4563457467674)
Interesting names: 2 (Juan Uribe, Troy Glaus)

Daniel777 - December 8, 2009 reply

3b scrap pile

Just write down all the 3b out there and see if one sticks.

Arcman - December 8, 2009 reply

Fernando Tatis? Ramon Martinez?

Gee, can Matt Williams still play too? Charlie Hayes maybe?

Maybe we should just stick with the injured and crappy guys…

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

I think he's just smokescreening by throwing out every single vaguely plausible name

I love the comment the guy made about Billy Beane

“There are only two rules every GM follows regardless of payroll, job security, market, or past performance.”

Rule #1: If your phone rings and it’s Billy Beane on the other end, hang up immediately.

Rule #2: Never forget Rule #1.

The joke was far better than the end line from the original mlb.com article

“We aren’t looking for that one final piece to put us over the top, but want to develop new pieces internally to put us within that one player. And, certainly, there are guys who short-term could help in our development.” Randy Newman sang about “Short People.” Beane strolls the hotel lobbies here humming about “short-term people.”

Bad joke, though it insightfully pokes fun at Beane’s Achilles heel: aging veterans.

Yeah, Beane has a hard time pulling the plug

Kevin Correia anyone?

Would be a good cheap #5 starter that has been a swing man before. SD may trade him or non-tender. Maybe Billy can offer Eveland for him.

Arcman - December 8, 2009 reply

I wouldn't mind it personally

But he’s a lot better than Eveland:

WHIP 1.30 .298 BABIP on a .258 avg and FIP 3.81

So I don’t think it’ll happen

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

wow, it's so sexy when you WHIP out those statistics

WHIP it good.

I’m sorry, CM, but when I read your name I only have one image in my head.

Tiger Woods? :-)

Sorry for the late reply, but I’ve been busy paying off all my mistresses

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

so where's my check then, eh?

I'll PayPal you

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

hurry up, or i'll have my mother go to your house, get ill, and call 911

I would have delivered your check in person.

well hello there

p.s. cash is better

Hi.

I would have brought cash, too.

excellent

i’ll be waiting…

promise?

me too

(punches fist into palm repeatedly)

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

only my Grandma writes checks

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

that's fine as long as there's lots of "0"s in it

I'll write you a check with lots of 0's

They’ll be on the left side of the number. Is that OK?

So that's who knocked this morning

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

no that was me being noisy as i left

So you're noisy going both directions then?

noisy is good.

Indeed, but only if it's genuine.

Fake noise is no good for anyone.

I have low standards.

Standards...?

I don’t understand.

3.81 is probably below average in Petco

He's still better than Eveland

and Tomko is too. I really hope we keep Tomko.

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

To me Tomko = John Mabry...

…did great for us in half a season, will regress back to his usual next season.

DING DING DING

jeffro - December 8, 2009 reply

I'm not in love with the guy

But he’s cheap and useful in some way. That should merit some consideration.

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

Now, where did monkeyball go...?

hawt

I'll make a promise

If Kevin Correiarrrrrrrgh signs for the A’s, I’m going to write his name like that, every time he pitches

Why not

CoRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRReia

That's just how it is

Or his other nickname

Kevin “can’t fool the batter’s” Cornea

My first thought when I read the Pirtaes are actively interested in BroCro...

…“So, the Pirates plan is to continue sucking.”.

The Pirates are going for the #1 pic of 2011

They are trying to do the rebuild right this time. Sign the worst players for a few years and then make out like a bandit at draft time.

shooting4life - December 8, 2009 reply

Possible 3 team deal done?

Yanks get: Granderson,
Dbacks get: Ian Kennedy, Edwin Jackson
Tigers get: Scherzer, Schlereth, Austin Jackson, Coke (I assume this means blow)

NL west will have at least 2 all pitch no hit teams

of course, the offseason is just starting

Absolutely horrid, appalling deal for the Diamondbacks

Give away an awesome pitcher, get back two really shitty pitchers. One of whom costs a lot more.

What the &$& gives?

Actually if Schlereth is involved it’s somehow even worse for them. Are they TRYING to give away every talented player on their roster? I feel sorry for Dan Haren.

Also, this deal should be vetoed by MLB on grounds that it’s just ridiculously pro-Yankees. Granderson for that pile of crap? You’ve got to be kidding me. Can’t the A’s beat that offer?

That's exactly what I thought.

The Yanks give up Kennedy, Jackson, and a shitty reliever for Granderson.

We couldn’t have offered Simmons, Buck, and a reliever from Sacramento?

C'mon

That proposed A’s package is even more lousy than the group the Yankees are giving up.

True

So, I guess that one would have to be a 4 team trade, including the Diamondbacks and the Dodgers

Am I the only one high on Scherzer?

this move is nearly as bad as the Haren trade for Arizona! is there another quality player going to Arizona that hasn’t been reported!?!?!?

Was the motivation to save money, because they surely didn’t go younger…….

hishnik - December 8, 2009 reply

Sure wasn't to save money

Scherzer and Schlereth make the league minimum next year. Jackson most assuredly does not.

It doesn’t even move resources from pitching to hitting or something. All they did was make their team more expensive and worse. Immediately worse, not even some short-term/long-term tradeoff thing.

This is the dumbest trade I’ve seen in literally years. You have to go back to the Bavasi era to find people making deals this idiotic.

So, essentially:

1. They didn’t upgrade to better players or address organizational weaknesses

2. They didn’t save money, they increased it by a lot

3. And for a position like pitching, they opted to not go younger, but swap for older guys.

Can we trade Anderson for the gems of the D-Back farm system a second time?

hishnik - December 8, 2009 reply

Wouldn't be a proper analogy to this trade if the A's were actually giving something awesome (like Anderson) in return

It’s like them accepting Braden and Eveland for those two guys.

Inexplicable. If that trade was offered to me the phone wouldn’t have hit the receiver before the paperwork was in Bud Selig’s grubby little fists.

Is Arizona’s GM taking a kickback under the table for this or something? It’s so breathtakingly idiotic that it’s actually making me suspicious of some kind of conspiracy. And that’s not easy to do.

This.

Or Josh Byrnes is just beyond stupid.

Ridiculous. Unacceptable. Should be removed of his job immediately.

Blicks - December 8, 2009 reply

Or...

Maybe there’s something about Scherzer that makes AZ think the bottom is going to drop out soon.

I don’t know why Arizona has positioned itself as the bitch of this deal but I’ve got to think they see some kind of advantage here.

Maybe Scherzer is injured?

He did have a big increase in innings.

The D'backs would be obliged to inform the Tigers of an injury

Maybe they think his motion is too jerky and he’ll get injured relatively soon.

I think jumping to the conclusion that Byrnes is stupid is a bit premature. I haven’t heard (or looked) for AZ’s take on the deal.

The Haren trade wasn't bad for Zona IMO.

That trade is one of the few true franchise altering, win-win trades.

Considering that they were able to sign Haren to an extension, that trade is pure win-win for both sides.

Blicks - December 8, 2009 reply

The Diamondbacks ended up with the best player in the deal and managed to extend him

They paid a high price for Haren, but it was a fair price and certainly not even in the same stratosphere as this deal.

DeJay - December 9, 2009 reply

League average = really shitty?

It’s a bad deal for the D-Backs, but holy hyperbole.

A lot hinges on the short term and long term health of Scherzer’s shoulder, something the D-Backs obviously weren’t too confident about.

Danny - December 8, 2009 reply

I don't think Edwin Jackson is very likely to be league-average next season...

Guy’s had one decent season in his entire career. Even within that season, he was awful for half of it.

He’s the starting pitcher version of Santiago Casilla.

Says the guy who hates it when people use half season stats against him

Well, in general, I favor the use of career stats...

and Jackson’s career stats are mediocre at best.

Jackson and Kennedy are both league averagish

Check CHONE or ZIPS. ZIPS actually likes Jackson even more than that.

Kennedy’s minor league numbers are pretty great, and Jackson seems to have drastically improved his control over the past few years.

Danny - December 8, 2009 reply

And as for Kennedy, I don't like either his health or his stuff

He’s the righthanded Greg Smith.

Exactly -- overrated prospect who will never be good

The Yankees got a steal on this trade.

Nico - December 8, 2009 reply

Christ!

Even the talking heads on Hot Stove Report were scratching their heads about this trade.

Basically, “Why did Arizona make this trade?” Oye!

If this goes down

it is a horrible, horrible deal for the Diamondbacks. I really like Scherzer.

Have you just been victimized by a GM?

Then call the firm of Scherzer, Schlereth, Austin, Jackson, and Coke.

But save the Coke for last....

That joke Blows...

AthleticsReign - December 9, 2009 reply

no kidding..........

mrod - December 9, 2009 reply

From MLB Daily Dish

Eli Greenspan says:
“Possible trade announcement in the next hour. Stay tuned”

Is the above trade the one he was talking about?

porbably, the DBacks, Tigers, Yanks deal is the one that's about to be announced

so says MLBTR

I'll need to look up the meaning of "porbably"

isn't that a type of pepper?

thank you

Supposedly the deal is off the table for now

per Buster Olney on ESPN….

and this as well…
GordonEdes: Sox and Scott Boras talking on “numerous” subjects, according to a baseball source. Matt Holliday is presumably at the top that list.

seems like the DBacks-Tigers-Yanks deal is on

according to this

at least pending physicals.. Kennedy was injured in 2009, so I imagine he’ll have to check out as healthy or the deal might fall through.

I remember that the A’s wanted Scherzer in the Haren deal, but the DBacks wouldn’t agree. I saw him pitch last year. Very storng arm. Threw too many pitches (walked a lot of players) and didn’t go deep into the game. But hell, he’s young. You’d think with some competent coaching he can’t help but improve.

As I recall

Scherzer signed too late for him to be part of the Haren deal. But that memory was made several beers ago.

that may also be true

but reports from the time also indicated that the DBacks were not willing to part with him

I think he would have needed to be a PTBNL.

What a train-wreck

Sherzer forJackson and Kennedy……What was the motivation for the move?

Talk about horrible replacement value to shore up their rotation, I bet Haren is despondent he got locked in for a long term contract.

hishnik - December 8, 2009 reply

Maybe we could re-trade for Haren and bring him back home....

that's a good pint

But I wouldn’t be surprised if Billy tried to pull it off somehow.

Good pint

Smithwick’s comes to mind

I was thinking Guiness....

Can't argue with that one, either

Although my current favorite is Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale

Truly delicious…..yum!

I'm drinking it... (gulp)

…right now.

Nice....

I’m rather ill at the moment so you’ll have to enjoy one for the both of us.

On second thought………{Reaches for cold one…}

Gaijin_Suketto - December 10, 2009 reply

starve a fever,

drink the shit out of a cold!

as for the flu, you’re gonna be puking anyway, so why not?

You know what I have found to help with the flu/fever?

Making a nice, hot whiskey toddy. Settles the aches and pains, and calms the coughing….and then lots of sleep. Thank god I didn’t have the vomiting, too. Yikes!!!!

mrod - December 10, 2009 reply

After looking at what players were/are involved in said trade

I’m really surprised Billy did not try to get in on this action. Just from an organizational standpoint, the A’s have a lot more to offer in this type of deal, in my opinion. WTF!????

Anyone seen this bit on Matsui?

Maybe I missed it in this or an earlier thread, but there’s a rumor that Matsui is considering the A’s as a possible destination.

‘Cause of his knee he’s destined to DH. Is Matsui better than Cust, and if so how much more would you spend on him over Cust? My thinking is you have one or the other but not both on the Oakland roster.

Sign me up, if he costs the same, or even a little more.

jeepers - December 8, 2009 reply

the story was that Matsui prefers large metropolitan areas

if he’s only being considered for the AL, the Bay Area is certainly not out of the question. But I don’t know that there is interest from the A’s.

why not?

If anything, he would help draw some fans from the bay area.

a contending club would improve attendance more than any one player

that’s been pretty much the case in Oakland for years

this much is true

but that doesn’t mean Beane can’t start the process by acquiring another good bat that happens to also be Japanese etc…I don’t think it is out of the realm of possibility, basically.

Neither one will help draw fans... nothing will help draw fans

Put the blame wherever you like, but the Oakland Athletics and their namesake city are clearly mutually uninterested in doing business with each other.

this is not about the A's playing in Oakland

this is about drawing fans. Contending teams have consistently drawn well, so there’s no reason to think it wouldn’t do so again. Oakland, by the way, is pretty easily accessible from the entire Bay Area. When the team draws fans it does so from throughout the Bay Area. I speak from experience as someone who has attended games in the coliseum since 1980.

of course, crappy teams, teams with players that few fans recognize, lousy and inconsistent media coverage, etc., all those things do depress attendance.

Then again

It’s not like the A’s blew the tops off the place when they did draw “well”

Last 10 seasons (1999-2008)

AL Average Season Attendance:
2,286,874
2,262,557
2,346,071
2,207,891
2,191,745
2,340,422
2,360,452
2,458,741
2,527,968
2,464,986

A’s:
1,434,632
1,728,885
2,133,477
2,169,811
2,216,596
2,201,516
2,109,298
1,976,625
1,921,844
1,578,922

In only one season (2003) did we outdraw AL average.

I don’t want to get into to it too much because it’s OT, but we have to get better than average attendance at least a few times for us to viably contend.

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

It may not help local attendence figures, but Matsui is a superstar in Japan

That means hordes of overseas media descending upon the stadium and a bump in international following. Maybe that helps draw local fans, but the local angle is only part of the equation.

According to Sanspo, a Japanese news outlet, the Yankees stand to lose up to $15 million worth of business if Godzilla walks (tramples?) away. That figure was pulled from a nytimes article found here. That number may be inflated and of course the A’s aren’t a worldwide megabrand like the Yankees, but one can still expect a bump in revenue from a Matsui signing.

Not sure about a bump in attendance but

You could see a bump in merchandise sold thanks to Matsui being in Green and Gold.

2010 slogan would be:

“Total destruction of Tokyo….a different style of baseball!”

And once we maybe finally head to SJ:

A new style of baseball …
It’s Ichiro 2.0 Here comes Godzilla!

Ichiro will lay till he's 50! You heard it here first!

Whoops, I meant to say "play"

Good lord, where is my mind today…?

Wait, don’t answer that!

I don't know about the A's interest either

But Cust is looking at (round number) a $4.5 million price tag in 2010. Matsui would most certainly cost more but he might be counted on to produce more as well.

So how much to sign Godzilla, then?

Probably does not make sense to have both on the team, but it could happen if Beane decides to flip Cust later on…

I do not wish to watch Jack Cust attempt defense

Exactly!

So if Beane signs Matsui, and retains Cust, then he could always turn around and trade Cust before the 2010 season starts. Unless that is not allowed for some reason.

That's allowed

I just thought you meant both would be playing games for the A’s in 2010 before Cust moved on.

Oh no, no...

It wouldn’t make any sense unless Matsui was still able to play the field without looking like a new born pony.

The problem with this is that if the A's are perceived to be FORCED to move Cust,

his value drops. And as a league-average DH (thus appealing to only 2/3 of the league to begin with, i.e. AL teams and the dumb NL teams who don’t understand what defense means), it wasn’t that high to begin with.

They’d be better off nontendering Cust in that scenario, methinks (otherwise they might be stuck eating most of his salary). Which in turn means that I roundly oppose any notion of signing Matsui (unless the contract is just ridiculously cheap). Anything that makes nontendering Jack Cust look like a good idea must itself be a remarkably poor one.

Ridiculously cheap doesn't fit in my Excel sheet

Gto a corresponding dollar figure?

$6M/1 or $10M/2?

Something like that. Basically “little if at all more than Cust himself would have made.”

2/15 + PA incentives to reach 2/20?

I'm down! Let's do this!

You're eager

Twss, also!

She sounds busy

I hope she wasn’t talking with her mouth full

wouldn't wanna spill

twss

I would not put it past Billy to pull this sort of thing off, however.

Perception is not always reality my good man.

You make an interesting point, though.

The problem with the perception argument in this case is...

Cust already has a limited market given his 1 WAR 2009 and obvious defensive limitations. His going rate wouldn’t drop much lower with Matsui in the fold. Maybe you go from a C+ prospect to a C (as an example). In either case you’ve probably got as much variance in the perceived ability of our phantom prospect between the two orgs as you have in the value of a no-Matsui Cust vs. a yes-Matsui Cust.

Maybe the Giants would be desperate enough

to trade for him as their next RF…..for a year.

Again

I’m trying not to expect people to be incredibly stupid

How about the Nationals?

They just overpaid for Pudge, so there’s some stupid around the front office, and don’t believe in outfield defense. Okay, I admit I just want to see what happens when you plug Cust and Dunn into the same lineup.

In other news

Tom Emanski just had a heart attack upon reading this

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

That's a shame

He’ll miss out on Fred McGriff thanking him during his Hall of Fame acceptance speech (no, I don’t think Crime Dog is actually headed to Cooperstown)

He's close

If we were voting on all-time baseball nicknames, however, he would be second-to-none

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

catfish?

too natural-sounding

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

Yeah, Crime Dog has some tough competition

Here’s some of my favorites, not sure how I’d rank among them:

Bob Ferguson “Death to Flying Things”
Oil Can Boyd
Boom Boom Beck
Shoeless Joe Jackson
Dizzy Dean (and brother Daffy)
Mordecai “Three Finger” Brown

From the current era, there’s another strong contender in Randy Johnson, The Big Unit.

The A’s have two good candidates:
Catfish Hunter and Jimmie “Double X” Foxx.

I also have to throw in an honorable mention for the Superjew, Mike Epstein

Mike "The Human Rain Delay" Hargrove

Hugh "Losing Pitcher" Mulcahy

LOL! Never heard that one, but I like it.

Shouldn't that be

Mike “losing pitcher” Maroth of the infamously bad 2003 Tigers?

cuppingmaster - December 9, 2009 reply

Those are good

But Randy Johnson could also take “death to flying things”, and who would want to give a nickname to a guy named Mordecai?

I think I am partial to the “Crime Dog” because I grew up seeing those little cartoon vignettes on Saturday mornings interspersed between the real cartoons.

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

Best current nickname belongs to Joakim Soria:

The Mexicutioner.

CaliforniaJag - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

Not baseball, but soccer, my favorite two are

Kiki ‘Chris’ Musampa.

Also, Justin Edinburgh’s nickname is ‘Musselburgh’, because, uh, it’s just in Edinburgh.

So there you are.

Non hall of famers...

Mark “The Byrd” Fidrich.

I've always been partial

to Frank Thomas’s nickname. I mean, how cool is “The Big Hurt?”

rrryanc - December 8, 2009 reply

i like "Cupcake"

I'm still partial to

Jim “F**k You!” Rice

I never said stupidity doesn't exist...

Matsui made $13 million last year

WS MVP trophy and the “boost” from Japanese media attention minus his knee restricting him to DH?

$10 million.

???

I think it might be a bit high for him, all things considered

But, the A’s could always sign him to a contract that includes lots of incentives to take him over that figure.

Perhaps, 8 million guaranteed with another 3-4 million in incentives? 2 years?

Projections indicate that Cust will be better than Matsui with the bat in 2010.

Plus, Matsui is a far bigger injury/decline risk than Cust. There’s a far greater chance that replacing Matsui with Cust is just going to be a waste of money than a marginal improvement.

lenscrafters - December 8, 2009 reply

I'd do it in a heartbeat grover!

I actually brought the same idea up in a thread several weeks ago. Why the hell not? The A’s have the payroll to do it!

It is hard to follow all of this winter meeting stuff when we are continually a basement dweller

Athletic - December 8, 2009 reply

continually?

only in the past few years has that been the case.

2006 is so long ago

It seems like it was

I just get so pumped up for every season, and then I hear the A’s aren’t going to get the things they need to become a good team

Athletic - December 8, 2009 reply

I honestly don't know what to say

This trade is so bad for Arizona that MLB should ask them to reconsider it for a day. Tigers got a crazy return for an innings-eater and a should-be a platoon player. Yankees did well – Granderson will look better than he really is in that lineup and that ballpark and except Austin Jackson every player they gave up is completely expandable from their standpoint. But for Arizona this is worse than Beane taking every good prospect two years ago, since they at least got #1 starter in return.

Manstein - December 8, 2009 reply

Eh, should be a platoon or not

Granderson is a 3.5 WAR centerfielder who is at minimum a solid defender, at best a GG caliber guy.

Peter Gammons

leaving ESPN after the winter meetings.

Wow! Really?

Indeed.

And here’s a summary of the forthcoming AN discussion about the matter:

Red Sux, east coast bias, Steve Phillips joke, Joe Morgan joke, Red Sux.

John Kruk joke

NateHST - December 8, 2009 reply

Ooooooohhh. Nice.

Yea, but something is missing.

Lenny Dykstra joke?

"Boy, was that guy a nut!"

Oh wait, that was Kruk….doh!

is (on the verge of being) a Pirate

Boom shaaka-laaka!

LoneStranger - December 9, 2009 reply

But in all honesty, Gammons is the only ESPN reporter/host/dude

That I can stand.

NateHST - December 8, 2009 reply

Denver Post says Crosby

Makes sense considering how he stole our hearts and hopes for years

How deflating is that?

I dedicate a FanPost tittle to a guy and then he turns out Yankee? I’ll never dare to write about any players I like again…

Please start liking Yunieski Betancourt, then write a FP about him

Write one about Slingblade and Torii Hunter

That is all.

cuppingmaster - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

Write one about Aaron Miles

Like, now

CaliforniaJag - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

Dear AN,

Aaron Miles can fill a dumptruck full of suck.

danmerqury - December 8, 2009 reply

Hey everybody!

Billy Beane is going to be on MLB Network right now doing an interview!

Can you give a recap?