This thread will serve as a discussion board for today and then become the game thread once the action starts tonight.
The A's face the Rangers in game two of a four game series tonight at 7:05 p.m. Greg Smith (7-14, 4.05 ERA) faces the Rangers' Matt Harrison (7-3, 5.76 ERA).
Tonight's starters provide an interesting glimpse at the limitations of evaluating Win-Loss stats for pitchers:
Among qualifiers, Smith is 22nd out of 41in the AL in ERA, 27th in WHIP, and 8th in Batting Average Against (.242)...yet he's tied for 2nd in losses with 14.
Harrison, if he qualified, would be in the bottom four in the entire AL in WHIP, ERA, and BAA...yet he's 7-3 in his 12 starts.
One of Harrison's wins came in Oakland on July 26th, his fourth start as a big leaguer. The 23-year-old allowed only one earned run in five innings of work in a 9-4 Rangers victory. His other 11 starts haven't been nearly as successful, as evidenced by his 1.58 WHIP and 29-24 K-BB ratio.
A few conversation topics for this morning:
*The A's are in their final homestand of the season. This is your second-to-last weekend to catch them; the team's final home date is Sunday the 21st against Seattle. Will you go to see them one last time in '09?
*The A's may finish the season with the second-worst home attendance in all of baseball, ahead of only the woeful Marlins, who drew only 300 fans for a day game last week. If you clicked on the attendance link, you'll notice the A's are 27th, but that figure is inflated by the "home" games in Japan at the beginning of the year. Excluding Japan, the A's average attendance is 20,001 per game in '08. That's down 3,700 per game from '07, and might make the team wary of significantly raising payroll back up to the $60-75MM range. I think we'll see a sub-$45MM team on the field next year, which still allows for a low-profile FA signing or two.
*Mark Ellis is not the only Athletic that might net a compensatory pick in the '09 ML Draft. Did you know that Alan Embree is on track to earn Type B compensation status this offseason? This means that if the team 1) declines his 3MM option for '09, 2) offers him arbitration, and 3) he declines and signs with another team; the A's would receive a compensatory "sandwich" pick between the first and second rounds. This is actually an extremely likely scenario, for a few reasons: The A's have a deep enough bullpen to make Embree expendable, and the draft-pick scenario is attractive, and also, Embree's pitched at least well enough to be useful to another team, and he won't cost the team he signs with a draft pick, since he's not a Type A free agent. This also helps explain why the A's pulled Embree back when the Twins claimed him on waivers earlier this season.
So, yes, Mark Ellis and Alan Embree have the same compensation value(!), and could potentially net the A's a pair of draft picks right around slot #40-50 overall, approximately. Ellis and Embree's "equal" value is quite an indictment of the ridiculous compensation rankings, and an obvious indicator of how much they need to be revised in the next Collective Bargaining Agreement. I wouldn't be surprised if this had been a small factor in the A's signing Embree two offseasons ago. Hell, if Embree had pitched as well this year as he did in '07 and picked up 15 more saves, he had an outside chance of being labeled a Type A and netting two high draft picks. Yet his real value doesn't come close to that of Ellis, or Suzuki, or Dioner Navarro, Carlos Quentin, Nick Swisher and Jermaine Dye (yep, you guessed it: all Type B's classifications, just like Embree).
*Embree and Ellis are the A's only two potential FAs who are in line to reach FA compensation (A or B) status (Frank Thomas, Emil Brown, and Keith Foulke will all fall signfiicantly short). However, if the A's hope to get compensation, this has 40-man roster implications.
While FAs that aren't offered arbitration (like Foulke, or Emil Brown) are removed from the 40-man roster, I think FA's that are offered arby are treated differently. If a player is offered arbitration, I think he has to remain on the 40-man roster until he declines or accepts the offer. This makes sense, because if Ellis or Embree accepted, he'd still be on the team in '09, and so they should be occupying a roster spot. But arbitration decisions don't have to made until December...so Ellis and Embree would need to remain on the 40-man roster through the Rule 5 draft on November 21.
Edit, courtesy of jasonlbe and PT: All of the team's free agents are removed from the team's 40-man roster at season's end, but if the team hopes to receive draft-pick compensation for Embree and Ellis, the pair would need to be offered arbitration and if they accepted, would need to be added back to the 40-man roster by December 7.
That might mean 1-2 fewer slots that can be used to protect fringy prospects like Jesus Guzman, Brad Kilby, Jose Garcia, Ryan Webb, Jamie Richmond, and Donnie Murphy, all of whom and more were discussed in Paul's 40-man roster diary here. Now that Baisley's been added, if you could only protect one more Rule 5 eligible player not currently on the 40-man roster, who would it be?
*And lastly...how about a poll? I know that Mark Ellis is extremely popular here, and there is still probably a chance he comes back in '09. But when you vote, I'm going to ask you to assume, as painful as this might be for you, that he will be gone, and that someone currently within the organization will be filling the starting 2b void in '09.
Who do you think that will be?
0 recs | 288 comments
actually, since Ellis will likely have shoulder surgery
(for cartilage damage, not for his old labrum injury), there’s a good chance that he might prefer not to opt for free agency, in order to rebuild his value in 2009. If that’s the case the A’s may opt to sign him to a one year contract for alot less than he might otherwise have gotten. I’d only expect this if the A’s decide that their internal options are either not good enough or not ready to take over second base in 2009.
OaklandSi - September 12, 2008
But he has a better chance of rebuilding value...
By playing in the NL and in a hitter’s park.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
that's true, if someone else will give him
a year’s contract — and if they’re convinced he’s healthy someone probably will. I was just wondering whether the A’s might offer him something if they’re not convinced any of the above are ready or able for 2009.
OaklandSi - September 12, 2008
Dave Feldman also thinks the A's might have a better chance
he made the point that hurt or not, Ellis did not have a good season at the plate.
OaklandSi - September 12, 2008
I'm not sure I understand this, but I understand part of it, so onward we go:
Mark Ellis had a normal year at the plate with the single and sole exception of his BABIP. Whether that was suppressed by injury or just bad luck, we don’t know. What we do know is that if he is healthy there’s no reason not to expect him to hit like his career averages.
PaulThomas - September 12, 2008
Anecdotally, it seemed like he hit a ridiculous amount of popups this year.
Do the stats bear that out? What was his LD/popfly break down?
Maybe he had to adjust his swing slightly to compensate for his injury, and dipping the shoulder led to weaker contact.
notsellingjeans - September 13, 2008
His LD rate is actually improved this year
As for popups, he’s hit about 20 more of them this year than he would have if he had tracked his prior career average. That sounds like a lot, but keep in mind that his career batting average on non-popup contact is only about .337, so we’re talking like 6-7 hits here over the whole season.
Even if the rise in popup rate is 100% skill-based, which is by no means clear, it accounts for less than half of the differential in BABIP. His BABIP if you add 7 hits for fewer popups is .268— 19 points better than his actual BABIP in the real world but still 25 points below his career average.
That doesn’t mean that the rest of the drop is luck— the injury could be affecting him in ways which do not necessarily show up in the very narrow and generic “launch angle” calculus that classifies batted balls into types, eg less forceful ground balls. But I’d say the odds are 80-90% that it’s either luck or the injury, and not him just suddenly losing his hitting ability at age 31.
PaulThomas - September 13, 2008
good info Paul, thank you
notsellingjeans - September 14, 2008
Two tix tonight in 225. Call my cell if you can meet me at the BART bridge around 6:45-7.
415.307.1600.
The Dogfather - September 12, 2008
So you are saying Jose Castillo at 3rd?
DCinWC - September 12, 2008
I am actually surprised
that our attendance average is that high.
67MARQUEZ - September 12, 2008
actually, the Giants' attendance decline
in 2008 has been much greater than the A’s — although they had farther to fall from last year.
OaklandSi - September 12, 2008
My real choice is Chavez,
but that wasn’t one of the listed options.
WaddellCanseco - September 12, 2008
Alan Embree is going to be a Type B?
Wow. That is some f***ed up.
Not even a question what the team should do at this point. Decline his option and offer him arbitration. He’s a lefty with a fastball and a pulse— someone will sign him.
PaulThomas - September 12, 2008
The main question with Embree
will be whether he wants to pitch another year, or just retire after this season. He will be 39 in January, and I believe he indicated earlier this year that he was giving retirement strong consideration. Those things change as the season goes on though. No doubt, he can get a job in an MLB bullpen next year if he wants one.
Soaker - September 12, 2008
He talked before 2007 about how his deal with the A's was the last he'd sign
And he might not even play in 2008. Of course, like you said, that can change. But he definitely has been talking about it for a while.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
I think the A's should hold onto Embree.
Did you guys see that A’s commercial where they call him grandpa? How can you repace that comedic gold with a draft pick?
VORP is too nerdy - September 12, 2008
what if the draft pick is Will Ohman?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x698gb_ohman-does-carey_shortfilms
oakinboston - September 12, 2008
Something about that doesn't sound right
I didn’t know you can decline an option and still offer arbitration. That seems like a loophole in the entire system.
Anyway, I think Embree will retire after the season if/when the A’s decline his option. He might accept arbitration though, and the last thing I want is him on the A’s another year. It was a huge mistake not to move him before this season, and keeping him another year would be inexcusable.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
It really doesn't hurt the team that much though
Worst-case scenario, he accepts and you have a left-handed reliever making 3 million. Maybe he puts up a decent year, maybe he doesn’t. It’s not like he’s a hitter who’d be taking away at-bats that could go to another young promising guy. A seventh reliever isn’t really depriving anyone of an opportunity.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
And keep in mind:
arbitration contracts are not fully guaranteed. They’re partially guaranteed, mind you. But not fully. If you release a guy before (I think) March 15 you only have to pay a guy a relatively small fraction of his salary.
PaulThomas - September 12, 2008
Didn't know that
Good detail, and good knowledge, as always PT.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
How small is the fraction?
And is it a percentage of the deal or a flat amount?
Mostly, Embree just isn’t as good as a handful of lefties I think will probably be in the bullpen next year. I don’t think he brings a lot to the table anymore, and he’s not worth $3 million.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
but an extra 40th-50th overall draft pick is worth something significant
So there is some benefit to assuming that risk (the risk that he’ll accept arbitration).
But I also think that Embree might’ve grown sour of Oakland, and may be less likely to accept arbitration than AN thinks. I seem to remember him grumbling privately about Geren’s management or his usage of relievers earlier in the year. He’s also close to riding into the sunset…if he plays, wouldn’t he want to play for a contender, with other guys in their 30s like him?
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
From Cot's, describing the outcome of an arbitration hearing:
The panel, without opinion, awards the player a one-year, non-guaranteed contract at one salary or the other. If the player is cut before the 16th day before the season begins (March 14, 2007), he is entitled only to 30 days’ termination pay. If the player is cut during spring training but after the 16th day before the season begins (between March 15 and March 31, 2007), he is entitled only to 45 days’ termination pay.
30 days’ termination pay for a player with a $3 million contract is approximately $500,000.
PaulThomas - September 12, 2008
Worth it to offer arby for sure
That makes it a slam dunk, if it wasn’t already.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Is he trade-eligable during this period?
b/c swinging a deal for a /a couple of low-A guys at that point wouldn’t hurt either.
DMOAS - September 12, 2008
And
If we did keep him and he falls again into the pattern of doing better in odd numbered years (that is his MO, right?) and starts the year off well, we could have a trade chip for a deadline deal. If that happens, the return would hopefully be better, or at least equal to, the draft pick we would have had if he refused.
5Aces - September 12, 2008
It's not a loophole because they are two different processes
Arbitration is a rule in the CBA governing what happens when a player isn’t under contract. Options are part of a player’s contract in and of themselves. It’s the very act of declining the option that makes him “not under contract.”
PaulThomas - September 12, 2008
Well, the "hole" I'm referring to
Is essentially getting out of a deal for the purposes of the draft pick. I just feel like if you decline an option, you shouldn’t be allowed to then benefit from that by getting the draft pick. Something about it just doesn’t seem quite right. But if that’s how it is, then I hope the A’s take advantage of it.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
Keep in mind
If you decline the option and then offer arb, the player can still take you up on it. So teams have to be careful doing this, particularly with long-settled players who would prefer to not have to move. A lot of times arbitration will not end up being offered when a team declines an option on a guy at the end of a long contract. (EG I don’t expect Mike Hampton and Garret Anderson to be offered arbitration for 2009 when their respective teams decline their options.)
PaulThomas - September 12, 2008
Wasn't there some discussion
in another thread about a change to the CBA effective this year where teams will no longer have to offer arbitration to type B free agents in order to get the compensation pick?
andeux - September 12, 2008
Found it
here
The theme for today is Will Ohman.
andeux - September 12, 2008
Wow, great find andeux
That’s a really important link. So then there’s no need to offer Ellis or Embree arbitration.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
RIght, I forgot about that
At this point, I don’t know why they don’t just abandon the arbitration procedure for free agents altogether. It’s practically a dead letter at this point.
PaulThomas - September 12, 2008
agreed, especially considering the all the behind the scenes agreements about players declining arb before the end of the season
mikev - September 12, 2008
As for the poll
I voted for Donnie Murphy because I still think the guy can play. Pennington would be my second choice. I’m not picking Petit because I want him to be the shortstop next year, and I don’t think Eric Patterson can do much of anything except run fast (and draw a few walks). The only way Hannahan is on the 40-man next year is if the A’s do nothing about third base, and Guzman just hasn’t done enough at higher levels.
But I don’t see this happening. Murphy couldn’t hit well playing once a week so he lost his opportunity (of course, guys like Crosby and Hannahan can’t hit playing everyday and keep theirs).
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
Voted Patterson in the poll, changed my mind....
Murphy
Patterson
Cliffy
Guzman
Petit (should be playing SS for AAA; maybe the most promising of the group, but he needs to improve his hitting down there)
Hannahan (would be bad at 2B, I think)
mikeA - September 12, 2008
honest question
Why do you have Patterson ranked 1 or 2?
monkeyball - September 12, 2008
No competition....
he’s probably the best bet in that group as far as offense, although his offense is bad. Pennington and Petit are basically guarateed to be terrible on offense, whereas Patterson won’t be any worse and could be ok. Guzman probably isn’t any better defensively, and could use a little more time in the minors. I don’t think his bat will be that great, either.
mikeA - September 12, 2008
I DEFINITELY think it should be Patterson
He hasn’t shown much yet in the majors, but his minor league numbers are excellent for a 2B. I think the A’s almost have to have him start to open the year next year. Give him a real shot; if he shows nothing after a few months then play Pennington or something, but I think Patterson has the best skill set here.
Everyone else would be pretty weak:
Pennington: very weak minor league numbers. His best assets, plate discipline and speed, are assets that Patterson also has, and Patterson can also hit. Pennington might have better D though.
Petit: Better D but not as good a hitter.
Hannahan: Has proven his bat is not good enough for him to be a major league regular.
Murphy: Same as Hannahan.
Guzman: Has proven nothing above AA.
Have someone work with Patterson on his defense in the off-season and he’s easily the best option.
Philip Christy - September 12, 2008
Hannahan
Not in terms of future projection, but TODAY, I think he might actually be the best hitter in that group.
And that’s a scary, sad thing.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Depends if the pitcher he's facing has a fastball.
OldhamA - September 12, 2008
Re: Murphy
If Patterson hasn’t proven he can’t hit, then Murphy hasn’t either. Murphy has had 200 more PA, but has been a better hitter. And he’s definitely better defensively. They’re the same age, and while Patterson’s overall minor league numbers have been somewhat better, it’s not to the extent that it’s clear he’s a better overall option. My worry about Murphy is that this year he’s striking out more and walking less. He seems to have regressed a bit. Of course Patterson hasn’t proven anything in the way of being a major leaguer. Murphy, at least, can be a utility guy (seems the A’s have plenty of those).
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
I agree Murphy has regressed...
but he’s also had a few critical development years that have been slightly marred by inconsistent playing time.
For his entire stretch as the team’s utility infielder/hopeful platoon player, he’s received very inconsistent playing time (and rightfully so; he’s sucked).
Maybe he can’t succeed in that role, and he can only be successful with 4 at bats every day. Or, he be completely incapable of big league success. I agree that the latter is far more likely, but given that 2b appears to be an open race, I threw his name in. If the team considers him a candidate, though, they’ll have to add him to the 40-man roster, because I doubt he’ll re-sign with the A’s this offseason if he’s a minor league free agent.
The real blame goes with the Royals, who purchased his contract way to early and screwed with his development by wasting his option years.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Where have we heard that refrain before...
PaulThomas - September 12, 2008
:)
Butler? Gordon? Every player they’ve ever had? :)
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
I'm probably the biggest Murphy fan on this board
I think he has (or had) a lot of actual talent to be a decent regular. I just fear that chance has been blown. What I don’t really understand is why Patterson is getting the chance that I don’t think Murphy ever really got. I just don’t see enough of a difference in their history to warrant that.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
Beane has gone on record
Saying he is going to be agressive in free agency and that the team has payroll flexibility, so attendance isnt going to deter him from that.
pbra17 - September 12, 2008
Did you vote for Bill King today?
Just a friendly reminder.
Go A’s!
LongTimeFan - September 12, 2008
good riddance to 2008
I live on the east coast but I followed, watched, or listened to every A’s game until the all star break, which we all know what followed. I"m actually glad that the A’s have such bad attendance; this will teach Wolff and Beane a lesson for putting suck a crap product on the field. The fans are the consumers, so I don’t see why we should continue to support a bad product by going to the games.
batterbatter - September 12, 2008
TOTM
Typo of the month: “suck a crap”
monkeyball - September 12, 2008
copyright
I think I should copyright that term.
batterbatter - September 12, 2008
It's a pretty grotesque image
But it works remarkably well. Quite a new epithet you’ve just coined.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
"Tell me, how exactly does one suck a fuck?"
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
I'm beginning to doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion
monkeyball - September 12, 2008
Chut up!
Philip Christy - September 12, 2008
Baby mice!
schmifty - September 12, 2008
The attendance issue makes me laugh
A losing season last year, then trading the team’s best (or at least most popular) pitcher and hitter equals losing the crowd.
There’s more I should write on this but the topic has been talked to death.
grover - September 12, 2008
Not to mention
they raised ticket prices. There’s no way the team should be whining about attendance after all that.
Philip Christy - September 12, 2008
Aren't tickets to A's games still one of the 5 best values in all of baseball?
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
Could paying any money to see an A’s game these days be considered a good value?
I kid, I kid.
Philip Christy - September 12, 2008
Nope
Flashfire - September 12, 2008
The crowd isn't there when this team is winning
They don’t support the A’s no matter what…20,000 a year whether they go to the world series or finish in last place
streetisclosedin08 - September 12, 2008
What Lew would refer to as "inelastic demand"
leading to much follow-up discussion on AN about the definitions of that term, and whether it was used appropriately.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
40 man question and Offering Arbitration
I believe once a player is granted free agency he is removed from your roster. So even though we offer arbitration he is not counted against your 40 man roster. Once/if they accept then you do have to get them back on the roster.
jasonlbe - September 12, 2008
I'm virtually certain this is correct
It’s the act of granting free agency that removes a guy from the roster, not the act of “not offering arbitration”. Think about the alternative— players wouldn’t come off teams’ 40-man rosters until after the Winter Meetings and the Rule 5 draft. That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
PaulThomas - September 12, 2008
You are both right, and I was wrong.
I hadn’t thought about the fact that teams don’t even need to offer arby until after the Rule 5 draft date. So, just as you and jasonlbe both said, it is indeed true that all FA’s – even ones who will likely be offered arbitration, like Ellis and Embree – are removed from the 40-man at the end of the season.
So, that gives the team an extra 40-man roster slot or two to play with…but, they would still need to be prepared to add Ellis/Embree back to the 40-man on December 7th if they accepted the arbitration offer.
The Rule 5 draft is then four days later, on December 11th.
So, by November 20th at the latest (the last day to add players for protection from the Rule 5 draft), you might see the A’s add Recker and 1-2 other guys, and leave the 40-man roster at 38-39 players, in anticipation of picking a Rule 5 draft pick or re-adding Embree/Ellis to the 40-man if they eventually accept arbitration by December 7th.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Ugh!...
…does it have to be an internal choice?
UncleLeo - September 12, 2008
You got a better external choice?
PaulThomas - September 12, 2008
Getting to 2nd base is all external
grover - September 12, 2008
Is Baltimore still looking to trade Brian Roberts?
I’m not in love with him, but it’s a thought worth considering I think. I think they’ll want too much though.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
Baltimore is notoriously difficult to deal with though
I honestly think that Peter Angelos is like the guy in your fantasy league that makes trade proposals that are so shitty, no one even returns his emails. Angelos is “that guy”.
I have a little theory that the only reason Aubrey Huff (.950 OPS!!) made it through waivers despite his relatively small contract is that all 29 other other teams thought, “Hell, why bother. The O’s will ask for our entire farm system in return, and a deal won’t happen.”
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Bill Bavasi returned his emails
Of course, the Mariners then proceeded to get absolutely hosed in that deal, so it probably didn’t encourage anyone else to try.
PaulThomas - September 12, 2008
If Peter Angelos is the guy who makes absurd proposals in your fantasy league...
Bill Bavasi is the guy in your league that accepts them while he’s staring at his computer screen at 3 a.m., drunk and in his boxers after a frat party.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
qotm
monkeyball - September 12, 2008
Hey, that guy helped me win my league a couple years back!
grover - September 12, 2008
well, except I was rarely actually wearing my boxers
monkeyball - September 12, 2008
Could you at least turn off your webcam?
andeux - September 12, 2008
LOL
grover - September 12, 2008
300 votes so far
Patterson at 31, and Pennington at 27.
I don’t know what I expected out of this poll, but I do find the results interesting.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
those are percentages, of course
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
I went Patterson since...
…he clearly seems to have the most offensive upside of the bunch, at least based on his minor league numbers. But man I wish he would start to show something up here. With all the other below avg offensive players for their respective positions we are carrying (and likely to carry next season), it makes sense to try and go offense first at 2B. Give Patterson a legitimate chance to show something and work on his D for the first few months of next season. If he fails you can always turn to Pennington or Petit.
A trial run of a Patterson/Murphy platoon to start the season might also work out ok if there is space on the roster for both.
thinwhiteduke - September 12, 2008
Off topic, but I feel like it's appropriate for me to post this:
Barry Zito really is selling jeans now. No wonder he’s no longer an Athletic.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Best part of the article
Zito utilizes Blue Steel.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
on the other hand, it is still rooting for laundry
monkeyball - September 12, 2008
No Swooney?!
Oy vey.
He didn’t break himself last night, did he?
schmifty - September 12, 2008
WAAAA!!
Why tonight? Today sucked. I wanted some Swooney distraction.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
I know!
Ooh, he has his own commercial now… adorablenesssss.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
What the french toast?!
He does? I missed it!
Kimberly - September 12, 2008
Suuuper short one
Just one of those things where they show a closeup of the dude’s face (siiigh) with the green background and lights and all, announcing upcoming games or whatnot.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
I just watched it again
Oh god, it’s glorious. Especially in HD. Rowwwwr.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
He's preetttttyyyyy.
I’m going to Sunday’s game with seats by RF. He better be playing, I mean, he can’t hide from me forever!
Kimberly - September 12, 2008
Dah! I'm jealousss.
I’m saving my money for an OAK trip next year, I hope to make it for Photo Day :)
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Oakland is pretty.
I want to go back, but I think it’s going to be a long time until I’m able to afford any trips.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Too bad he's not giving out free breast exams
for Breast Cancer Day.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Maybe we could talk him into it
schmifty - September 12, 2008
And he doesn't look like the type to say no.
Kimberly - September 12, 2008
Hell, they don't even have to be free
I’d pay for that.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
If he says no, well....
he’s rooting for cancer.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
If he doesn't, and you (plural!) need some help...
:X
mikev - September 12, 2008
I'll be sure to see my doctor!
:)
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
You have a doctor in Oakland?
mikev - September 12, 2008
Totally.
I ONLY doctor in the Bay Area.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
AHHH!!
CSN Swooney commercial!
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
nom nom nom
Man, it feels weird to be sobering up at only 10pm.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
No Dale either... Hmm.
I’m suspicious.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Ruh roh...
Dar-an Bar-ney off playing together.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Maybe
…they’re sore from last night.
Kimberly - September 12, 2008
I just found this saved on my desktop as "forjennifer.jpg"
so I’m thinking I should post it.
Caption me.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
LOL
I stole that from flickr too.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Dude, you had to go through shit that was all mis-tagged to get to that one.
You are dedicated.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
?
They were photos of the game from KC. I was looking for those…. “Most Recent”… it was right there.
But I am a stalker. :)
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Ah, but it was one of those where someone tagged ALL the photos in their set with ALL the names of everyone
Every photo was tagged, like, “Ryan Sweeney Daric Barton Jack Hannahan Cliff Pennington Greg Smith Vida Blue Mark McGwire Stomper”
schmifty - September 12, 2008
He's asking Hannahan for a kiss.
Kimberly - September 12, 2008
Tonight's lineups have been posted to the top of the thread
We’ll ride this thread for the first stretch of the game.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Where's Greg's Phiten twister?
I blame that HR on the lack of Phiten.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
PS I stupidly just told my dad about Greg’s Twister and now he’s online trying to buy one.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
What is that?
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Those stupid "titanium" necklaces
schmifty - September 12, 2008
(they look like shoelaces)
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Oy.
Just tuned in. Bad timing.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
We can blame you.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Fine. Then I also get credit for Cust's double.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
C'mon Crozzie, don't suck.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Ohhh, you sucked. God dammit.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Crosby with a line trhough it.
MobiusKlein - September 12, 2008
I liked it better when Crosby was on the bench.
HE SUCKS.
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
WTF up with Hannahan's stupid batting music?
Another reason for me to hate him.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Great ABs by Cust and Suzuki
By Crosby, well…I do hate on him for a reason.
Nico - September 12, 2008
And Baisley's out would have scored a run too.
MobiusKlein - September 12, 2008
Oooh Kimberly they just played the Swoon commercial again
You catch it?
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Yes, I'm still swooning.
Kimberly - September 12, 2008
Rajai Davis makes playing center field look really, really easy
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
O/T what a mess that train crash in Chatsworth
many people dead.
Someone made a fatal error by running a red signal. Either that or a malfunction which is not very likely.
Trainman - September 12, 2008
Yikes
for comparison,
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
37,248 car deaths in 2007
41,059 including people hit.
MobiusKlein - September 12, 2008
Unofficial that Metrolink ran red signal
was supposed to wait for local freight to take siding in front of him. The front Locomotive pushed the Metrolink loco back into the first car full of passengers. Even though the freight was a local going from Oxnard to Van Nuys it had two BIG ROAD UNITS on it which are used for long distance.
I would imagine (only guessing) that the Metrolink Engineer would have to be bye bye because getting rammed by 450 tons of locomotives would not be very healthy. That’s not counting all the freight cars behind them
Trainman - September 12, 2008
DirecTV is out because of rain. :(
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
I HATE it when that happens.
We keep getting that lately… switched over to the HD dish and it’s even more prone to rain-fail than the regular dish. Suckage.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
What was the name of the pitcher who was on during the pregame show today? Anyone know?
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Huston Street?
Englishmajor - September 12, 2008
It was someone saying he likens himself to a young Pedro Martinez or Josh Beckett
Someone from the… 80’s?
schmifty - September 12, 2008
I love Dave Stewart.
Such a badass. Such a wussy voice.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
I was thinking his voice has deepened a little bit
Englishmajor - September 12, 2008
Totally.
Pavarotti-esque.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
Puberty.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Why, what happens during puberty?
I’m just curious.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
Well....
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Talk about a late bloomer!
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Josh Hamilton plays for Texas.
Life is not fair.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
NO joke...I want him
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
For reals? meh.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
I think she means in a purely baseball sense.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Ah. alright.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
and i tune into Hamilton's "ringing" double.
ak_A - September 12, 2008
You. Out.
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
Just kidding, hi :-)
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
hi! this new time zone thing has me off kilter for A's games
ak_A - September 12, 2008
Don't feel bad.
I tuned in just in time for Blalock’s homer.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
I guess the bright side is that it took 3+ for Smith to walk somebody
Of course, he’s getting hit pretty hard by “Challenging” guys.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
I am not impressed with his stuff
he is just another #5 starter so far. Not enough velocity to get away with missed location.
Hopefully he improves next year.
Trainman - September 12, 2008
I really think people here have a way inflated concept of the 1-5 starters
A guy with a 4.05 ERA is hardly some fringe #5 starter. If Greg Smith is your worst starter, you have a really good pitching staff.
Look around the league. Smith’s production this year would be welcomed by most teams.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
Smith (before tonight) had a 5.27 ERA since the break
That is #5 material IMO
Trainman - September 12, 2008
But you're cherry-picking the stats
since he started running out of gas – I think his arm is just basically done for the season. Smith has a lot of work to do, but he’s had a pretty solid rookie season.
Nico - September 12, 2008
Yes, I agree about the running out of gas
That is why he should improve next season.
Trainman - September 12, 2008
Just pulled four dozen chicken wings out of my smoker.
So awesome.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
This series:
Not so awesome.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
I wish Smith would pull his head out of his smoker at this point
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
That is NOT
where I pulled my wings from.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
Yow, Greg got insta-red right there.
Never noticed that happen before.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
OT: Anybody here play Civilization IV?
I recently got the game (and the Warlords and Beyond the Sword expansions), and I’m trying to figure out what the heck I’m doing. I’m very familiar with Civ II, but this is some kinda different. I don’t think I like it, and even reading stuff on civfanatics.com makes me feel way overwhelmed.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
It's way different.
But it grew on me over time. I hope your computer has a + graphics card, though.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
It doesn't
I’m using the lowest graphics settings. Actually, my least favorite part of the game is the “improved” graphics. I want more text, not less. I hate all the icons and graphical improvements. For a turn-based strategy game, graphics just muddy up the screen and get in the way. I’m glad they let you turn off all the voices and videos.
I’m in the middle of a game now, but I feel like I’m going through motions and have no idea what’s happening in any of my cities.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
Also:
Some people play way, way too much Civ. Don’t feel like you need to live up to their absurd standards or understand their lingo.
…
Of course, some could say the same about our relationship with the A’s.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
I don't really read the boards, just the FAQs
I also don’t have much interest in the multiplayer. I like video games as a way to relax and waste some time. It’s a nice solitary activity for me when I want to get away from things. Other people don’t really fit into that equation. Plus, I’m afraid I’ll end up like the Warcraft episode of South Park.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
I tried Warcraft for a month.
It is scary addicting. I had to cut myself off before I got like that.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
I prefer management-type games
I love Out of the Park for baseball simming, though I haven’t gotten a new one in a while. My favorite Final Fantasy game is Final Fantasy Tactics. I still have Sim City 2000 on my computer (but I hate The Sims). Civ fits right in with what I like, I’m just not sure I’ll get used to this new one. I think once I figure out the whole Great Person thing and the cultural boundaries I’ll be ok.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
I swear this is my last post about video games.
But I must say this: Final Fantasy Tactics fucking rocks my socks off. That is all.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
Dude. Get OOTP9.
Come join the GUBA You will love it. Best league evar.
mikev - September 12, 2008
Wow, it's already on 9?
I’m still playing 2006. It’s not great or anything, but it’s still fun.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
Holy shit, man. 2006 is absolute GARBAGE.
That awful abomination of a program almost ended my online league.
2007 ( and then “OOTP 8” after the Sega/Sports Interactive split) is much, much better.
9 is improved even more for online leagues.
mikev - September 12, 2008
I could listen to Stew talk all night. He was the Man!
jdub69 - September 12, 2008
We need another intimidating African-American starting pitcher
I realize these are not easy to find. But we effing need one.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
That, or, any intimidating pitcher at all would be a pleasure.
jdub69 - September 12, 2008
My gosh...Crosby is just the ultimate rally killer, isn't he?
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
Sure, if
rally = my hopes and dreams
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
If he were a people killer he might actually not start anymore
Well, he’d probably start for the Raiders then.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
Bobby, you aren't helping your cause.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
PUT HIM BACK ON THE BENCH!
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
And what, exactly, is Crosby's cause at this point?
Besides being allowed anywhere near a major league baseball team in the future, that is.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
6 rainouts tonight
What’s the record for most games postponed due to weather in a day?
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
Ask Noah.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
All of them.
On Nov. 1, every year! : P
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
Dear Bobby Crosby,
You suck. Please go away. Thank you.
Sincererly,
Me.
P.S. I hate you.
Nico - September 12, 2008
I applaud you for constructing that letter without any swearing
How do you manage such restraint when it comes to Crosby?
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
booze.
mikev - September 12, 2008
+ baseballgirl
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
Nobody hates baseballgirl
mikev - September 12, 2008
All the A's appear to
the way they’re playing
Nico - September 12, 2008
I would give my left testicle for a good new SS
And I would give my right testicle for a good new 3Bman. I’ve put a lot of thought into this and I am fully prepared to accept castration as a fair exchange for improvement on the left side of the infield.
Nico - September 12, 2008
Are you quoting Shakespeare?
A shortstop! A shortstop! My left nut for a shortstop!
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
I would also sacrifice my testicles, but only if I could get prostheses.
I don’t care about the “no kids” thing, but I don’t wanna be deformed. I’m vain.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
You do realize they're worn on the inside of the clothes, right?
Nico - September 12, 2008
Maybe I'm shooting for a career in porn
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
Pun intended?
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Totally
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
I literally just spit wine on the laptop when I read that
and little bit came out of my nose.
Mrs. Jeans was very confused.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Now that is dedication to your team
Trainman - September 12, 2008
Nico and other ANers:
This is my first time seeing Baisley. To my eye, he looks like a pretty unathletic dude, although I realize that’s kind of a vague phrase. Big ass, big thighs, got the unathletic walk. Just doesn’t look like much of an athlete. Agreed?
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Well, he's made some really impressive defensive plays at third
He just hasn’t hit (yet).
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
You sound like you're advertising the "perfect pushup"
Nico - September 12, 2008
Wha?
I just Google image searched that for nothing… his butt and thighs are not that big. How disappointing. Bring up Recker!
schmifty - September 12, 2008
What were your search parameters?
“Jeff Baisley booty”?
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
LOL... I gave up and went to scout.com
They have 54 pics of him, despite having about 7 of anybody else.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Try snout.com
Not many pictures of Baisley, but it’s a pretty awesome site.
Nico - September 12, 2008
"Jeff Baisley badonkadonk thunder thighs"
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
LOL
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Not only was that ball above Rajai's head...
but it was in the catcher’s glove before he decided to swing.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
In other words, by the time he decided to swing
there was undeniable evidence that it really wasn’t a terrific idea.
Nico - September 12, 2008
But at least he didn't strike out looking!
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
jeebus, top of 6th, way behind and late
for me….oh, but its friday. whoppee
ak_A - September 12, 2008
Hey, co_A
Nico - September 12, 2008
yo Nico,
test riding mountain bikes tomorrow….so many trails here from urban to single track.
ak_A - September 12, 2008
Sweet - welcome to Colorado,
home of…um…Well anyway, welcome to Colorado.
Nico - September 12, 2008
Haha, "The A's are getting shut out again; what a surprise."
You tell us, Ray.
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
Hannahan? Vertical?
Who knew???
Nico - September 12, 2008
That was yet another "not good" defensive play by Emil
Misjudged it. That it would carom off the wall, but it one-hopped the wall, and might’ve been playable with a better route to the ball.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Is Emily even trying in the OF?
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Trust me, he's VERY trying.
Nico - September 12, 2008
"Wow, what a good job by the pitcher backing up!"
MAYBE SAID PITCHER SHOULDN’T GIVE UP SIX RUNS INSTEAD AND NOT BACK UP!
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
This team is trying.
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
Sadly, they aren't trying to win.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Poor Greg
This bloody late into the season and we still haven’t come up with a decent nickname for him. I got nothin.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Greg "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!" Smith
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Actually, Nibbles isn't so terrible.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
We have "Gerg" too
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Not a fan
But I could go for Nibbles. It’s descriptive, it’s bunny-like; it’s got it all.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
I love Gerg
it reminds me of Booby Keilty.
Flash G - September 12, 2008
Okay, now you're just making me sad, Crosby.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
If I didn't know better, I'd say that last play was actually quite good
(But I know better, so it sucked and he sucks.)
Nico - September 12, 2008
Hm? Why?
schmifty - September 12, 2008
He is SHIT at the play...
then he makes plays like the last one.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
Ah. Yeah, that's him.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Play? PLATE
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
hey, he's shit at the play, too
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Christ Fosse
It’s not an A’s broadcast until Ray has obsessed about High Def for 3 minutes.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
yeah, it was really fun watching that insect
what, they couldn’t dig up that hot dog footage again?
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Or Dibs.
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
How great would it be....
….if you could eat in High-Def? I mean, everything in the world would taste like Dibs!
Englishmajor - September 12, 2008
No Ray, that was not a smart play by Emil to not go for the ball.
It was a lazy play by a guy who doesn’t want to be in Oakland.
mikev - September 12, 2008
So Vince says...."Bobby looks very lively tonight"
ak_A - September 12, 2008
That was a sweet catch.
Kimberly - September 12, 2008
Shall we compare Emil and Rajai?
Jennifer - September 12, 2008
I like Rajai, I hate Emil.
There you go.
schmifty - September 12, 2008
Why everytime I look up, the bases are loaded again?
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
You must only watch the top halves of innings
Nico - September 12, 2008
You only look up when Jeff Gray pitches?
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Wow, way to get your head in the way of a pitch
schmifty - September 12, 2008
It is quite difficult to overstate the level of suckitude
that describes this particular baseball team.
Nico - September 12, 2008
Yeah, they're probably the worst in the league...seriously
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
I'd take the A's now, and for the future, over Seattle.
thejd44 - September 12, 2008
So, I had to put the kids to bed...
did I miss any good news? Oh. Never mind.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
[tips hat to Rangers' pitching]
To answer the question posed in another thread, no, I have no plans to go to any games on this homestand. I’ve been to my share of meaningless September games and there are a few good moments, but there are just way, way too many games that turn out like the one before us now.
Soaker - September 12, 2008
It does seem as if the team is doing its best
to diminish our sense of regret at the ending of the season….
Englishmajor - September 12, 2008
I was thinking about going to the final game to see the All-Time Oakland A's team be honored.
Do yo think any of those guys will show up?
jdub69 - September 12, 2008
Who is the WORLD would watch A's postgame live?
“In-depth on the game tonight”
I don’t need to go in-depth to describe this :-)
baseballgirl - September 12, 2008
Got that cut-and-paste wrapup ready?
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
It's pretty bad when you can't score against Texas
Flashfire - September 12, 2008
Well we do have that run in 16 innings.
Nico - September 12, 2008
Awesome!
Assuming we shut the Rangers down from this point on, the game will be tied by the 120th inning!
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
Nice job by Gio, at least
Not quite as great as the stat line suggests, but certainly a step in the right direction.
Nico - September 12, 2008
It's my birthday in 30 minutes!
As I mentioned the other night, for my present I want Taylor Teagarden. I mean, I love Zook and everything, but seriously, please, Billy? Please?
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
I was actually thinking about Chris Davis
He really impresses me as a hitter, seems to play a solid enough 3B, and the Rangers don’t need him like they need pitching. I wonder if there’s an “Angel-buster” deal that could help both Oakland and Texas.
Nico - September 12, 2008
Happy Birthday!
LibrariAN - September 12, 2008
All righty then
That stank. I’m glad I decided not to use my ticket.
Englishmajor - September 12, 2008
Vote for Bill King
Every vote every day. Whatever would he have said about this team’s showing tonight?
LibrariAN - September 12, 2008
Well, there it is.
Nice job, Harrison. My hat’s off. Fucking AAA’s.
IowaA'sFan - September 12, 2008
You really just have
to tip
your hata pitcher of hard liquor.Nico - September 12, 2008
Dismal in green and gold
The best thing tonight was the crisp white uni’s. Well done, Harrison. Perhaps he’ll pitch for the Athletics some day.
LibrariAN - September 12, 2008
Jesus
I guess I picked the right night to work real late.
67MARQUEZ - September 12, 2008
Game wrap will be late tonight
that was depressing.
notsellingjeans - September 12, 2008
Just got home, saw the line
Saw that Gio posted a couple good innings… Anybody tell me how he looked tonight? Did he nibble and just get breaks or did he actually have control?
NateHST - September 12, 2008
he pretty much went after the hitters
throwing 92-93 mph fastballs.
OaklandSi - September 12, 2008
I thought Gio did a nice job, though
Laird chased a 3-1 pitch that would have been ball four and Hamilton waved at a couple breaking pitches like it was a 7-0 game, so it wasn’t quite as dominant as the stat line looked at the end. Still, a good step forward considering where he’s come from…
Nico - September 12, 2008
I agree
it seems that he set them up well enough that they were fooled on balls they shouldn’t have swung at.
OaklandSi - September 12, 2008
just got home from the game
pretty uninspiring.
the highlight was the steak and shriimp plate in the west side club…also seeing some friends. (didn’t see Poppy though…I checked before the game, but once it started my friends and i sunk deep into baseball suckitude.)
There was a big crop circle in the middle of the field. I’ve seen the football marks many times, but don’t remember seeing that big black hole.
speaking of black holes…that was exactly what I said when Bobby Crosby came up to bat with two on and nobody out…
I’ll be there again tomorrow.
OaklandSi - September 12, 2008
It was one of these
Flashfire - September 12, 2008
lovely
OaklandSi - September 13, 2008
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