Athletics Nation

My thoughts in bear88 form...

- When you’ve lost 16 of 18, your offense sucks, and now you have to go face Roy Halliday, you know you have absolutely no chance to win the next game. I’m assuming a win tomorrow.

- It was nice to see Dan Meyer pitch a 1-2-3 inning with a strikeout. But…I’m afraid I wasn’t impressed. He looked like he was aiming the ball, his changeup and slider were up (except for one very good slider), and his fastball looked “fine” but not spectacular (though it did get some swing-throughs, so maybe it had more on it than I saw). I hope he gets the start Thursday, so I can see what he looks like over several innings on (more) normal rest.

- I think Matsuzaka is one of the league’s most overrated pitchers, but…oh well.

- The A’s always seem to hit well, and play well, in Toronto. Feel free, Oakland!

I'm not sure what most people in Athletics Nation are expecting from him...

He hasn’t pitched better than “decent” in a couple years. He certainly hasn’t pitched better than “decent” in AAA.

Ok, let’s give him a chance. What this chance will finally do is show AN that Meyer no future with Oakland.

brenarlo - August 3, 2008 reply

His last 5-6 starts he's actually been outstanding,

with a 6/26 BB/K ratio and barely a 2.00 ERA in a hitter’s league. I’m not expecting him to be good, but that doesn’t stop me from hoping.

I hope that every minor league player pans out...

but the fact remains that he’s not a very good pitcher and probably never will be.

brenarlo - August 3, 2008 reply

He used to be, pre shoulder injury.

Right.

brenarlo - August 3, 2008 reply

We would all like to see him do good

I am afraid that he will never be the same since he killed his shoulder a season or two back when we first got him.

I hope he wins a few and stick around. I think he gives us more of what he gave us before and is filling in like Braden and co. Hope I am wrong but I don’t see it

Trainman - August 3, 2008 reply

Offspeed stuff wasn't impressive, but I thought the fastball looked good, and he had good command

mikeA - August 3, 2008 reply

You know, if we keep losing at this rate

and we end up with one of the worse 15 teams record-wise, then we don’t have to give up our first round pick if we sign a good free agent. Just like when the Giants signed Barry Zito and all we got was a supplemental 1st round pick. I wish someone in the media would ask Billy if the A’s are going to sign a good free agent in order to get some offense. I mean, we have the best pitching staff, Lew Wolff would like to be known as a non-cheapskate, and our payroll is one of the lowest in the majors with the trades of Blanton, Gaudin, and Harden. The payroll has to be around 25 million for next year. This will be interesting to see whether they plan to spend some money and show some commitment to the fans. From a team standpoint it would be such a waste to have a great pitching staff, but no offense, when all they need to do is sign some decent hitters with all the available payroll space opened up with the trade of all these various players.

pedoman - August 3, 2008 reply

Trouble is, who would we even want?

The only hitters who appear to suit the A’s needs are Burrell and Giambi, both of whom are short-term solutions whose ages don’t line up well with the A’s rebuilding timetable. I exclude Teixeira because he is a Boras client who will be out of the A’s range no matter what payroll looks like.

Furcal?

Yes, I know, injury prone… etc etc, fact is, he can hit and play shortstop. Those are qualities that would make him pretty useful.

Exactly

I agree with that. Probably the smartest move we could make at this point.

baseb3383 - August 3, 2008 reply

Interesting decision - he's going to be 31 in October

so you’d be getting him post-injury at ages, say, 31-35. On the plus side, he might not be prohibitively expensive coming off injury. The question is: how will his hitting – in particular his power – be, and how will his throwing be? (Was it his right shoulder?) If projected to be fully healthy, I guess it’s as good a bet as any. Anyone know what’s expected in terms of his recovery?

Adam Dunn is the only appealing FA. Maybe M. Ramirez?

I think Manny, like Burrell and Giambi,

are past the age where you do anything long term, for the team you hope will be really good (2010 on). I can see Dunn, and I have to say Dunn and Cust would be interesting, though I’m not sure there’s room for both (if Sweeney, Gonzalez, and Cunningham are all in the mix). If it’s Dunn instead of Cust, you’ve upgraded your Cust but I’m not sure that’s enough.

Bottom Line

If the A’s have a light hitting outfield and middle infield they better get some heavy hitting corner infielders. Barton is most likely not going to be a 30 hr guy. A power hitting 3b and SS are probably the most essential positions for the A’s. Unfortunately those 2 positions are lacking in this years FA market. I would be very hesitant to ink Furcal to a 5 year deal at his age aloing with his health concerns.

I agree and fear that even if he becomes

the .300 hitter he should be, Barton may not be the best fit for this team going forward. With Chavy healthy at 3B, sure. But the A’s NEED to get some power at 1B or 3B, if not both.

I wouldn’t mind a 2 year deal for Giambi (DH) along with whatever Dunn’s deal would be (LF) and have C-Gon, Cunningham, Sweeney compete for the other 2 OF spots. Could our offense not suck with Dunn and Giambi batting 3-4? Emphasis on pitching and defense other than those 2 sluggers and it might be a team with the right amount of youth and experience.

I think Carter will fill one of those two spots

He’s the one bright spot IMO in the minors. He has a significant amount of pop and will help the team in the long term.

baseb3383 - August 3, 2008 reply

Yes, but not before 2010

I’m genuinely excited about him, but not for this or next year.

Which is why Chavez should move to 2B.

That seems like "worst of all worlds" -

Stop playing a position where you’re an established gold glover, but still have to make a lot of throws.

It worked for Ellis

What?

Since when did Ellis win multiple GG’s at third, have three major surgeries, and switch to 2B? He was already a 2Bman when he and Crosby collided.

Helloooo 1st - August 3, 2008 reply

He stopped playing SS and 3B after his

shoulder labrum injury. He was able to play 2B just fine.

WaddellCanseco - August 4, 2008 reply

When did Ellis ever play SS and 3B

on a consistent basis in the majors?

Helloooo 1st - August 5, 2008 reply

What about Doolittle? He is pretty damn exciting. Not to mention our thicket of pitching prospects.

The guy Barton was projected to be before he lost his

swing would provide ample production from 1st.

Not power, though

A lineup really should have at least one 25-30 HR guy and a couple other 20 HR guys. This team has Mark Ellis second with 10 HRs.

I'd be fine with a shedload of doubles, walks, high batting

average and good-great D (which is better than advertised).

I’d be looking at the DH providing said 30 HRs, that’s what he’s there for afterall.

Jack Cust

I was really hoping he would win the Gold Glove at the DH spot this year after his snub in the 07 campaign.

It's that stupid thing where

hitting well affects the gold glove vote. Especially at DH.

The A's could get the 30-HR DH

from any of Dunn, Giambi, or Burrell. I’m big on doubles, too. If Barton is capable of .300/.400/.400 I’m jiggy with it. Time will tell.

See the other thread for my extensive breakdown

Cliff’s notes: If they aren’t going on a Cubs-like free agent orgy, I think the A’s should be looking at Russell Branyan as a short term power source at third base. He’ll need a platoon caddy but fortunately the A’s have those available in Jesus Guzman and Jeff Baisley. He hits like Jack Cust with less OBP, but he does play third and hit with power.

I think Branyan might be a butcher defensively, though

So let's put Branyan at 3B and Cust in LF

and “close left field” like they do in Sunday softball games. Heck, we already have someone who pitches underhand.

Assuming Tex is not coming to oakland.

I think that's a fair assumption

I’d put the odds at 50% he stays with LAA, 35% he goes to NYY, and 15% he goes somewhere else that isn’t Oakland.

Sigh

You shut down the 100% so I can’t have my “So you’re telling me there’s a chance” moment.

You, sir, make me sick.

I doubt the Yankees would want him for $20M/year

Orioles maybe.

The Yanks are probably going to turn

Abreu and Giambi loose – that alone pays for Teixeira.

And Pavano and Musina and Pettitte..

they have almost 80mil coming off the books.

Syphon - August 3, 2008 reply

They can certainly afford him, but he isn't good enough to

warrant a 8 year $160M deal. I can see Cashman exercising Giambi’s option before he did that.

WaddellCanseco - August 4, 2008 reply

Dunn Dunn Dunn

He’s the SuperCust

DCinWC - August 4, 2008 reply

One of the problems with counting on free agents...

...is that, lately, many teams are signing many of their better upcoming free agents to contract extensions, thus taking many of them off the market before they even get there. The pickings have been relatively slim the past couple years because of that.

UncleLeo - August 3, 2008 reply

I thought we'd only lost 15 of 17 not 16 of 18

We’re tied with Baltimore for the 11th best record in the AL. I gotta agree with brenarlo. Meyer’s a candidate for Lenny 2009, and not much more. He’s in a battle with Braden. I hope we can go with two long relievers and a 11 man staff. That would allow us to carry Patterson and Thomas as bench players in addition to Baisley, Buck and Bowen.

ohtobe21likehuston - August 3, 2008 reply

bleah.

Leopold Bloom - August 3, 2008 reply

Oh dear. We lost again.

Amazingly, there have been 23 days since July 11th,

and the A’s have won only twice.

So AN day was the curse?

We better organize another one pronto to reverse it.

MobiusKlein - August 3, 2008 reply

It was actually Nick turning 40

The A’s are 2-16 in Nick’s 5th decade. That is assuming he hasn’t committed suicide, which is a strong possibility for any A’s fan right now.

Such illogic!

I can only counter it by greater illogic.

Bring back Powell!

MobiusKlein - August 3, 2008 reply

Colin? Landon? The BART station?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybXy6VhSVHE

They took away the BART station?

Oh, the humanity!

oblique - August 3, 2008 reply

Hey, it was my birthday too!

But actually, I think the curse was Lew Wolff’s trip to the bleachers.

Englishmajor - August 4, 2008 reply

Olympics start Friday, NFL today

Billy has lead us to enjoying and expanding our sports horizons this summer.

Morada Mudshark - August 3, 2008 reply

OT: For Waddell and Oldham if you are interested

Or anyone else who likes rugby

Highlights including the Haka (Maori war dance). Kinda funny for thoses who have not seen it before but not funny if you are on the other end of it because it fires up the team.

It was 34-10 with a minute to go and by scoring 1 more time, NZ got a bonus point which is crucial in the competition. That’s the only thing I don’t like about the NFL where they take a knee at the end.

Trainman - August 3, 2008 reply

More of a League guy to be honest (have season tickets for the Warriors),

but International Union’s ok. I notice the All Blacks have changed the Haka again, what’s that all about?

I don't know

I know they had a throat cutting gesture at the end where they ran their thumbs across their throats in a slitting motion. The Australians took it as offensive and asked that it not be performed as they took it to mean they were about to be slaughtered which is exactly what it meant.

Trainman - August 3, 2008 reply

And exactly what happened

Heh

If the other team whines about it, you know it’s working. My personal favorite is when teams just turn their backs on it.

I liked the guy

who, the very second the haka is over, turns his attention to pulling up his drooping socks. Not quite the warrior attitude.

Englishmajor - August 4, 2008 reply

Doesn't it depend on what tribe the guy leading it comes from?

Or do they basically just make it up as they go these days?

Just for kicks, what do you suppose Philly would ask,

in the off-season, for Rollins? He’s having a down year (.267 with only 8 HR) and he’s fallen out of favor with management, but he’s also…Jimmy Rollins (and he’s still 27/28 in SB).

Someone who’s good at trades, if the A’s and Phillies decided to try to get something done, what do you think the deal would have to look like?

Crosby for Rollins. He is having a down year right? I guess Crosby is having a down career. Scratch that.

Cardenas + Eveland

Seller’s remorse ftw!

I would prefer Hanley. Maybe the Marlins will win the world series and ahve a fire sale.

Hanley is not, despite what the Marlins insist on putting down on their depth chart, a shortstop

Bobby Crosby,

despite what the A’s front office is telling us, is not a professional baseball player. I agree he is a horrible SS, but he can hit.

I could put up with the poor D

If it meant inserting his bat in this lineup.

Helloooo 1st - August 3, 2008 reply

There's not really any reason to "put up with it"

His bat would play fine at center, or left if he can’t hack it in center. I’m not saying he’s not a good player, I’m saying he’s not a shortstop. It doesn’t make sense to trade for Hanley as your “shortstop” and then realize that you would have a better team if you moved him to left field, and then find yourself needing a shortstop all over again.

PaulThomas - August 4, 2008 reply

But then you can just move Cust to SS

and all your problems are solved.

Big Frank has the most experience there.

Helloooo 1st - August 5, 2008 reply

For Rollins? Yow.

Um, well, the Phillies’ biggest needs are at SP, LHRP, and corner outfield. So probably something like Cahill, Carlos Hernandez (look him up, he’s on Kane County), Blevins, Ryan Sweeney, and Petit.

Not cheap.

Man did things go bad quick!

Even the radio broadcast said this feels like 1997. I think the team knew the brass didn’t care about 2008 when all the trades happened. Once the brass gave up on the season so did the players. But I think it’s more than just not caring that much, they are just showing there just not a very good team. My goal for this year was 63 wins, they will get that. Thank god for Seattle or it would be a last place finish for sure.
As for a Rollins trade are you crazy? The A’s pick up a big name in the off season. That will NEVER happen until Fremont happens.

fansince1980 - August 3, 2008 reply

Ow.

Jennifer - August 3, 2008 reply

watching the cards-phils on espn

news to me that Skip Carey passed away. I enjoyed him.

ak_A - August 3, 2008 reply

I think it was the first anyone heard

It sounded like Jon Miller was surprised. (Then again, he sounds that way after every HR: “It’s gone…a HOMERUN!!!!”)

yes miller, the constantly astonished announcer

Skip broadcast a few games this year if I recall and I know he had been sick. And I thought I heard him with our game on mlbtv. Relaxed style …. like a more appealing Greenwald.

ak_A - August 3, 2008 reply

He was really sick this offseason. He had only be announcing home games this year.

As someone who’s grown up watching the Braves, this is very sad news.

Erin6 - August 3, 2008 reply

Shane Victorino

Now there’s a Hawaiian I can get on board with!

FreeSeatUpgrade - August 3, 2008 reply

Perfect age too for a team like the A's: 28

I would love to have him along side Gonzalez and Cunningham for the next 5 years.

You really hate Sweeney don't you.

Buck’s not done either. You don’t put up the numbers he did last year without having ML talent.

I don't hate either of them

But I like Victorino more – don’t you?

Wow – Troy Glaus just BOMBED a HR off of Lidge. Watching him, and earlier Burrell’s game-tying hit, makes me piiiiiiiiiiiine for a right-handed middle of the order hitter. Gaaaak!

I don’t understand the desire for the RH bat. I want a LH bat that can hit. I want any bat that can hit in the middle of our order. The desire for a RH bat is so overrated.

A RH bat would just fill two needs. You're right though, I don't care

which side of the plate the guy stands on as long as he’s worthy of a cleanup spot.

I'll take a LH bat that can hit over a RH bat that can't

but I’ll take a RH bat that can hit over a LH bat that can hit. Balance does matter, both against LH starters and in bullpen situations.

I understand all things equal you take the RH bat, but my point was the lineup in its current construction needs hitters regardless of what side of the plate they stand on.

Ya think?

Actually I want Rajai Davis to play over Jack Cust. He is right handed after all.

Which is why we need Manny.

Nah - he's like a left-handed version

of Hank Blalock.

Isn't that Jeff Baisley?

Jeff Baisley

was so unimpressive when I saw him in Sacramento.

Exactly

Not really. Shane Victorino's a decent enough player, but he's

four years older than a rapidly improving Sweeney.

I guess that's where my "confidence in Sweeney" factor

comes into play. I don’t think Sweeney’s ceiling is higher than Victorino, but I hope to be incorrect on that one – and it’s certainly possible.

Just curious

But what makes you think that Sweeney’s ceiling is so low?

Helloooo 1st - August 3, 2008 reply

Unless he develops power, right now

he’s a Kendall .300 hitter (one hoppers to the OF, soft fly ball hits, seeing eye grounder hits) not a Kinsler .300 hitter (hard drives everywhere, ball jumps off his bat). Sweeney sprays the ball well but he doesn’t drive the ball.

I fear Sweeney is not a .300 hitter or a hitter who will develop true power, but is really about a .270 hitter with no more than moderate power, which would suggest a line of maybe .270/.340/.400, which for a corner OFer is…pretty bleah.

I have hope for him,

if only because he’s got a great body. If he was built like Juan Pierre, I’d agree with you in a heartbeat.

Juan Pierre is gritty and steals bases,

and he “plays the game right”. Juan Pierre is a top baseball player worth a multi-million dollar multi-year contract, as clearly evidenced by the fact that he got one.

A lineup of nine Juan Pierres would outperform a lineup of one Nine Pierre. It takes Juan to know Juan.

Juan Pierre is a future “runner-up MVP” to Bobby Crosby.

Sweeney has a 22.2 line drive percentage

He’s not just hitting seeing eye singles or little flares that drop into no-man’s land.

Hell, he’s got a higher LD% than A-Rod or Pujols this year.

(disclaimer: No I am not saying that Sweeney is better than ARod or Pujols)

mikev - August 4, 2008 reply

My question is, can you expect Sweeney

to produce better than a .400 slugging percentage and if not is a .750 OPS good enough for you? Personally, I don’t see him hitting .300, but I’m more concerned about whether he can slug .450 instead of .400 than I am about whether he can hit .300 instead of .270.

In other words, if he can hit .270/.350/.450 I’ll be a happy camper. I fear he’ll be closer to .270/.350/.400. (The .270 takes into account that he plays half his games in Oakland, btw.)

I wouldn't be surprised if he kept hitting at or above .300

The problem, as you say, is that it goes with few walks and few XBH. The line drives make it a “hard” .300, but the no walks no power make it an “empty” .300. I’d like to keep Sweeney as RF though since we’re likely going to have Cust, or someone like that, in LF. If Buck can come back then that changes things.

WaddellCanseco - August 4, 2008 reply

I agree

I think Sweeney in right allows you to play Cust in left. Sounds odd, but my logic is, CarGon can shade slightly toward Cust in LF and know that Sweeney is a very good defensive RF, with a great throwing arm, too.

If Sweeney settles into a .775 OPS guy making 400K with outstanding RF defense, I think we’ll be ok. Especially if it means we can get Cust’s .800 OPS into left field by doing so.

Those are somewhat less-than-ideal OPS figures from a playoff-caliber team, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that we might have the best pitching in baseball in 2-3 years. So we might be able to get away with slightly less than league average offense.

To clarify my point about the line drives,

I guess the way I would put it is that Sweeney hits line drives that are one-hoppers in front of the OFer – which is fine, but those are always going to be singles, as compared to line drives that are “200 foot line drives” rather than “120 foot line drives”.

I'm with NSJ... mostly

Except that I don’t think we need to wait 2-3 years to have the best pitching in Baseball. Our ‘pen is now and will continue to be very very good and we’ll have Duke/Gallagher/Gio/Smith/Eveland (or Meyer if he’s finally arrived) next year. I’ll put that up against anyone.

As far as Sweeney, I’d like to see some more walks to make him a great leadoff hitter, but I don’t think he needs a .450 SLG to fill that role. CarGon filling his potential in CF would balance Sweeney out, and Cust (or Dunn) in LF is every bit the corner outfielder.

nevermoor - August 4, 2008 reply

best pitching in baseball

I pessimistic that Gallagher/Smith/Eveland/Gio will hold up their part of the bargain. They’ll have their rough spots here and there in ‘09.

But in, say, ‘11, with Cahill and Anderson? I think that staff could be best in baseball for sure.