I don't know what I like better - seeing the A's win four straight, or making the Angels look like complete idiots in the process, but tonight, I'm glad I don't have to make that choice, because we got both. K-Rod, the new all-time single season saves leader, again left us with a memorable sulk-off, aiding the process with his inability to throw anywhere that wasn't named home plate.
After a scary top of the ninth inning, which saw the A's precarious 1-0 lead dashed when Brad Ziegler served up a two-run shot to Mark Texiera, I was not looking forward to another one of K-Rod's anger-inducing goggle-eyed celebrations on our home field. But that never was a risk, as Barton's lead-off single in the bottom of the frame was extended to a double when Gary Matthews tossed the throw in the infield, back to nobody. With Barton on second, K-Rod walked Hannahan, putting the tying and leading runs on base for Cliff Pennington.
Pennington's would-be bunt was awesome as he smacked the ball off the plate, sending it sky-high. K-Rod sent his throw to first well past the base, into the Angels bullpen while the A's came racing around to score and win the game. It was ugly, but as mentioned in the thread, many things about the Angels are ugly, and we'll take wins however we can get them.
The issue of pitchers being unable to field and throw to first or second continues to boggle my mind. They should be among the best, most accurate throwers in the world, but by and large, they make the most bone-headed throws to the bases of any position players. If it were the A's making this mistake, I'd be begging for more defensive practice, but if this is the Angels' style, more power to 'em. Tonight, I am a K-Rod fan. We love you, K-Rod. Thank you.
0 recs | 317 comments
Woo-hoo!
67MARQUEZ - September 17, 2008
Bobby Crosby was robbed...
I say ROBBED!!! on the BBTN web gems. Wasn’t even close.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Prob did not have time to get it up
GREAT play
baseballgirl - September 17, 2008
yeah, that's probably true...
after all, what other reason would BBTN have to ignore the A’s?
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Probably had their list done by the time he made that play
Flashfire - September 17, 2008
Prob did not have time to get it up
GREAT play
baseballgirl - September 17, 2008
That's usually my excuse
Nico - September 17, 2008
Right move by ESPN
That play was a graphic demonstration of just how badly Crosby’s range has decayed this season. 90% of MLB shortstops field that ball standing up.
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
you're kidding...
or didn’t see it.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Paul will never say anything "nice" about Crosby.
mikev - September 17, 2008
It was a graphic demonstration?
The ladies must have been pleased.
Nico - September 17, 2008
LOL
Flashfire - September 17, 2008
that's utter nonsense
monkeyball - September 17, 2008
Yeah, Crosby's range is WAAAY down this year
to the point where I’m not sure he’s a plus defensive shortstop. But that was one heck of a play.
salb918 - September 18, 2008
on what basis do you say his range is down?
Is there a moving average of multiple-year data, or is it just this year’s range numbers that are down? I was under the impression that it took multiple years of defensive data to draw a reasonable conclusion about a player’s overall D — wouldn’t that obtain for the various D components as well?
I’m not disputing that his range may be down, just that I’m agnostic on whether D stats can provide that degree of precision.
But, if you and PT et al. agree otherwise, I’ll take y’all’s collective word on it.
And, yeah, that was a heck of a play. Off the bat (from the vantage point of The Dogfather’s excellent seats in 119) it sure looked like it was going through.
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
I think PT's excuse is going to be something along the lines of...
…“They were in double play position so any good shortstop gets to that standing up.”
At which point I’d just agree to disagree, but whatever. It was right up the middle and no play is that routine there.
Flashfire - September 18, 2008
Here's ZR and RZR
ZR:
2005: .867
2006: .855
2007: .870
2008: .831
RZR:
2005: .875; .035 (OOZ per inning, higher number good)
2006: .808; .029
2007: .834; .05
2008: .822; .033
Some of the better metrics released in June or so hated him to the tune of being one of the few worst SSs in the league, but his ZR and RZR have improved since then. I would say it is likely that his range has diminished to some extent, but I think it is overblown. I would guess that his D is a tic below average.
mikeA - September 18, 2008
A general note about judging D by eye:
My observation has been that it’s extremely difficult to judge a player’s range watching on tv, whereas one can get a very good sense watching at the park, whereas the opposite is true with hitting and pitching.
mikeA - September 18, 2008
I would conditionally agree with all of that
There are certain elements of pitching and hitting that are better observed in person (from good seats), but, yeah, tv gives a much more complete and precise view.
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
Question for people who know about this stuff
Is it methodologically “bad” to add OOZ to BIZ to create a “total plays made/balls in zone” ratio? It seems like it makes more sense on its face than splitting the two and then leaving it to the reader to somehow mentally combine them.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
I think the reason they separate is that
ooz plays are thought to me more along the lines of “taking charge on a popup” than “great range” for the most part.
mikeA - September 18, 2008
Can't speak to salb
It’s purely observational for me. Balls that are taking multiple seconds to get through the infield are going by him not that far from his starting point.
It’s not that his range is horrible by shortstop standards— it’s probably about average— but in prior years it was good enough to mask (to some extent) his abysmal throwing mechanics and inaccuracy, and now it isn’t. He’s still screwing up just as many marginal plays on bad throws, but he’s making fewer easy plays.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
you'll get no argument from me that his fundamentals and mechanics are poor
He’s really a waste of an excellent pedigree and physiognomy. He’s like what would happen if the hypothetical five-year-old learned baseball by watching Vlad.
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
maybe the loss of Wash stunted his development defensively...
Though no hitting coach in the world will help develop him to his full (probably over-hyped) potential, I do feel that losing Wash has probably hurt not only Crosby’s development as a defender, but the entire infield.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
that sounds plausible to me
monkeyball - September 19, 2008
I actually don't think his range has decayed that much
I never thought he was a great, or even very good defensive player. I think in the past he’s been decent, and now he’s probably somewhere a bit below average.
I agree that the play probably shouldn’t have looked quite so difficult, but I don’t think it was an easy play either.
thejd44 - September 18, 2008
Beating Lackey and K-Rod on back to back games?
Yum.
Nico - September 17, 2008
I hope this is just a preview of the ass-kickin'...
the A’s are gonna hand these ass-hats in "09.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
New name for the Angels in '09
The Los Angeles Asshats of Anaheim
thesteve9x - September 17, 2008
it certainly has a ring to it...
in an alliterations sort of way.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Is there a ringtone to go with that?
mrod - September 18, 2008
"Many things about the Angels are ugly"
should be QOTM if it were in a comment.
WaddellCanseco - September 17, 2008
TY. I do what I can.
louismg - September 17, 2008
Party over here
Don’t forget the whipped cream in the other thread.
thesteve9x - September 17, 2008
Bring the whipped cream!
Yay!
lynnzgal - September 17, 2008
I will say it again:
Angels D: WORST. EVAR.
Go A’s!
IowaA'sFan - September 17, 2008
For sure!
lynnzgal - September 17, 2008
If I were Mike Scioscia, I would NOT be pleased
with the level of energy and commitment everyone but Teixeira showed.
Nico - September 17, 2008
Lack of hustle, ala Joe Maddon.
Blicks - September 17, 2008
They laid down tonight big time.
lynnzgal - September 17, 2008
If you were Mike Scioscia
I’d take away your sheep
67MARQUEZ - September 17, 2008
If I were a sheep I'd still say no to Scioscia
Nico - September 17, 2008
that's a baaaaaad maaaaaan
OaklandSi - September 17, 2008
As the bottom of the 9th was unfolding...
…he looked like his head was about to explode.
UncleLeo - September 18, 2008
Dude, did you see how fast Scioscia walked off to the tunnel?
Haha!!!!!!!!!!!! Eat that bitch hole!!!!!!!!
mrod - September 18, 2008
Garret Anderson is a thoroughgoing embarrassment in the field
He makes the phrase “Adam Dunn, defensive replacement” plausible.
monkeyball - September 17, 2008
How about "Jack Cust, Gold Glover"
mikev - September 18, 2008
almost
Jack is faster than Garret, has better instincts, and tries harder. As is/has/does Dunn.
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
Garret Anderson has never been even a very good player
He puts up numbers that are great for a middle infielder, but just sorta ok for a corner OF. And he’s never been anything special defensively. The only thing going for him is he’s always been consistently a hair above average (and he’s been mostly healthy), so he’s got all these pretty counting stats and not-terrible rate stats. The guy is going to get some HOF votes when he was probably never a top 15 corner OF.
thejd44 - September 18, 2008
Listening to Ken's call again
Chills-ville
67MARQUEZ - September 17, 2008
He's just so professional - few broadcasters
can deliver the level of excitement and maintain a professional sound the way he does.
Nico - September 17, 2008
Truly
67MARQUEZ - September 17, 2008
That was an awesome call by Ken, btw.
Kimberly - September 17, 2008
you should have heard my call
I’m surprised the neighbors didn’t call the cops
OaklandSi - September 17, 2008
I was laughing like the Joker...
all manic-like when F-Rod made that throw.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
as were we at the game
monkeyball - September 17, 2008
I did call the cops...
They just laughed and told me K-Rod sucks.
thesteve9x - September 17, 2008
QOTM
OaklandSi - September 17, 2008
lol
The Golden One - September 17, 2008
this was like the sulk off
only it lasted longer, and K-Rod looked stupider
OaklandSi - September 17, 2008
Be-u-ti-ful!
lynnzgal - September 17, 2008
And just as fun
Total schadenfreude
anomaly_kat - September 17, 2008
Oh yes!
lynnzgal - September 17, 2008
stupider is one of the bestest words evah.
whaxed - September 17, 2008
More like that please.
Awesome finish.
louismg - September 17, 2008
I like Cliffy,
it’s a shame he isn’t better…
mikeA - September 17, 2008
From what I've seen, he's sufficiently good at 2B defensively
If he could learn to slap his way to a .260 batting average and take a few walks, I could forgive his Kendallesque power.
Nico - September 17, 2008
I could maybe forgive it at SS
mikeA - September 17, 2008
I just think his D has been a lot better at 2B
Nico - September 17, 2008
he reminds me of Mark Ellis...
at least, in the post-game interview. Maybe he can step up.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
isn't better?
I thought for a second you wrote butter. Better than mayo.
LibrariAN - September 17, 2008
Re: pitchers having trouble with this throw...
…it could be said it’s not the kind of throw they’re used to making. I mean, pitchers are used to specific timing and positioning in their motion to the plate and this kind of throw is rushed and there’s little time to pick out the target first.
Flashfire - September 17, 2008
With that particular play, the only good throw
was not to make one. And for a strikeout pitcher like K-Rod, bases loaded nobody out is still a jam you can escape with 0 or 1 run.
Nico - September 17, 2008
against the August A's, maybe...
against most MLB teams anytime, probably not.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
I don't know why he fielded the play
Pitchers always avoid pop-ups, and that’s pretty much what it was. Let the 1B or 3B get it.
louismg - September 17, 2008
exactly Nico
K-Hole should have never made that throw. He had “0” chance of throwing Penny out at 1st base.
Still, I love watching that piece of shit blow up!
mrod - September 18, 2008
He would have been safe even without the bad throw
thesteve9x - September 17, 2008
that's why they ruled it a hit
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Remember Nathan and the Twins?
A’s down 2-1, no outs, bottom of the ninth, men on first and second, closer tries to make close play, throws ball down the line, two A’s score and win 3-2. Twice… in less than three weeks!
muscatel - September 17, 2008
And Shields on Scutaro's bunt last year
Nico - September 17, 2008
How time flies...
The Scutaro bunt play was in April, 2005
Soaker - September 17, 2008
Oh, was Bill King still alive?
Whaddya know.
Nico - September 17, 2008
Goggles
When did KR quit wearing them? Yup, I know, probably Hudler talked about that too.
LibrariAN - September 17, 2008
When he realized Seth Green
wore goggles in Can’t Hardly Wait and totally looked like a douche.
thesteve9x - September 17, 2008
I'm not sure why "looking like a douche" would suddenly start troubling K-Rod
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
he looks in the mirror everyday, after all...
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Perhaps the last time he pointed up to God
God gave him the cold shoulder?
Nico - September 17, 2008
It's so rude to point
Plus you have three fingers pointing back at yourself
LibrariAN - September 17, 2008
I really hope Outman has another good start tomorrow
Smith may finally have found the outside corner (by moving over on the rubber) and I’m still optimistic about him, Gallagher has #2 potential IMO, and Outman has the “power arm” that could complement Duchscherer, Gallagher, and Smith nicely.
Nico - September 17, 2008
Gallagher is destined for the #1 role on next year's A's...
you’re penciling in Duke?
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Last I checked he's on the roster
Nico - September 17, 2008
I've always been one of the biggest Duke fans here...
just don’t see it next year. Even if he’s on the roster, he’s the #2 behind Gallagher, who has much better stuff.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Gallagher has much better stuff, but Duke is a better pitcher
at this point in their careers. When he has been healthy, Duke has been a top-notch pitcher every season he has pitched for the A’s. He’s very, very good. Gallagher’s best years won’t come for 2-3 more seasons.
Nico - September 17, 2008
I'm just not convinced Duke will be here...
nor that he’ll stay healthy. If he is and he does… he’ll start the year as the #1. He won’t finish it there.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
That would be Cahill
WaddellCanseco - September 17, 2008
Cahill, Anderson or Gallagher...
if their up, that means our pitching will be good (I think). Billy will probably have to trade one of them to get a decent bat, but our pitching will still be the best in the West, so…
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Dunn is a decent bat.
WaddellCanseco - September 17, 2008
Git'er Dunn
I just had to post it
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
Yay Larry!
WaddellCanseco - September 17, 2008
If they're up, it means the pitching is shit
There’s no way the A’s should be turning to them (Cahill and Anderson, I mean) at any point next season. There are 9 pitchers ahead of them on the depth chart right now.
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
+1
September callups at best, but I just don’t see it.
mikev - September 17, 2008
I don't see that, either.
Both need a full season of AAA in Sacramento. I wouldn’t dare rush them, we have no need anyway.
danmerqury - September 17, 2008
no, it would mean Cahill and Anderson...
are really fucking good and ready for the majors. To jump over 9 pitchers slotted ahead of them (can you name the 9?). That’s the only way they’d be up.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Yep
Duke
Gallagher
Smith
Braden
Outman
Eveland
Gio
Mazzaro
Simmons
The A’s aren’t going to pull a guy from the rotation midseason unless he’s injured or sucking. The team just doesn’t operate that way.
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
Okay that was eerie.
mikev - September 17, 2008
it was...
you didn’t quite agree… but, close enough. My bet… Beane trades 2 or 3 of those guys for a bat before next season even starts. The rest just aren’t as good as Cahill or Anderson.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Of those listed, I have no trouble seeing Smith, Braden, Outman,
Simmons and Mazzaro being worse than Cahill and/or Anderson next year. I also have no trouble seeing Duke not finish the year in the rotation due to trade or injury. Eveland could be trade bait as well, which leaves Gio.
You can never have too much pitching!
WaddellCanseco - September 17, 2008
I really have a hard time seeing those guys being worse than Cahill/Anderson next year
Anderson pretty clearly wasn’t ready for AAA; his numbers from the playoffs look superficially good but are very un-Anderson-like. Cahill hasn’t cracked AAA yet; he was having enough challenges in AA.
There’s also the matter of trying to build their arms up. Neither of them is really supposed to pitch more than 150 innings next year.
I’m not saying they are bad pitchers, I’m saying that they are guys who cannot legally drink yet and it would be perniciously stupid to force them to the big leagues early on a hunch. I actually wouldn’t even consider calling them up even if the pitching IS shit.
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
I don't know that I'd put Mazzaro or Simmons ahead of them right now.
Flashfire - September 17, 2008
They're not ahead of any of the guys above them
right now. Foolshgame22’s comment related to the end of 2009.
WaddellCanseco - September 17, 2008
Remember, guys, Billy Beane.
Not Brian Sabean.
danmerqury - September 18, 2008
which means?
bring up your good pitchers like Lincecum when they’re young? Or let them wallow a bit in the minors where they’ll do you no good?
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
Bad, bad argument
Tim Lincecum’s first major league pitch was thrown at the age of 22 years, 10 months. Equivalent dates for the A’s pair would be somewhere between September 2010 and April 2011.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
dude, why do you bother?
it’s f*cking foolshgame…
xbhaskarx - September 18, 2008
I was more talking about Conor Gillaspie.
Anyway, we’re not planning on contending in 2009. Why rush them and possibly sacrifice some great years of pitching down the road? If we were contenders on paper for ‘09, I could maybe see trying them out, but otherwise, we’ve got to wait. We’ve got more than enough depth up here to tide us over.
danmerqury - September 18, 2008
Billy Beane is planning on contending in 2009...
he doesn’t want to see 9,000 fans per game out at that great stadium, with the great public transportation, called the Coli. Trust me on this, Beane wants to win the West in 2009.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
Well, of course he wants to win the west in 2009.
And I want to win the lottery, but neither are going to happen. The addition of Cahill and/or Anderson is not going to make us contenders. The Angels are, sadly, too good right now. Our team is too young, too inexperienced, and just not good enough. We need to let our glut of young outfielders grow and mature, and we need our infield prospects to blossom. Beane isn’t quite done rebuilding, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see another trade this offseason, giving us some real high-level infield prospects. Rest assured, Cahill and Anderson will be the cornerstones of a great rotation down the road. Let’s not rush them in an ill-guided attempt at putting a slightly less-mediocre team on the field in 2009.
Of course, there’s also the argument that Cahill and Anderson won’t be better pitchers in the majors in 2009 than our current rotation, which is definitely plausible.
danmerqury - September 18, 2008
I agree
Though I wouldn’t be opposed to a September callup to get their feet wet if the A’s are out of it and they haven’t already pitched a ton of innings. In that scenario, it’s a relatively pressure-free situation and not really “rushing” them.
In a perfect world, there’s no need for that. The A’s have a ton of pitching, and while Cahill/Anderson will likely be better than most of the guys you listed, they aren’t now and hopefully those guys are good enough that they won’t be next year.
thejd44 - September 18, 2008
September callups are a different kettle of fish
While they would still have roster and service time implications (and I think that the A’s should not under almost any circumstances use them in such a way that they will become free agents before the end of the 2016 season), I can see the argument for getting them some low-pressure innings at the big-league level.
Giving them 2 weeks in September, then calling them up for good at the end of April the next year is something I can theoretically get on board with. Though we’ll have to see who would potentially get “bumped” off the roster to make it happen.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
For once PT
we can agree, sir. My sentiments exactly. Let the gems continue to grow and mature without rushing them. Look at what happened to both Gonzos the A’s called up this year?
mrod - September 18, 2008
Duke, Gallagher, Braden, Eveland, Smith, Outman, Gio, DiNardo, Mazzarro, Simmons
mikev - September 17, 2008
Also, I'd bet that DiNardo and Saars would probably get some garbage time starts before C & A callups.
mikev - September 17, 2008
if you're good enough to pitch in the Olympics...
you’re good enough to start for the A’s. That’d be my rule.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Brett Hunter!
WaddellCanseco - September 17, 2008
Bad, bad argument
Tim Lincecum’s first major league pitch was thrown at the age of 22 years, 10 months. Equivalent dates for the A’s pair would be somewhere between September 2010 and April 2011.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
okay...
I’m not adamant about it. They’re young. But, if they’re better than the rest, they should be in the rotation. I don’t care how young they are.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
You really can't see ANYTHING about the issue
other than the nearsighted, narrow-minded calculation of “who’s best right now”? (Stipulating for argument’s sake that they are actually better, which I doubt they will be.)
I’m not sure whether to react with despair or bafflement.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
so, you're saying...
I don’t have your power of foresight? And, you can use lawyer talk with me… “assuming, arguendo…” I get it. One of Cahill or Anderson will be in the A’s rotation next year. Maybe both if one isn’t traded for a bat.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
If it's not my vocabulary, it's clearly your reading comp skills
You force me to hit you over the head with this, so:
There are many reasons for not automatically playing “the best player”. These include, but are not limited to (there’s some lawyer-speak for you):
1. Service time concerns,
2. Desire to preserve trade value of the guy he would be replacing,
3. Fear of injury or overuse of a young player,
4. Concern for the effect on the older player’s confidence,
5. Roster space issues.
ALL of these are reasons why the A’s should not promote Cahill or Anderson to the majors next season.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
very convincing...
NOT! I’m sorry counselor, you’ll have to file a supplemental brief, because none of that convinces me that Beane won’t throw his best players out there next year. If Cahill and Anderson are better than the rest, they’ll be in the majors.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
I'm really not interested in what WILL happen
Trying to read tea leaves for transactional moves is both boring and stupid. I’m saying what SHOULD happen.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
Other than #3, none of those are good
reasons. Actually #5 might be a good reason but I don’t understand what it means.
WaddellCanseco - September 18, 2008
#3 ia a shitty reason...
because it applies to almost everyone of our pitchers except Duke (who won’t be here anyway).
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
Greg Smith has a career high of 178 IP
Dana Eveland has a (new) career high of 177 IP.
Sean Gallagher has a career high of 164 IP.
Vince Mazzaro has a career high of approximately 180 IP.
Trevor Cahill has a career high of approximately 130 IP.
Brett Anderson has a career high of approximately 130 IP.
Both of them need an additional build-up year before they will be ready to handle a six-month starter’s workload.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
lol...
that’s what i LOVE about you PT. You tell me what they’ve done and, therefore, what they’re limited to doing. Hindsight is always good, unless you want to win a championship. Then, you gotta go for it. Now, I know, that’s not the lawyerly thing to do (and, believe me, I know), but in baseball, you sometimes gotta do it like the Rays and the Marlins.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
Winning a championship requires taking gambles that are known to be stupid?
This is news to me. Seems like the Red Sox were able to squeeze through last year without imposing stupid innings loads on their young players.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
huh?
non sequitur. Please accept my challenge to no-limit hold ’em. LOL For charity.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
Wait, what?
Actually, nevermind.
danmerqury - September 18, 2008
I feel like I'm speaking some kind of pidgin dialect
“Roster space issues.” As in, players take up a space. On the roster. Which means someone else can’t be in that space. Yes?
Putting players on the 40-man roster too early can result in pointlessly losing decent players to Rule 5, as well as using up options, although I think the latter isn’t too much of a concern for those two.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
no, you're not speaking pidgin to me...
I get what you’re saying. There just aren’t many on the 40-man roster I’d elect to keep over Cahill and Anderson. I hear what you’re saying… I just don’t agree.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
we have few decent players...
on our 40-man roster… do you want me to pick the two I’d delete? Gladly, I’ll do that.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
It's not "keep A over B"
It’s “keep A AND B, or just B”.
A+B>B unless A is completely worthless— and the A’s easily have 40 non-completely worthless players with enough pro time to be Rule 5 eligible.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
I'll delete two completely worthless ones...
if that will satisfy you.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
Two?
Dude, right now there are about 55 prospects in the org who are either on the 40-man or on track to be Rule 5 eligible by the end of next year. That means cutting 15 of them, not 2…
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
I'll cut two from the existing 40...
I’ll make the decision on the other 53 when you let me know who they are.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
After looking it up, you're right about
the coming roster crunch. Here are some of the guys that may be on the bubble after 2009 — Hannahan, Baisley, Recker, Mitchell, Davis, Murton, Herrera, Meyer, Hernandez, Kilby, Bailey, Petit, Sellers, Mitchinson, Webb, and Garcia.
I see no one on that list that would prevent me from putting the five best starters out there however. Did I miss someone important?
WaddellCanseco - September 18, 2008
Italiano and Lansford, at least
Possibly De Los Santos, I forget exactly how old he was when he signed his first pro contract.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
Yes but these guys are likely
no brainers to be added. I was focusing on the guys who might be affected by early promotions.
WaddellCanseco - September 18, 2008
So, you exclude the non-marginal prospects
and are then surprised that your list is a bunch of marginal prospects?
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
If that's what you mean, then #5 isn't
a good reason either. Nobody should suppress one of the top 5 starting pitchers for the sake of the 40th (actually about 43rd with 60-day DL) man on the roster.
WaddellCanseco - September 18, 2008
That's a great way to give away organizational depth for no benefit
The Giants, Royals, etc. have been very successfully shooting themselves in the foot with that strategy for some years now.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
Well you don't have to give it away --
you can trade it. Sometimes it works brilliantly — Vizcaino for Duchscherer — sometimes works decently — Harville for Saarloos — sometimes you do end up giving it away — DJ.
WaddellCanseco - September 18, 2008
fuck this keep the marginal prospects philosophy...
I’m tired of it. I’d say the vast majority of A’s fans are tired of it. We want some fuckin’ hitters on this team and damn the future. I’d trade every River Cat for a couple of decent bats. Every one. And, I don’t mean superstar bats, because I doubt anyone would trade two superstar bats for the River Cats. And, that kinda shows you what “organizational depth” means to winning. Nothing.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
So, the A's should promote Cahill and Anderson pointlessly
because the team needs hitters?!
Objection, relevance.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
No, I say promote them...
if they’re the best pitchers. Or trade their asses for bats. I’ll settle for either option.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
This entire thing shows me that you don't really understand how the process works
All of PT’s reasons are valid, as is the “If the team isn’t going anywhere, it doesn’t actually matter who is the best” argument.
Roster space issues are always a concern. I can’t even fathom how you don’t understand that.
thejd44 - September 18, 2008
These reasons, other than #3 strike
me as not seeing the forest for the trees. They’re all way way behind trying to win and trying to develop players. They’re minutiae.
WaddellCanseco - September 18, 2008
AN 3.0 strikes again
I don’t know how that comment ended up in two places.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
maybe a Slegna tried to field it
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
or would that be "a Slegnum"?
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
have you been drinking tonight?
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
I'm still hyper from the end of the game
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
it was a great ending...
unlike Blez, I didn’t turn it off and throw my remote. I felt a strange confidence. No proof, of course, but, I felt Ziggy would blow his first save, too.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
Tex's HR was almost predictable
He had absolutely murdered that double into the gap earlier. He was just on.
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
Dunno if I'd call it predictable considering who was pitching...
…but he did go down and get a good pitch for it. It wasn’t a cheap one.
Flashfire - September 18, 2008
besides, wouldn't they only have to jump...
over 6 of those guys to be in the rotation? Maybe only 5 because I’m assuming Duke won’t be here. That kinda improves their chances.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Must. Follow. Plan.
No room for… deviation.
UncleLeo - September 18, 2008
Except Duke has pitched well enough to deserve the #1 spot. Gallagher hasn't yet.
Flashfire - September 17, 2008
Joe Blanton kind of shot that whole correlation thing
Well, so did Carlos Reyes and before him Chris Codiroli.
Nico - September 17, 2008
But not Gil Heredia. He still rocks!
WaddellCanseco - September 17, 2008
Chris Codiroli
Aahhhh………….the fond memories of A’s sucktitude never cease to amaze me……
mrod - September 18, 2008
Yes to Duke
LibrariAN - September 17, 2008
The only way tonight would've been better
is if Cliff hit the plate, drove in the runs, ran to the mound to point up to the sky like in th parody of a jackass.
I really hope the Angels loss inspires them to lose here on out.
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
if Cliff had touched home plate...
wouldn’t that have been an inside-the-park HR? Just wondering?
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
No, single and a three-base error maybe, but not HR
Nico - September 17, 2008
i was thinking of that freakish bunt hitting the plate and bouncing up so high
But an inside the park HR would’ve been cool also!
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
It wasn't a bunt
It was a Baltimore Chop. Pull the bat back, then swing straight down on the top of the ball and try to hit it off the plate.
I haven’t seen someone actually attempt that at the MLB level in years. Worked great, though. Pennington had a clean hit before the errant throw.
K-Rod should have pocketed the ball. Which makes it all the more satisfying that he idiotically didn’t. :-)
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
I've never seen one of those
PT, you’re like AN’s baseball wikipedia.
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
Watching the replay
the ball struck home plate more to the rear than the front of home plate. Amazing the way it went straight down. Nearly too far back. Did Pennington say he was attempting to bounce it off of home plate?? I’d say that deliberately hitting a ball off of home plate off a high-velocity pitcher is far more difficult to achieve than any bunt. I think he simply got lucky.
That’s one back for many “foul by inches” rockets down the line.
One won lost won - September 17, 2008
yeah, he got lucky...
it was, nevertheless, exquisite.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
I think he meant he chopped down to hit a ground ball, not necessarily a Baltimore Chop.
He said he swung because of the wheel play.
WaddellCanseco - September 17, 2008
in the postgame interview he said
he was just trying to hit it on the ground. He called the bounce off homeplate “fortunate”.
OaklandSi - September 18, 2008
You can only advance as many bases as the winning run did
Two, in this case.
Also, best case scenario it’s a single and a three-base error (or multiple errors).
Does make me wonder if anyone’s ever hit a walk-off inside the parker before, and if so, when it last happened.
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
That would be wild
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
A walk-off inside the park grand slam would be nice
Nico - September 17, 2008
Now that I'm almost sure has never happened
Home team has to be down by exactly 3, bases loaded, inside the park HR? Not bloody likely.
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
Only has to happen once
You don’t really expect to see a midget come up to bat either. But enough about Freddie Patek.
Nico - September 17, 2008
Wikipedia thinks Roberto Clemente did it
I’ll see if I can find the game.
Soaker - September 17, 2008
This must be the game
July 25, 1956
There’s no play-by-play so I can’t confirm that it was inside-the-park. I looked for Pirates home games where Clemente had at least 4 RBI and the Pirates won by one run, then checked to see if Clemente hit a grand slam in the bottom of the 9th. This is the only game that qualifies.
Soaker - September 17, 2008
I was the only one alive...
I don’t remember, though.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
It looks like it really did happen
(Source)
Soaker - September 17, 2008
I would have liked to have seen that...
I was only 7 months old, so I wouldn’t have remembered it, but still…
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
I remember it well ;)
I was at a bar named “The Ofice” (sic) which was one of my favorite hangouts, as I could tell my first wife, “Hey, I gotta work late at "The Ofice”. They had the Pirates game on the radio, on account of the number of customers who wanted to listen in. No one could believe what happened.
I told the barkeeper, “Barkeep, any other doughboys from Great War in here, let ‘em know I’m buying. That home-run is one for the books, and it calls for celebrating!”
But, there were no other old vets in there. I had already calculated that my generous offer would end with no subscriptions, so I consumed three more rounds between laughs with the younger customers, and still got change back from the dollar.
One won lost won - September 22, 2008
by the way...
great research.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Well, I'm surprised
The cumulative probabilities of that situation are such that even with 100,000 or so MLB games played, I would not have expected it to ever arise.
Then again, you could say the same about the DiMaggio streak.
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
Parodying a jackass proves one thing
You are a bigger one. Just win, baby.
MobiusKlein - September 17, 2008
Unless it's rubbing it into Kry-Rod's stupid face.
mikev - September 17, 2008
If there was one exception to the standard rule...
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
i'll say it again
F-Rod is my favorite player for the A’s to beat! =D
gotgreen - September 17, 2008
Me too, and #2 is Lackey
So…a pretty good series so far!
Nico - September 17, 2008
Smith gets a no-decision, Ziggy gets the win
Yeah, that seems fair.
Nico - September 17, 2008
Smith is the unlukiest pitcher on this team...
I hope he gets 5 runs per game in run support next year. What’s it been this year? 1.3 runs per game?
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
2.7? Among the five lowest all time for A's pitchers
Nico - September 17, 2008
2nd worst in Oakland history, behind Matt Keough
(They showed a graphic during the game.)
Keough weirdly had the 5th worst run support the season later. His teammates really didn’t like him very much. Of course, it didn’t help that they were also terrible at baseball.
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
It was sad to see Ziggy give up the bomb but
1) it had to happen sometime
2) It allowed God to treat us to a nice memory for 2008 and deliver a reminder to K-Fraud that even God himself doesn’t like that tool celebrating.
I am sure God allowed himself to give K-Rod the middle finger when that happened.
Trainman - September 17, 2008
So you're saying I'm God?
Nico - September 17, 2008
hehe awesome
The Golden One - September 17, 2008
God, played by James Mason
Flashfire - September 17, 2008
You would be OK in that role
You hate Lackey and K-Rod so that is one of the prerequisites
Trainman - September 17, 2008
and, Nico is a Raider fan
another prerequisite.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Hardly.
I HATE football.
Nico - September 17, 2008
oh, my mistake...
you’re disqualified.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
That's fine.
I don’t care for the “long beard” look anyway.
Nico - September 17, 2008
I bet you can grow a great beard...
but, it is the non-Raider fan that disqualifies you. I, on the other hand, have been a Raider fan since 1960. It’s my inability to grow a beard that disqualifies me. I kinda look like a Chernobyl victim when I try to grow a beard.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
That's not what the Brothers Gruff say.
green star oakland - September 17, 2008
But I though you love Billygoats?
mrod - September 18, 2008
This evening ONLY!
tidy up before you lock the door….
…also, no tsunamis after dark, no one can get it on video.
One won lost won - September 17, 2008
I don't usually give any credence to God helping decide the outcome of a game or even caring about sports...
…but tonight’s ending, thus taking Ziggy off the hook for the loss, doesn’t hurt that idea.
Flashfire - September 17, 2008
I have this image of God at a party, going,
“I’m serious, I do not know him.”
Nico - September 17, 2008
Last night an orgy
Tonight theology.
I love this place.
LibrariAN - September 17, 2008
Why must it be one or the other?
Nico - September 17, 2008
I've been at many an orgy where I screamed
“Oh GOD!!!! JESUS!!! OH GOD!!!!”
Nico - September 17, 2008
Orgy is a plural and not a mono thing
You’re just doing the self lovin’ wrong
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
you can probably get mono at an orgy
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
But going solo would be weird
WaddellCanseco - September 17, 2008
Maybe he was the only human being there
baa baa
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
Absolutely it's both
God is very very earthy
LibrariAN - September 17, 2008
God is a hippie?
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
If so, he must have been asleep last week
when the Berkeley oak grove came down…
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
God loves his Cal football
So he isn’t a hippie
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
God loves Cal football?
Please explain last Saturday.
PaulThomas - September 17, 2008
De Lawd slept-in.
The Dogfather - September 18, 2008
God was weeping then
Were you there, did you see it? So sad and depressing.
LibrariAN - September 18, 2008
Not if you're a Cal football fan
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
At least we don't have to see Ziggy give up another homer until, like, 2011.
Right?
mikev - September 17, 2008
Not until he changes his delivery again
The next one he gives up will probably be lefty.
Nico - September 17, 2008
Has Franky ever celebrated a save so hard that he's punched his oncomming catcher in the face?
Zonis - September 17, 2008
Yes.
Nico - September 17, 2008
Imagine if that was the last game of the season and Frankie needed one save for the
record and that happened.
Now that I would pay 1,000 bucks to see in person.
Trainman - September 17, 2008
Make it tied in the AL West standings and I'll pony up $2,000
Nico - September 17, 2008
How many games we back from 2nd?
buckfan6 - September 17, 2008
So here's what happened to me
I turned off the game after Ziggy gave up the bomb to Teixeira and threw the remote down.
I stomped downstairs to start unloading the dishwasher. I paused for a second and thought, you know what, a hard core fan doesn’t give up and I’m not a sulking baby like K-Rod. So I turned the game back on to see Barton’s base hit and the idiotic play that let him advance to second.
The rest was just awesome. I had to stifle my screams of joy because my daughter had just been put to bed.
Tyler Bleszinski - September 17, 2008
Good man
Most importantly, how’s the remote?
Flashfire - September 17, 2008
Just came open and the batteries hit the wall
I was frankly surprised that I cared that much about a game that was essentially meaningless for this team. Apparently I care a lot whenever the team plays the Angels regardless of record.
Tyler Bleszinski - September 17, 2008
Blez
Are yall getting anymore in bily we trust shirts in L or Xl?
buckfan6 - September 17, 2008
$1K
I paid that much to see the Rolling Stones.
I screamed tonight like I scream for them.
LibrariAN - September 17, 2008
Off to bed
10:30 already. Time flies when you having fun.
LibrariAN - September 17, 2008
're
Screaming affects one’s grammar.
LibrariAN - September 17, 2008
baltimore chop
Pennington said in the postgame interview that he deliberately chopped it because the Angels had the wheel play on. The odds of executing a chop that perfectly can’t be high, but he did it. If it hadn’t hit the plate, it still probably would have gotten the runner to third, depending on how the A’s have their grass cut.
vk - September 17, 2008
leave it to the minor league September call-up...
I doubt he had the green light from Geren.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
DFA!
WaddellCanseco - September 17, 2008
Buan has Lackey on the radio
That is really reaching the bottom of the barrell.
Trainman - September 17, 2008
Buan must not want any more bay area listeners
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
WTF? Why?
Flashfire - September 17, 2008
Hopefully to taunt him.
green star oakland - September 17, 2008
Haha! Fangraph!
Pennington with a +.494 WPA, and K-Rod with a -.791. Jesus.
danmerqury - September 17, 2008
My joy displayed in mathematics
glainvin
oaklandSMASH - September 17, 2008
I wish the Dow had looked like that today...
I wouldn’t be a totally broke soon-to-be father of two, in that case. Depression. And, that does have a double meaning.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Damn - did I miss that ?
Galt will be having a sibling ?
green star oakland - September 17, 2008
yes...
you missed my Name the Child II post? LOL October 16… Galt will be a big brother.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Wow ! Do you know what flavour ?
And any names picked out ?
green star oakland - September 17, 2008
lol
you can even vote! Will I love Bodacious as much as Galt?
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
I completely missed that, what with preschool starting
but I would have voted for Eroark.
green star oakland - September 17, 2008
hmmm... interesting choice...
I’ll pass it along to her. She’s very stubborn, though.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Oh, and as to the titular question
my experience with 28/25yr old boys and a 3yr old girl is that you love them all the most.
green star oakland - September 17, 2008
I do love 25 to 28 year old girls...
does that count?
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Only if your wife catches you doing it.
alox - September 18, 2008
good thing about me is...
I don’t have a wife.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
So what you're saying is....
that you’ve already been caught?
alox - September 18, 2008
No, what I'm saying is...
I’ve never been married. I’m one of the smart ones.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
Roark is my vote too.
Its unusual and special. Sorry.
lynnzgal - September 18, 2008
I missed this entire game
because my former boss chose this night to come to town…….but the game thread did a wonderful job of reliving it!
Englishmajor - September 17, 2008
Go on MLB.com and they have the winning play
in the 9th inning on “Gameday”.
I watched it about 5-10 times. It’s like being full at Thanksgiving, but you keep eating piece after piece of pie for dessert, because it is just sooooooooooo goooooooood!!!!
One won lost won - September 17, 2008
Oh, great idea!
I just watched it….I love how quickly K-Rod and Scioscia hustle into the clubhouse. And Swooney jumping up and down.
Englishmajor - September 17, 2008
And whichever of the Slegna who ran over to try to pick the ball up
and keeps falling down. Priceless.
Englishmajor - September 17, 2008
I can hear the Benny Hill-style waa-waah music in the background
JediLeroy - September 17, 2008
i must ask...
who on AN is responsible for coining the phrase “Slegna?” Because it is both brilliant and appropriate, at the same time. I must know. So I can give props.
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
I believe that honor goes to ...
Force
Wow. 2005.
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
wow...
I thought it was much more recent. More good research tonight.
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
Dreggie Spillits ?
green star oakland - September 17, 2008
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!! This win was more fun than yesterday’s win. FRod is my least favorite human being and it’s always fun to see him screw up.
drmmerchk - September 17, 2008
Does anyone know when
they are getting anymore of those shirts In beane we trust in L or XL
buckfan6 - September 17, 2008
I was at the game, and all I have to say is
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
monkeyball - September 17, 2008
Thats all that had to be said.
lynnzgal - September 18, 2008
Holy crap!
I completely and utterly FAIL. I can’t believe I missed this game! I have so much reading to catch up on in the morning…
whiteshoes40 - September 17, 2008
you slept until 10 PM?
FoolshGame22 - September 17, 2008
Haha, no, though that sounds nice...
I was out tonight, away from TV/radio/internet till now. I would’ve loved to have watched this game… but I’ll make sure to watch all the highlights online.
whiteshoes40 - September 18, 2008
whiteshoes40 had a date...
lalalalala….
FoolshGame22 - September 18, 2008
It may not be over yet.
WaddellCanseco - September 18, 2008
/determined to outscore favorite team?
The Dogfather - September 18, 2008
Speaking of FAIL,
someone’s got to make a ’shopped FAIL pic/video clip out of this play.
PaulThomas - September 18, 2008
As you wish, PT
doctorK - September 18, 2008
LMAO. I love it.
Blicks - September 18, 2008
Epic!
mrod - September 18, 2008
I see "Angles" was fixed ;-)
Flashfire - September 18, 2008
Try typing with 3-month old twins...
Typos will happen. I found a few. :-)
louismg - September 18, 2008
I love the small ironies of this game
Ty Waller was seriously angling to give the F.O. cause to shift DeFrancesco back to the third-base coaching box (having cost the A’s 2 runs early with his overly cautious stop signs), and then his stop sign on Not-Corey at second caused N-C to pull up lame, forcing Geren to bring in Crosby … who later made the game-saving play on the GIDP ball up the middle in the ninth.
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
So you don't think Pennington makes that play easily?
thejd44 - September 18, 2008
dunno
I haven’t seen much of Pennington. I just don’t know what his range is. I do think it was an excellent play by Cros.
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
AHHHHHH!!!!
The drugs! They made me sleep through the bottom of the 8th and the entire 9th! I missed it all!
FAIL.
Jennifer - September 18, 2008
You don't admit those things, punkin'
You just join in.
“Woohoo!”
“K-Rod sucks!”
“Orgy!”
67MARQUEZ - September 18, 2008
Have you been reading my journal?
Jennifer - September 18, 2008
You left it out again
Could not resist
67MARQUEZ - September 18, 2008
NARCOLEPSY MOJO!!!
monkeyball - September 18, 2008
Does anyone remember...
Joe Nathan?
mattman - September 18, 2008
What a game!
1- Thoroughly disgusted when Tex hit the HR. Almost turned off the tv at that point, but thought, “Oh what the hell, it’s only another half inning and soon I’ll be complaining there’s no baseball at all to watch.”. I’m glad I stuck around.
2- Fom my vantage point, it appeared to me that the Mathews error really got under K-Rod’s skin and he couldn’t even think straight after that. It made me think of Kendall’s great “steal” of home a couple years ago, even though it didn’t have the same literal finality. I wonder if it did the same to him?
UncleLeo - September 18, 2008
Ok, I just wandered over to the Anegls' site...
…to check their fan reaction.
Angel fans aren’t exactly the deepest thinkers, are they?
UncleLeo - September 18, 2008
Which is why they are Angels fans.
Blicks - September 18, 2008
Great win tonight!
Love seeing KFraud and the Slenga’s fall flat on their faces! Next year will be our year as our pitching will be incredible and Beane will make a trade for a big bat. I really feel we are one bat away from greatness.
A'sfansince1970 - September 18, 2008
It will? He will?
Ok, the pitching I’m not worried about. The hitting?… eh, maybe. I feel that one big bat could get them back to being competitive. It would take more than one to reach the “greatness” level.
UncleLeo - September 18, 2008
Oh, and one more thing.
The Slenga’s (I love that!) will lose in the first round to the Rays/Sox/whoever. They will plummet to suckitude and the A’s will play really well the rest of the season, giving us momentum for next year.
A'sfansince1970 - September 18, 2008
Now that....
I can get behind!
mrod - September 18, 2008
Wait, somebody posted a Megan Fox picture?
mikev - September 18, 2008
I knew that was coming!
<Apparently, so did she…..>
mrod - September 18, 2008
in the immortal words of the Rev
ArakSOT - September 18, 2008
Classic..........
Let’s sweep those bitches today! Go A’s!!!!
mrod - September 18, 2008
I love this comment from Halos Heaven
Rev, that’s just funny! However…
GMJ/HGH Jr f’ing blew that from here to eternity! Same guy can’t catch a flyball with one hand! Get him the F outtahere! I honestly do not care if they DFA him!
Whodathunk we would be rooting for a former Ranger come August…?
by K3YEROUT on Sep 18, 2008 12:53 AM EDT
mrod - September 18, 2008
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