Athletics Nation

You must do the dishes and report back when you're done.

i did the first round of dishes before voting

does that count?

I already did the dishes...

…am I out of the club now?

quick, use some kitchen utensil and leave it in the sink...

Bob Geren!!

I like it

hey why not he’s consistent as his A’s either win 75 or 76 games every year.

i told myself, i bet Bob's name comes in on the first screen view.

ak_A - November 14, 2009 reply

didn't wanna dissapoint anyone!

Rated-R Superstar - November 14, 2009 reply

Manager of the Year

I’d give the award to Jim Tracy in the National League and Mike Scioscia in the American League.

Please go do the dishes and report back when you're done.

I wonder if Derek Jeter ever has to do the dishes at his house?

mrod - November 14, 2009 reply

not tonight

he’s ringside at the Cotto-Pacquaio fight in Vegas

[Insert name of manager who plays small ball or managed a surprisingly successful team here]

hero66 - November 14, 2009 reply

Manager of the Year

I’d give the award to Jim Tracy in the National League and Mike Scioscia in the American League.

(RRS was right so I just thought I’d copy him)

Scioscia's a douche.

We can’t give him anything.

Please go do the dishes and report back when you're done.

Tony La Russa

just because I like the Cardinals.

I think La Russa is great

but with the way the Rockies turned around under Tracy I just have to give him my vote.

Please go do the dishes and report back when you're done.

DONE.

Bah!

What is a manager good for? Haughtily swinging his codpiece to-and-fro, pacing the dugout like a caged tiger, all the while merrily chanting, “Plip-plop! Plip-plop…”

Aufheben - November 14, 2009 reply

I don't know you, but I like you.

I don't like you, but I know you.

You can pick your friends, you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's noses.

you can pick your pick, but you can't ax your ax

I vote for "conundrum".

It’s not a dilemma unless there are two plausible propositions or courses of action that you must choose between.

I do appreciate the pedantic fussiness of “for whom to vote”, though.

iglew - November 14, 2009 reply

I think this might be a classic iglew post

My Devil's advocate case for Bob Geren

If you take, for a second, that a manager doesn’t add a lot in the way of value to a team actually on the field, allow me to posit the following: the MOTY (as all the kids are calling it) should go to the manager that best fulfills the role that he was hired to do. At the Yankees, for example, this involves sitting on the bench looking vaguely miffed, making sure everyone has shaved and then bringing in Mariano Rivera in the 9th. Genius.

Anyway. Our own beloved Bob Geren, then.

What is the A’s priority at the moment? To bring through some promising young players before they with the World Series in 2012 against the Giants (this will happen, by the by).

So, the A’s needed a manager who wouldn’t moan and mither in the press about his GM taking away his established players, who is willing to play erratic, but talented youngsters over more consistent veterans, and who, above all, is going to act as a shield for these rising superstars, protecting them from the slings and arrows of outrageous Ratto.

In this sense, (and I daresay that his time in AAA has been a help), he’s been great. Aside from some occasional murmurs of discontent coming from veterans not getting what they consider to be their due (Giambi, J, Brown, E, I’m looking at you), he’s held the dressing room together; this is something I don’t consider to be an easy task, given three consecutive seasons of dissapointment.

Secondly, he’s always shown outward support to his young pitching staff, even through their many, many struggles. This might seem a fairly worthless excercise, but thoughout all the games I went to during the season, not once did I hear the crowd booing a starter. Now, you might put this down to other factors – faith in Beane, the seductive nature of hope in the future over the reality of the present, or just no-one turning up – but I don’t think Geren’s role, acting almost as a lighteng rod for fans’ frustrations, should be underestimated.

Also, his post game press conferences are so crushingly dull, win or lose, that reporters seemingly lose the will to live before they’re able to ask pertinent questions about, say, why ~~Tim~~ Trevor Cahill can’t throw strikes.

It could be argued, too, that he’s not had such success with position players, and I guess we’ll see this coming year what happens.

And here we go – I think I’ve happened on a conclusion – the best thing about Geren is that Beane has the confidence in him to be able to bring up a large number of untested players, all around the same time, with the wheels entirely falling off.

Hm, I’m not sure I’ve entirely convinced myself, but still.

Giambi complained about being played too much, actually

otherwise, a fun read

He did? I guess I missed that

Still, all the griping has come from the elder statesmen, as far as I remember

that's not surprising

it’s less risky for them to complain publicly than for the rookies

Yeah, that's also true

MY EYES! MY EYES!

IT BURNS US!

that's what I'll be saying during tomorrow's epic clash

between the Raiders and the Chiefs. It might be the greatest game in the histrory of mankind.

I’m having seven friends over and 3 of them are Chiefs fans and I’m expecting to the only one sober after this stinker is done.

you missed the 49ers - Bears game on thursday, then...

it was like two drunks flailing at each other in a back alley

alas

at least that wouid’ve been more entertaining to watch.

that was quite poor football.

so was the mls playoff game last night

David Beckham’s signing seems to be embarrassing since this was a playoff game, with big market teams, and yet they still couldn’t fill the stadium.

they couldn't even keep the lights on!

i didn't notice

but if it was in Cali…that’s hardly surprising.

Yeah - this is second hand knowledge, from a friend who was there

but apparently the lights went out twice?

It’s possible he just fell asleep twice, but still

oh, the other point I wanted to add to this

Geren has kept his teams playing all season long, even after playoff hopes were long since extinguished. Now, you would think, with the players’ professional pride and all, that this would be a given, but that’s clearly not the case.

Again, something to his credit.

Though the "not make them play hard" the entire first half

is a big strike against him. He let guys dog it with no consequence for 3 months.

I guess I don't buy into the 'not trying in the first half' bit as much as you do

Like I say, though, it’s not a watertight case. There are certainly reasons to criticize him

Well, we saw multiple incidences where a player clearly didn't run out a ball

and nothing happened. The shift was when R. Sweeney was benched and from then on there was appropriate follow-through on lack of hustle (Hairston being another example).

yeah, I dunno. I mean, I can recall two or three? Is that more than usual teams?

And isn’t ‘the ability to alter a team and make them play harder by your actions’ a positive thing?

another point in his favor

he’s very tall and imposing when you meet him in person.

I didn’t dare say anything snarky when shaking his hand at the season ticket holders’ event. he looks you straight in the eye. His mouth smiles while his eyes dare you to say something snarky.

(not that anyone here would do anything like that, of course…)

I'm referring to Geren, in case the threading wasn't clear

You met homeless John C. Reilly?

Future Ed - November 14, 2009 reply

Was that after he and Dirk recorded

“You Got the Touch”?

I like it, though it is deeply suppositional...

… and I doubt we could be sure it was true for another year or two, after which we’ll all forget you said it and argue with a whole different set of suppositions. Such is the anaysis of the managerial. I am now off, having completed the dishes early this afternoon, to take a deep suppository to root out all the suppositions.

paris7 - November 14, 2009 reply

Oakland A's fan moment during the football season

I have channel 2’s program on one of the Raiders’ championship years…I just heard Bill King calling a great play with his patented “holy Toledo”…just thought I’d share…

Billy Martin...

…seemed to make a difference. More than once… Rangers & A’s… he took horrible losing teams and turned them around into winning teams his first full year with the team. Drastic and remarkable improvement, even. All with essentially the same rosters. (He also burned them out pretty quickly, too, but that’s a different subject)

Yes, he had some good talent in both situations, yet it’s not likely that everybody magically matured at exactly the same time.

So… regarding the argument that managers don’t matter… Billy Martin… exception to the rule, or evidence to the contrary?

UncleLeo - November 14, 2009 reply

Exception to the rule

Like Youkilis and other outliers. Billy Martin is certainly evidence that a manager can make a difference (positive, negative, or both) but he’s not evidence that a manager will make a difference 99% of the time.

In a general sense...

…and not including exceptions to the rule like Billy Martin… I view “good managers” as those who simply don’t hinder their team, while “bad managers” tend to make themselves quite evident early and often. There are three aspects to managing that I believe are important…

1) On-field on-game strategic decisions and management.

2) Pre-game preparation, i.e. practice, etc.

3) Clubhouse Nanny, i.e. manage and soothe all the huge player egos.

Only 2 out of 3 is necessary for a guy to be a “good manager”*. Pick two, because you’ll probably never get all three. Mike Scoscia excels at #2, I think. You wouldn’t know by watching this year’s ALCS, but his team is normally very fundamentally sound and prepared. They know their jobs and they execute what they’re supposed to. Joe Torre excels at #3, IMHO, and why he was able to succeed in New York for so long

So, when you’re talking about good managers, and those who might deserve an award, you’re not really talking about “good managers”, but rather “managers who don’t suck”.

Good players, too, but this is about what the manager himself can control.

UncleLeo - November 14, 2009 reply

Scoscia is an in-game micro-manager as well

he is the one who calls all of the pitchouts, throws to first, etc.