Athletics Nation

Boo.

Still funny.

louismg - July 9, 2008 reply

On Xm today

The GM for the cubs was on there, talking about the trade

buckfan6 - July 9, 2008 reply

Do the Cubs have any more prospects we can take in exchange for Blanton?

gregorymark - July 10, 2008 reply

There's a guy named Vitters, but

we wouldn’t feel it was appropriate to ask for him.

Kentucky Joe and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Inning

He Never plained on givign up Sean at all

until he throw gaudin in the mix

buckfan6 - July 9, 2008 reply

Recap

Hendry: We really want Harden. Is he available?

Beane: Yeah, but only if the package includes Gallagher.

Hendry: No way. Gallagher is untouchable.

A few weeks pass. Brewers trade for Sabathia.

Hendry: Well, maybe we could part with Gallagher after all, but he’s our backup 5th starter, so we’d need someone to take his place.

Beane: Um, ok, how about Gaudin?

Hendry: Hmm… yeah, that might work.

Beane: OK, Harden and Gaudin for Gallagher and these other three guys.

Hendry: Deal.

iglew - July 9, 2008 reply

Beane

Heh, heh, heh.

Then...

Beane: How about Blanton instead of Harden?

Hendry: Yeah, right.

Beane: OK, fine. But how about Blanton instead of Gaudin?

Hendry: Nope.

Beane: Just take Blanton along with Harden and Gaudin.

Hendry: Nope.

Beane: Please?

Hendry: Nope.

Beane: Crap.

Beane:

Take Blanton and I’ll throw in a bomb shelter!

No?

Crap!

Bean:

How about Harden, Gaudin, Blanton, and a Dave Stewart replica jersey?

Hendry: Hmmm…..(after some thought) still no.

gregorymark - July 10, 2008 reply

ironic

that gaudin gets sent to the bullpen then shunted off, while blanton is behaving like the perfect middle relief guy – for the first 3 innings he looked great tonight. The rest, the 2nd coming of barry zito – once the inning starts to go downhill, it picks up speed.

ojoe - July 9, 2008 reply

Thing is, it's a bit of a pattern this year

(though variable whether it’s innings 4, 5, 6) but really not over his career.

I was at the game

Blanton was pretty much crap the first five innings. Lots of hard hit balls all over the place, and way too many balls out of the strike zone for a free-swinging team like the Mariners. I remember turning to my friends just after whoever it was was hit by the pitch, saying “Blanton sucks tonight. It’s gonna bite him on the ass.” The funny thing is, he almost got out of it. There was a line shot to Murphy, who snagged it but couldn’t hold on. Had he held it, he could’ve doubled off the runner on second, end of inning. But just because Blanton got outs in those first four innings doesn’t mean he wasn’t walking on the edge. It was the Bad Blanton the whole time (except the sixth inning when it was too late).

The hitting, outside of when they all figured out Rowland-Smith at once, was also crap. And Jack Cust - don’t get me started on the guy. He’s not getting as many walks as before because word must be getting around that he can’t hit, so you might as well throw strikes. Yeah, there’s that occasional home run, but that’s a small price to pay for a nearly perfect out machine. Dude’s OBP has been falling precipitously.

The good news: Great weather, great attendance. Hannahan may not have much talent, but that tackle was magnificent, and I’m loving CarGon in the outfield. Also, for a change, the stands were really filled with A’s fans. Not too many Mariners folks out there.

Agreed on Cust

He’s awful. The worst part about him getting that home run is now when he goes 6 games with 1 hit and 13 strikeouts, we’ll have to hear “remember that homer he hit against the Mariners? It was huge!” Who cares? Clearly the league has him figured out and he either refuses to or can not make adjustments. If he was batting 6th or 7th all season, I’d be ok, but he’s just an embarrassment at the 3/4 spot.

sprtsnwyn - July 10, 2008 reply

It never ceases to amaze me

how people can repeat the exact same thing they were saying about a player 3 months previously, after the intervening three months have shown everything they’re saying to be completely and utterly meritless.

It’s like the Jack Cust blood libel.

So what are you saying?

That Jack Cust isn’t a near-automatic out machine pitchers are being less careful around?

That comment is either

“reckless negligence” or “libel” but I’m not sure which.

"a near-automatic out machine"

That’s delusional. His OBP is .361. Which leads the team (except for scrubs, lucky pitchers, and the injured Frank Thomas).

Today it's .361

Not very long ago it was .415.

They’ve figured him out, and that’s, as I said, a precipitous decline. For the past month, he’s been a near-automatic out machine. The thing about walks is that even during slumps, guys who walk a lot can maintain the same levels. His have dropped.

He'll get hot again and the numbers

will all go up. But when he goes cold again he’ll kill the A’s in the #3 hole again, and so on…

Overall, he is batting .221. Not .251, not .240. It’s a concern.

name me the player who doesn't slump

Not the point

Some hitters slump with more disparate highs and lows, some slump in longer or shorter stretches. If Cust’s slumps were shorter or less frequent they could be just as deep. Or if they weren’t as deep they could be longer or more frequent. In the balance, I believe his true ability is around .240/.360/.450, which is good. I also don’t think he’s worthy of the #3 spot in a batting order.

batting order's almost entirely irrelevant

Aside from wanting your best hitters to get to the plate more often than your worst hitters, there’s very little impact that batting order has on runs scored.

I don’t disagree with anything else you said—but I was responding to richwol1, who is convinced, apparently, that Cust doesn’t belong in the lineup at all.

Not quite what I'm saying

At this point, Cust still is the best home run threat on the team, so he’s got to be out there every day. The A’s don’t have an alternative. But that doesn’t change anything I’ve said about how frustrating it is watching the guy, or how bad he actually is at the moment. It’s a no-win situation. You can’t remove him from the line-up, and you can’t leave him in. But defending him by quoting an OBP based mostly on some quality stats in April and/or May when you’re entering the middle of July just doesn’t cut it.

you have a serious misunderstanding of what constitutes sample size and statistical significance

No I Don't

You seem to have misunderstood the difference between looking at a stat sheet and actually watching how pitchers and hitters adjust to one another. This is Cust’s second year. His track record remains minimal and he hasn’t proved conclusively he belongs in a big league uniform for any extended period of time.

If pitchers can get away with throwing strikes at the guy, his value really becomes minimal.

"You seem to have misunderstood

the difference between looking at a stat sheet and actually watching how…” is the start of so many sentences I often think but seldom post.

But then you realize

that AN has plenty of ignorant content-free drivel as it is?

andeux - July 10, 2008 reply

Or that...

It will just start another war, so why bother?

I'll see you in 2 months

I'd love

to be proven wrong. Today’s a start, but only a start.

+1

Cust's stats

BA .221
SO’s 110 43 looking (leads the Majors
#3 hitter Pathetic

bamaA'sfan - July 10, 2008 reply

"#3 hitter Pathetic"?

I don’t remember seeing that stat. Where’d you find it?

Part of the problem is the A's dont have a #4 hitter to protect Cust

A'sfaninNC - July 10, 2008 reply

Actually, no

This is not part of the problem. Well, it’s part of the A’s problem that their lineup sucks. But it’s not part of Cust’s problem. Protection is a complete and utter myth.

{applies for government funding for "strikeout abstinence" program}

I have to disagree here

See Pujols, Albert in the 2006 playoffs. His IBB rate went way up. The Cardinals essentially had no #4 hitter.

VORP is too nerdy - July 10, 2008 reply

Small sample size, I know

But even Willie Randolph readily admitted that he wasn’t going to pitch to Pujols in the NLCS.

VORP is too nerdy - July 10, 2008 reply

Ask a player if protection is a myth

and get back to me.

Why?

andeux - July 10, 2008 reply

Eddie Murray

Eddie Murray, while still an active player, dismissed the notion of protection in the lineup.

OK, if you ask them ...

Are NASCAR and professional wrestling entertaining?
Is smokeless tobacco a refreshing, invigorating, and healthful indulgence?
Is a signing bonus most appropriately spent on several bitchin’ sets of wheels?

Also:

Did God help you hit your last home run?
Is Kenny Chesney a talented musician?
Is Jason Varitek an all-star?

74mk - July 10, 2008 reply

I wasn't convinced until the last example

I guess we could ask Jason Varitek.

The thing about Cust is that

he is about two parts “hot hot hot” to three parts “cold cold cold” and while in the balance he is good, about 60% of the time he is truly a liability in the lineup. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be in a major league lineup, but it DOES mean he should be more like a #6 hitter than a middle-of-the-order guy who will come up time and time again in spots where 0/4 with 3 Ks will kill your best rallies.

Now it’s not Cust’s fault that his fellow hitters are so poor overall that there’s no one else to bat in the middle of the lineup, but while that fact doesn’t make him a worse hitter it also doesn’t make him a better hitter.

Agreed

In a normal lineup he either bats higher in the order with protection (which Thomas can help provide) or in the bottom half, not third with nobody around him.

He’s actually got a slightly better strikeout ratio per plate appearance this year so far (once every 3.14 to 3.09 last year, I think). The biggest problem is his walk ratio is slipping big time. Last year it was one every 4.83 plate appearances. This year it’s one every 5.67.

So the strikeouts are roughly the same but the walks are coming at a slower pace and his slugging percentage is also taking a big dip. Even in spite of that, he still has a good OPS+ (117) but that’s considerably lower than last year’s (147).

For point of reference, Eric Chavez’s career OPS+ is 117.

By all means, let's kick a man when he's down

He’s in a slump, folks. Every player goes through them. When he gets into his next hot streak, the walk rate and OBP will go back up.

Jack Cust has his flaws but he also has some very positive and valulable attributes. The A’s lose a game to the worst team in the league (again) and it triggers a “let’s pile on Jack Cust Day.” We’ll even go so far as to argue that he shouldn’t be batting third even though he has the best on-base skills and most power on the team. Brilliant.

That’s not addressed to you, Flashfire. Poor placement on my part.

not only that, but LPOJCD happens ...

... the day after he gave the team the lead with a monstrous HR to dead center. (And, FWIW, made several vastly-improved-albeit-still-clumsy plays in LF.)

He could excell in his perfect role, off the bench.

After the trade to reduce payroll with low ceiling prospects, why not just save Wolfee the money a release him outright? Cust can’t be in our 2011 plans and frankly 25% average and 75% below average isn’t helping our prospects get any better IMHO.

My jaw is on the floor right now

This is so utterly ridiculous, I don’t even know where to begin.

we need a new kind of flag for comments like that

Oh come on - PT can't help

putting every thought in hyperbole.

nicely turned

I was, by way of clarification (I know you got it, Nico), referring to norcalfan’s.

I forgot I can't be sarcastic on AN anymore

what with the Paul Thomas brigade on the prowl. I need to start working on my condescending comments to be in the “in crowd”, or even maybe pasting stats from ESPN and habitually using the thesaurus to truly show my haughtiness to those common “fans” on AN. I have been judged. Flag me….just don’t flog me.

You seriously underestimate me

if you think I consult a thesaurus before posting.

While we’re on the subject of looking things up, however, I would suggest you check up on the meaning of the word “sarcasm.” It does not mean “exaggerating an opinion you actually hold.”

I never read your comments as aloof.

A little surprised by yours, PT never.

uh oh.

i feel a storm brewing.

...nope just the coffee

Yes I am amazing

I know. Sometimes I amaze myself, but usually I just expect it.

sprtsnwyn - July 10, 2008 reply

clearly.

Poets 1, Statheads 0

uh, you can put this poet's vote in the "stathead" column

so, were you getting a stiff drink in the top of the 2nd?

agreed on Blanton

He looked like dogmeat last night. It seemed like he just wasn’t focusing, or paying attention. I think he’s got some issues throwing to Suzuki.

Actually that $126 million stiff across the bay has 12 losses too

Blanton sucks but at least the A’s aren’t paying him $126 million :)

Hopefully he’ll be traded.

Im wondering how many loses the A's are goign to let him go

buckfan6 - July 9, 2008 reply

I'm pretty sure Billy

is not done, but he’ s not trading Joe.

Yup - get used to Blanton cause he's a keeper

For better or worse.

horrible idea

he makes too much money and simply not very good.

I say trade Blanton and lower payroll even further

What's a horrible idea?

Not trading him because no one especially wants him? Teams are looking for “impact pitchers” this time of year, not innings eaters. No one’s interested in Blanton – other than opposing hitters.

untradeable

that makes sense if that’s what you mean.

Sadly, 'tis

I’m sure Beane has been shopping Blanton since October, but all anyone is going to say when you bring up Blanton is, “Say, tell me about Haren…Tell me about Harden…”

That would be ridic.

And remember, Joe is better

on the tail end.

I don't mean because Blanton's great

I mean because he is pitching himself out of the trade discussions. Teams already undervalued Blanton – right now they don’t value him and they’re right.

Yes, but just let the heat

and smoke get to him. He’ll lose a few, he has no choice. Then we’ll see.

Update

One more data point for the chart.

# p    ERA     date

 75 -  1.29 - Jun 18
 78 -  1.29 - Jun 29
 94 -  3.00 - Mar 25
 95 -  2.58 - May 31
 99 -  2.70 - Apr 01
 99 -  2.58 - Apr 27
100 -  4.50 - May 19
101 -  4.70 - Apr 16
101 -  3.18 - May 02
101 -  2.58 - May 07
101 -  6.00 - May 14
105 -  5.40 - Jun 06
107 -  6.14 - Apr 06
107 -  9.00 - May 25
109 -  2.58 - Apr 22
111 -  4.50 - Apr 11
118 - 10.29 - Jun 12
119 - 15.75 - Jun 24
119 -  9.00 - Jul 04

With today’s result the pattern continues to hold. See complete discussion here.

Joe threw only 92 pitches today, but I’m not sure it’s relevant over the All-Star Break.

iglew - July 9, 2008 reply

Completing the point I made in the game thread...

The last 4 times Blanton has thrown >111 pitches, and what happened in his subsequent start (the point being that the subsequent start has sucked every time):

7/3/07: 122 pitches
7/8/07: 6 IP, 12 H, 6 R (92 pitches)
—-—
6/12/08: 118 pitches
6/18/08: 3 IP, 7 H, 3 BB, 8 R (75 pitches)
-—-
6/24/08: 119 pitches
6/29/08: 4+ IP, 8 H, 7 R (78 pitches)
-——
7/4/08: 119 pitches
7/9/08: 6 IP, 9 H, 6 R (92 pitches)

Soaker - July 9, 2008 reply

That is 27 runs in 4 starts

19 innings and 27 runs is an ERA of 12.79

Nothing that a tub fill of sulphuric acid wouldn’t fix

I've heard Geren say

“Curt and I look at the cumulative number of pitches the guy has thrown in his last 3 starts.” Coming into tonight, that number was 316 for Blanton, an average of 105.33. But, in 2 of those 3 starts, he went to 119.

Looks to me from iglew’s work and my own observation that the cumulative 3-start pitch count is the wrong number to look at. When he gets into the 100-105 range, yank him right now.

Soaker - July 9, 2008 reply

Realistically, though, Blanton has

“temporarily imploded” in different innings over the course of the season, then sometimes not at all, in such a random pattern – but in a way that unfortunately doesn’t really allow Geren to act preemptively, like if he always “hit a wall” and didn’t rebound or he always imploded after the 90th pitch, etc. – that there isn’t really much the A’s can about it other than start him or don’t start him. And given his track record and the youth around him in the rotation, it’s pretty obvious why the A’s keep running him out there hoping he hits his stride.

And hopefully he will

in the second half.

He probably will

After his last start and the first 4 innings tonight, I was hoping it had finally happened. Oh well.

If you were there...

You would have seen it hadn’t happened. We were gripping our seats with our knuckles through those first four innings. He didn’t look good at all. Maybe television told a different tale, but that’s what we saw.

If he can't throw more than 100 pitches is he really an "innings eater"?

He throws 100 pitches,

but it only gets him 3 IP so…He’s a “pitches eater”! I know, that’s Zito, but still…

Even if he doesn't hit his stride...

Who else are you going to trot out there? Braden?

I think the recent trade is a white flag on the season…. All Curt and Bob may be hoping is that this season is a learning experience for Big Joe and/or that he comes around enough for someone to want him in the offseason.

Hopefully that team is the A’s. :-)

jonahsilas - July 9, 2008 reply

Gio?

meh

Gio’s not ready. He was disappointing early, and while he’s gotten “better” so far, he still isn’t what you’d call “Major League Ready” – not that means a whole lot to the A’s this year.

Gio hasn’t gone past the 5th inning in 4 of his last 10 starts, and some of those have been really ugly. And while he’s had two stellar starts against Fresno (yes, SF actually has a farm system kind of!), he’s also had some really dismal ones – all adding up to an ERA not much better than Blanton’s at a much lower level.

You’d be throwing him into the fire if you were to call him up now.
High risk/low reward… I’d hold back.

shlecko - July 10, 2008 reply

We really need a complete list from 2006 and 2007.

I intend to run the numbers, but not sure when I’ll find the time. Probably not till this weekend.

One season is an interesting pattern, but it’s far from conclusive.

In the meantime, yeah,

I’m on board with yank him when he reaches 100-105

and that would have helped today ... how?

If the policy had been followed last week

it may have helped today. That’s the theory anyway.

Well would an extra days rest be better for him comming off 105+ pitch strarts?

A'sfaninNC - July 10, 2008 reply

The usual random riffs

1. God, baseball needs instant replay. Would have taken 30 seconds to correct what was obviously just a flat blown call. Fortunately for my blood pressure, it didn’t end up deciding the game.

2. Something is wrong with Andrew Brown. Possible that he has a sore wrist? He seemed to shake it at one point like he couldn’t grip the ball. In any event, he couldn’t find the zone and his velocity was off by 3-5 MPH. That’s el problemo. That inning could have gotten out of hand really easily.

3. Notice where Jose Lopez was playing Carlos Gonzalez on the last ball in the 4th inning? His batting average is going to start dropping like a rock if he doesn’t start spreading his batted balls around a little.

Regarding Gonzalez -

Against LHP, he seems to start his swing before the pitch breaks (if it’s going to). He needs to stay back longer because he’s waving at every breaking pitch that looks like a strike after 30 feet.

Regarding instant replay, that call at home infuriated me. But I’m still against instant replay and always will be. I am, however, fully in favor of starting a pool to get Mark Wegner a guide dog. Who could make the calls and it would be an upgrade.

If you're against instant replay,

you deserve every call like that that gets made against you.

I’m sorry, I find that position genuinely incomprehensible.

I've actually never had a call go against me

Sometimes the team I root for, though. I’m sorry that you can’t understand a position that doesn’t match your own view.

There are many positions I don't share that I understand

For instance, the view that the Harden trade was a good deal.

That just isn’t one of them…

I don't think it's so hard to understand

why a fan would be against instant replay – especially since the pros and cons have been outlined in great detail time and time again over the years on blogs everywhere. Look up any discussion on any forum and you’ll find both sides’ views well represented.

I think it’s harder to understand why a fan/team would “deserve every bad call” just because philosophically it did not support the use of instant replay.

Conceptually?

Because it’s reckless negligence. You have a problem. You know it’s a problem. The solution costs relatively little. Yet you choose not to fix it. It’s like a chemical corporation dumping mercury into a bay. Sooner or later, someone’s going to turn up sick—and it’s hardly a coincidence.

If you support the system, if you want to reap whatever benefits are accruing from not doing anything (I’m not really even sure what those benefits are in the case of baseball, apart from like 5 minutes of game time every other game) then I believe it’s entirely just that you pay the price for it. Doesn’t happen very often in real life, but that’s true of all moral hypotheticals.

And FWIW, this means I also think it’s just for fans of replay to suffer most of whatever consequences replay brings, too. I just happen to think those consequences are trivial in comparison.

Because I don't believe in the solution -

I fully support blown calls occurring as part of the human element of the game. That doesn’t make me any less mad when it happens to my team.

When you're mad, do you also acknowledge that you don't want to solve

the problem?

I think the part where Nico would disagree is

“The solution costs relatively little.” Clearly he feels there is some sort of intangible cost to adopting instant replay which makes it not worth it, even at the cost of some bad calls. To him, it does not cost relatively little.

I don’t know what that cost is. For the sake of argument, say he thinks there’s some mystical psychic value to keeping with the non-instant-replay traditions of baseball. You and I don’t have to understand it or agree with it to recognize that it does matter to Nico.

I offer all this in a genuine effort to broaden the range of positions you don’t share that you understand (which I, for my own reasons, believe to be a worthwhile cause).

I don't understand

What would be so impossible about setting up a situation similar to football or basketball where an opposing team can call for a replay on certain plays? (This would be as opposed to fair/foul calls on homers, which would be replayed every time). No penalty for replay calling, but only say, two replays would be allowed per team per game, so they would have to be used wisely.

Not basketball

SHOULD be basketball too.

I don't like it in football,

don’t support it in any sport. Mistakes by the humans on the field to perform are an integral part of the game, IMO. Get better umps, train them better, hold them more accountable, whatever, sure. I’m just not all about “getting it right” as the most important thing.

You can train people all you want.

They’re still going to miss close calls that happen in a split second sometimes.

Yup. Darn humans!

I'm for technology on both B/S calls and close plays.

On close plays, it’s simply to get it right. It can be done in a minute with one person in the booth with a replay capability—or hell, 1000 miles away doing all the games. Likelihood of overlapping incidents approaches zero. Maybe each side only gets to request one-or-two/game.

On B/S calls, there’s accuracy and, well, umpire BS. And no delay at all.

I just do not see what having unnecessary inaccuracy adds to the game, especially given the routine mistakes revealed by the likes of pitchf/x, and too-numerous incidents of umpire arrogance and misconduct evident over the most recent few seasons. They’ve lost me.

My thought is this

If MLB is using their pitch tracking to evaluate ball/strike calls, they can use replay if they want as well.

Of course they can,

and in case it’s not clear my objections have nothing to do with the time it would take to use replay. I just feel that umpire error/variation is a fundamental part of the “game played by humans” as are fielder error and bad pitch selection.

It’s kind of like the question of whether all ballparks should be identical or whether Fenway Park is cool for its uniqueness. I like the oddities but still am incensed when Duchscherer makes a terrific pitch that someone reaches for and lofts 300 feet for a “cheap HR”.

That doesn’t mean I’d vote to make every ballpark the same, and I don’t want every umpire to be the same – I want the best humans, trained and evaluated as well as possible, making the best calls they can. Different windups, different tendencies, different personalities – all part of what makes the game great IMO.

"I want the best humans..."

Now you decide to go all homo sapiens on us?

And this is where I find it incomprehensible

It’s like saying you would rather have humans doing calculations for the Mars Lander using a slide rule than a computer doing it.

If someone in the space program told me they preferred that, I’d think they were off their head.

I don’t see what this “human element” is supposed to add, other than occasionally making a large number of people extremely angry for no reason. Maybe you think that’s a good thing, but I sure can’t see why.

The image of a Mars landing

calculated furiously with a slide rule while astronauts are screaming, “We really need an answer, like, NOW!!!” is funny enough that I’d be in favor.

slide rule's robotic cheatin'

Calculations should all be done by hand, using long division.

Using counting stones.

if you give a million monkeys a million ump uniforms

one will be QuesTec.

(the rest will be Mark Wegner)

No Angel Hernandez's -

It’s worth it!!!

Gonzalez

looked like donkey doo tonight. Like a high school student trying to hit Pedro Martinez in his prime. Just waving at anything – including balls in the dirt. Seemed like the M’s pitchers knew it, too, pitching all around the strike zone, and not in it at all.

My first game seeing him live, and he looked lost…

jonahsilas - July 9, 2008 reply

Brown has been behind every hitter in about the last 4 appearances

He may well have a sore wrist and cannot grip it properly (It being the ball) LOL

I was at the game, and haven't seen any replays of Suzuki's play at the plate ...

... but it sure as heck looked to me at the time like Zooks never actually tagged the runner. He caught the ball, covered it up as he braced for the impact, and turned his hands away from the runner, so that he was almost all the way turned ‘round at the moment of impact—the runner crashed into Zook’s side/back.

Kurt really needs to work on his mechanics on plays at the plate. The Gonzalez throw the other night was the only one where he’s done everything right—and that was only because the throw gave him no option but to.

You were probably watching from the same angle as the ump.

The first time I saw it on TV, I thought there was no tag. But then they showed it from another angle and it was very clear.

I thought it was a brilliant play

And he accomplished everything he set out to accomplish, preventing Ibanez from ever touching the plate and making the tag before he could get there. And a 10.0 for innovation as I’ve never seen a back-block like that before.

I watched it back in slo mo

and I think it was a horrible play. He had the ball as Ibanez was starting his slide and was facing him. All he had to do was drop the tag on him. Instead he tried (succesfully) to block the plate and then tag him. It was pretty clear to me watching it again that all he had to do was drop the tag originally and it would have been a clear out. Innovative and effective block? Yea, but I definitely thought a conventional tag would have been an easy out and an easy call for the ump. It was one of the weirdest plays I have seen for sure.

OaktownPower - July 10, 2008 reply

From the bleachers

It definitely looked like a non-tag, probably due to Suzuki’s back blocking, spinning move. I watched the news when I got home and saw some slo-mo on it – definitely kept the runner off the plate, and applied the tag to his right. So a bad call, and a great play in that regard… Really totally unique in my many years of baseball fandom.

But, I have to agree with OaktownPower that the mechanics have got to get better. You will never get the ump’s benefit of the doubt when you look like a whirling dervish blocking the plate.

I have to say that I didn't see a replay

from early on enough to say whether he could have executed the catch, block, tag in a conventional manner but I thought that for what he tried to do he did it amazingly well. An umpire should not call a runner safe unless he sees the runner’s foot touch the plate – and it’s impossible that either Wegner or his bloody guide dog could have seen that because it didn’t happen.

No doubt

it was an extremely athletic, and effective, play. And pretty awesome, especially with the the jumping around afterwards.

So definitely no disrespect to Suzuki for the play, I thought he played a great game both behind and at the plate. The bad call is on the ump…

But until he gains league-wide respect he probably won’t get those calls, IMHO. A Jason Kendall (sorry!) gets that call, but maybe not a 2nd year guy…

thanks for the clarification

Still not having seen any replays, I agree with OaktownPower—bad decision, bad execution, lucky/good/innovative break on actually tagging him.

RE: point #1

I’m assuming that was Suzuki’s tag on Ibanez.

About that play, How exactly did Suzuki get turned around? The throw wasn’t offline so that shouldn’t have been the cause. I didn’t get to see a replay so I couldn’t tell how he set up at the plate. It was a very odd play, starting with Barton’s failure to sprint straight at Ibanez once he spotted him in no-man’s-land.

yeah, that was a very poor decision by Barton

He gets a little “throwy” at first sometimes.

I was saying to someone that even an absolute GASCAN with a 5 ERA

can get lucky and pitch 6,7,8 innings or even a shutout in a season. Blanton has given up run(s) in every start. And I bet even in his good starts, he throws an absolute meatball at least once.

I know that all pitchers get away with mistakes in most every start, hitters miss pitches to hit (Our hitters do that often) but Blanton basically throws batting practice and implodes in total meltdown mode.

This team has overcome adversity with all the injuries and it is really unacceptable when you have a guy that comes out and has a big fat “L” on his back before the game even starts. I know his teammates must feel bad for him but deep down they have to wonder why the fuck he continues to take wins away from the team.

Rebuilding or not, It is important to win every game. I bet if he had pitched the way we expected him to, this team may well have been adding instead of subtracting. Providing of course it didn’t cost us any prospects.

We could have added a few rental pieces and along with important players coming off the DL, we could well be contending (surprising and unexpectedly) while having a stocked farm system for future years.

How on earth do you add without it costing you any prospects?

OK, I can think of one way—when a team randomly releases their Hall of Fame DH and you can sign him as a free agent for the league minimum.

I’m not predicting that to happen again this season.

We're going to add Thomas at the trading deadline

I guess that’s something. Funny how many are lukewarm on Beltre because boy would he help us right now.

Bonds too

Although I hate that guy.

That is a big boost

I sure get jealous watching Texas hit. Of course they have a launching pad and no pitching but what I would give to have a few of them on our team.

I like the idea of Beltre. They can always trade him in the offseason if Chavez is healthy

for next year.

Ok, cool

Hope you don’t mind facing Trevor Cahill 4 times a season for the next seven years, though.

They can trade him for Trevor Cahill

The payroll is down so

would there not be a few 7 or 8 million to throw in for a half season rental on another team’s soon to be free agent.

I agree that you cannot give away good prospects when he has worked so hard to build up the farm. That is why I suggested spending some of that money they say they have if needed.

Kind of a moot point when Blanton implodes of the mound as often as he does. He is on the radio talking about his poor performance now saying his curve to Lopez was not a good pitch. NO shit Sherlock. At least hje admits he sucked tonight.

Mr. Meltdown

melts down our chances again!

I wish we had gotten something for him from the Dodgers last year when we had a chance.

I always feel bad when Blanton takes the hill—let him pitch four innings and pull him out!

Let him pitch 8 innings - just not the bad one!

We don’t really know how close a Blanton-Dodgers deal was.

You want the A's to pull off a Paul Pierce faux injury?

This is nothing new

for Blanton.

Sucking this badly this often for this long is

Yeah, I know

I keep hoping.

You, me, Beane, Forst, Geren, Young and a bunch o' others

I'm in good company then.

Actually, Geren and Young are kind of boring

But the rest of us are good company.

I try not to like

Geren and Young, but I can’t.

LOL Buan is asking David Forst about Blanton

He cannot put a finger on it. That bad inning in a number of his losses.

“I know Joe is thinking about it those 4 days between starts, so hopefully he will be ready to go after the break”

I guess there is not a lot else David can say on air can he?

What's he supposed to say?

“I can put a finger on it – look, it’s this one.”

He just said (David Forst)

regarding this year that the first thing is to get the players healthy or knowing at least when they are coming back and if something comes up that helps the offense then they will certainly be opportunistic.

Of course he cannot say much but reading the tea leaves, It sounds like they certainly have not given up on season just yet

Surprising - I expected him to say,

“We’re still in this thing statistically, but privately we’re sure the team will tank soon. If not, we certainly intend to dismantle the team until the players finally get it that we suck.”

Already a given

but I still love them!

If I put a finger to it

it would still point squarely to Blanton

If I could put a finger to it

I’d point it squarely at Beane. He’s responsible for the talent. The guy is OCD and ADD, and we could do worse.

Oh Please!

How many of us have hope that we can get to the prom this year, raise your hand.

I'm a little old,

and the girls I know not nearly drunk enough.

Almost

Fine, they're almost girls -

Operations pending.

An animal

~~that~~ with heels! Strapping indeed.

I liked the comment from Street last night when he said

We have overachieved all season so far and we are going to continue to do so.

They sure don’t have any quit in them and that is great.

Hurry back Frank etc.

Yes!

And I think they’ve done well under pressure. Its been a really good testing ground.

I do

then again, I thought the A’s would win the West before the season started.

5 games back is not that much.

what are they in the wild card? 4 games out?

not too much.

A’s-Marlins world series would be awesome.

Showdown of the Underdogs?

Not going to happen my friend.

I know :(

However Tampa Bay has a chance.

Go Rays!

Thats an

Apocalypto reference, but I’ll give it top you.

That would be too

so don’t even try

I feel better

I just went to MLB.com and replayed the Josh Hamilton home run. Then I went and watched it on my DVR and I watched K-Rod walk off the mound. Didn’t see any sky pointing either. I wonder why.

But thanks again Blanton for being a total gascan and ruining what would have been a great evening.

I predict the score tomorrow will be 10-3 A’s

Susan Slusser

has interesting comments in her recap

Speculation among other clubs about the A’s dealing Murton and Patterson and also said the A’s did not think it appropriate to ask for Vitters in the Harden trade even though they need a 3rd baseman.

Also said they were worried about Harden when he pitched on 4 days rest as he was 4-1 on 5 days rest with a 1.63 ERA

I will be pilloried for this, but ...

Street, Blanton, and Murton to the Red Sox for Manny

I'm on board with that.

Would the Sox want to?

Not "appropriate"?

What the hell is that about? Why not “we want a PTBNL on November first from among the following players: Vitters.”?

I think it's a fair/painful deal for both sides

The Sox get a second-tier (i.e., non-elite—not “mediocre”) closer/setup man to bolster their pen for the fight with the Rays and the playoffs, they get a cheap RH bat to replace Manny immediately and for the next couple years, and … they “get” a “reliable, above-average innings-eater” to shore up the back end of their rotation.

The A’s ditch Blanton’s lousy starts, ditch the salaries of (and increases due to) Blanton and Street (thereby clearing more room to be able to cover Manny’s $20M options for ‘09 and ‘10), and get one of the greatest RH hitters of all time.

It’d be a big hit on the A’s pen, though—especially now, with the various injuries and with Gaudin having been shipped out. Beane might be able to do that deal and squeeze a low-risk/low-ceiling AA/AAA starter/reliever prospect out of the Sox, which would make it more palatable.

That would be a terrible trade

Given their respective cost/arbitration/contract/age situations, I wouldn’t trade Street for Ramirez straight up.

fair 'nuff

You and I have very different perspectives on how Manny and Huston project health/production-wise over the next 2-4 years.

Personally, given all the cost savings Beane’s implemented for ‘08-09, I think Manny’s salary is immaterial (if he projects in line with my expectations; if he projects in line with what I presume yours to be, then, yes, obviously, tying up $20M for a guy falling off a cliff would be folly).

I don't think he's falling over a cliff

I think he’s fallen to a lower level of performance, and will decline gradually from there.

In his prime, which was a long, long time, Manny was consistently at or near a 1.000 OPS. I think he’s now more likely to be in the .850-.900 range at Fenway, which would be lowered substantially in Oakland. Would he be the best hitter on the team? Yes, this year. Probably next year. Probably not in 2010. Probably not worth the money. Definitely not worth the money and all those chips.

The “Harden trade as win-now move” theory is a radical one, but since I don’t think it actually does anything to help the team win now, I’m not buying it.

The other issue here is that Manny has a no-trade clause. Any proposal has to assume that he actually wants to go to a certain team, and I find the notion of him wanting to play for Oakland specifically a dubious one. That says nothing about whether the team should try to get him, but it makes it a lot less likely that they will.

There is no chance in hell of this trade ever being proposed

let alone being agreed to…

kbtoyz - July 10, 2008 reply

I don't really disagree with any of those points

this also goes somewhat to the "now" vs "future" aspect of the Harden trade

If Beane did indeed improve the team in the short term with the Harden deal (and I think you and I are in agreement that he didn’t really improve it much in the long term), then acquiring Manny for now-’2010 would fit in with the overall strategy. (Of course, there is the hit on the pen to take into account.)

I remember Gallagher started against the White Sox

a few weeks ago on Fox and Lou went to the mound and cussed the shit out of Gallagher and I see a little piece about that with Gallagher’s comments about it

This is his comment from the SF Chronicle

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/09/SPIF11ME4C.DTL

I KNEW I had seen him before

That was the game.

Still an absurdly small sample, but at least I can say I’ve seen the guy pitch once…

With Blanton's History

I was amazed how long it took the bullpen to get active. I think Geren and Young were the only 2 people in the ballpark surprised at how that inning went.

cvdoug - July 10, 2008 reply

I went to get a beer

and left my scorebook with my fiancee. “Blanton has been blowing it in these innings a lot of the season, so look out.” I told her.

I came back to 4 runs scored. Thank God I scored a couple of frothy Pyramid brews to ease the pain.

No, nobody in the know was that surprised.

The important question:

Did she make any scoring mistakes or have you taught her well?

In fact, she didn't give back the book

until the 8th, because she enjoys scoring so much. She even correctly scored the entire debacle of a the 5th, including that weird bouncing single down the 1st base line. I think I strayed farther than the official scorers than she did last night. (I tend to be a bit “generous” with errors…)

Yes, I do love that girl…. even though she grew up going to Fenway with her Dad. At least the BoSox were terrible back then. ;-)

Sounds like a keeper to me

I’ve got a good friend who loves to score. She even likes using the scoresheets I made. ;-)

Sounds like a good friend

to me. Another keeper!

Yeah, and I think I'll share the scoresheets with the rest of you later.

I’m getting ready to go to the game now.

I took a few different things from others I’d seen and worked up a legal-size horizontal sheet that has lots of room for information.

She even likes to keep track of additional pitches (foul balls) and throws to first.

Please record all the A's runs as they cross the plate

If I had known you were going, I would have provided you with the sniper rifle that you will need to shoot Blanton between the eyes with as he props his 450lb body up on the railings watching today’s game.

Trainman - July 10, 2008 reply

Nice

I did get a little push back last night when I suggested that fouls on an 0-2 count were worth tracking. ;-)

Would love to see the scoresheet. The stock scorebook I use doesn’t have enough room for modern MLB pitching, which is frustrating as heck.

same sentiment here

As soon as we had that long delay when Batista left, I knew that Joe was going to lose focus and give up at least a run in the next half-inning. Same thing with the A’s long rally in the 4th.

I don’t know if Joe has just utterly lost any and all durability, or if he’s ADD, or if he hates throwing to Zooks, or if he’s just got Zitoitis. But he was terrible last night—he looked like Braden out there.

I'm glad someone brought this up

During that delay, Blanton went to the bullpen to warm up. It used to be that a pitcher was not allowed to warm up in the bullpen once he had entered the game. I was expecting Riggleman to have the umpires put a stop to it. When he didn’t, I figured the rule must have been changed. Can anyone here shed some light on this?

good question

I too noticed Joe idling his motor in the pen, but I’d forgotten/never knew about that rule.

Dear god that was a serious hit

put on by Hannahan. I love the clear change in direction we he decided he knew what he had to do.

Crushing hit...

Gotta give it to Clement though….He took it and got right back up and certainly looked less banged up than Hanny by the hit even though he took the brunt of it. Tough dude. Also like Ibanez after the game saying he thought it was just a clean, hard play.

OaktownPower - July 10, 2008 reply

agreed on both Clement and Yeswecannahan

...And, he made sure he touched home plate this time.

Pretty good image from the cctimes gallery.

Eric Byrnes he isn't

doctorK - July 10, 2008 reply

That might be his best hit all season.

+1

Zing!

HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!

It’s funny because it’s true.

When Chavy comes back

maybe Hanahan becomes designated 3rd base pinch runner. Something like a meat grinder, I suppose, but would play to his “strength.” ;-)

I still can't believe...

Joe beat Zito to 12. That’s impressive.

HarbirD - July 10, 2008 reply

LOL, Mariners finally release Sexson

According to ESPN ticker on TV

Trainman - July 10, 2008 reply

Hannahan Micro Manage, Cust Macro Manage

Not to get too worked up about a single AB, but when Hannahan came up with a runner on 2nd and nobody out in the bottom of the 6th, a game that the A’s were losing by 2 runs, he had one really horrible AB. He took the first 3 pitches for 3-0, then, as all A’s do, took a fastball right down the heart of the plate for strike 1. He then swung and fouled off a low fastball. On 3-2 he got a pitch down and in and rather than simply rolling the ball over to the right side and moving Suzuki to third -where he would have scored on the subsequent Murphy fly ball to right, he went inside out and hit a soft, shallow fly ball to left. (I think I’ve seen Hannahan fly out to left 100 times this year …) One out, Suzuki still on second.

Again, it’s one simple AB, I know, baseball isn’t a science, he didn’t try to leave the guy at second, etc.

But if you’re hitting .220 on a club that has a terrible time scoring runs (and seldom hits HRs) you really have to look like you are at least trying to move the runner over in that situation. Hannahan didn’t do that. Boo.

As for Cust, I can only imagine how satisfying it must feel, for one brief pleasant moment, to be a Mariners fan and know that they finally dumped that bum Sexton. Here’s hoping that Cust is a late throw in to the Harden giveaway.

solotar - July 10, 2008 reply

Richie Sexson's EqA: .251

Jack Cust’s EqA: .282

Cust is hitting like a league average DH. Sexson is hitting like a league average shortstop.

Tell me there’s no difference between those two. I dare you.

It doesn't work that way

We can’t assume events would have followed in the same manner with a change in the cirumstances. Hanahan’s objective was to bring Suzuki home without surrendering an out. Failing in that regard, it would have been helpful if he could have advanced Suzuki with an out. Even if he did, we don’t know that Murphy would have hit the fly ball to right with Suzuki on third base. He may well have been pitched differently or had the pitcher throwing from the windup instead of the stretch. Murphy may have taken a different approach at the plate. He may have struck out or hit a homer but we’ll never know.

no, no, no

Knowing that Blanton was going to cough up up 6 runs, Cust should have hit a 7-run homer leading off the second.