First of all, the A's should at least have taken the opportunity to acquire someone named Michael Gromit. But I suppose Michael Taylor will do, seeing as he actually exists and appears to be quite the toolsy young man. With this post, I address three separate issues: How it felt, emotionally, to learn of this trade, how the trade looks to me, objectively, and how I predict the A's will move forward from here.
Emotionally, my first reaction when I heard about the (presumed) trade was, "Noooooo!" because I have spent the last year thinking about "Carter, Wallace, and Cardenas." That's been my mantra. I know, shocking that I haven't been focused on "Kennedy, Eveland, and Hairston," but I haven't been. What got me through the 2009 season, and was going to sustain me as long as need be in 2010? "Carter, Wallace, and Cardenas."
The A's haven't had a really good hitter come up for so long, and I was looking forward to seeing Wallace and the sweet swing I've heard so much about. So I can't help but have a visceral reaction of disappointment to learn that his Oakland A's career will fall 2 games short of one Ryan Langerhans.
Objectively, though, I like the trade. The odds are better than not that Wallace's future is not on the left side of the infield, though frankly I will follow his career with true fascination because opinions on his defensive potential are so varied. And for the A's to trade a 1Bman or DH who can hit, for an OFer who can hit -- and run, and play defense -- is simply a good deal.
The more I read about Taylor, the more excited I am. Here's a guy who appears to have the profile of Jermaine Dye and the potential to be better (or the same, or worse -- that's the thing about a prospect). He is just the kind of player Beane has been saying he's looking for this Winter: 23, full of tools, a potential impact player who, if he is good, could be with the A's for many years alongside the core of Suzuki, Sweeney, Barton, Anderson, Cahill, Bailey, Carter, Cardenas...
What's Next? I realize that Fox and McPherson might see some time at 3B and that Chavez will be Plan A for as long as it's possible, but I have to think the A's are now in a position to deal from the OF and address the infield.
I think Ryan Sweeney will be an everyday RFer, because he was so good defensively, and the A's clearly believe in him, that I don't see them moving him to another team or moving him out of RF. I think Rajai Davis will be the CFer, because he's pretty cheap, and gives you guaranteed good defense at a key defensive position. I think if not Opening Day, then soon after, Michael Taylor will be the LFer -- giving the A's, if they keep those three, a really good defensive OF. Carter starts at AAA, Cunningham is either 4th OFer or starts at AAA, and Hairston is either a 4th OFer, or is traded if there's interest.
Buck is trade bait. Might the Tigers, having shed Curtis Granderson, be interested in a cheap, LH OFer like Buck? Perhaps -- depends on whether they think he's any good. The A's should go after (I may have mentioned this once or twice before) Brandon Inge!!!!!!, offering Buck, or Hairston, as part of a trade that is largely a salary dump for Detroit, but is a chance to fill a real need for Oakland.
Maybe you end up with this lineup in April or May, with Carter on the way to make things really interesting:
Davis - CF
Barton - 1B
Sweeney - RF
Fox/McPherson - DH
Suzuki - C
Taylor - LF
Inge - 3B
Ellis - 2B
Pennington - SS
We're getting there, folks. And it's only December 15th...
0 recs | 602 comments
woo hoo---first!
kitoko - December 15, 2009
and a douche! Hurray for you!
LoneStranger - December 15, 2009
You ever get that...
…not so first feeling?
Gaijin_Suketto - December 15, 2009
only ALL THE TIME.
LoneStranger - December 16, 2009
i think doing "FIRST"
is CGV-worthy on some sites…just saying…
flipgatey3 - December 16, 2009
its a big part of the game threads.
God I miss game threads, or just games period.
brian.only - December 16, 2009
Roomy.
danmerqury - December 16, 2009
Bloomy!
brian.only - December 16, 2009
Yes, but I believe there's been discussion about gamethread being separate beasts from regular posts.
LoneStranger - December 17, 2009
why don't you try commenting
instead of just being a WOW I’m first troll
mmamcneill - December 16, 2009
Spacious
Technotofu - December 15, 2009
I (heart) this move...Good Job Billy!
kitoko - December 15, 2009
God I hate that DH combo
I really, really, REALLY hope I’m wrong about it though.
mikev - December 15, 2009
But I like the Inge acquisition.
mikev - December 15, 2009
Inge
is due to make 6.5 mil next season. I imagine that the “rebuilding” A’s would probably want Detroit to pick up 2-3 mil of that salary. Perhaps the A’s could sweeten the pot by including a reliever – we’ve got plenty of them while Detroit’s bullpen has already been thinned out by Rodney and Lyon’s departures. Buck + Jay Marshal and Jared Lansford or Buck + Blevins – something like that.
oakballnack - December 15, 2009
I think Detroit's main reason to trade him is to delete his salary
For the A’s to avoid giving up a better prospect, they take more salary. Even though they’re rebuilding, Oakland needs a 3Bman for 2010 and the A’s want to be just competitive enough that they can try to “hang around” while seeing how good LAA, SEA, and TEX are.
And the A’s can well afford to take on a $6.5mil salary, thanks in part to their recent moves. I don’t think Beane would be opposed to spending that much on a veteran if it fills a key need, and as a 3Bman with some power, Inge does.
Nico - December 15, 2009
I've been wanting Inge for the A's since offseason 2007
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
maybe
but the A’s could probably sign a DeRosa or Crede to a 1 year deal for less than 6 mil. I think if they went the Inge route, they’d want Detroit to pick up part of the salary. Detroit would still be knocking 3 or 4 million off their payroll.
I guess I’d rather take the Andy LaRoche (young former prospect) route, see if he could be had for Cunningham or Buck or both and a couple arms.
oakballnack - December 15, 2009
derosa will be more
than one year, i would almost guarantee that. crede, maybe…but he’s like eric ahvez jr. with that back of his
flipgatey3 - December 16, 2009
I was one of the early advocaters of Inge around these here parts
but I have to say, I’d much rather have Cust, Fox and $2.5M than Inge, Fox and no money.
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
agreed
oakballnack - December 15, 2009
yeah, If its between Cust and Inge I'll take Cust.
Blicks - December 16, 2009
OTOH
2010 Coliseum promotion: “See Brandon Inge play all nine positions” day.
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
shortly followed by 'see Oakland play nine 1B/DH'
bobnothing - December 16, 2009
Inge vs Cust
Inge! I suppose the A’s could use his 170 k’s from 2009, his 0.230 BA, and all of 54 walks! I’ve got friends who are Tiger fans and feel about Inge like many on this site did about Crosby. No Inge, please!
RAC
rcodd - December 16, 2009
I.e., No F---Inge Way!
kaweahkaweah - December 16, 2009
Is
an Inge trade a rumor or speculation? I haven’t heard anything about him.
Dub_TC - December 16, 2009
Speculation
Basically me adding “Brandon Inge!!!!!!1111” to my posts 3-4 times.
Nico - December 16, 2009
I like it
Dub_TC - December 16, 2009
Inge positions
Also, I know Inge plays a little bit of catcher too, so doesn’t this open possibility of getting a little more at bats for Powell?
kyungxmin - December 15, 2009
Theoretically, you could more freely DH Powell
but I don’t think the A’s are actually that keen to get him a lot of DH at bats.
Nico - December 15, 2009
Also
If your only in need of an emergency catcher Jake Fox could probably fill the role adequately. He was moved off of catcher a few years ago, presumably because he was terrible, but he at least has the experience to be an emergency option if you want to find more AB’s for Powell.
OkayJay81 - December 15, 2009
Daric Barton, too.
Nico - December 15, 2009
I'd be a little more skeptical of Barton
He only played 1 season of catcher after high school and made the permanent switch back in ’05. Fox was catcher through three seasons of college ball and played 277 games at catcher in the minors before moving permanently in ’07.
Although that might be picking nits when it comes to emergency catchers who you would really hope not to use.
OkayJay81 - December 15, 2009
whoah, you think players that used to play catcher are the new market deficiency?
LoneStranger - December 16, 2009
New market strategy
We should trade for Inge, Jayson Werth, Buster Posey (for his versatility), bring up Donaldson and convince Biggio to come out retirement to have a lineup full of catchers in it. Alternatively trade for Russell Martin if we want preserve Donaldson’s service time (since we know how valuable it is these days) or stick him at 2B if Biggio wants to stay retired.
C Suzuki
1B Barton
2B Biggio
3B Donaldson
SS Posey
RF Werth
LF Fox
CF Inge
DH Powell
rightbackin - December 16, 2009
perfect
flipgatey3 - December 16, 2009
ehh..
I think we need to trade for kendall and put him in there too, remember, he wants to win
kyungxmin - December 16, 2009
This looks very much like something Charlie Finley would do.
LoneStranger - December 16, 2009
Carlos Delgado is available as well
AsFanInLA - December 16, 2009
Why would a rebuilding team need salary relief?
A rebuilding team is more concerned about its prospects, not money committed in the short term. Considering that the A’s ‘10 payroll stands right now at 20MM, and will probably be about 25MM after arb raises, the A’s have more than enough cheddar to take all the salary and hold the prospects.
See: Toronto paying 6MM salary in the Halladay trade.
Blicks - December 16, 2009
So you're saying I shouldn't jump of this bridge Nico?
Well alright I’ll take your word for it that this is a good move but if you hear about a handsome man who jumped off a bridge in 2011 after watching an A’s game know that death is on you!
sirbed - December 15, 2009
or off this bridge
thank goodness they don’t pay me to teach kids how to spell or type. Oh and I’m with mikev I like the idea of Inge as well.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
What does this do to Desme?
I was hoping to see him get some at bats in the bigs.
A'Since72 - December 15, 2009
Not much.
Rajai Davis is not a long term solution.
mikev - December 15, 2009
And he's a couple years away. A LOT can happen...
brenarlo - December 15, 2009
he's at least a year away
You simply can’t jump from High A ball to the bigs and expect to have success.
I believe Beane said they’d start him it Midland and move him to Sacto if he finds early success…
stranahanahan - December 15, 2009
Especially a guy with glaring "issues" like Desme's K rate
He’s not a guy to fast-track.
Nico - December 15, 2009
Yes -- he's still a long-shot to be a good major-leaguer
Nick - December 15, 2009
nothing -- I expect to see him at Sacramento
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
probably starting first in Midland
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
anyone else having trouble with mlbtraderumors site crashing?
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
My reactions
1. Relief that I don’t have to fool myself that I think Wallace might stick at 3B
2. Phew! Reading about this will pass the afternoon in a much more interesting way than writing about SEO strategies
bobnothing - December 15, 2009
mmm SEO strategies
sirbed - December 15, 2009
I know, right?
bobnothing - December 15, 2009
I'm listening to SEO Speedwagon's greatest hits
right now.
Gaijin_Suketto - December 15, 2009
heard from a friend who heard from a friend who....
True story. My brother was a big concert-goer back in the eighties and had occasion to see REO in Terre Haute, Indiana.
Lead singer Kevin Cronin from the stage, “NOBODY rocks like Terre Haute!”
A moment to say. A lifetime to mock.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
I'm sure that got a HUGE cheer, too.
UncleLeo - December 16, 2009
I've driven down
REO Speedwagon Way, in West Lafayette, Indiana
colin - December 17, 2009
I hate trades like this
Usually one goes on to stardom and the other turns out to be the bust and with the A’s luck Taylor will be the bust.
brewitt - December 15, 2009
Name one other trade like this
I can’t.
CaliforniaJag - December 15, 2009
Still we need more trades
What is next for Beane? I do agree it is getting more likely buck is traded. The next move Beane makes will be signing a 3b for this season now that Wallace is all gone.
Arcman - December 15, 2009
In my dreams, "next" is ponying up the $25M+ for Aroldis Chapman
David Forst was there at his throwing session today, along with reps from about 15 teams.
notsellingjeans - December 15, 2009
After Prieto
I am a little scared of giving that much out for a cuban pitcher since none has hit it big here.
Arcman - December 15, 2009
I think one would have to objectively call Contreras a success
even though he’s had some bad seasons.
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
El Duque worked out well
and his little brother has been serviceable, too.
Nick - December 15, 2009
but we
drafted Prieto – we didn’t sign him as a free agent. I don’t know what’s worse,though, wasting your 1st round pick on a guy like that when you could have drafted Roy Halladay or Todd Helton, or squandering millions on an international free agent flop.
oakballnack - December 15, 2009
The draft pick is obviously much worse
In one scenario you’re just out the money. In the other you’re out the money and the pick (which, as you’ve stated, could’ve been someone else).
thejd44 - December 15, 2009
Well, sort of
I mean, the IFA is going to cost a lot MORE money…
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
Billy Owens was there with Forst
grover - December 15, 2009
I read today where the A's sent three people down to see Chapman today and one was Forst.
They may actually try to get him
Eastbayjim - December 15, 2009
Obviously one of them had to be Forst.
The others were second and third.
Nico - December 15, 2009
spelling error
That should be “socond and thord”
DDroney - December 15, 2009
Socond and Thord?
Those are minor characters in the Asterix comics, right?
Gaijin_Suketto - December 15, 2009
I think I heard
they will be in the new Thor movie
ChickenStanley - December 16, 2009
YES.
Blicks - December 16, 2009
Starting pitching looks like a glaring need
Considering that
1- Outman isn’t going to be ready to start the season
2- Mazzaro and Cahill clearly belong in AAA for multiple reasons
3- Dusty Bakering Braden and Anderson is bad
you’ve got a rotation of Braden-Anderson-Gio-Mortensen-????,
Some cheap FA SP would be nice to bring in.
Blicks - December 16, 2009
Or of course Chapman, who's not cheap and my first choice
Blicks - December 16, 2009
but Chapman
shouldn’t start 2010 in the majors. And depending on how his first season goes, he maybe shouldn’t even start 2011 in the majors.
colin - December 17, 2009
Nah
I think the rotation is pretty close to set in managements eyes (unless there are some injuries)…
1. Anderson
2. Braden
3. Cahill
4. Gio Gonzalez
5. Vin Mazzaro
I really expect Gio to have a breakout year. Cahill and Mazzaro will be much improved. These guys should all be well versed by 2011 – 2014
Colorado Fan - December 16, 2009
Trevor Cahill is so NOT a #3 starter in MLB yet.
mikev - December 16, 2009
I'm not convinced he's a #3 starter in AAA yet.
PaulThomas - December 16, 2009
Does the order really matter?
Just trying to break up the Lefties. It should save the bullpen more if you go L, L, R, L, R… and Cahill is better than Mazzaro.
Colorado Fan - December 18, 2009
I'm not sure Mazzaro needs more AAA time
I think he’s at the point of needing to learn at the big league level.
grover - December 16, 2009
Rec'd because you're making a very good point.
Cahill and Mazzaro could be sent back to AAA, but would it really do any good? They need to learn how to be consistent against big league hitters, not minor league ones who can’t hit a breaking pitch.
I think short of Duke coming back the, the rotation will be:
1)Braden
2)Anderson
3)Cahill
4)Gonzalez
5)Mazzaro
And if Duke DOES come back then let the 5 of um “Duke” it out in spring training.
Threepwood XX - December 16, 2009
But cahill hasn't thrown the breaking pitch to ML hitters since July
how will he improve it if he doesn’t throw it?
Future Ed - December 16, 2009
I like this trade...
We project to have 2 really big power hitting right-handed bats in the middle of the order for a long time. While Carter might not make it in the field, Taylor will. Screw Buck. Cunningham, et al… Carter/Brown/Taylor for years to come… Very nice.
brenarlo - December 15, 2009
Don't forget Cardenas
A potential .300 hitter who might be a good defensive 3Bman or 2Bman.
Nico - December 15, 2009
Yep... I'm with ya...
brenarlo - December 15, 2009
I see him as the next Placido Polanco.
brenarlo - December 15, 2009
Emil is back?!?!?
Hang on while i renew my season tickets :D
supermarc589 - December 15, 2009
He's talking about Corey, not Emil, Andrew, Jeremy or Domonic
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
or Murphy
notsellingjeans - December 15, 2009
Or Doctor Emmit Brown
petitceebee - December 15, 2009
It's a flux capacitor
jeffro - December 15, 2009
Great Scott!
DeJay - December 16, 2009
1.21 Gigawatts!
5Aces - December 16, 2009
i know
that was a joke
supermarc589 - December 15, 2009
Not Dee?
vignette17 - December 16, 2009
Snyder?
LoneStranger - December 16, 2009
Rosenthal
He says A’s liked Taylor going back to last summer in phillies holliday discussions. I’m assuming they settled for Wallace and they probably preffered Taylor since and jumped at the chance to get him this time.
MagicMike23 - December 15, 2009
This trade
is all about Beane trying to hide the fact that he’s a racist.
Keze - December 15, 2009
But he can't, with Nacho Bel Grande on the beat!
The Dogfather - December 15, 2009
Are you referring to the Captain of Cheese?
Keze - December 15, 2009
That lineup is depressing
I love Sweeney, but good lord not in the 3 hole. He needs to show more pop than he has before that promotion.
bajablue - December 15, 2009
Well, once Taylor is established
you can just flip him with Sweeney. I was acknowledging that you don’t bring up a rookie to hit #3/#4. And against RHP, having Barton and Sweeney in OBP spots ahead of the “RBI guys” is a pretty good way to build a lineup, IMO.
Nico - December 15, 2009
I'm not in the know.
Is there a good scouting report on our newest A’s member?
kenntoe - December 15, 2009
I'm feeling lazy
Here.
grover - December 15, 2009
Although I've never even heard of Taylor, I love it!
I was never comfortable with Wallace. Too much uncertainty surrounding him.
Jeremy Belvins - December 15, 2009
Sickles: Taylor across between Hunter Pence and Mike Cameron
Buck was supposed to be the next rusty greer or paul o’neill, putnam a brian giles type. So lets just see how taylor does when he gets to the majors
MagicMike23 - December 15, 2009
People actually called Putnam the next Brian Giles? Like, serious people?
thejd44 - December 15, 2009
Sweeney's the next Swisher, ironically.
Once he’s really established himself as a bona-fide, first-division right fielder, I think he’ll be dealt.
I don’t think there’s any way that Carter or Taylor open the season on the big club. Combined, they’ve played 43 games in AAA. They are a part of a different wave of players, and that wave – not Sweeney’s wave – is the one that will lead the A’s back to the playoffs.
Sadly, the Sweeney/Rajai wave very well could be gone by then, if you look at Beane’s past trading history. If the A’s clearly aren’t in contention – which I definitely don’t think they’ll be by the end of 2010, or even the beginning of 2011 – Beane would prefer to trade attractive assets with 2-4 years of contractual control remaining rather than watch those assets slowly lose value as they creep toward free agency on non-contending A’s teams. Witness Street, Swisher, Haren, etc.
With that in mind, here’s my prediction:
a.) Opening Day ‘10: Hairston/Davis/Sweeney in the OF, Patterson on the bench, a star-studded AAA outfield in Sac. That starting major league trio is on the Trade Value Building Tour in ’10. Fingers crossed that Hairston remains healthy, and the A’s can sell him as the most attractive LFer on the trade market at the FA deadline.
b.) Offseason ‘11: In the rosy scenario, Davis established himself as a legitimate starting center fielder in ’10, outstanding defense without regressing to his pre-’08 self offensively. Sweeney’s outstanding defense in RF proves to be for real in ‘10, and he’s finally able to hit .300, stay healthy, and hits 10 homers. Both players finish 2010 with 3+ years of service time coming off two consecutive good seasons…one or both get dealt for prospects.
Opening Day ’11: Open the floodgates. With a full year of AAA under their belt, this is when I expect Taylor, Carter, Desme, and Cunningham to own the Oakland outfield. Not sooner.
That’s a distinctly different wave of players than the guys who currently have 2+ years of service: Suzuki, Davis, Sweeney, etc. That latter group, sadly, might not be in an Oakland uniform the next time this team makes the playoffs. That’s the pattern we’ve recently seen with Beane, anyway. Those three guys’ best chance of staying in an Oakland uniform all the way through to their free agent years is for this team to look like a legitimate playoff contender entering 2011. If the team still looks far away at that point, it makes more sense to trade them for prospects and continue the cycle.
notsellingjeans - December 15, 2009
I don't quite agree
I think it’s more likely that Rajai only plays one more season in Oakland, and Taylor slides over to CF (assuming he can — if not, then this isn’t exactly how it plays out, obviously), with Carter (or Doolittle) in LF.
I get the feeling the A’s really like Sweeney. He’s probably one of the main guys other teams insisted on at the Winter Meetings that caused Beane to say “then, no, sorry — we’re not trading those guys.” Suzuki and Anderson (don’t know about the other SPs) would also be in that category, along with Carter and Cardenas.
Nico - December 15, 2009
haha
i still cant believe we got cardenas for blanton.
silly phillies
supermarc589 - December 15, 2009
Blanton did help them win a World Series so I doubt they're too disappointed with the trade even now
Flashfire - December 15, 2009
Yeah -- seems to me like the Haren and Blanton trades were both "win-win" deals.
Nico - December 15, 2009
I'd call Haren a clear loss for Arizona, but they couldn't have known at the time
that several players (Owings, Drew, Jackson, Young) who appeared to be studs in the making would ultimately turn out to be fairly mediocre.
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
AZ would've had a pretty incredible core built around Upton and the guys they sent us.
notsellingjeans - December 15, 2009
Maybe we should just get Upton then
mikev - December 15, 2009
Ok!
thejd44 - December 15, 2009
I consider Haren a win for Arizona
because they were able to sign him to an affordable extension. To get that many years out of a legitimate ace justifies the trade, IMO. Obviously they had hoped to be more competitive during the Haren years, but to me that’s not part of the “trade itself.”
Nico - December 15, 2009
Look, I agree that the trade made sense at the time
but there is no way anyone could possibly argue that the RESULTS of the trade are good. They’ve been horrible— Arizona hasn’t been competitive in either of the seasons he’s been there. They haven’t “won.” (Well, technically the A’s haven’t either, but they look decently set to in the next few years.)
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
Isn't this a different argument?
The D-Backs have been bad, but that doesn’t make the trade bad. Haren has performed at the level established before his trade, if not slightly above. I think the D-Backs got exactly what they were asking for, making the trade a “win” for them. yes, the team sucks, but so have the A’s since the trade, and that doesn’t make the trade a “loss” for the A’s either.
el generico - December 16, 2009
Nah
Haren was a win for the D’Backs.
It’s not his fault the rest of the team took a dump.
grover - December 15, 2009
Did the rest of the team at least give a courtesy flush, first?
mrod - December 16, 2009
They definitely struck a match
grover - December 16, 2009
Nature's orange mist...
mrod - December 16, 2009
apparently Taylor is not considered a CF by anyone
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
:-(
That’s too bad. I think Sweeney is in RF to stay. So then either Taylor is in LF and neither Carter nor Doolittle plays OF for the A’s, or…I have no idea.
I think I’ll go with the latter.
Nico - December 15, 2009
well, Beane is hardly done
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
Right, but assuming he's not about to deal
Taylor, Sweeney, or Carter it’s more unclear how the corner OF will play out. (There’s also Cunningham and possibly Doolittle.)
Yes, not all prospects even pan out but since Davis is 29 and no one else plays CF as their best position, one has to assume that going forward, CF is still an unknown long-term.
Taylor and Sweeney look like “keepers” who are very, very likely to be in the big leagues from 2010 on. This would leave exactly 0 every day starting spots for Cunningham, Carter, Doolittle in the OF. Just interesting.
Nico - December 15, 2009
short term DAvis is CF, BEane has a bit of time on that one
I’m wondering what’s going to happen with 3B this coming season/
I keep thinking that another package (including someone we don’t want to see leave) will be necessary in order to trade for a good 3Bman.
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
I can't see a good 3B being available via trade
anytime soon
The Nats SHOULD trade Zimmerman, it would be the kind of move that if done right, would push Washington several years ahead, like the Haren trade did for the A’s.
But, if the move is being done right, and Rizzo is much smarter than Bowden, then the A’s are giving up elite prospect talent out the wazoo.
I want to see Dayton Moore do something stupid and trade Alex Gordon. But then Teahen was already traded and Gordon’s the only 3Bman on that roster, so that ship has sailed.
Or Omar Minaya listens to the NY media and sends David Wright packing. But then that’s even less likely and should cost him his job. Of course that’s pipe dream right there.
Or of course Brandon Freaking Wood…that would be interesting.
Blicks - December 16, 2009
Rizzo just signed Pudge for 2 years and real money.
HE ain’t THAT bright.
mikev - December 16, 2009
fields is in kc now
designatedforassignment - December 17, 2009
If Taylor played CF, he would probably be the biggest centerfielder to ever play the game.
Imagine Frank Thomas roaming the outfield….
lenscrafters - December 15, 2009
Hmm... Thomas strikes me more as a SS.
Yeah, it does seem like a stretch just based on the height/weight. I thought I recalled a scouting report suggesting it was a possibility, but the more I read up on him and the more I see his physical stats, the more I realize I must have mis-remembered.
Nico - December 15, 2009
Well when Andre the Giant played second
he looked fine to me.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
I saw a video clip today of Taylor taking grounders at SS
I believe it was at college but can’t be sure. He looked very young.
let me see if I can find it
here it is
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
Great find -- thanks
Nick - December 15, 2009
haha
the most recent comment says, “i hope the phillies dont trade him”. too late i guesss
thewhizkid - December 15, 2009
I like how you put “let me see hif I can find it” and “here it is” in the same post, like you wanted to make sure we knew you had to go search for the video. lol
CaliforniaJag - December 15, 2009
LOL
LongLiveLangerhans - December 16, 2009
that's a cute theory
but it’s not actually what happened.
I wrote about it,then realized that I hadn’t bookmarked the link, so I had to go find it. There was a lag time between “let me see if I can find it” and “here it is”.
Did you know you can do that without having to do two posts?
OaklandSi - December 16, 2009
I've done that before
micdog2001 - December 16, 2009
Dude, chill
It was a joke
CaliforniaJag - December 16, 2009
"Dude looks like a lay-dee!..."
Nico - December 16, 2009
you can definitely tell he is an outfielder
he takes a lot of time and steps to unload the baseball and throw it to 1st.
micdog2001 - December 16, 2009
I saw a picture of ten-year-old Frank Thomas
with his baseball team of ten-year-olds. Frank is about a good foot taller, and his frame equaled 2x the other individual ten-year-olds. I don’t know where to find it, but it is an amazing “team” shot.
One won lost won - December 15, 2009
Frank Thomas once saved a woman's son by lifting the car he was pinned under.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
I love how you word this.
Was the saved person also a man’s son?
iglew - December 16, 2009
He never knew his father, so essentially he was fatherless.
As we all are, unless we take a DNA test.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Frank Thomas once knocked over Mt. Davis with a HR
and then pulled it back up. I here there is video evidence for 2006.
micdog2001 - December 16, 2009
"hear" "from" 2006
dag nab it!
micdog2001 - December 16, 2009
Suzuki and Anderson
will/should be the two guys Beane locks up for years to come. Sweeney, I agree, might stick around for his D, with the possibility of improvement on offense. Davis, Buck, Cunningham, Hairston, are most likely to go first…..
Really hope there are more moves coming. I’d still like to see Duke re-signed or Bedard, to a one year deal.
mrod - December 16, 2009
Nature's orange mist...
mrod - December 16, 2009
Interesting
But a beer says Taylor and Carter play in Oakland in 2010.
grover - December 15, 2009
for the most part, the only things beer says to me are
buyyyyyy meeeee, buyyyyyyyyy me
and then
driiiiiiiiiiink me, driiiiiiiiink me
bobnothing - December 15, 2009
If the beer is talking to you...
I suggest spending more time with the vodka.
grover - December 15, 2009
oh yes, the vodka can actually hold a proper conversation
rather than just being a foul temptress
bobnothing - December 15, 2009
the only thing vodka ever said to me was,
“You can get the case of beer and the carton of cigarettes in your car and get out of there before they catch you.”
and
“Hey, Ray’s no longer in the room—you should try to sleep with his girlfriend.”
and
“Fuck that job—there’s plenty more out there.”
and
“Did you see the way he was staring at you? You should hit him over the head with me.”
and
…well, I guess the vodka talked a lot.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Sweet, sweet...
Nah, I just can’t do this. But I did really enjoy your loquacious spirits.
Faust - December 16, 2009
In your defense
Ray’s girlfriend was HAWT
mikev - December 16, 2009
I hear they said congratulations
And when you open the fridge generally there’s hoopla involved.
CaliforniaJag - December 15, 2009
I'd take you up
except i am sure you are right. And I imagine them playing left and right field.
jeffro - December 15, 2009
Please no.
Well, at least NOT opening day.
Keep service time down, please.
Blicks - December 16, 2009
Buck should be worried
Or find some other career soon.
MagicMike23 - December 15, 2009
Buck's gone.
But I was saying that before the A’s acquired a kick-ass major-league-ready OF prospect.
Nico - December 15, 2009
This trade helps barton at least in the short term
Buries Buck further in the pit of mediocrity. I’d pretty much take a free 40 man spot for him or some equally overhyped former top prospect that has disappointed. Andy Laroche please
MagicMike23 - December 15, 2009
When did AN decide the Buck will never make it back to the majors? (not just based on your comment MM23)
I know he was in BB’s doghouse this year but was he that terrible in AAA? (I’m really asking) He had success in the majors before, why couldn’t it happen again after he gets his stuff together? I agree that the possibilty of it happening in Oakland is slim but why not somewhere else?
micdog2001 - December 16, 2009
It seems like there have been several opportunities for promotion that he's been passed on.
That and with Sweeney, Davis, Hairston and now likely Taylor in the OF mix there’s just no room for him. I assume he’s coming to spring training, but he’s going to have to kick serious ass to unseat one of those guys. Both Davis and Sweeney played themselves into first dibs for a starting spot, and it sounds like they want to give Hairston a chance at starting when he’s healthy.
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
here's to kicking serious ass then
OakA'sHoney - December 16, 2009
yeah he needs to keep those child support checks flowing for you
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
i thought we determined paternity yesterday
OakA'sHoney - December 16, 2009
I know, flowing from him, to me, then to you
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
I understand that he is fallen down the A's perceived depth chart
I’m just wondering why and why people seem to think he will always suck now? I’ve decided to look up his stats myself. His AAA stats the last 2 seasons have been OK I guess (not an expert am I) but his MLB stats are not very good. I guess injuries play a big part in the last two seasons. I suppose it’s just wishful thinking on my part that he will stay healthy and return to his 2007 numbers
micdog2001 - December 16, 2009
His AAA numbers the last two years have actually been very poor
His MLE OPSs have been in the low-to-mid .600s. There’s utterly no justification for the (oft-repeated) statement that he was “passed up” for promotions this last year. He wasn’t. Other guys played significantly better than he did. The A’s promoted those guys because they want to win baseball games.
I think all the injury problems have just wrecked him, myself.
PaulThomas - December 16, 2009
His Sacramento numbers aren't very good.
Call up the whole team to compare and you’ll see he’s sort of middle of the pack, definitely not jumping out as the guy who needs a promotion.
iglew - December 16, 2009
excellent point you two, didn't think of that
it makes sense why others were higher up the chart. Now my question is, why do people think he can’t return to the player he was in 2007? Honest question. I guess 2 years is enough evidence to suggest he is that bad? I tried to look up his injury history but couldn’t find it on milb, fangraphs, or baseball reference. anyone know where to find injury history?
micdog2001 - December 17, 2009
AN a few months ago: wallace can play 3b for a few years
AN today: wallace is a DH/1B
did anything actually change besides him being traded?
xbhaskarx - December 15, 2009
Well, yeah, a lot of things:
Now Michael Taylor is a CFer, Wallace’s swing isn’t really that great when you get down to it, and Chris Carter is a better prospect than Wallace.
Nico - December 15, 2009
Well the A's confirmed their thoughts on wallace today
IMO it was blind optimism hoping the hometown guy could solve their going on several yr 3b search. The reality is, maybe wallace wasnt their preferred prospect and knew it all along and were waiting for that opportunity to make that next deal.
MagicMike23 - December 15, 2009
You have a point,
but I think the consensus a few months ago was, “Wallace will be a very good hitter, and he can probably handle 3B at a Teahan-like level for 2 or 3 years, which is better than we’ve been getting.”
I don’t think the consensus was that he was going to be good at 3B, just that he could be adequate.
Nick - December 15, 2009
Not really
Just mass rationalization painting a prettier picture of Beane.
I’m still extremely curious to see how Wallace handles 3B. Does Toronto still use turf?
grover - December 15, 2009
I thought their plan was to put him at 1b to replace overbay?
mikev - December 15, 2009
Edwin Encarnacion isn't exactly a stalwart
grover - December 15, 2009
they call him E5
which amuses me
bobnothing - December 15, 2009
You think beverages talk to you
I’m guessing pretty much anything amuses you.
grover - December 15, 2009
Well, as I mention above, I spent most of my day writing about SEO
so yes, you’re right. At the moment, it takes very little
bobnothing - December 15, 2009
Here, look at the shiny rattle
(accomplice picks bobnothing’s pocket)
Gaijin_Suketto - December 16, 2009
(meets up later with G_S at hideout)
“There’s nothing in this bad boy but coupons for lettuce and poorly-conceived knock-knock jokes.”
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
wait, where did the rattle go? Rattle!
bobnothing - December 16, 2009
If the A's got Overbay, would he instantly become Oakland's best DH?
Nico - December 15, 2009
Yes: We got insight into the A's player evaluations
Yesterday, we assumed, due to all available evidence, that the A’s believed that Wallace could play 3B for a few years. Today, we know that they don’t think that, because they have such a huge gaping hole at third that there’s no way they would have let go of Wallace unless they thought that he just wouldn’t play there. And’s it’s not like the A’s are so starved for OFers that we absolutely had to trade for Taylor.
That kind of differential can absolutely make a difference among those of us who don’t own scouting departments.
Spass30 - December 15, 2009
This is incorrect
What we know is that the A’s prefer Taylor as a prospect over Wallace. Anything else is speculation.
grover - December 15, 2009
This.
What I’m hoping is that it means Adrian Beltre is about to sign a 3 year, 27 million dollar contract with Oakland.
mikev - December 15, 2009
It now makes more sense for the A's to pursue Beltre
I don’t think the A’s were blowing smoke when they said they intended to give Wallace every chance to prove himself at 3B. It made no sense to go after Beltre while Wallace was in the organization… now, it makes some sense.
grover - December 15, 2009
Boston's going to get Beltre
I’ve already conceded this fact. Save all your blind hope for Chapman.
vignette17 - December 16, 2009
Not necessarily
Boston is going hard after Adrian Gonzalez. If they get him, they’ll have Youkilis play 3B every day, which means they wouldn’t have anywhere for Beltre to play.
CaliforniaJag - December 16, 2009
I don't know about that, grover --
I think the A’s may have preferred “Wallace the serviceable 3Bman” but not “Wallace the not-going-to-cut-it-at-3B.” I think Spass30’s point is a fair one: The A’s wanted to give Wallace every chance to show he could make it at 3B, and they have concluded that it is not likely enough after all.
Nico - December 15, 2009
I didn't say his point wasn't fair, I said it was incorrect
Billy Beane (and a goodly portion of the FO) said that the A’s intended to give Wallace every chance during ST and into the 2010 season to show that he couldn’t play at 3B. So unless the A’s have been developing a flux capacitor… Wallace wasn’t out of chances to play 3B.
It is more than likely that Beane and Co. decided that Taylor’s talent + the uncertainty of where Wallace was going to end led them to making this deal. Cool. No problem.
But that doesn’t mean Wallace has failed as a 3B prospect.
grover - December 15, 2009
Oh, I agree with that
I would expect Toronto to pick up where the A’s left off, playing Wallace at 3B until he proves conclusively that he needs to play elsewhere.
Nico - December 15, 2009
Jordan Bastian, on his twitter, disagrees
FWIW
well, to an extent, anyway.
bobnothing - December 15, 2009
I just don't think so
I just look at a sentence like “We’re going to give him every chance to show he can play third” and that just looks like a GM who has very little hope of that event actually happening trying to maintain that player’s value in the eyes of other GMs. Otherwise, he would have said the same thing that every GM says in that circumstance, which is “we absolutely think he can play there.”
Spass30 - December 15, 2009
And in my mind
you’re calling Beane a liar when you say that. That or you’re suggesting that the other 29 GMs are incredibly stupid.
I rarely presume those two things.
grover - December 15, 2009
Heh?
Lying? It’s common sense. If he’d said “I think he’s a first baseman,” then his ability to get equal talent in return for Wallace takes a nose dive, because everybody knows that he’d be stuck behind Carter.
And they would have kept playing him at third if the trade hadn’t happened, if for no other reason than there’s nowhere else in Sacramento or Oakland to play.
That’s lying?
Spass30 - December 15, 2009
Your presumptions are wrong
The majority opinion is that Wallace is destined for 1B and that Carter is a born DH. The A’s are obviously hoping that Carter can do more than DH but part of the reason they were so eager to find a team in winter ball that would play him in the OF is because he has problems around the bag at 1B.
So most teams wouldn’t think that a 1B bound Wallace would be stuck behind Carter, because they’d be pencilling in Carter at DH.
You’re also incorrect on how the Sac line-up was shaping up prior to this assumed swap.
And yes… when you accuse someone of saying one thing but meaning something else you are calling him a liar.
grover - December 15, 2009
I don't quite agree with that last sentence
For example, there’s “damning with faint praise,” which is even one interpretation of what Beane was saying about Wallace’s chances for sticking at 3B.
Nico - December 15, 2009
bingo
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
And I don't agree with that interpretation
Based on what I’ve read from multiple sources (including the A’s FO) I’m guessing there’s probably no better than a 1 in 3 chance that Wallace can stick at 3B for even the next couple years. It is almost universally accepted that ultimately (and well before he’s 30) that Wallace will end up at 1B.
All Beane’s comments did for me was confirm that the A’s realize that Wallace at 3B was/is not a sure thing. That’s honesty.
grover - December 15, 2009
"We're going to give him every chance"
is very different from “We think he can do it.” I’m not of the opinion that Beane was anything but honest about it; I am, however, of the opinion that you don’t have to read much between the lines to conclude that Beane was counting on Wallace at 3B about as much as he is counting on Chavez — “it’s our A’s first choice, but not something we expect to come through.”
Nico - December 15, 2009
Well
No other way to say it…
I can’t help what you’re reading between the lines. But Beane has made it clear that he has no expectations of Chavez in 2010 and that Eric has no future in Oakland. Ironically, in about 24 hours Wallace will most likely share that second trait with Chavez.
grover - December 15, 2009
Oy
The other reason they wanted to put Carter in the OF in winter ball was because…drum roll please…they have a first baseman that they like and want to give ABs to. Kid named Daric Barton. I’m shocked, shocked you didn’t bring that up, because it’s also the other reason that portraying Wallace as a 1B only would have dropped his trade value. With Barton at 1B and Carter at DH…you’re right, the 29 other GMs aren’t stupid.
I’m not going to talk about this lying thing anymore because it’s inane. But why don’t you enlighten me as to how I’m wrong in my assumptions about the 2010 Sacramento lineup?
Spass30 - December 15, 2009
Because, noob
I’ve spent the past two years talking about the A’s minor league system, including Daric Barton, and I don’t feel like doing a remedial course tonight.
grover - December 15, 2009
Yes of course
And I’m sure that whatever it was you said two years ago had everything to do with the 2010 3B/1B/DH quandary in Sacramento.
Spass30 - December 15, 2009
Reading comprehension
I said I spent the last two years talking about the A’s farm system… not that I talked about the farm system 2 years ago.
Very important semantical difference there.
grover - December 15, 2009
You'll have to forgive him
He’s only been here since October.
Flashfire - December 15, 2009
Freshman!
(whips out homemade wooden paddle)
Gaijin_Suketto - December 16, 2009
(whips out $29.99 Freshman-Whacking Paddle he got at Pier 1 Imports)
danmerqury - December 16, 2009
there are so many things wrong with that statement
whatever happened to an old-fashioned ass whoopin’?
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
I use to work at Pier 1
you should have seen how fast we sold through them when they went clearance
ChickenStanley - December 16, 2009
I'm not sure,
but I think they have other uses beyond fraternal initiation.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
That's not a rule
It’s not even a guideline!
grover - December 16, 2009
i think its a case of taylor becoming available
i agree with grover, i think the a’s had every intention of letting wallace play third. honestly, i think with some hard work (and all indications were that he was a hard worker), he could have been a serviceable third baseman. i think this trade is all about preferring taylor, period. they just couldn’t get him before. they acquired wallace because they wanted him. once they saw a chance to flip him for someone they wanted more, they went for it. seems totally logical to me.
guy incognito - December 15, 2009
I agree that had the Phillies wanted to trade Taylor for Holliday
last July, I think Beane would have pulled the trigger on that instead.
Nico - December 15, 2009
interesting that the Phillies were interested in Holliday
I guess they were trying to upgrade from Ibarra mid-season.
Of course, their biggest need was pitching.
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
Context is huge here
Their need for additional corner OF prospects was tiny. Tiny! Taylor is one of six – six! – legit OF prospects scheduled for AAA at the moment (Buck, Cunningham, Doolittle, Brown, Taylor, and counting Carter as a potential LF).
Their need for a third baseman is enormous. There’s nobody in the system who is up for the task currently, other than maybe Cardenas. Or I hear there’s this Donaldson guy…
If you think that Billy Beane looked at that surplus of OFers and complete lack of third baggers and gauged it only on talent, basically saying “Eh, Taylor’s a tick better than Wallace. He’s outta here,” I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Spass30 - December 15, 2009
I don't think
Buck really qualifies as a “prospect” anymore….sorry.
oakballnack - December 15, 2009
Splitting hairs here
Okay, yes, Travis Buck is not eligible for Rookie of the Year in 2010. You got me.
Spass30 - December 15, 2009
Wow, that comment is almost 'toonian
JediLeroy - December 16, 2009
why does everyone hate Buck now?
micdog2001 - December 16, 2009
Because it's Christmas and Buck hates puppies
grover - December 16, 2009
but he likes kitties....meow!
OakA'sHoney - December 16, 2009
please submit evidence
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
i can email you the photos but you can't show them to anyome, k?
OakA'sHoney - December 16, 2009
sure
(hehehehehehehehe)
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
can you back that up with numbers ;-)
micdog2001 - December 16, 2009
Numbers
Link.
grover - December 16, 2009
Because he now has two years of mediocre
numbers in Sacramento.
iglew - December 16, 2009
he will only be 26 years old in the 2010
without knowing his exact injury history, because i can’t find it, I’m hoping he will be healthy enough to get back to being good at baseball. Obviously I could be dead wrong and I have no proof, only time will tell.
micdog2001 - December 17, 2009
I'd love to see him light up AAA and
earn his way back on to the team. I think we’d all like that.
But I don’t want to see him promoted just because we think he might be good again and he’s more popular than Matt Carson, Eric Patterson, Aaron Cunningham, etc.
iglew - December 17, 2009
Eh
If he genuinely thought Taylor is the better player— and that does by and large seem to be the consensus— then getting the BPA and worrying about sorting players into positions later makes at least a certain amount of strategic sense. Right now the A’s major league team has no truly elite position players, and really only one guy with the potential to become one (Kurt Suzuki, if his hitting trends upward).
It’s possible to build a winning team without any truly elite players (the 2006 A’s were one, for instance) but it’s an uphill battle.
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
wasn't Frank Thomas "elite" in 2006?
micdog2001 - December 16, 2009
OK... just to prove a point
Buck is not a prospect and he seems to have fallen out of favor within the organization. Doolittle hurt his knee and is probably one more Barton flop from moving back to 1B. Brown still has contact issues and can’t stay healthy for a full season. Cunningham hasn’t shown he’s more than a 4th OFer in the Show. Carter has spent the bulk of his pro career playing in the infield and could end up at DH.
I’m sorry, you were saying something about legit OF depth?
You’re right… Hell, I’ve been harping on the need to find a new 3B for too long to remember. And I happen to think that Wallace has a shot at sticking at 3B for a while, at least long enough for Oakland to figure out what (if anything) it has in Christian/Coleman/Green. However, there’s also a very good chance that Wallace won’t be able to hack it at the hot corner and while his bat might be great the opportunity to land an athlete that can hit (like Taylor) might be too appealing to say no.
It is obvious that the A’s prefer Taylor as a prospect over Wallace. Fine.
But we simply don’t have the information to draw any conclusions about Wallace’s defensive ability at 3B. He’s as legit a 3B prospect now as he was 72 hours ago.
grover - December 15, 2009
This is ridiculously pedantic
Look me straight in the electronic eye and tell me we didn’t have legit OF prospect depth before this trade.
Fine, ignore Buck for arbitrary, nonrelative PA reasons. Barton’s ability to hold on at first has nothing to do with Doolittle’s promise or his ability to play in the outfield. Brown may have contact issues, but he might have more pure power potential than Taylor and he can play CF. Cunningham hasn’t had a fair shot in the big show and you know it. And you subtly sidestepped any issue of Carter’s ability in the OF because it’s unknown, not because it’s proven to be inadequate.
And Taylor has diabetes and power questions and he’s been slightly old for each level and Stanford players are AAAA fodder nine times out of ten.
Gee, wasn’t that fun.
Spass30 - December 15, 2009
OK
The A’s had lots of guys who played for the organization in the minors.
That’s not the same as they had/have 6 legitimate starting caliber OF prospects in the minors.
grover - December 15, 2009
All righty then
If you’re not interested in being objective, I’m not interested in continuing the conversation. Night!
Spass30 - December 15, 2009
I used to write about the A's farm system here on AN
What do you bring to the table?
grover - December 15, 2009
Chicken soup with lots of organic vegetables is what I bring to the table.
I will leave the minor league stuff to people like you.
Eastbayjim - December 15, 2009
Sounds like good soup
The minor league system is not my exclusive domain, in fact I encourage everyone to spend as much time as they want reading about and following the A’s minor league teams. Better yet, everyone with even an fleeting interest in minor league prospects should go out and purchase John Sickels’ yearly Minor League Prospect book.
Costs about $30 and you can order it online by going to minorleagueball, a member of the SB Nation.
grover - December 16, 2009
a different opinion than yours?
flipgatey3 - December 16, 2009
And he's entitled to that opinion
However, just ‘cause he gets to have an opinion doesn’t mean it’s tethered to anything resembling fact.
Hell, you could say the same thing about my opinions except I have shown through previous discussions an ability to show evidence to support my position.
Usually.
grover - December 16, 2009
Plus you have that evil thing going for you
Daniel777 - December 16, 2009
I was once tethered to a dead possum for three months.
I won that bet.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
But what did the possum win?
monkeyball - December 16, 2009
he got to hang out with me for three months.
My castoffs are…quite humbly, “worth it.”
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
So the possum made for a good wingman?
LoneStranger - December 17, 2009
Inverse ad hominem
anyone? Well, sort of.
humdinger - December 16, 2009
The real question is
What do you bring to the table that Goldstein, Sickels, Law, Lockhard, Hulet, Eisenberg and every other available source don’t?
Because I’m pretty sure that that group would agree pretty quickly that the A’s have good corner OF prospect depth. And then there’s you, o mighty unpaid blog writer, who seems to disagree. Geez, tough call there.
Spass30 - December 16, 2009
Kindly name all the guys who are potentially PLUS corner outfielders in the system for the class.
mikev - December 16, 2009
"Plus" meaning what?
3 WAR? 4 WAR?
Yes, kitten, Doolittle, Cunningham, Brown, Carter if they stick him out there, Desme, even Dixon have that potential. Varying degrees of it, of course, but each of their upsides is within that range.
Now, is Taylor a better prospect than them all? Yeah. He is. That wasn’t the issue. Never was.
Spass30 - December 16, 2009
So all 6 guys you listed are going to be at least as good as Curtis Granderson?
Okay.
mikev - December 16, 2009
Did I say that?
Read it again, this time slowly. What words might you have missed?
Spass30 - December 16, 2009
You said they all have 3 WAR/4WAR potential.
Granderson has been worth 3.7 and 3.4 WAR the past two seasons.
Keep up, kitten.
mikev - December 16, 2009
Might want to blow the dust off that Oxford English sitting on your shelf
And look up the meaning of “potential.”
Spass30 - December 16, 2009
It's funny when someone tries to deflect the point by arguing the defintion of "potential"
jeffro - December 16, 2009
What's potential, precious?
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
I am not sure, kitten
jeffro - December 16, 2009
(I'm fairly certain Sam did not call Gollum "kitten")
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
What's new, pussycat?
LoneStranger - December 16, 2009
whoa ooo ooo ooo
jeffro - December 16, 2009
I see
So to you, “potential” means the same thing as “is going to be at least as good as”? Good to know for future reference.
Spass30 - December 16, 2009
you really need to ease up on the snark throttle.
You’re gonna choke it out.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
He's also not very good at it.
mikev - December 16, 2009
I see three people in this conversation
who aren’t very good at it.
Nico - December 16, 2009
I see a pyramid scheme of snark
DMOAS - December 16, 2009
Snarky Madoff.
LoneStranger - December 17, 2009
Is snark that guy from Thundercats?
jeffro - December 16, 2009
No
Wait, mixed up a letter……
Flashfire - December 16, 2009
You're right
Too much snark is bad for the brain. Throw on a little Animal Collective…disengaging snark…now.
Spass30 - December 16, 2009
(worse for the soul)
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
I'd rather listen to Phil Collings than Animal Collective
bobnothing - December 16, 2009
Well
That’s just, like, your opinion, man.
Spass30 - December 16, 2009
nice marmet.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
I think we have a Little Lebowski Urban Achiever on our hands!
jeffro - December 16, 2009
No
Next question
jeffro - December 16, 2009
what the fastest land animal?
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
A fish!!!!
Or do I need to know the exact breed?
-Cindi
Nico - December 16, 2009
Rajai Davis
jeffro - December 16, 2009
OK
Cunningham
Lockard: Could end up an average caliber starting OF
Sickels: Ditto
Goldstein: Ditto
Hulet: Ditto
BA: Ditto
Most likely scenario: Cunningham becomes a good 4th OF
Doolittle
There are questions about his actual power ability, and everyone likes him much better at 1B. Goldstein’s perfect world projection had him as an average offensive 1B with plus defense. No one else considers him a plus prospect because of the questions (still unanswered) about his power.
Carter
Lockard and Sickels thinks there’s a chance Carter could play in the OF. No one likes his glove at 1B. Everyone loves his bat but Goldstein’s perfect projection has Carter at DH and BA is all but declaring him a DH. Hulet thinks he stays at 1B. So Carter might be a plus prospect… but not in the OF.
Kindly note the correct spelling of “Lockard”.
grover - December 16, 2009
Apologies to M. Lockard
But I’m still right. All those experts would still grade the A’s as having good corner OF prospect depth.
I think you know it, too, hence all the superficial tap-dancing here.
Spass30 - December 16, 2009
Admittedly, the misspelled version
works better in limericks.
iglew - December 16, 2009
Ha!
Spass30 - December 16, 2009
No, you're not
All the experts are saying Cunningham looks like a back-up, not a starter… although he is young enough to have a chance at more.
And no one projects either Doolittle or Carter in the OF.
grover - December 16, 2009
unpaid means nothing
people don’t have t be paid to have studied something.
Future Ed - December 16, 2009
say, for instance, grad school.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Can we get over the idea that contribution to this site makes one's opinions more valid
This is not the first time I have seen this argument and it wreaks of vanity. I appreciate your contributions and thank you for them, but they, in and of themselves, do not make your opinions or arguments any more valid.
DrDoom - December 16, 2009
mainly for iglew
from American Heritage:
“The past tense and past participle of wreak is wreaked, not wrought, which is an alternative past tense and past participle of work.”
huh.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
So when I work, I wreak havoc?
Yeah, sounds about right.
Nico - December 16, 2009
Um, OK.
I’m pleased that you didn’t use Random House, and I’m pleased that you referred to the dictionary by its proper name instead of its online pseudonym.
But I would have thought that the interesting point here is using “wreak” instead of “reek”, not a random observation about a related word that no one even thought about using here.
iglew - December 16, 2009
You misunderstand
My contributions are more valid in this instance because they’re researched.
Technically, we’re all contributing to the wonder that is AN.
grover - December 16, 2009
I can see how someone might misconstrue
what you said, but this is what I interpreted as you actually meaning.
DMOAS - December 16, 2009
furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
50 days until Spring Training
give or take, I didn’t look it up
Faust - December 16, 2009
I left that statement open to misinterpretation
grover - December 16, 2009
On accident!!!
Sheesh…almost did it again.
grover - December 16, 2009
Aren't we all just really an accidental explosion hurtling through time and space?
jeffro - December 16, 2009
dust in the wind.
all we are is dust in the wind.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
I'm not.
mikev - December 16, 2009
Very true
grover - December 16, 2009
Also
grover: “Buck…seems to have fallen out of favor with the organization”
Billy Beane, Athletics Nation interview: “But we still think very highly of (Travis Buck)”
That Billy! Whatta liar.
Spass30 - December 15, 2009
Well, he didn't say "as a player."
Nico - December 15, 2009
Or in playing in the A's organization
They could think highly of his trade value.
DMOAS - December 15, 2009
Billy Beane is a liar because he's a good poker player
The fact that he’s playing poker with baseball players and contracts instead of cards and chips doesn’t mean a damn thing. Good poker players are good liars at the poker table, and if Mr. Beane weren’t, his ass would have hit the pavement a long time ago!
Gaijin_Suketto - December 16, 2009
Brown… can’t stay healthy for a full season.
He stayed healthy for all of 2008, and missed about 5 games at the end of 2007 with a fluky finger dislocation (after missing no time in college or the pros up until then).
Contact issues, yes, but this injury plaint is ludicrous.
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
I thought Brown missed about 3 weeks in 08
Went back to check the games played and it turns out I’ve had another moment of senility. My apologies to Mr. Brown.
grover - December 16, 2009
I'm with Grover on this one
Carter is not going to play in the majors as and OF, and if he does, he’s not going to be a good one. His future is at 1B. And other than him, you take Michael Taylor easily over any of those other guys, and twice on Sundays. Easily. The point isn’t to acquire as many pretty good prospects as you can, it’s to get as many great ones as you can, because pretty good prospects turn into marginal players in the majors while great ones have the chance to turn into the guys who actually are difference-makers. None of Buck, Cunningham, Doolittle, Brown, are going to be difference-makers, or if they do, it’s going to be because of a quantum leap, and not because of talents they currently show. Some of them may turn out to be serviceable, but I don’t think there are any future all star caliber players in that group. Taylor has a chance to be that. To answer a question above me, I will look one in the eye and say we didn’t have legit OF prospect depth before this trade. We had/have guys who will play in the majors – we didn’t have anybody who has a chance to make a difference.
Or maybe I don’t know who I agree with, because I’m not sure who is arguing what, but re: Wallace, my impression is he has the ability to stand at third and catch balls hit at him for a few years, then he inevitably becomes a 1B/DH. In short a defensive liability at third for a few years but not catastrophically so, then a guy with essentially no defensive value. I think most A’s fans will honestly say that they wanted to believe he could play third but nobody was exactly excited about the idea. I don’t believe in his power – I think Wallace’s upside is what we hoped Daric Barton would be. That’s not a bad thing, and as an A’s fan I was willing to be excited about that, but this is better. In short on December 15th 2009 (though it’s now the 16th) I love this trade.
jdr - December 16, 2009
I really, really hate this "I don't think there are any future all-stars" line
God I hate that.
A year ago, did you consider Andrew Bailey a future All-Star? How ‘bout Shane Victorino? A couple of teams thought he was so far from an All-Star that they didn’t bother wasting a 40-man roster spot on him.
Every one of the players spass listed has the theoretical upside of an All-Star. Is it likely? Eh, maybe not. But it’s not likely that ANY prospect will be that good, other than maybe Jason Heyward. “Potential” is as good as you’re going to get.
I mean, fuck, Ryan Sweeney was a throw-in to the Swisher trade and he was over 4 WAR this year. How people can continue to act like they know exactly what players’ “upsides” are is just beyond my ken. It’s basically complete bunkum. Players who perform well in the minors have the upside of performing well in the majors.
This is not to say that this was a bad trade— I’m pretty happy with it, actually. But the notion that it somehow had to be made because of the (projected, future) failings of the minor league outfield crew is flat-out ridonkulous. The reason you make it is because Michael Taylor is better than Brett Wallace and neither one of them really fills a position of need.
PaulThomas - December 16, 2009
Since I'm busy squabbling with Paul on another topic elsewhere,
I’m happy to say that I completely agree with him on this post.
iglew - December 16, 2009
+2
+1 for an entertaining rant that I agree with, and another +1 for the use of the word “bunkum.”
Faust - December 16, 2009
And "beyond my ken"
outside of the Sound of Music.
iglew - December 16, 2009
PT a few months ago: Wallace is a DH/1B
So— nope!
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
There are a number of people who thought that at the time of the trade
Though, very few of those people are making the “now the A’s believe he can’t play third” claims. I was in the wishful thinking crowd, but this trade was definitely more about “we can get a better player” than “he can’t play third”.
DMOAS - December 15, 2009
Exactly
grover - December 15, 2009
well
i think you might be right twice there…because it is entirely possible that he can’t play third. i wanted to believe he could and made posts saying as much, but it’s not like i (or any of us) see the guy work out every single day.
i also think it’s about taylor being a better prospect than wallace.
so…i think you are right for 2 reasons, one being that people are biased, and that they did it because taylor is better. double the fun.
flipgatey3 - December 16, 2009
Ditto
designatedforassignment - December 17, 2009
Turns out we're not all completely unbiased.
Shocking
travdog6 - December 15, 2009
and carlos gonzalez sucks
as does huston street
Future Ed - December 16, 2009
Do you guys think this is entirely coincidental? Honest question.
(Posted something very similar in a previous thread just as it was being abandoned, my apologies if you see this twice but I am curious what the community’s thoughts are on this angle:)
Approximately 7% of Major League baseball players and 12% of the United States are African-Americans.
All in the last two years, I believe, the A’s have acquired:
Rajai Davis, Scott Hairston, Eric Patterson, perhaps joined on the major-league roster in the not-too-distant future by:
Chris Carter
Michael Taylor
Jemile Weeks
Tyson Ross
Corey Wimberly
Tyler Ladendorf
Jeremy Barfield
Rashun Dixon
Thoughts (I realize this is a difficult topic for some people to discuss, but I think I’m approaching it thoughtfully and respectfully):
*That’s probably now the best collection of minor-league African-American talent in the game.
*I can’t think of a team that has four African-American position-playing starters, but the A’s definitely could in two to three years.
*If you’ve ever been the only member of your race in a large group, you probably felt like you stick out. Some people feel less comfortable in that situation. Many African-American ballplayers come up through the farm system as the only American-born black player on their teams. Conversely, the A’s have acquired more than 10 African-American players in their system the last two seasons.
*The city of Oakland is one of the most ethnically diverse in the country, and roughly 30% of the city is African-American. It always made sense to cultivate diverse talent, especially in this market, and I remember growing up and watching Dave Hendu, Rickey, Dave Stewart, and Dave Parker on the 1989-1990 A’s teams I idolized. But somehow the organization strayed from that in this decade and fielded a few teams this decade that weren’t very ethnically diverse at all. I don’t think that ever makes sense, but especially in this market. In terms of on-the-field benefits, I could see that increased diversity making the A’s a more attractive destination for free agents someday down the road.
notsellingjeans - December 15, 2009
Don't forget Tyreace House
TBRMKane - December 15, 2009
I think we can forget Tyreace House.
He slugged .306 last year
travdog6 - December 15, 2009
I think you mean he "slugged" .306
You know…like Bobby Crosby “hit” .223 last year?
CaliforniaJag - December 15, 2009
I highly doubt Beane is thinking,
“I could acquire John White and Mark Black. White’s better, but I’ll need to acquire Black to please Oakland fans.” He’s acquiring talented baseball players not minorities.
NateHST - December 15, 2009
On the A's, just being a good hitter makes you a minority.
Nico - December 15, 2009
hat tip
SeanR - December 15, 2009
In the state of California, asian, African American, white (cause I can't spell causcasion) , latin American are all minorities
Eastbayjim - December 15, 2009
I'd rather see him get Mark White or John Black
but not Jim Blue that guy sucks.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
vida was pretty good though
mikev - December 15, 2009
Jim is his untalented nephew
sirbed - December 15, 2009
You better watch what you say about Jim Blue!
And leave Carlos Verde out of this discussion!
jeffro - December 16, 2009
Does this mean Grant Green is now the minority?
mrod - December 16, 2009
These guys will play for the San Jose A's
richwol1 - December 15, 2009
I think we'll see them play in the coliseum
assuming Beane doesn’t trade them first
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
Michael Taylor and Chris Carter
Will play in Oakland… assuming San Jose ever even happens, it wouldn’t be until 2013 at the earliest.
jeffro - December 16, 2009
wow
Never in a million years would I have guessed Tyler Ladendorf was african american.
SeanR - December 15, 2009
Was it the umlaut over the "o" that threw you?
Nico - December 15, 2009
+1
flipgatey3 - December 16, 2009
Interesting Observation...
but i think you came to the wrong conclusion.
A better conclusion may be to say that Beane is thinking that he’s found another ‘undervalued market’ to tap into. Many teams are focusing their efforts on scouting College, Latin, and Asian markets.
Maybe Beane thinks that this scouting focus has caused the value of some African-Americans to go unnoticed and thus become under-valued.
jambolyajones - December 15, 2009
Eh?
Jemile Weeks was a first-round pick. Michael Taylor played for a top 10 college baseball program. You could say similar things about the rest of the group.
These are not exactly diamonds in the rough here. They might be diamonds (let’s hope so) but… it’s not like they went undrafted or something. Every one of those guys was a first 10 rounds pick, and except for Barfield (who sucks and shouldn’t be on there) and Dixon (who was considered a difficult sign because he had a football scholarship offer), they were in the first 5.
Personally, I think it’s every bit as much of a coincidence as it was when the team barely had any black players/prospects a few years ago.
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
Agree on coincidence
Moreover, though, do we care? I don’t care if they’re pink and purple, I want to see good baseball players
cuppingmaster - December 15, 2009
I care.
I think it was bad for the team’s image when it was 100% white. Even though it was not racially motivated, just the fact that it was there and people could draw the wrong conclusion (possibly egged on by certain journalists) was a negative.
I think this is far more of an issue among casual fans or non-fans than it is among real baseball fans, but their opinion matters to me too. If a chunk of the population has a vague sense that the A’s team is an all-whitey institution, that’s bad for the city.
iglew - December 16, 2009
especially a city as multicultural as the OAK.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
I think you're right about casual fans.
I still have people say to me “that team is a bunch of fat, slow, boring white guys.” If that was ever even partially true, it’s not now, but that’s still the impression of a lot of people.
DDroney - December 16, 2009
That's what locals tell you or non-locals?
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
Well, in that case, claiming Rajai Davis on waivers for that reason made sense
since he’s black and “exciting.”
But… you don’t draft based on that perception. Casual fans couldn’t care less about the MLB draft.
PaulThomas - December 16, 2009
At one point, the only black member was the trainer (Sales)
…no one on the 25-man roster! I figured it was just one of the cosmic convergences, due for a similar divergence.
Cal is well over 50% Asian students now…I don’t see a 50% Asian basketball team!
One won lost won - December 16, 2009
Basketball is atypical though
There are significant ethnic differences in average height (with Asians being on the “short” end of the stick, heh heh heh), and height is the most important “skill” in the sport…
Of course, put a billion people together (even if they’re pretty short on average) and you’ll still come out with a few Yao Mings and Max Zhangs…
PaulThomas - December 16, 2009
Okay, not to poke at you or anything...
but height is not a skill, Paul. You can’t teach height like you can teach other “skills”….dribbling, passing, rebounding position, setting picks, shooting, etc….and any of those things can most certainly be more important than height.
Height is more an inherent prerequisite to the game, but not a skill. And even then, short guys still have made it in the college ranks & NBA Okay, that’s all I wanted to say…..
mrod - December 16, 2009
That's why he put height in quotes.
It’s not really a skill, but it’s a pretty significant requirement for basketball players.
mikev - December 16, 2009
At the time that Van Gogh was alive
the Dutch were among the shortest people in Europe, on average.
Now, they are the tallest in Europe, on average.
The Frenchmen who “stormed the Bastille” in 1789. barely averaged over five foot tall.
Access to protein in your diet as you grow up has a lot to do with how tall you grow. The Japanese post war, significantly taller than pre-WWII.
One won lost won - December 19, 2009
Barfield could be a good sleeper candidate
He’s big, toolsy and put up OK stats at KC. His numbers trended downwards after a very good start. I wouldn’t be shocked if he broke out in a major way moving to Stockton next year.
vignette17 - December 16, 2009
I think it's mostly coincidence, but
there’s also some larger trends that correlate with it. For example, when Beane was focusing on college players in the draft, that tilted him toward white players because black players are more likely to be signed out of high school.
For various subtle reasons* different player profiles have slightly different racial proportions. For a while Beane was going after types of players that were slightly more white; now he’s going after types that are slightly more black.
*In case anyone is thinking of going there, no, I don’t think it’s genetic.
iglew - December 16, 2009
I didn't reach a conclusion; just food for thought.
I simply think it’s an interesting observation of recent acquisitions to ponder, and I appreciate the responses that did just that – like yours, jambolyajones.
Just two years ago, this team had 0 African-Americans on the 40-man roster; in a few years it looks like 25% of the active roster could be African-American. That’s a pretty dramatic shift.
notsellingjeans - December 16, 2009
I liked the move for the same reason that pretty much everyone else likes it
Wallace can’t play 3B and Taylor can play RF.
Now there really are no 3B prospects in the system but it’s not completely hopeless because there is still Cardenas and Donaldson. I’d like to see Donaldson work on catching until it’s universally decided that he can’t stick there. At this point, I’d like to see Cardenas start next season playing 3B full time in Sacramento with Weeks being groomed as the A’s future 2B. Use McPherson, Chavez and Fox to get through a likely miserable first half of the season. If Cardenas succeeds, bring him up.
NateHST - December 15, 2009
DING, DING, DING
jeffro - December 16, 2009
Okay I've done about an hour of research and....(like anyone cares)
I like this trade. I can’t find anyone with any negative thoughts about Taylor and it seems he’s more athletic than Wallace.
An outfield of Taylor/Davis/Sweeney should be fun to watch and I really only have two concerns (well two concerns about baseball) who plays third base and where do the A’s get power?
I’m hoping Beane makes a move for a third baseman and I guess Hairston plays the DH role and bats 3rd or 4th. Hmm the pitching better be pretty good or wins might be hard to find.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
I'll pretend to care
Feel better?
grover - December 15, 2009
a lot
mikev - December 15, 2009
I can die happy now
Boom! (a body drops to the floor)
sirbed - December 15, 2009
I win!
I totally had Sirbed in December 2009 with a gun!
Dead pools rock!
Gaijin_Suketto - December 16, 2009
damn.
I had bobnothing in a in a horribly disfiguring ladling accident.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Don't you live in Florida?
And work?
What the hell are you doing up at 4:30 am? Or did I miss something?
vegAN ryAN - December 16, 2009
I quit work, though I'm here right now.
Not working tends to bring out strange sleeping patterns for me. Like up until 6pm, sleep until 2am…that sort of thing. I should be back in CA for the start of the 2010 season.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Yay!
iglew - December 16, 2009
Hey big move for you there Bloom
Well we know how much you hated Florida so good luck on getting out of there and getting to live somewhere you enjoy.
sirbed - December 16, 2009
Bloom hated Florida?
Where did you get that idea? Can you cite a post or something? because I totally didn’t get that impression.
iglew - December 16, 2009
nah, if I died in an accident, it would be as unspectacular and underwelming as the rest of my life
likely I’d fall off a log, and people would say, hm, it really is that easy
bobnothing - December 16, 2009
I'm insulted
You can’t see me dead?
Faust - December 16, 2009
Hairston at DH?
Ugh…well, I guess that’s not any worse than what we have. Still…I’d expect Taylor to start in Sacramento.
CaliforniaJag - December 15, 2009
I love Taylor
And goats and vodka are clearly performance enhancers cuz Nico is spot on about Inge, IMO. I LOVE Inge, love love love love him, he is a money player and vet presence and I hope it happens.
Wallace, do you think he’ll get to the bigs faster with the Jays or will they convert him to another position and take some time to kind of start his ass over defensively? If it weren’t Taylor I might be pissed to holy hell but this looks more than reasonable…. Buck is fucked, he better pack his bags now. Seems like that guy is about to be officially run out of town, what is it 4 years in the making? I hope he gets a shot elsewhere too, maybe change o’scene will do him clean..
emperor nobody - December 15, 2009
goats and vodka
that’s how I got through college.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
What the heck was your major?
Nico - December 15, 2009
goat fucking lol jk
TBRMKane - December 15, 2009
no TBRMKane
that was my minor
sirbed - December 15, 2009
Or was a minor?
Nico - December 15, 2009
Well it was a minor scanal
and it did get me kicked off the DeVry Institute of Trucking – Guam Campus so I had to go to my second choice the University of Missouri…. Go Jayhawks!
sirbed - December 15, 2009
I couldn't get into DeVry-Guam
so I had to settle for UC Berkeley.
Nico - December 15, 2009
I couldn't get in there
so I had to settle for making my cousins give me Cal t-shirts.
mikev - December 15, 2009
Dang.
I could have saved a bunch of tuition.
Nico - December 15, 2009
it's a sweet deal
and people even yell GO BEARS when I wear it
mikev - December 15, 2009
I often yell GO A's when I see someone
wearing A’s gear. But then when I’m back visiting the Bay Area I find I have to suppress the urge because it’s kind of stupid here.
iglew - December 16, 2009
In former Soviet Berkeley, bears yell GO PEOPLE when you wear it.
monkeyball - December 16, 2009
I hope to save up enough Budweiser bottle caps
so my kids can go to DeVry-Guam and not get stuck at Kansas like their old man.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
I agree.
They’re a terrible band.
Nico - December 15, 2009
I can't listen to Point of Know Return anymore without seeing that State Farm commercial in my head.
danmerqury - December 15, 2009
Gah! That's it!
I knew I knew that song from somewhere.
UncleLeo - December 16, 2009
uh oh, I think I got some competition on this site now
for working prog rock references into comment threads
I better get into this Polish jazz-rock phase I been holding off on… you won’t beat me to the Czeslaw Niemens and Laboratorium references too mister.
carry on, wayward son!
emperor nobody - December 16, 2009
I know when you go to KU
they play “Dust in the wind” all day long on campus.
Kind of a crappy school fight song if you ask me.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
Like Queensryche's Silent Lucidity
it sucks when bands are judged and known by the one very uncharacteristic song that became a huge hit.
Come to think of it, almost all of Genesis’s post-Gabriel 80’s output fell to the same fate.
danmerqury - December 15, 2009
Well I'm kidding about Kansas as that's the only song
that I know.
Genesis is my favorite band and I like all their music although my favorite is that post-Gabriel stuff. They got into the Rock N’ Roll Hall of Fame today.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
post-Gabriel Genesis is your favorite band?
I’ve been trying to write some sort of snarky little comment here for about the last ten minutes, but I can’t, because I’m angry.
And I’m in the wrong for being angry, too, because there’s no reason I should be pissed off at you for liking post-Gabriel Genesis and Harry Truman, other than my complete and utter loathing of post-Gabriel Genesis and Harry Truman.
So rather than be even more of a negative turdbucket here, I’m going to give you fair warning that someday, you and I are going to agree on something significant and real, and when that glorious day comes, I’m going to create fifty bogus accounts and recommend it fifty times, in your honor.
Gaijin_Suketto - December 16, 2009
Phil Collins is a GOD.
of course, he’s a god of mediocrity, but still…
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
he is responsible for some of the worst lyrics ever penned
on one hand, I like his bring of the baldness, on the other hand, he might be related to Satan. and not in the ‘makes you rock’ way.
bobnothing - December 16, 2009
There's a girl that's been on my mind...
all the time!
Su-su-sudio!
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
This might be the single worst moment in human history
though, I do like the phrase
“i did not make this video copyrighted to phil collins and his interns.”
bobnothing - December 16, 2009
The only Genesis I like
is a Sega.
JediLeroy - December 16, 2009
I was always rather fond of Zombies Ate My Neighbors
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
In Former Soviet Union Zombies.. wait
that’s much too hard
JediLeroy - December 16, 2009
mb would've pulled it off.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
TWHS
monkeyball - December 16, 2009
come on friends
A Trick of the Tail is a magnificent record and they saved their asses with that one…when Pete left they were left for dead by the press. Wind & Wuthering is also fantastic, come on All In a Mouse’s Night, One for the Vine are great epic songs. Yeah the pabulum started to creep in with Afterglow but even that is a pretty song. IMO the true spirit of the old days lives most in Steve, and when he took off they really went downhill precipitously IMO. The last record I can get into whatsoever is Abacab, because you almost hadda admire them for trying to integrate Earth Wind and Fire into the band.
That said, it’s all about The Lamb (probably best & most out there concept record ever done where you still got the story somehow) and that’s IT, pun intended. I have met all those guys more than once except Steve (never met him) and they are all aces except PC, who I don’t think liked me because I made fun of him and the other guys laughed at him (one of the best moments of my life, actually).
Pete’s crazy, just out there, but in a good way. He was super nice to me and one afternoon took me on a journey to New Jersey which I’ll always treasure the memory of… someday you guys’ll meet me at a Nico thing or whatever and I’ll tell you Gabes stories aplenty.
emperor nobody - December 16, 2009
ok ok i agree with you about Trick and Wind
Though I think MR and TB were a lot more responsible for the sound than they get credit for. Smallcreep’s Day was a more interesting album than anything Hackett ever did.
Duke, Abacab, and Genesis are really good albums, if you don’t think of them as GENESIS albums but rather works done by a different band.
I’d love to hear your PG stories some time, I have a few of my own (most of them second-hand I admit). As for him being out there, his record label didn’t want to release his third album because it was so weird and they asked him if he had been institutionalized.
And though I love Lamb, Selling England By the Pound is their best, an album I can play for women (my wife loves it), unlike most prog.
jakarta - December 16, 2009
That was an awesome post Gaijin_Suketto
I look forward to the day when agree on something really significant.
Now I have to go rock out to “Land of Confusion” and dust off my Harry Truman bust.
sirbed - December 16, 2009
Hey, you like Joe Posnanski, right?
I love the sh** out of Joe Posnanski.
Maybe that’s the agreeance point?
Gaijin_Suketto - December 16, 2009
I think I've read every word Joe has
written since 1997 and he’s one of my all time favorite sports writers.
Oh and as far as Genesis I love the Peter Gabriel stuff too it’s just he quit the band when I was 1 so I grew up with the Phil stuff but I love the “Foxtrot” album and “Firth of Fifth” is one of my favorite Genesis songs.
sirbed - December 16, 2009
She seems to have an invisible touch yeah
She reaches in, and grabs right hold of your heart
She seems to have an invisible touch yeah
It takes control and slowly tears you apart.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
I think I dated her my junior year at KU
sirbed - December 16, 2009
We're cool then...
I respect early Genesis and the only bad thing I can say about them is they’re not my cup of tea.
As for the other guy, I had no problem with him until that South Park episode opened my eyes. My fiery hatred of the dolphins is only now starting to subside.
Gaijin_Suketto - December 17, 2009
I like Joe Raposo.
LoneStranger - December 17, 2009
Isn't he the guy who wrote all those
Sesame Street songs?
iglew - December 17, 2009
Phil Collins and Iggy Pop in the HoF on the same day
fearful symmetries in that concept. Imagine if the Stooges did a cover record of all G tunes, Iggy singing The Battle of Epping Forest and Burning Rope.
emperor nobody - December 16, 2009
It makes me think of
“Cust in the win”
iglew - December 16, 2009
link
monkeyball - December 16, 2009
that monkey's a musical genius.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
a quick overview of the interludes...
Holliday in Alameda was under-appreciated by me at the time.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
lol
TBRMKane - December 15, 2009
Curried Goat and it's influence on North Dakota
sirbed - December 15, 2009
Ah yes. I was going back and forth
between that and Humanities before I made the safer choice.
Nico - December 15, 2009
at least you didn't major in humanities at a
prestigious and potentially very expensive school and then go make signs.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Ah, so you must be well-acquainted with
the Darin Erstad theory.
iglew - December 16, 2009
Greg Brady -- the forgotten years
Nick - December 15, 2009
goats and vodka
is how i got kicked out of college
TheDream - December 15, 2009
Strange
That’s how I got in to college.
Then again… I wasn’t the one in the picture with the goats!
grover - December 15, 2009
Hey you said you burned that!
When will this ever end I mean it was just the one time I swear!
sirbed - December 15, 2009
Did you ever stop to think that I could have been referring to someone else?
Your ego is getting in the way of your attempts to appear innocent.
grover - December 15, 2009
That poor goat has got to be getting sore
if I wasn’t the only one.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
Go ask PT about reasonable doubt
You’re killing yourself here.
grover - December 15, 2009
Damn I might need a lawyer
is Matlock still alive?
sirbed - December 15, 2009
Now, for $10,000, he'll sit behind us at the trial.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
I've seen the photos
If you look at them as a flip book, you seem to age several years including beard growth. The goats seem to get younger. I’m thinking it’s not just “one time”.
DMOAS - December 15, 2009
After talking to my lawyer Mr.Matlock
I’m prepared to say that photoshop is an amazing tool oh and those pictures of me and Tiger Woods are also fake.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
Wait!!! We traded Wallace for Goats and Vodka?
Does the goat play or is Bean just hedging inflation?
Ovale Fan - December 15, 2009
Sweeney
I’m probably wrong, but I think 2010 is the year Sweeney breaks out as a power hitter. I also think Taylor starts the season on the Major League club. The fourth outfielder will depend on trades. But right now, the A’s can offer Hairston, Buck, Cunningham and Patterson…or Rajai Davis replacing Hairston in a trade scenario, plus Demel if necessary to get a decent starting pitcher or a third baseman.
richwol1 - December 15, 2009
Are you suggesting
Sweeney will tweak his swing to hit for the fences?
hishnik - December 15, 2009
If Sweeney develops power
I’ll bake a cake in the shape of a hat and eat it.
It looks like he has a loopy swing, good for line drives and opposite field gappers but probably no power.
cuppingmaster - December 15, 2009
weak ante
baking an edible cake?? That’s your bet??!
Jason Werth is a good example of a late no-HR guy starting to hit for power.
One won lost won - December 16, 2009
As in, "I'll eat my hat if..."
But I don’t have any edible hats, so a hat-shaped cake is better.
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
Agree on the ante, but...
Jayson Werth showed flashes of power at the big league level. In 2004 he hit 16 HR’s in 396 PA’s for instance. Sweeney hitting 16 in 500 PA’s seems a stretch.
jeffro - December 16, 2009
CarGo vs Taylor
6’6" 250lb baseball players just dont magically show up on every roster. Think Frank Thomas in his early yrs. CarGo has that surly, know it all attitude that didnt endear himself to the coaches or front office. I’d say playing in the weaker league has been a huge help.
MagicMike23 - December 15, 2009
Doolittle is the wildcard in this situation
The A’s have been hyping this guys rapid development prior to injury. I wouldnt be suprised if his power potential ends up being more than wallace eventually. Factor in the athletic ability to play multiple positions, plus defensive value, and healthy doolittle is likely their 1b option for the future.
MagicMike23 - December 15, 2009
I think there's a chance he'll do little in the majors.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
Any evidence?
His progression path wouldve surpassed barton for a chance last yr if not for the injury. It also helps that he still continues to be in their long term plans despite the injury and playing at a 1b/OFcrowded position.
MagicMike23 - December 15, 2009
I think he was mostly making a name based funny
bobnothing - December 15, 2009
uh yeah I think bob might be on to something there
sirbed - December 15, 2009
Bob is on to nothing
travdog6 - December 15, 2009
Need evidence that he'll do little in the majors?
Ummmmmmmm… most prospects do very little in the majors. How’s that?
brenarlo - December 15, 2009
You don't need to be a Dr. to be able to figure that out.
DDroney - December 15, 2009
You tell him, Doney!
JediLeroy - December 16, 2009
knee may be a problem
The A’s are not looking at him being 100% ready for spring. He will be in the minor league camp. Sounds more like a wait and see if he is healthy.
Arcman - December 15, 2009
Why did Taylor last until the 5th Round
of the 2007 draft? He was in Oakland’s backyard.
alpine26 - December 15, 2009
I read somewhere that some scouts thought he
wouldn’t be able to make the adjustment to pro ball and wooden bats. There was some negativity about his Stanford credentials. (I dont’ know Stanford baseball so i’m not sure what that meant.)
But Taylor’s good adjustments and production at every level of minor league ball turned those criticisms to raves.
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
Typical
those poor Stanford grads never get any breaks.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
Some scouts don't like the swing that Stanford players are (apparently) taught
Posting an .898 minor league OPS will tend to quiet that kind of criticism, though.
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
yeah, they mentioned the "Stanford swing"
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
Is that like the Bristol Bop?
bobnothing - December 15, 2009
I went to Stanford camp as a player...
And coached Stanford camp, too. They definitely taught players to swing level, and wanted the ball to leave the bat with backspin. I didn’t really learn good habits at that camp.
Colorado Fan - December 15, 2009
ummm
backspin gets the ball out of the park…
(waits for someone who knows physics better than me to refute what i’ve been taught on the baseball field)
flipgatey3 - December 16, 2009
yeah backspin would encourage lift
tho I don’t know if it would have enough effect to be worth thinking about.
ohmangoAs - December 16, 2009
Considering that backspin (and topspin and everyotherdirectionspin) is what makes a fastball a fastball...
I’d say it’s pretty important. A quickly spun fastball (say, AJ Burnett’s) can be commanded to rise 10-ish inches from the normal spinless flight path, after only traveling 60 ft. A 300 ft batted ball could definitely have a variance of 4-5 ft depending on the spin, if not more.
danmerqury - December 16, 2009
Much stronger spin off the fingertips
with a bat, I bet it’s a lot less significant. But yeah, I think we’re on the same page here. I’d say it’s not wrong to think it might make a difference.
ohmangoAs - December 17, 2009
Minor detail
but a “rising” fastball doesn’t actually rise, it just drops less than a normal one.
mikev - December 17, 2009
Yeah.
Ten inches above the normal spinless flight path is still some 15-20-ish inches below a gravity-less flight path.
danmerqury - December 17, 2009
Yeah...
probably. But Stanford was/is teaching to kinda tomahawk the ball.
Colorado Fan - December 16, 2009
Tiger Woods -- Stanford Swinger
Ray of Lite - December 16, 2009
Stanford swing
I heard Goldstein on XM radio say Taylor was a top HS prospect who had three mediocre years at Stanford when they flattened out his swing, only to have it changed again in the minors. I told my 11 year old (who goes to Stanford summer baseball camp) about it and he said yeah, they have this machine that teaches you to swing level.
vk - December 15, 2009
Ah, the McGwire-3000?
Nico - December 15, 2009
IT HELPS YOU HIT DINGERS
mikev - December 15, 2009
Oh noes!
Flashfire - December 15, 2009
My cousin played at Stanford
It isn’t just the machine but the coaches. They want guys to hit the ball on the ground 1982 St. Louis Cardinals style. He never complained about it, but in his senior year of HIgh School my cousin hit 15 home runs in 20 something games. At Stanford he didn’t hit more than 2 until his senior season even though he he had something like 200 hits over his career there.
It isn’t a myth that Stanford stresses “line drive” swings.
jeffro - December 16, 2009
The 2008 team had plenty of slugger types
Just an aberration? It seemed like most of their runs came from swinging for the fences.
PaulThomas - December 16, 2009
My cousin was on that team :)
Joey August.
Clearly, that team was very special with Ratliff, Castro, Phelps and Millville all hitting double digits in home runs. I think those guys were just very naturally powerful.
I think that team is an anomaly.
On a partially unrelated note, I have mixed feelings about that year. Joey had microdiscectomy after the Texas series and still played in 52 games. I imagine he would have had better power numbers had that not happened.
I am looking forward to this season, it will be the second year after the surgery and he finally feels normal again. So, it could also not entirely be coaching, though I know he was coached to flatten his swing from the day he got to the Farm.
jeffro - December 17, 2009
It's hard to believe that in the 2007 Draft,
that Matt Spencer, was the 113th pick, & Taylor was the 173rd pick. Our closest pick was Pitcher Travis Banwert @ 150. There are some truly diamonds in the rough in the MLB Draft. We did have an excellent 2007 Draft with Simmons, Doolittle, Demel, etc.
alpine26 - December 15, 2009
Actually, Spencer and Taylor were considered very similar prospects at draft time
viz. toolsy corner OF who had for one reason or another not really done a whole lot in college.
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
What Beane is doing
With the M’s getting Lee for 1 year and king Felix it will be a tough year for the A’s to win the division. So beane is essentialy giving up on 2010 which you can’t blame him and looking at 2011 when the young A’s should be ready to contend. Lee will be gone in Seattle and the Angels and rangers will be getting old so the division should be up for grabs to the A’s.
Arcman - December 15, 2009
how does this trade
really change any of that? couldn’t they have decided to give up on 2010 with Wallace still in their system? I think this clearly a case of we HAVE: a glut of 1B/DH types in the orginization we DON’t HAVE: any legitimate upper level power hitting corner OFers. Why not trade one of our best 1B/DH guys for one of the best power hitting corner OF guys?
oakballnack - December 15, 2009
I think the A's have been eyeing 2011 for years
It’s we who keep trying to speed up the timeline in our hopeful minds.
Nico - December 15, 2009
But I'm still waiting for Jeremy to touch home...
DyeLongJustice - December 15, 2009
...and Tejada....and Byrnes....
kitoko - December 15, 2009
He DID touch it!
Come on, man…
CaliforniaJag - December 15, 2009
what does 'giving up on a season" mean?
I have a hard time accepting that A’s wouldn’t intend to put the best team they can on the field – and if the opportunity presents itself to get into the postseason, go for it. (They make alot more money when they get into the postseason. Beane has talked at great length about that in the past.)
This does not mean that you empty out the farm. It doesn’t mean that you don’t continue to build your club and position it to contend for years.
OaklandSi - December 15, 2009
You certainly try to be good enough to "hang around"
in case Torii Hunter collides with Bobby Abreu, or Lee’s elbow goes “crack” or Rich Harden reaches for his alarm clock and knocks it onto Josh Hamilton. You just don’t know, and if the division is weaker than you thought and you’re at .500 it’s a lot different from if the division is weaker than you thought but sadly you’re 23-43.
Nico - December 15, 2009
Or Chavvy dives into a pool because D-Ba told him to.
DyeLongJustice - December 15, 2009
you mean staple-head?
supermarc589 - December 15, 2009
23-43 huh?
Hmm if that happens I might be trying to see if you can play golf at night.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
No.
But I can’t really play during the day either.
Nico - December 15, 2009
I find the vague homoeroticism of that Harden-Hamilton image rather amusing
Particularly in light of Hamilton’s Bible-thumping image and Harden’s querulous insistence that his mile-long injury history isn’t a reflection on his masculinity…
PaulThomas - December 15, 2009
Double awesome
This would be awesome even without “querulous”.
iglew - December 16, 2009
honestly
i will applaud Beane if Taylor is better than Wallace. I will curse his name if Wallace turns out better than Taylor.
-Rage
9Custs - December 15, 2009
Is this official?
I dont see it on ESPN, CNNSI, Yahoo…
9Custs - December 15, 2009
I think it's on all of those sites, actually
oakballnack - December 15, 2009
It's on the A's site.
http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091215&content_id=7814772&vkey=news_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak
VV A's fan - December 15, 2009
I'd rather trade for Michael Scott than Michael Taylor
Or Lawrence Taylor.
In all seriousness, I do like this trade. After the initial “WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF”, I get it. We have a better hitter and better fielder in our hands, but just not at a position that may or may not be of need.
DyeLongJustice - December 15, 2009
Lawrence Taylor would be awesome
he’d kill the catcher coming into home plate. Of course we’d have to find a way around the drug tests but hell the A’s have done that before.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
Plus
“If ya wanna get down, down on the ground, cocaine” hahahaha
DyeLongJustice - December 15, 2009
cocaine is a hell of a drug
guy incognito - December 15, 2009
and we'd have a helluva theme song to play when he's up at bat
DyeLongJustice - December 15, 2009
Keith Law's take
Link
ohmangoAs - December 15, 2009
Interesting.
I wonder who will be the better player going forward: Barton or Wallace. If it’s Barton, then the A’s really win with the trade. If it’s Wallace, then maybe he would have been the 1Bman the A’s want.
Nico - December 15, 2009
i like this taylor description:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/48589117.html
oaklidiot - December 15, 2009
woops here's the full link:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20090619_Bill_Conlin__Phillies_prospect_Michael_Taylor_a_heavyweight_five-tooler.html
oaklidiot - December 15, 2009
collection of Taylor articles and notes
http://phuturephillies.com/category/5-prospect-features/taylor-michael/
Athletix Man - December 15, 2009
So did I miss anything today?
I mean, besides lunch.
67MARQUEZ - December 15, 2009
Go Raiders!!!!
DyeLongJustice - December 15, 2009
{cries}
67MARQUEZ - December 15, 2009
on the bright side,
I think we almost certainly saw Jamarcus in the game for the very last time.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Hey they signed J.P. Losman
we’re going all the way baby!
sirbed - December 15, 2009
if we signed an 'e'
he’d be off the team in an instant…
DyeLongJustice - December 15, 2009
I would have thought that dropping e's would make watching the Raiders a more palatable affair
bobnothing - December 15, 2009
Wait so if I take drugs the Raiders will be fun to watch?
anybody know anybody who knows anybody who knows somebody who has something to sell?
sirbed - December 15, 2009
no no you got it wrong
when you take drugs, late-period Genesis actually doesn’t sound like fingernails on chalkboard!
Gaijin_Suketto - December 16, 2009
don't you know this is the land of confusion...?
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Hey, they have a championship quarterback!
LoneStranger - December 16, 2009
Take notes. You can write about it in 20 years. ;-)
UncleLeo - December 16, 2009
Not that this is a likely option...
but Carter does have some time at third. Maybe the A’s believe that Carter’s athleticism will manifest at third, I guess. I like Taylor, but I’m not sure I like him for Wallace. I was really hoping that Wallace would make it at third. I guess Billy determined that Wallace can’t cut it at third.
JamesCaprio - December 15, 2009
Carter at third would be a disaster of epic proportions
Flashfire - December 15, 2009
I only want Carter at third
if we bring Cust back and put him at short. It would be a thing of beauty.
sirbed - December 15, 2009
i just threw up in my mouth
guy incognito - December 15, 2009
Haha valid points all...
but either way, we are now in the market for a future 3B. Does Cardenas have experience at 3rd?
JamesCaprio - December 16, 2009
It has been an interesting last 48 hours in the bay area
Niners play an inspiring game last night to keep their playoffs hopes alive. Beane and the A’s are included in one of the biggest trades in baseball history. Lady Gaga sells out bill graham civic center 2 nights in a row for the concert and entertainer of 2009. That woman (or man) is weird, but it was an amazing concert. With fun and energetic songs and she swears like a truck driver . Cant deny the success of 5 #1 singles in 1 yrs by a new artist. Unlike other blonde manufactured pop singers she actually sings live. Now its time for Beane to put on his “Poker Face” and play that “LoveGame” with other GMs which hopefully doesnt leak anymore trade rumors to the “Papparazzi” and media. Hopefully we get a legit 3b and it does no end in a"Bad Romance" with Brett Wallace. Time for A’s fan to be happy about today’s trade and “Just Dance”!! Paws up!!
MagicMike23 - December 15, 2009
Since when did this become "Lady Gaga Nation"?
StewCrew - December 15, 2009
Poker Face?
CaliforniaJag - December 15, 2009
Taylor's nickname
Apparently Michael Taylor has been known as “The Renaissance Man” in A’s front office for quite some time. I guess Wallace was “The Baroque Man” because of his unusual body-type.
Manstein - December 16, 2009
lol shows how much they love
those balanced 7 skills
ohmangoAs - December 16, 2009
So with respect to Wallace
If it wasn’t Baroque then why did they fix it?
kaweahkaweah - December 16, 2009
I do like a mean harpsichord.
LoneStranger - December 16, 2009
Is that what a piano regresses to?
iglew - December 16, 2009
Heh.
danmerqury - December 16, 2009
SIGN ZOMBIE NICKY HOPKINS NOW!!!
Nick - December 16, 2009
here's that Holliday trade thread from late july
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2009/7/24/961435/matt-holliday-traded-to-cardinals
MagicMike23 - December 16, 2009
I'm late for the party as usual..........
But I love this trade.
As much as I loved Wallace I only had my fingers crossed that he could play 3B, I didn’t completely believe he would stay there.
Taylor belongs in the OF (as far as I know).
We are going to look a lot more intimidating in June when Taylor and Carter come up.
Behemoth slugging OFs FTW!
Daniel777 - December 16, 2009
just came in from mlbTR twitter
Coco Crisp has said he wants to play in OAK or SD on a 1 year deal.
This is big news because you rarely ever even HEAR of a player “wanting” to come here.
PL78 - December 16, 2009
also
Jamey Carroll is deciding between his 2 year deal offers from us and LAD today.
PL78 - December 16, 2009
Jamey Carroll AND Aaron Miles
we’re cornering the market on..
uh.
mikev - December 16, 2009
ugh
we are cornering the market on ugh.
jeffro - December 16, 2009
hahaha
Do we REALLY have to keep Miles? Cant we just release him and eat the cost?
PL78 - December 16, 2009
I think thats the plan.
so it will end up being $1.3M for Fox
Future Ed - December 16, 2009
Carroll, Miles, and Crisp:
Combining for what, 1 HR? Inside the park, obviously.
Nico - December 16, 2009
Going for the all-food game
Cassevah, Meloan, and Crisp all get in the same game
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
Why did we offer him a deal again?
I’d rather take my chances with Petit as 2B/SS backup and McPhoxez.
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
i hope that the interest isn't mutual...
eastbayexpat - December 16, 2009
What is he, a glutton for punishment?
He’s not going to rebuild his value very effectively hitting in an offensive graveyard…
I’d pass on Coco, meself. No need for him unless Davis is getting moved. They’re to all practical purposes the same player.
PaulThomas - December 16, 2009
CF Defense
The consensus seems to be the the best defensive CF the A’s have is Davis. Although Davis is certainly the fastest, I just don’t think that means he’s the best. Sometimes his routes to the ball seem off, the way he holds his glove makes me nervous…
I like Davis, don’t get me wrong, he’s an exciting player and he plays hard. I just don’t think overall, he’s really a better defensive CF than Sweeney. Am I crazy? Does anyone else see what I see? I’m curious as to other people’s thoughts on this…
ilovethea's - December 16, 2009
Rajai is also the best defensive CFer on the A's.
Partly because his competition isn’t stiff and partly because he is good.
Nico - December 16, 2009
sabr question...
how important is arm to quality of CF defense? sweeney has a better arm than davis, but davis might cover more ground. so when total defense is considered, how do the two balance out?
stm72 - December 16, 2009
Arm strength is given a score in UZR
Dewan’s Plus/Minus does as well… I think.
grover - December 16, 2009
thanks
stm72 - December 16, 2009
If Carroll is coming
Then Miles is probably either released or traded (with us eating at least half of remaining salary). It wouldn’t be a bad thing since Carroll is at least a solid OBP guy. However neither of them qualifies as utility infielder since they are both unlikely to handle shortstop in a tolerable fashion.
Manstein - December 16, 2009
Uh oh, I wonder who...
Flunked their physical?
cuppingmaster - December 16, 2009
...
did they fail to study?
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Michael Taylor? LOL
PL78 - December 16, 2009
The scale wasn't big enough.
mikev - December 16, 2009
Well, he did end his Mexican League (IIRC) season early because of elbow problems...
Nick - December 16, 2009
It'd be pretty amazing if this thing fell apart.
vegAN ryAN - December 16, 2009
the centre cannot hold.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
There is no spoon
mikev - December 16, 2009
Yeats probably would've sprinkled The Matrix right over the top of his weird-ass beliefs.
He would’ve approved.
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Yeah, that's a 10-yard penalty right there
Nick - December 16, 2009
I hate Yeats, too.
My hatred stems from a grad class. Yours?
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Dude, I LOVE Yeats!
Unless you hate him because he reminds you too much of your life, how can you not love Yeats?
No second Troy, bro. Are you not feeling it?
iglew - December 16, 2009
if it does
I just wasted HOURS of comment reading.
micdog2001 - December 16, 2009
Taylor did have to leave winter ball because of a sore elbow...
grover - December 16, 2009
It's Aumont apparently who flunked
Manstein - December 16, 2009
Ya I just heard this as well
How likely is it that this blows the trade up completely? Aumont wasn’t a huge piece, but Seattle isn’t exactly stacked with top tier minor league talent to offer either.
JPShark - December 16, 2009
Now its being said by Shi Davidi
of the Canadian press that Aumont passed. Who knows, I hear Drabek’s name flying around now on other sites. Sounds like Wallace might acutally end up being a solid 3B afterall ;-)
JPShark - December 16, 2009
Its Drabek not Aumont
PL78 - December 16, 2009
Well if its Drabek
I don’t see this deal going through. Maybe Phil’s put Happ into the deal instead?
JPShark - December 16, 2009
I dont see the Jays
having near the interest in Happ as they did Drabek but I know his name was being discussed.
JPShark - December 16, 2009
I'm guessing that if it's not Lee or Halladay, a way will be found to get the deal done
though, I’ll admit, Drabek could be a spanner in the works
bobnothing - December 16, 2009
speaking of spanner
about 20 years ago my sister got me an “everton” scarf when she was in england. its blue. I have no idea what it is.
Future Ed - December 16, 2009
I like the segue
Everton are a soccer team based in the city of Liverpool. If she bought the scarf around twenty years ago, would that have made it 1987ish? They won the League that year, in part thanks to a far Welshman who played in goal, and a midfielder with a magic left foot.
Them’s really were the days.
bobnothing - December 16, 2009
(far = fat)
bobnothing - December 16, 2009
Fat Welshies not your thing?
I think it was around the. Livrpool makes sese, she is a dork for that kind of thing. I think that was the trip where a cabbie told her to be careful in liverpool because of hoodlums. She told him shelived in LA and a bunch of kids on the dole without guns would not scare her.
Future Ed - December 16, 2009
No, no, I love Neville Southall. He is a hero of mine
bobnothing - December 16, 2009
Everton's one of the American-friendly Premier League teams
so I sort of root for them for that reason. Along with Fulham.
PaulThomas - December 16, 2009
If the Halladay-Lee component falls apart
Would Phils still do Wallace/Taylor swap with Beane? Yeah, Wallace has nowhere to play on that team, but neither does Taylor really.
Manstein - December 16, 2009
Don't think they'd do it
Beane had inquired about Taylor prior to the Toronto-Philly deal, and had been unable to pry him out of their hands. So I don’t know if Oakland has anything that Phil. wants in exchange.
Ugh….sinking feeling…
Spass30 - December 16, 2009
NEW THREAD OPEN!
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2009/12/16/1203431/wallace-taylor-cont
baseballgirl - December 16, 2009
(gasp!)
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
I really misread the word 'cont' there
for something much worse
bobnothing - December 16, 2009
I did too and am laughing my head off right now
which is odd in a cubicle surrounded by quiet people. They think I am Dexter Morgan for sure.
jeffro - December 16, 2009
{blinks}
…
you’re not, are you?
Leopold Bloom - December 16, 2009
Nope, I am Arthur Mitchell
jeffro - December 18, 2009
Stan says you are cont... cont... cont...
cont…inuing source of inspiration to him.
iglew - December 16, 2009
While you're at it
can you work out a scenario in which Daric Barton is also relocated, I keep getting him mixed up with Dan Johnson and it’s getting me confused. Anyways none of this stuff means anything to me until I see some talent on the field remove your lops from Billy’s behind and expect results.
Boss Playa - December 16, 2009
Thank you for this comment
Prior to tonight, I really felt like my clandestine homoerotic romance with Billy Beane was getting somewhere— that maybe one day, through a combination of blandishments about Aaron Cunningham and savage, agonized gay lovemaking, I too would be able to experience the joy of being able to focus 100% of both my mind and my prostate gland on the game of baseball.
Your comment really turned the tide for me, though. Thanks to you, I have found the courage to abandon baseball, enter a Focus on the Family “retraining” session, and in fact reboot my life entirely from scratch.
I tip my cap to you, sir.
PaulThomas - December 16, 2009
Please don't abandon your homoerotic romance with Beane
Your prostate will thank you someday.
Ask your doctor if agonized gay lovemaking is right for you.
Nico - December 17, 2009
If you have an Everidge that lasts for more than four hours, please call David Forst.
danmerqury - December 17, 2009
Actually I believe that's a Langerhans.
mikev - December 17, 2009
All that
And it took you that long to convince him to get rid of Crosby? Geez…
cuppingmaster - December 17, 2009
What are lops?
grover - December 17, 2009
NRC - December 17, 2009
If Sweeny is hitting 3rd come June
It’s going to be a long year
sactownbull - December 18, 2009
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