Athletics Nation

I am going to very politely suggest

That I was the first. :)

THANK YOU for the diary.

I was composing the news in another window, and trying to find internet links. It snowballed from there, but I was going to link your diary too.

You're now linked.

Ha ha, it's all good!

I’ve peeked around the site for awhile, but never posted anything of any sort. It was random that I happened to be online and listening to WSCR when they broke the news.

Great site. Keep up the good work.

ESPN did not dig at Harden, IMO

“sixth trip to the disabled list in his six-year career” does not tell more than a small piece of the story. They could mean 6 15-day DL-trips in 6 years, which would be totally normal.

ESPN hasn’t explained the depths of Harden’s injury woes in almost any of the lead articles, preferring to leave it at “six trips to the disabled list in his six-year career.” I’m sure the fans who are paying attention have looked up his stats (ie IP), but for many Cubs fans, the Harden trade provides a psychological answer to the Brewers move, with no real strings attached.

Mark Borgschulte - July 10, 2008 reply

we shouldve gotten vitters

boooooo

johnjahafanclub - July 8, 2008 reply

That was really quick

Billy probably knows what he’s doing, but I don’t anything about the Cubs players.

Hmmmm

Just saw this on ESPN

Don’t know a whole lot about the Cubs players other than Murton, but I think I’m more upset that Gaudin got thrown into this trade. I honestly think Gaudin is more valuable and better than Blanton, so the Cubs got the injury riddled Harden AND Gaudin for what????
Scratching my head, but I guess I’ll wait to pass judgment.

GAUDIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I totally agree. I’m not seeing anything here that was worth losing Gaudin over! He is starter ready and was only put in the bullpen due to Harden’s return in a crowded rotation. I could of let Harden go but Gaudin just crosses the line.

I don’t know much about these guys from the cubs but I’m not thinking the cubs fans will miss any of them.

dude, he's fresh, too

only 6 starts on his arm, and months of rest. if you play fantasy, you should grab Gaudin.

What-what-what?!?

Harden AND Gaudin?

Someone’s getting a callup. Please not DiNardo or Saarloos.

Holy crap

Does this trade suck at first glance.

That's pretty much my impression

Murton is more or less Bobby Kielty – that’s useful to the A’s right now, but not terribly exciting.
Donaldson is a catcher who appears to be not hitting in A ball.
Patterson is a toolsy outfielder who’s hit decently in the minors and is already 25.
Gallagher is a young pitcher who’s put up good (but rarely great) numbers at every level in the minors, but hasn’t had major league success.

Clearly Beane sees some real upside in at least one of these players, but I’m honestly not sure which.

So will Gallagher go into the rotaion??

Or is a Gio call up on the horizon?

Gio has been awesome; I'd love to see him.

Inoa. Now.

A'sian - July 8, 2008 reply

Lol

First player called up straight from the DSL.

[jumps from ledge]

you mean porch?

ak_A - July 8, 2008 reply

Wellll...

...I’ll obviously reserve judgment on this deal until everything is said and done, but I’m glad it came off 2 “hurt” Harden starts, and not his “perfect game” ones.

Are those 4 players mentioned the only ones the A's got?

yeah

hurt harden always seem to go together think billy finally found some interest in him. hate to see him go but really did we ever get to see him enough?

the press release said Harden has made like 89 career starts

wow, I don’t remember him pitching that much??

hell yeah, bballgirl

“dead arm” = out for the season in two weeks with 50% prob, given what we’ve seen from Richie.

this sucks.

Why Gaudin?

And not Blanton? The more I think about this the less I like it.

i cannot believe this

I just watched Rich’s last game, in person here in Chicago, and I can’t believe it.
The A’s were robbed blind by this trade. Robbed blind.
Quite possibly the saddest day of my A’s fan life…
Not even someone like Pie? Vitters? And dealing Gaudin too? Jeez…the cubs just got a shit ton better.

catfish hunter - July 8, 2008 reply

I saw that one

and his 4th career start in Chicago vs. Loaiza. Crazy memories at the Cell.

I saw his debut at Kaufman. I was so freakin' jacked and now I'm the

opposite of jacked.

ohtobe21likehuston - July 8, 2008 reply

Holy crap!

Did the cubs back up the truck?

A'sian - July 8, 2008 reply

Seems like no "elite" prospects

The time was right to deal Harden…thought it might bring more?

Exactly my thought

Did Billy get too excited that someone, anyone, would take Harden off his hands that he traded for a bucketload of worthless?

jonahsilas - July 8, 2008 reply

wow this sucks

donkey balls

SoCalA'sFan - July 8, 2008 reply

Gallagher is only 22

He’s got a 1.36 WHIP in 12 games, 10 starts, he’ll probably plug into the rotation immediately

The reports seem to say

2 as-yet unnamed players for Harden and Gallagher/Murton/Patterson/Donaldson for Gaudin.

green star oakland - July 8, 2008 reply

right

so josh vitters and someone else. no big

i havent seen that yet, i only see the 4

Where are you seeing this?

I see “six player deal, Gaudin and Harden for those four”

link?

Bitey - July 8, 2008 reply

At first glance I'm calling this Billy Beane's worst trade ever

I’m not sure I’d trade Gaudin alone for those 4 guys.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

I would give Gaudin for the 4 guys but only because he wasn't starting

And that, my friends...

is why I’m not a baseball GM.

sonomanate - July 8, 2008 reply

Harden AND Gaudin

and no Vitters?

NateHST - July 8, 2008 reply

i'm waiting for the "and a PTBNL"

meaning josh vitters

I'd still think that would make the deal heavily lopsided in favor of the 2008 World Series Champions

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

the brewers?

The Cubs are the best team in baseball right now

Even if Harden gets hurt, the Gaudin thing was such a steal for Hendry.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Yeah, that's the part I don't understand.

If Harden is broken, then fine – getting Gallagher and Murton plus a couple minor leaguers is fine.

WHY THE FUCK DEAL GAUDIN ALONG WITH HIM?

mikev - July 8, 2008 reply

and even then...

I’m waiting for the “a AAA team to be named later.” Has Billy been hanging out with Chris Mullin too much and studying his techniques on how to get rid of talented players? Too soon?

TempletonPeck - July 8, 2008 reply

That just completely ruined my day.

#14fan - July 8, 2008 reply

+1

+ 10000000000

gigglingone - July 8, 2008 reply

I felt this way once before

when Bush was re-elected in 2004. I think I’m gonna puke.

+1000000000

want to burn my A’s shirt

schmifty - July 8, 2008 reply

Wow

Looks like a pile of poop to me.

I’ll reserve judgment for a while but… blech.

paul

what if the ptbnl that some are reporting is vitters?

There is no PTBNL

Agreed

that's my reaction

I’ve been pounding the trade Harden drum for some time—but only for a back-up-the-truck deal. Which this really doesn’t seem to be. I’m not impressed.

And including Gaudin? That … is peculiar. Seems to me Beane could have done better dealing each separately (presuming moving Gaudin back to the rotation and reestablshing his value).

i blame you

Billy read your comment about his setting the bar too high for Blanton and then lowered it. Two hours ago, I tried briefly to compose a reply warning that Billy could also set the bar too low, but there was a glitch and my reply didn’t post. “Oh well,” I thought, never imagining that my failure to reply would change the course of A’s history.

rubin sierra - July 8, 2008 reply

Umm ... I guess there was no glitch. Moving on ...

rubin sierra - July 8, 2008 reply

Pucking A

Why not wait till the deadline?

Pucking Insane - July 8, 2008 reply

A's release

Right Here.

I understand harden

but Gaudin too!!!

What is going on. All of these players seem like AAAA dudes. Are we gonna trade Blanton now too?

Who takes his place?

I don’t like to questions Billy, but I don’t know about this one.

robber23 - July 8, 2008 reply

I know we've been talking about the possibility of trading Rich all season

but now that he is gone is really hurts.

I’m seriously sad right now.

SoCalA'sFan - July 8, 2008 reply

I'm absolutely floored

That Beane could trade Harden AND Gaudin and not even get Vitters in return.

This is just something else.

Vitters can't be traded...per MLB rules.

but you guys are getting a decent pitcher in Gallagher and a legit LF in Murton. There is much hand wringing over losing Gallagher, just so you know.

That package shouldn't be good enough for one of them, let alone both. Gallagher won't change

that

Talk to your GM...he seemed to think it was.

Look…based on Harden’s past DL experience, most of the risk involved in this transaction is on our side. I’m guessing Beane was willing to part with Chad to insure the deal got done.

Yeah, god forbid the A's don't pick up Sean Gallagher...

Well, at least the #5 starter spot is nailed down for a while.

sorry, you're wrong

we just picked up a platoon leftfielder, a shittier younger brother of a shitty player, a #5 starter, and a catcher, albeit a prospect, hitting under .220 in the low minors.

+1

Bitey - July 8, 2008 reply

You picked up a #5 22 yr/o

Who is a #5 right now, in his rookie season, he’ll get better.

tigerhawk61 - July 8, 2008 reply

right

gallagher is the prize of the deal. great.

PECOTA hates him

Has him as a 1.5 WHIP/5 ERA guy for the next 7 years

Murton is only a "platoon leftfielder" because our $120 million dollar K-out machine

took his position. Play him everyday and he’ll put up .300/.365/.450 for you…he just didn’t really get a chance. Patterson is a much better hitter than he gets credit for..again…we have 42 2nd basemen on our 40 man roster…so he didn’t get a chance either.

he's a platoon guy for us most likely though

with cust in left/dh, sweeney and cargon in cf/rf and hurt dh’ing when he comes back, plus bankston, barton…etc.

fer sher

Don’t we have more than enough marginal OF’s?

jonahsilas - July 8, 2008 reply

Not that it helps any...

....but Eric Patterson is way less shitty than his brother.

sitrick2 - July 8, 2008 reply

Fantastic, thanks!

As long as we’re getting a decent pitcher. By the way, you guys are getting a better than decent pitcher… and Harden.

Sacred#24 - July 8, 2008 reply

Not true - he could be included as a PTBNL

he better be

for this trade to make any sense

Don't think he is

Just responding that he could be traded.

Actually, he couldn't be

The PTBNL has to be named well before the one-year anniversary of Vitters signing, which is the earliest he could be dealt.

battlekow - July 8, 2008 reply

Er, ignore me

I was thinking for some reason that Vitters was drafted this year.

battlekow - July 8, 2008 reply

This is not looking good

It may be better than we are all giving it credit but it looks like it really suck balls right now. That was a lot to give up to just get 4 guys back.

A'sfaninNC - July 8, 2008 reply

we are now officially off the fence and are in full blown re-building mode

A'sfaninNC - July 8, 2008 reply

Not really news...

Many thought we were in re-building mode before this season. Just because the A’s have exceeded expectations doesn’t necessarily change that.

+1

i was not one of the fence sitters

I knew and understood that this was a rebuilding year. But this trade (unless Harden is hurt) seems a little one sided to the cubs. My comment was for those that may have been leaning toward going for the playoffs this year

A'sfaninNC - July 8, 2008 reply

On ESPN now...

It’s just the 4 guys back.

The #5, 7 Prospects

2 AAAA talents…really?

I mean we’ll all love this if Rich’s arm falls off next week

I'm the #1 prospect in my house

Being the tallest midgets doesn’t make them good.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

uh

it makes them better at nerf basketball

and if Gaudin Dies.

Sacred#24 - July 8, 2008 reply

Honestly

We all know that Harden was a ticking time bomb, so really, how much more were we going to get? I just don’t like Gaudin being involved. Damn it.

I was somewhat shocked to see Gaudin's name in the mix

I thought he would slip into the rotation when Harden was dealt…

SwisherThresher - July 8, 2008 reply

How much more?

Well, maybe the Rasmus rumors were pulled out of someone’s ass, but I’d take him in a second over this group.

To think

Just last night we were salivating at the slightest hope of Rich Harden for Rasmus and Anderson, and what we get is Sean Gallagher and a bag of balls and lose Chad Gaudin as well for our troubles.

+1

So I took a few minutes to talk it out with my Cubs fan mother

And this trade still sucks for the A’s.

I have no problem with trading Harden. Or Gaudin. This isn’t one of those “Gotta hang onto everybody” complains.

But unless Donaldson is Johnny Bench and Ivan Rodriguez combined, this is Billy’s worst big-time trade ever. And it’s really not close.

Gallagher won’t ever be as good as Harden, and he probably won’t be as good as Gaudin, either. Eric Patterson sucks as much as his brother. Matt Murton is better than Emil Brown, so I like that aspect.

Harden must be hurt, because Beane just sold him and Gaudin for 25 cents on the dollar.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Harden may very well be hurt

His last two starts, he wasn’t close to the same pitcher.

Well, he had his velocity last start

But he was wild and the Sox are a good enough team to handle a two-pitch pitcher who is wild. I don’t know if he’s hurt though.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

I agree, Hardin and Gaudin

seem to be not in top form.

Harden says he gets a “dead arm” after missing most of April (equivalent). Gaudin seems to be coming in,giving up runs in relief, though they are usually someone else’s runners that he inherits.
I have no faith with him coming in.

The way Gaudin’s been used, like that one-inning, ninth inning mop-up job he did a week or so ago in a blowout….what was with that??? Except to prevent someone from “peeking at the cards”. I don’t think he is 100% healthy, but he’s been kept off the mound to make it look “good”.

Both Gaudin and Hardin, they’d probably tell you, “I feel great, everything’s working great.” But then you see them get treatment from the trainer, or pop a lot of Advil, look at video, get outside consultations on pitching motion…they may all tell you stuff, and you have to act…

and by act, I mean action (see Mulder, Mark, and trade for Haren (who? ) and Barton.

Here's what the trade looks like to me

Gallagher + Murton + Patterson + 48th Overall Pick (2007 Draft)

for,

Harden + Gaudin + No Physicals

Harden is definitely a ticking timebomb. Beane couldn’t wait any longer. HIs next start could be his last, and from the looks of Harden’s last 2 starts, guys weren’t getting fooled because of Velocity Decline.

As for Gaudin… Control Issues were a Huge Problem as a Starter. And, he’ll be a Free Agent after the 2010 Season.

Please extend Mark Ellis & Justin Duchscherer!!!

Ellis & Duke

Please extend Mark Ellis & Justin Duchscherer!!!

Agreed! Their price isn’t likely to go down, but should be reasonable now, and both seem to be looking for security more than a big payout. Locking in Ellis and Duke for 3 years each at a reasonable price makes sense—Ellis is the best defensive second baseman in the AL and solid at the plate. In 3 years maybe Weeks is ready to take over. And Duke has been great as a reliever and a starter.

andyinfremont - July 9, 2008 reply

So your mom is our resident Cubs prospect expert?

Good puck in convincing the jury on that one, eh?

Pucking Insane - July 8, 2008 reply

The point of that statement was just to say I thought it out and analyzed it

instead of just sticking with my gut reaction. Her only comment was “They better not have traded Reed Johnson.”

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

I wish they would trade Reed Johnson.

FREE FELIX PIE.

sitrick2 - July 8, 2008 reply

Murton/Brown

That’s the small shred of silver lining (though not enough to make me not hate this trade).
Can we finally DFA DFA?

If we DFA DFA there'll be a DFA party

IN BILLY WE TRUST

Lets not forget what the same man got in return for Swisher and Haren.

I think BB knows something about Harden’s recent slow in velocity.

Are we not all hyperventilating a bit...

We all know Harden and his propensity to get injured. He has complained of arm soreness on many occasions this year with a strict pitch count.

Gaudin is a tough one, because everyone here appreciates what he did last year, but with Duke in the rotation he is expendable.

Murton fills an immediate need right now. How many of you kill Emil on a daily basis

And if the young kids come through the way Sweeny has…maybe this isnt so bad

Except that Duke isn't replacing Gaudin

and everyone expected Gaudin to replace Harden or Blanton when they inevitably departed. I honestly think Gaudin is/will be better than Blanton.

There aren't many people

That don’t think Blanton is better than Gaudin.

I messed that up.

Gaudin > Blanton

count me in the few

blanton has far better track record than gaudin.

I'm with you.

Me too

I’ll take Solid Longevity over Potential.

Blanton > Gaudin

The few,

are not so few? I agree, Cupcakes > Gaudin. Gaudin’s K / BB rate is improved this year, but he’s been used quite a bit as a reliever, not a starter.

the other thing is

maybe Beane is looking to flip one or two of these guys to some other team, ya never know.

It could be like Ryan Langerhans all over again.

Please just let me cling to whatever optimistic illusion I might be able to find a scrap of.

I had no idea who any of the Dbacks or White Sox prospects were, either.

Damn AN 3.0

That was supposed to be a reply to andeux… somewhere…

what am I, chopped Langerhans?

sorry, I’m not very sharp-witted when I’m depressed.

QOTM

Wait...

...whatever happened to Doyle, anyway?

juanmiguel - July 8, 2008 reply

You people crack me up – Most of you know nothing about the players the A’s are getting in return.

Same people who paniced when Haren was dealt, freaked out when Swisher was traded and lost their minds when Mulder was shipped off.

This was a good deal for the A’s…Even though you can’t wrap your heads around it, it is.

The A’s still compete in 2008, and are even stronger moving forward.

I agree that the first reaction around here is usually panic

But you must understand, Billy traded his best (if oft-injured pitcher) and the guy we all thought would replace him for… well, not for the Cubs’ top prospect, which you would figure would just be the beginning.

I’m all for trusting Billy on this one. But head-scratcher doesn’t even, er, scratch the surface on this one.

It is because you overvalue Harden

If his arm falls off, which given his history is very likely, then he isn’t worth anything. His return value would be ZERO.

It is hard, because you guys get to watch Harden when he isn’t injured… ie, the most dominating pitcher in the game. But Beane knows Harden’s injury history better than anyone. He got what was available. Be thankful for that.

Well, that leads to a good question of what's better:

a high likelihood of okay-ness, or a small chance at excellence.

Unless Beane really, truly believes that Harden is physically incapable of pitching over 125 or so innings per season in the majors, then he’s giving up something really significant in trading someone with Harden’s talent and track record.

Are you a Cubs fan?

How the fuck do the A’s still compete in 2008?

i'm having trouble with that too

Sign Bonds?

Wait, no.

Better yet

How the hell does this trade help them compete in 2009 and 2010?

There’s nobody here worth plugging into our future plans except maybe Gallagher- another freaking pitcher.

This is exactly why you are fans…

...And Billy is running the club.

You think with your hearts and rush to judgment, and Billy uses his head (which he has done successfully, time and time again)

Paul, I bet you were asking that exact same question before the season started.

no one is thinking with their hearts for the most part

is the thing though.

no one here believes rich harden can stay healthy for a full season.

we just were expecting more, is all. at first glance, this trade looks like shit for us.

Then ask yourself why you were expecting more...

Harden’s injury history is no secret. The Cubs are well aware I’m sure. In spite of this, you think any GM should give up a top prospect for a guy who’s arm is beyond ‘risky’?

Evading the question

A leading indicator of being full of shit.

You said it, you back it up. How do the A’s compete in 2008?

(BTW, I didn’t think the A’s would compete at all this season, and I was OK with that. I’m OK with them not competing down the stretch. I’m just trying to figure out where the hell your position is coming from.)

The A's might compete despite this trade in 2008

say, if Gio Gonzalez is called up and turns into Fernando Valenzuela. Or if Joe Blanton decides to become unhittable for a couple of months in the second half.

But there’s no way they compete in 2008 because of this trade.

I understand your point, Giorgio,

and if you were just speaking generically it would make sense.

But if you knew Paul at all, you wouldn’t direct it at him.

iglew - July 8, 2008 reply

Were the A's ever "Competing"?

I watch almost every Cubs game

Murton is basically Bobby Kielty, but he only bats right-handed. And he can’t play defense very well.

Patterson has no business being anywhere on a major league roster.

Gallagher is good, young, but he’s not Harden.

I don’t think Donaldson is good enough to be the prize of a deal that costs the team Harden and Gaudin.

I just can’t believe Beane couldn’t have gotten twice as much for a guy who is a top 5 starter in baseball when healthy.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

when

That’s why

Right, because Carl Pavano never got a massive 4-year deal

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

From a Steinbrenner, though...

That sort of changes the equation a little.

“Murton is basically Bobby Kielty, but he only bats right-handed. And he can’t play defense very well.”

Since Kielty could only bat right handed (even though he was a switch hitter), it sounds like he’s a smarter version of Bobby Kielty. I think he’s a redhead, too.

We might not know much of what we are getting

but we do know what we are losing. IMO Harden is the equal if not better then Zambrano, injuries aside. Wait, Zambrano is injured tơ right? Seems they’re about equal then huh? Cubs got a gift and we got fleeced.

Injuries aside?

That’s a bit of a ridiculous comment. You can’t just put the injuries aside. As I recall, Harden was complaining of a dead arm a couple starts ago. As great as he is, the injuries continue and can’t be poo-pooed

+1

Being emotional is one thing

equating Carlos Zambrano to Rich Harden in terms of health and durability is ridonkulous.

no elite hitter prospect=bad trade

some other team would have givin us an ELITE bat prospect for those two. who cares about the scraps that came with it

TheLC - July 8, 2008 reply

I agree with the TheLC

I was expecting a good hitting prospect. BB already made quantity over quality trades in the offseason. I was hoping for quality this time. now we get to wait and see.

Days like this are very hard

As my wife said, “Hottie Rich Harden? But he speaks fluent Canadian!”

Looking forward to learning more about our new farmhands.

Good luck Rich!

louismg - July 8, 2008 reply

I think the move on Harden was too quick

He’s a special kind of talent and Beane gave up on him too early. I think I’m in the minority but I would have wanted him to sat with the A’s a lot longer. And then he gives a gift to the Cubs with Gaudin too. I’m no Peter Gammons but this trade looks like dookie-booty for us right now

Giving up on him too early? Did you forget that hes been jumping back to the DL multiple times for the past 4 seasons?

How many trips to the DL will it take for you all to realize that the A’s deserve more consistency if they want to make the playoffs in the coming seasons?

exactly

how many turn into Sandy Koufax after an injury record like this. I think the velocity drop is very telling.
That’s why the A’s got what they got.
Gaudin was injured, had surgery. It’s not like “shiny toys outta the box”. These guys have serious smoke coming out of the tailpipes.

I agree. Why now? Why this deal?

Pucking Insane - July 8, 2008 reply

Why now????

see press conference, CC Sabathia.

Cubs have to do something, if not just for the fans, but the psychology of the club.

Word out of Chicago is this trade has been in the works for nearly a month...

...well before CC’s trade.

sfgate updated their article

””The Cubs were pretty aggressive,” Beane said. “(Cubs GM) Jim Hendry and I talk quite a bit anyway. We consistently had conversations over the past month; we came to an agreement this morning. They were looking for Rich is what they were looking for.”“

(sorry i dunno how to block-quote)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/08/SPFE11LLCS.DTL

the frenzy is now. In a month, Milwaukee may fall back

then the Cubs might be ahead by ten games at July 31, don’t need Rich…Rich, two more starts, 91 mph, wild…Gaudin mediocre… it just makes sense with the hoopla in Milwaukee that NOW rather than an unknown later, to pull the trigger. So what if the bullet was in the chamber two weeks ago, a month ago? Your question was, why pull now and not 7/31.

Just my opinion. Of course.

Beane himself

Didn’t BB himself say that Harden is such a special talent that you don’t give up on him? Those prospects we got back don’t add up to Harden’s talent level… (do they?)

sec119 - July 8, 2008 reply

It'd be a different story if Harden wasn't injury prone

Billy Beane is smarter than all of us...

Still sucks to have lost Baron Davis and Rich Harden in a one week span…

He is.

But with every other Beane trade where everybody freaked out, I still saw what he was doing. I don’t see that this time. I think he underestimated Harden’s market value because he more than other GMs knows his actual value.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

+1

truelements - July 8, 2008 reply

The market value is determined by what other teams are willing to offer.

And I’m sure Beane knows that better than anyone else alive. He is the one entertaining the offers after all.

Pietrus to the Magic today as well

so sayeth sfgate

Also, he traded Mulder before his injuries took over his career.

+1 We've all been through this before... Tim Hudson, Mark Mulder... have hope Oakland Fans!

Maybe don't throw in Tim Hudson

I’d like to forget the awful trades.

southofcruiseamerica - July 8, 2008 reply

We ain't getting a Dan Haren or a Daric Barton back this time.

lenscrafters - July 8, 2008 reply

Is this shit final?

Does it have to be approved by the MLB? Does Harden need to pass a physical?

Thais sucks

Bitey - July 8, 2008 reply

If you give it another generation or two,

this business model is eventually bound to produce a WS title

give this comment the proverbial plus one

Cutthemullet - July 8, 2008 reply

I think most people here can live with Harden being shipped off

for this package, but Gaudin too! That’s my big problem . . .

Replace Patterson with, like, somebody with talent

And I’d be ok with it. Marmol instead of Patterson and I’m sold. Vitters instead of Patterson and yay. But I’m not sure how Patterson is more useful than Rajai Davis (not exactly the same type of player, but pretty close).

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Well, let's not go THAT far

Patterson has a better minors track record than Rajai.

He's better

But not necessarily more useful in filling a role. He’s basically a fast guy who can’t really hit. He can hit a little better, but he can’t play the outfield well (he’s only been doing it a year or two). He’s a 2B and I would rather have Ellis, Petit, Murphy, or, like, anybody.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Except for 37 PAs

in 2005 at AA in the Southern, Patterson’ raw OPS in the minors has been above the league average in every single season, at every level. Same with his raw OBP. Granted, he’s been slightly old for his levels. More of a concern, his homeparks at AA, and AAA, where he’s spent most of his minor league career, are hitter’s parks.

The issue really is his D. If he’s actually really 2b, he’s a pretty useful piece. If he can play D at 2b adequately, league average, he should overall be capable of being a league average 2b.

I think most people here

overestimate the value of Chad Gaudin. My problem is with the Harden part.

agreed

Gaudin right now doesn't have much value

Trade Harden, move Gaudin back into the rotation for either 3 weeks or 55 weeks, and he has a fair amount of value.

...yeah

Cutthemullet - July 8, 2008 reply

yes

This is a joke...

This is obviously a joke.

That’s what I’m gonna keep telling myself.

Philip Christy - July 8, 2008 reply

Keep telling yourself that you narrow minded fan.

lol

the onus is now on you to describe a 2011 scenario in which the A’s win a World Series led by the Gallagher-Donaldson battery. Put your imagination to the test.

Cutthemullet - July 8, 2008 reply

They're interviewing Pinella on ESPN

Repeating this over and over to myself:

I love Carlos Gonzalez, Ryan Sweeney, Dana Eveland and Greg Smith… I love Carlos Gonzalez, Ryan Sweeney, Dana Eveland and Greg Smith… I love Carlos Gonzalez, Ryan Sweeney, Dana Eveland and Greg Smith… I love Carlos Gonzalez, Ryan Sweeney, Dana Eveland and Greg Smith…

can you put that on a tape for me?

Let's get drunk and get tattoos.

okay.

can we kidnap Rich too?

Noooooooobody knows the trouble I've seeeeeeen!

Link.

Someone go check on prana160.

I'm still here

barely! Thanks for the concern. Since then, I added TBuck to the list—uh oh…we’ll see how that one turns out. So, am I allowed to be an A’s fan and have a favorite player?

prana160 - July 8, 2008 reply

And Ziggy.

I’m going to drink my sorrows away and work on the Ziggy Bobble Village project.

Ironically

my reaction to the Haren trade was the same as my reaction to this – seems like we sacrificed quality in favor of quantity. That one is looking a lot better now, as Gonzalez and Smith have both progressed faster than I expected (as has Sweeney, from the Swisher trade). But I’m really not sure what the upside is in the players we got today.

Oh, here you are.

The following reply was misposted onto another comment in the flurry that is this diary:

Please just let me cling to whatever optimistic illusion I might be able to find a scrap of.
I had no idea who any of the Dbacks or White Sox prospects were, either.

I was hoping for quality this time :-(

Honestly no one should be suprised...

Harden was traded.

+1. Good call Syphon.

Nobody is

people just wish Billy could have gotten more for him

Of course we all wish we could have gotten someone like Lee from the Cubs but no GM with half a brain would over look Harden's trips to the DL...

Precisely.

In a way, I’m actually a bit relieved to have one less day-to-day guy around.

I’m gonna go take some deep breaths and try to make this all make sense.

What scares me: This seems to indicate that Billy doesn’t expect Ellis back. Patterson can’t play the outfield (maybe he’s not as bad as Cust, but pretty close).

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Also maybe indicates that Chavez in on the shelf til next year (at least)

I'm surprised since the A's are only a few back in the WC.

why?

Good point.

It just seems stupid to blow up the team until you are 6/7 back.

agreed

I'm surprised that we didn't even get a GOOD prospect for him.

mikev - July 8, 2008 reply

Because you, of all people would know... Goddamn this pessimism is annoying...

whereas your mindless abuse is fascinating

green star oakland - July 8, 2008 reply

So what's the value here?

A 22 year old 5th starter? Sweet, but we’ve already got a ton of pitching in the minors who will be ready as soon as next year

A fast 2B with terrible plate discipline? Uh, yay?

An AAAA left fielder? We already have Emil Brown, we already released Todd Linden.

A light hitting catcher in A ball? So what. Our starting catcher right now is only in his 2nd year in the big leagues. Catcher wasn’t anything CLOSE to a need.

mikev - July 8, 2008 reply

right

I'm Flustered....

That is all..

I think that Beane

is trying to lose his rep as a sharp trader so other GMS will trade with him hehe.

The Mike Caro strategy?

Poker?

Mike Caro is famous

for deliberately playing like a lunatic half the time, then making up for it by playing brilliantly the rest of the time while everyone thinks he’s still playing like a lunatic.

BRILLIANT!

In Beane we trust!

truelements - July 8, 2008 reply

Cubs fan here...

...we’re a bit confused over at BCB, too guys. Obviously Harden’s durability is always in question, but Gaudin seems too good to be true? Why would both be in the trade?

Murton is LF ready, and can produce and get on base, just needs to start on a regular basis, and he was blocked for too long at Wrigley. And Patterson, hell if I know.

Gallagher is going to be a solid starter. If Harden doesn’t pan out because of injuries, the A’s have the upside here with Gallagher.

Donaldson? Don’t know much about him, but he’s not gonna start with Soto behind the plate.

Dan

Gaudin

= Walk-itis. He walks waaaaaay too many guys. His stuff is good.

Harden = Shoulder-itis. I’d be very surprised if he makes it to September. VERY SURPRISED. So, when Harden comes down w/ “Inflamation in the Shoulder”, don’t blame Billy Beane. Hendry had access to all medical records and doctors. It’s a huge Risk for the Cubs (IMO), but one they had to take (IMO).

I hope you can hold your breath. That’s what I’ve been doing for every Harden start for the last 3 years.

(exhale)

Great analysis by Rob Neyer in his article yesterday

(This is an Insider article, but I’m only presenting two paragraphs). Let’s hope that this was prophetic:

This is where proximity really helps. Nobody should have a better idea about Harden’s immediate future than the A’s. If they think he’s going to be healthy for the rest of this season, they should keep him. With a healthy Harden, there’s no obvious reason to think the A’s can’t contend for a playoff spot down the stretch. Which is, you know, what it’s all about.
But if he’s not healthy, they probably don’t have the depth to contend because their pitching has to carry them.

Granted, all this may change between now and the July 31 trade deadline. At the moment, the A’s are 3½ games behind the wild-card-leading Red Sox. If they’re six or seven games out, the equation’s different. But if the A’s are still close at the end of this month and they’re willing to deal Harden? Caveat emptor.

I honestly don't think Harden is 100 percent healthy

His last two games were his two worst games of the season and I’m guessing Beane is pulling a quick one because, hell, you have to sell on Harden while you can still get something for him and he isn’t on the DL for the 100th time. Interesting that Cubs fans are delighted about it given that they had two of the most legendarily injury prone pitchers of the last decade in Wood and Prior. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s why Gaudin was included as the Cubs insurance policy in case Harden shows up, pitches one game and winds up back on the DL.

I could be wrong, but that’s how I’m viewing this right now. I knew a Harden deal was coming. I could just sense it. But I was hoping Beane would get more for him without having to include Gaudin.

Tyler Bleszinski - July 8, 2008 reply

Agreed on your points.

And I wouldn’t be suprised if Beane moved some of these new guys he got today in another trade.

My question, Blez, is - if he's hurt in the near future

it looks like we traded damaged goods. Granted, the risks are well known, but still – doesn’t seem like a way the A’s would want to do business, trading someone because they think/know he’ll break down very soon, or already has.

nico come on

everyone knows Harden is damaged goods. That has never been news.

That's not my point.

My point is, if Harden makes one start and then goes on the DL for two months, sure the deal looks better for the A’s but how do the A’s look?

I agree

I think Harden is hurt, with the way he pitched in the last two starts. In fact, I think there is a chance this trade could be voided, if a physical is involved. The only reason I DON’T think that is that there is no way Beane would do that. You don’t misrepresent like that when you make your living on the trading block.

More likely: the Cubbies FER SURE watched Harden’s last two starts. Gaudin had to be thrown in cuz neither Beane or they know what Rich’s health status is. Now, how Beane would convince them (and others) that he doesn’t/didn’t know… especially if Richie’s arm falls off… which is a definite possiblity….

oops

should have read the next point on the thread before posting. i agree, blez.

only question: how does Beane convince the Cubs he doesn’t have any inside info? And if Harden’s arm falls off, how does he convince everyone else, in order to make deals in the future?

As great as this trade is for the Cubbies, it is total crap if Harden goes down. Gaudin is good, but too much of an unknown to be worth four guys, even if two are AAAA.

I'm honestly just guessing

But Harden’s fastball velocity was down BIG time his last two starts. He didn’t hit 95-96 regularly on his fastball. He just wasn’t his dominant self. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but that’s what I saw. And maybe that’s exactly WHY Gaudin wound up as a part of the deal. I’m sure that Cubs scouting had to have noticed that as well. Apparently this deal has been in the works for more than a month by all published reports.

Tyler Bleszinski - July 8, 2008 reply

I think what we learned today is that

Harden’s value on the market was low. Apparently we’re not the only ones who noticed how often he’s hurt.

agree 100% on all points

At least Dusty isn't there anymore

doctorK - July 8, 2008 reply

For the Record...

Does Harden have to pass a physical before the deal is finalized, ala the NFL and NBA?

still think harden is injured and possibly heafed for the dl...

cubs panicked bc of the Brewers and beane may have seen harden headed to the dl and decided to get something in return…

From what we're hearing in Chicago...

...this trade has been in the works for the last month. Well before CC’s trade.

Dan

that's true

Gaudin

I realize people had high hopes for Gaudin, but have you looked at his splits from last year? After May, his era was 5.87 and that’s even with a 4.04 June. Gaudin is nothing more than a short term answer and considering the injury risk with Harden, that’s probably why the Cubs insisted on Gaudin.

Yeah

Turns out pitching with a fucking broken foot will tend to skew the numbers a little.

no way

show me some empirical evidence

Wasn't it a broken hip?

In that case, he has no excuse!

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

he had a hurt foot and hip.

stm72 - July 8, 2008 reply

Injured hip and a fractured sesamoid in the foot

Fooch knows things.

Here we go again

Those high hopes for Gaudin came recently. When the A’s acquired him, the general reaction was, “Why the hell did they want this guy?” Now we have folks ready to jump off a bridge because he was traded. We may well repeat this story with Gallagher in a few years.

HA!

i called it yesterday. gaudin was not in the a’s future.

stm72 - July 8, 2008 reply

Can any of these positions players...

...hit the baseball? A quick look at their stats tells me NO. If a real hitter is to show up, more trades are coming.

doubleplayer - July 8, 2008 reply

MURTON CAN HIT

He’s just not been inserted into a major league lineup on a regular basis.

Dan

Murton is ok

but his overall numbers are only as good as they are because he’s had such a high percentage of his at-bats against lefties. He’d probably be about average as an everyday LF, which certainly has some value, but with almost no chance of being a real star.

mikedaviswhereareyou - July 8, 2008 reply

Wasn't that what we said about B Keilty?

Murton can hit lefties

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

And we like to call him Kid Ginger over in Chicago...

I've never heard anybody call him that

I must be listening to the wrong stations.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Strategy...

I’m thinking outloud here but was the logic behind the trade something like this:

By taking the “mystery” pitcher out of the equation, is Beane trying to pump up Blanton’s and Duch’s value by taking supply of the market?

Now that the Cards HAVE to make a move, do they overpay for our other pitchers?

NO Cards

I don’t think the Cards will want a part of us after we fleeced them in the Mark Mulder trade.

We would want Ellis.

So that one fleecing trumps the Cardinals fleecing of the A’s in their previous trades? I don’t think so. If they see a deal that improves their team, they attempt it.

I don't think that's it, brenarlo.

But good theory.

i wouldnt be surprised if beane keeps the trade lines open...

espn said we’ re interested in holiday, fuentes and tavares from the rockies.

not necesaarily in a deal, but who knows what mr. beane will do.

my condolences, A's fans...

...looks like we’ll be the ones making a run at the Angels.

oc - July 8, 2008 reply

you want joe blanton?

all it will take is bradley and hamilton. and feliz. and andrus.

kentucky joe?... naaaahhhh...

oc - July 8, 2008 reply

it was worth a shot

OK

Now that was funny.

was it?

oc - July 8, 2008 reply

You must first begin outscoring your opposition

MrIncognito - July 8, 2008 reply

So does Murton play every day is my question?

Everyone says he just needs regular AB’s…where do those come? I guess no more Brown and Cust DH’s every day

That's my feeling

And it also probably means that Frank Thomas is done for a long time.

Tyler Bleszinski - July 8, 2008 reply

They probably got Thomas' MRI results

in between last night’s game and the trade, huh?

that’s what I’m thinking, too.

Well they also moved M.Sweeney to the 60 day

I'm less optimistic about Chavez after this deal, too

On the other hand, there’s less need for him to rush back now.

Look guys

You can justify the trade all you want. Not a Harden fan? Fine. Not a Gaudin fan? Fine.

But we two players who might- might – be a part of the team that we expect to contend in 2010.

That’s pretty bad no matter what you think of Harde and Gaudin.

What?

Please repeat without the missing letters.

I'm using a crappy keyboard

My sincerest of apologies.

Gaudin would be

I totally think Gaudin would of made that 2010 team. he’s only 25. I don’t see these other guys doing anything. There’s no buzz around them and I would be able to slow my heart rate down if Vitter came in on the deal, but no. I’m going to be stuck here and have a stroke at the ripe old age of 24

Harden + Gaudin = 3 Years

Gallagher + Murton + Patterson + Donaldson = 23-24 years of service time.

Gaudin is going to be a Free Agent after 2010. Harden would have definitely been gone after next season.

I’m willing to bet anyone that Harden is put on the DL this season. His shoulder is shredded.

Do people think we’re contending this year? Too Young. Too inconsistent.

Zounds

24 years of service time? I say.

OK. The problem here is that service time is meaningless if it’s awful service time. No one gives a crap how much service time Freddy Bynum has, because he’s freaking terrible.

Well, the A’s just traded for Freddy Bynum (among other similar luminaries).

Oh god.

Are we going to trade Ellis now? < sob >

salb918 - July 8, 2008 reply

don't even say such a thing!

God damn it.

Why would you write that where I can read it right now?

Ummm...

prepare to be crushed when it happens. He’s not even going to fetch much. I doubt Rent-a-Ellie is worth one-quarter what we got today.

I don't understand how you can trade one of the best pitchers, if not

the best pitcher, in baseball, and get almost nothing in return. Beane got completely screwed over in this deal.

Erin6 - July 8, 2008 reply

Amen

Harden is a thoroughbred. Did they trade Big Brown because of his cracked hoof? And worse, trade him for some bags of oats?!

Exactly

Big Brown all the way, baby. Triple Crown.

Oh wait…

I'd still settle for dead last

as opposed to a bag of oats (or four bags of oats)

Would you settle for being put down,

euthanised, shot, as opposed to a bag of oats? This isn’t a cracked hoof. This is breaking his leg, pulling up lame.

I like Matt Murton and Gallagher

Murton has a career MLB OPS of 814.. Not to shabby if you ask me. Hes right handed and has a great OBP. Gallagher if put into the rotation is a good starter so far this year. Not great but serviceable. Patterson is back up for Ellis if hes not signed or is traded. And the young catcher we got is a former first rounder who walks alot and has a career minor league OPS of 844. So its not all bad guys.

Do they mean Josh Donaldson?

That’s the only Donaldson I can find on baseballcube. His stats are actually pretty good.

Crosbino - July 8, 2008 reply

.276 OBP in the Midwest league?

Methinks you’re misreading the stat line.

I was looking at his 2007 numbers

Which were very good in A- ball. The problem is, I just noticed, that he’s 22 already. nevermind …

Crosbino - July 8, 2008 reply

Donaldson = 2007 - 48th Overall Selection

Corey Brown – 2007 – 59th Overall Selection.

I wonder if the A’s were hoping Donaldson would slide to 59th in last year’s draft???

now, i know why duchscherer talked about a contract extension yesterday.

With Harden on this year's team

I felt hope. Without Harden it will be hard to go to the games without that feeling.

I think Gaudin asked for a trade

He must have been pissed about losing his playing time. Something was definitely up there. He didn’t start anymore, even though his numbers were good. And he only came in during garbage time. I don’t know … I think something’s up there. More info to come

Crosbino - July 8, 2008 reply

He has to be pleased ...that's for sure.

Gaudin's

attitude is a major factor in this deal. Think about Linden, Halsey, etc. Beane doesn’t like it when guys bitch to the media. And his performance in the bullpen this year has pretty clearly been uninspired, even if he was basically asked to pitch in meaningless situations half the time

Beane really does

like to ax guys who bitch or act up. It would have been nice to have Bradley’s batting stats on the team this year ey?

I think there's a big difference.

Gaudin was unhappy, but I don’t think his attitude was the same as that of Linden or Halsey.

iglew - July 8, 2008 reply

if true, he had to of known he'd be reinserted once the trades began

Anybody wanna explain to me...

...how we got Gaudin as a throw-in? Doesn’t seem like Beane’s M.O., does it?

Dan

Probably because Harden may not make it through the season.

So Gaudin is an insurance policy on Harden??

That would be my guess.

Talk about knee jerk reactions

Every single one of us would have made this trade at the beginning of the season. What’s changed? 3 months of baseball? Where are all stat heads who constantly talk about sample sizes and regressing to the mean? The guy’s been unhealthy for 3 years. So what does a 3 month healthy streak mean? In my optionon its nothing more than that…a streak.

GusanoQuemador - July 8, 2008 reply

I good sir would not have been in that camp at the beginning of the season

this is awful value. I wouldnt havve done this for chad alone at the beginning of the year.

Norcalfan10 - July 8, 2008 reply

.....

...... searching…. searching…

Searching for your reaction after the Mulder & Haren trades.

I think Billy Beane knows what he is doing.

Def not every single one of us.....

Why do people here like to speak for others?

I would not have made that trade at any point.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Ok how about this

All of us who didn’t think Harden could stay healthy (which was 99.99999% of us) would have made that deal. The Cubs would have NEVER made this deal at the beginning of the season. Meaning we capitalized on his streak, meaning we sold high, meaning this is a good deal.

GusanoQuemador - July 8, 2008 reply

There's 10 million people on this site?

No, dude

You’re not getting it.

People aren’t mad because the A’s traded Harden. They’re mad because the A’s traded ANYTHING for this dreck.

+1

succinctly put

No, dude

You’re not getting it.

You’re not as good at player evaluation as you think, let alone as good as a MLB front office (one of the best ones I might add)

GusanoQuemador - July 9, 2008 reply

bah

I’d take Gaudin over Gahllager any day. I refuse to spell his name right as I dedicated all my typing ability to learn how to spell “Duchscherer”

I'm the black gallagher bitch!

SoCalA'sFan - July 8, 2008 reply

Hmmm

On paper it does not make much sense let’s hope there is more in the works

ChrisB - July 8, 2008 reply

maybe the Cubs threw in Wrigley for our Fremont location

Just a reminder.

Billy Beane is smarter than all of us. So imma just reserve judgement till things calmb down.

Agreed, but I need to feed my rage!

also I’ll expect a personal phone call from Beane explaining the trade in detail…...within the hour! It’s not like there are many of us left that he couldn’t take the time to do it!

Don't know if he's smarter

but he definitely is a better GM.

Maybe so

but he still traded Hudson for what amounted to a cheap bag of balls.

DMOAS - July 8, 2008 reply

Take the Hudson, Mulder, Haren, and Swisher trades in the aggregate

Considering what he got back, and the subsequent performance and cost of the outgoing players, and get back to me with the overall success rate.

This thread is just more proof that people, in general, are not that intelligent.

You’re all acting like sheep.

Take a step away from your computers and take a deep breath. Things are going to be OK.

Your team just dealt an oft-injured pitcher and an inconsistant starter/reliever for four young, inexpensive players.

Even though you can’t grasp it, this deal is a good thing.

Embrace common sense and reasoning…You can do it!

NO!

Gaudin was awesome and I’ll always remember him as being badass, even when he was playing hurt for an entire half of a season and that time he saved several small kittens from a burning house.

We traded an oft-injured pitcher

And a young, inexpensive pitcher for an inferior young, inexpensive pitcher, two AAAA players who are 26 and 26, and a catcher who can’t hit in A ball.

Embrace common sense and reasoning…..you can (hopefully) do it.

Gaudin is not inexpensive

$1.775 Million is not minimum wage, while the A’s have plenty of guys who can put up similar numbers for minimum wage.

kenarneson - July 8, 2008 reply

Josh Donaldson = Small Sample Size (2008)

Donaldson was the 48th Overall Selection in last year’s draft. The A’s drafted Corey Brown 59th Overall. Young Catchers and Young Starting Pitchers have a lot of value.

Gaudin is not young in MLB Years. This is his 4th Season.

You haven't really explained how it's a good thing

You haven’t given us anything to explain how Gallagher is even going to be as good as Gaudin. Or how Murton is more than Aaron Cunningham will be in two years. Or how Eric Patterson stays on a major league roster. Or how a 22 year old who can’t handle A ball is a prospect.

Go on, explain.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

It's a good thing because the Cubs are going to win the World Series.

What, that’s not good enough for you?

I think I need to move

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Wonder

If the commish is throwing in something for the A’s trouble. World Series advertising just got more expensive.

I'm embracing something...It's...it a "flag"!!!

Good call.

oblique - July 8, 2008 reply

I'll see your flag, and raise you a troll ban.

Indeed

WTF is it so hard for people to discuss, to debate, to argue, about baseball, without getting personal and resorting to name calling and insults?

My initial reaction is that

a) Beane has called off competing this season – a good call given our place in the standings and the teams ahead of us

and

b) Beane has moved the competing timetable up by about a year, from 2010-2011 to 2009-2010.

salb918 - July 8, 2008 reply

salb,

I like that . At least it’s positive thinking.

Agreed

A perfect call on A…..We weren’t going to win the division or the wild card.

I've got it

This is payback for giving them Kendall last year.

+1

{laughing}

Next transaction: Duke claimed on waivers by Dodgers

Congrats on acquiring the Red Headed Rainbow Rider!

I love you, SWL

We already had a unicorn rider!

Apparently it's not enough...

We have the fever…for more unicorn…bell…

designatedforassignment - July 8, 2008 reply

unicorns: the next undervalued commodity

Go forth and acquire them Billy!

Really? Who is the other mystery unicorn rider?

Mark Ellis.

No, Ellis is the unicorn

now we have someone to ride him… okay, that sounds really, really wrong.

DMOAS - July 8, 2008 reply

...Facials?

Kyli - July 9, 2008 reply

Combined QOTM

Yeah, just from that, I already don't like whoever that is.

"had"? no! We already have a unicorn rider!

present tense, present tense, we still have Ellis, we still have Ellis…

< hides in corner >

We've got a Unicorn war on our hands

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQJD1ura7G4

Or with their unicorn powers combined

The A’s will be UNSTOPPABLE.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Mark Ellis made this...I think

Peeping Tom - July 8, 2008 reply

There's only room for one unicorn in this here Coliseum...

Kyli - July 9, 2008 reply

I so hate Billy Bean right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hate crime

i hate him, i hate him, i hate him, i hate him!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will never forgive him for doing this!

i was making a joke

you spelled beane wrong. billy bean was a gay player

i noticed that, but i'm really upset right now!!!!!

This is such a good straight line

as opposed to a gay GM?

TheLC - July 8, 2008 reply

**Beane

God Damnit, if this was Beane, Go to Soccer NOW!

If this was Forst, WE WANT BEANE BACK!

Zonis - July 8, 2008 reply

matt murton is better than kielty

for the last 3 years his OPS vs righties is .771 kielty’s is .638

Hell the only player with a better ops than .771 on this team right now is jack cust!

totoum - July 8, 2008 reply

beautiful

I did see that

Looking at last year’s BA book. And I’m guessing Murton won’t strike out 4 out of 5 at bats like Cust does.

Better against RHP than Kielty

and probably a better fielder than Cust.
WOO-HOO!

now that's 100% baseball!

batgirl - July 8, 2008 reply

It's going to be a lively game thread tonight...

I guess the A's management is playing the...

“How low can the attendance go?” game this year.

If these guys that they got are not .300 hitters then this trade is a complete bust.

Oaktownflav - July 8, 2008 reply

just saw the news on sports center

I exclaimed loudly in a room full of non-baseball fans…Gaudin had said a week or so ago that he was convinced he would be traded…sorry to see him go

not surprised about Rich, but I can’t say I’m “happy”...

I’m not familiar with the four coming from the Cubs, but I’m sure we’ll hear plenty

OaklandSi - July 8, 2008 reply

Ok, so, I just took a bunch of deep breaths

Maybe Beane isn’t done. Maybe Patterson or Donaldson are part of a plan to get somebody else (not necessarily for this year).

There was talk in one of the Harden threads about a three way trade. Maybe this is going to turn into a three-way deal in a roundabout way. Maybe Patterson is headed elsewhere. Unless Ellis is about to be traded, I don’t see how Patterson fits. He’s just not as good as a few other guys.

Everybody else, talent level aside, at least has a logical spot somewhere.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

My thought immeadiatly was...

we are not done. I think it is very likely Gallagher is either here to compensate for a pitching spect we might trade or he might be flipped himself…there is more to this story, there has to be, because from snapshot value standpoint he did not get full value for the cost of these guys…if it works out (which it might) great…but its still not full value…i also do agree with the poster who said that dealing Harden this early is also meant in a small sense to increase the value of blanton and/or duke.

throttle mathius - July 8, 2008 reply

I think everyone is missing the point here..

And that is that this means Emil Brown will SURELY be DFA’d.

CoryC123 - July 8, 2008 reply

at least we knocked over the sunsphere

known as Emil Brown… pretty small consolation.

gdub171 - July 8, 2008 reply

Fear his DFA-resistant technicolor dreamcoat

Never say his DFA is certain

There better be a trade announced in the next hour that the A's have dealt people from this deal

to another team for some good players, making it a 3 team deal.

Zonis - July 8, 2008 reply

It just doesn't seem like this will happen

I’m hoping…but did you see that press release? Deep background on each of the players…like the A’s wanted us to embrace them. They’re not going anywhere is my guess

I can't see that happening

since, with the arguable exception of Murton, none of the players is the kind of guy a contender picks up for the stretch run at an inflated price in exchange for prospects they should have held on to.

gaw man.

losing harden and swisher in a year sucks.

vooya40 - July 8, 2008 reply

At least Eveland sucks. No, wait...

Beane

Dear Billy Beane,

I know you said we’re in a rebuilding process. However, how the ** can we rebuild when we don’t have talent to begin with, because it’s all been dealt away?

Sincerely,

Reality

CSUChico - July 8, 2008 reply

We don't have talent here?

I feel like we're always going to be rebuilding

without that whole ‘playoff run’ part.

At least til Fremont.

GAHHHH.

Kyli - July 9, 2008 reply

I'm shocked at this deal myself..

too muh given up for too little in return as the consensus here seems to think.

HOWEVER, if Rich is truly injured on the verge of being injured (which is basically every minute of his major league life), this might be more a a salary dump for next year when the a’s are on the hook for 7million.

So in the end, we can view this as really a Gaudin + salary dump for next year in return for the little cubbies we received.

At least that’s what the optimist in me has rationalized.

ST - July 8, 2008 reply

Next year was a team option

If delicate flower Harden is hurt again, you decline the option and nontender his ass.

So wait, what's your overall opinion of this move?

In the other thread you thought I was overestimating Harden’s value. Isn’t this about what you expected?

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

For Harden maybe, everyone is pissed they added Gaudin too

Hell no

This is a bunch of crap. The Mulder package was probably 2-3 times the value of this.

Oh, and Gaudin was added.

So then what would you have wanted?

Because me saying Vitters, Murton, Marmol, and maybe another guy (or two, if Gaudin is involved) seemed to be asking too much.

I agree this is crap, but I just wonder what you would’ve done.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

I'd rather have traded both of them straight up for Josh Vitters

I wouldn’t have done that, mind you, but I would rather have seen it.

agreed

you can’t make up in quantity for quality.

my read on trades is that you should always get the best player in the deal. not sure that happened here.

stm72 - July 8, 2008 reply

I'm comfortable with the trade...

Harden pitches 6 innings max… and gets hurt a lot. We got their 3rd and 7th best prospects. Most of here have wanted Murton for a long time. He should be the everyday LF from now on.

If Blanton wasn’t traded last offseason because Beane couldn’t get value for him… and Harden commands more than what Blanton could get… then i trust that Beane got all he could.

3rd and 7th best prospects in a very weak system

lenscrafters - July 8, 2008 reply

So what...

We toil around 5 games back until our pitchers hit their “wall” and end up around .500. That’s where I saw this team headed even with Harden. This trades dumps salary… gets rid of a headache… and gives us some guys to plug in right away and some guys to hope on.

If anyone else was offering more Beane obviously wouldn’t’ve made the trade.

Right because adding guys like Gallagher, Murton, et al improves the team

You improve the team by trading good players for good young players. You don’t improve it by trading good players for AAAA roster filler crap.

And for chrissakes, we don’t need to dump salary!

How about this: You actually go and RESEARCH these guys we got back. And then you come back and I dare you to say that you still like this deal.

lenscrafters - July 8, 2008 reply

You probably should take your own advice

Compare Gallagher’s stats, in the minors and majors, and his age, with Gaudin’s. If Gaudin is a good player, so is Gallagher.

Look at Eric Patterson’s stats in the minors. Compare his OPS and OBP with the league average OPS and OBP in each of those leagues.

Hypothetical...

What if Duke got traded? Does he still go to the All-Star game? For which team? And if he did go for the AL, you can’t use him, right? He’d have a pretty good incentive to throw the gopherball..

NYC A's Fan - July 8, 2008 reply

Didn't that happen with Beltran a few years ago?

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

huh

apparently so – he got sent to the NL in the Dotel trade and played for the NL. weird.

NYC A's Fan - July 8, 2008 reply

That would be just plain stupid!!

I think I'll wait for Christina Kahrl to tell me if I should like this trade

before making up my mind.

kaweahkaweah - July 8, 2008 reply

Random annoying thing

Nobody in Chicago has any clue how to pronounce Gaudin.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Neither did we.

Can't be any harder than "Fukudome."

And less risky

Cubs fan here...

...how do you pronounce it??

go-DAN

Thanks

That's Lee's nickname...

Oops..my bad...he nickname is Rodan...

ga-OO-dine

GOO-dain

GAW-deen

This isn't helping...lol

joe-DINE

Chad

Which is, by the way,

“KKHHKKHHahd.”

go-DAN

GOW-din

guh-OOH-din

GOD-in

... an alcove?

Then there’s their other song, “Richard Harden’s Dead”

Just-go-damnit

It's Go-Dan

vignette17 - July 8, 2008 reply

Go-Nad

go-Dan,

right?

For what it’s worth, I think you all are getting a quality bat in Murton and Gallagher is going to be stellar. Use EPat (we’ve called him pesky, but obvi do whatever works for you) at 2nd not the OF(OMG, he was not great in the OF) Not sure on Donaldson.

I’ve always liked the A’s, good luck!

slcathena - July 9, 2008 reply

Right

As to Murton/Gallagher, hope you’re right. Very much so. Yes.

nevermoor - July 9, 2008 reply

I think health is the major driver behind this

Obviously, Harden’s less “right” than we hoped he’d be (but knew he wasn’t). I have suspicion that perhaps Gaudin’s health following his dual related injuries last year wasn’t what it could have been, either.

With Chavez, Thomas, and Sweeney all DL’ed and their collective future as A’s up in the air (yes, I’m going there with Chavez), it really wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Duchscherer traded—and Ellis extended. I have a suspicion that Beane is placing a premium on durability as a “skill that can’t be taught” moving forward.

(don't look, Poppy)

I don’t think the inclusion of Patterson, who played mostly 2B in the minors, bodes well for keeping Ellis around.

According to Sickels, he is a bad fielder.....

And a bad hitter

But he does run fast.

Maybe Beane and Wolff are gonna start a track team.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Come on

I understand the frustration, but Eric Patterson is not a bad hitter, especially for a second baseman. PECOTA projects him at .264/.335/.433 in a neutral ballpark. He hit .320 with a .517 SLG in AAA this year. He’s 25, and there’s some upside there.

Again, frustration is fine, but don’t be totally irrational about the incoming players.

I dunno

As always, I defer to everyone when it comes to info on prospects, but from what I’m seeing about Patterson, he’s kind of like a cross between Jemile Weeks and Rajai Davis.

I'm a Cubs fan first

A’s fan second, and I’ve always felt that Patterson was undervalued. He’s not as shitty as everyone here is making him out to be…if he can play a passable second base, he’d be a decent starting second baseman with a little bit of upside to be more.

You know...

I’m coming around on patterson a little bit too.

I think the reason we don’t like him is because we’ve heard his name in non-flattering platoonish/non established roles, and he’s not a sexy #25 prospect (OMG!). Put it this way- Daric Barton has been a top prospect for years now, and he’s struggling now in MLB. Patterson is 25- still could improve, and not that bad right now for a 2b.

I’d bet all these players are good change of scenery candidates too…Chicago media and poor roster management make the Cubs a bad environment for developing prospects. (Felix Pie etc.)

Indeed.

Look, to everyone who says that Corey’s younger brother is a shitty hitter: go to BBRef, type in Eric Patterson. Go to his minor league stats page. Now look at his year to year OPS. Click on the links for the league that he’s in. Look at league average OPS in that league. Look at the position Eric Patterson plays.

Now come back and tell me that he’s a shitty hitter.

You're right, he's got some skills.

Pesky skills. ;)

slcathena - July 9, 2008 reply

My MLB.TV Subscription is worthless!

To think I just resubscribed 2 weeks ago thinking the A’s were going to be healthy enough to make a run and would be exciting to stay up late (here on the east coast) and watch the games.

With out Harden or Gaudin going every 5th start I don’t know if we can keep the pace!

I feel your pain

:-(

Dude, how do you think I feel I have Directv's Extra Innings!

Are the A's not worth watching if they aren't in contention?

I have extra innings and Harden or no Harden, I’m glad I get to watch the A’s almost every night.

Erin6 - July 8, 2008 reply

Yeah, but it wont be the same...Rich was my favorite!

Exactly

I loved it when we played the Phillies! My friend at work (a huge fan) and I watched teh Harden day-game at work. I loved making comments like “and another wiff of the bat by Howard!”

You'll get over it

I went through the same thing when the A’s traded my favorite player to the Cubs after the 1971 season. I’m still here.

OK

Not to rub salt in the wound, but that was unwise.

:(

And thus begins the career of a (in the future to be) injury-free Superstar, Rich Harden.

This is a salary dump at best. Honestly, the best “prospect” we got was Patterson. The other guys have already proven to be VanPoppels (if you don’t understand that one, you’re either young or not an A’s fan). Not only that, but we have what, 300 AAA-level outfielders now? Also, we gave up a 25 year old with 5 years MLB experience in Gaudin.

Here’s hoping BB surprises everyone again.

coberloco - July 8, 2008 reply

Van Poppels

So Sean Gallagher is a Van Poppel? Really? TVP was a first round pick and obviously was absolutely brutal. Gallagher was a 12th round pick and while he hasn’t been awesome, I’d say he’s doing ok out of the gate.

I'll Give You 12th Round vs 1st Round

Then again, we didn’t give up any players for TVP. As far as contributions, not much difference between TVP and Gallagher (and before you quote stats, the point is, they are/were both crap).

coberloco - July 8, 2008 reply

Not only was Van Poppel a 1st round pick

but there was tons of debate before the draft about whether the should be the #1 pick (who ended up being a guy named Chipper Jones). And the only reason Van Poppel lasted to the A’s pick (which I think was #14 or something) was that he was slated to go to UT (like his hero, Roger Clemens) and was assumed to be unsignable.

The only Van Poppel involved in this deal is Billy Beane.

booo

I AM SO FREAKIN SAD RIGHT NOW.

gotgreen - July 8, 2008 reply

Random question. If Harden had been chosen to pitch in the all star game

would he now be allowed to pitch for the NL?

Erin6 - July 8, 2008 reply

good question

someone answer please!

already answered above

yes. check out Beltran.

Gaudin's Way Over-rated

Look at his K/BB ratio year to year. This is another smart move by Beane if you appreciate the fact that Gallagher’s 22 and Murton’s 2006 season was fairly impressive

JJUlyss - July 8, 2008 reply

you have to consider that he played 1/2 the season injured.

Considered, makes little if any difference

That might explain half of one season. How does it explain the others?

Yet Embree and Brown stay around

AWESOME

jshaw25 - July 8, 2008 reply

well this sucks because i really enjoyed rich

who was finally staying healthy. But as usual , in beane we trust. I have a feeling beane’s scouts and himself saw something in one or two or three of those players that if given big league time, they will be good players. Just have to wait and see.

He’s done this time and time again, I always feel terrible when it happens but then think he’s a genius later. I hope the trend continues

TheGreenGoldCrush - July 8, 2008 reply

Does this apply to the Hudson trade?

It's a no win situation for us A's fans.

Why? Because Harden’s history meant his trade value was already low which meant A’s were not going to get anything “Big” in return, and if Harden happpened to get hurt and miss the season before he could be traded, we would be upset that we got nothing for him. Really, there is no way it would have worked out perfectly for us fans.

Sadly it will work out for us fans if Harden's

arm falls off his next start. Sad but true.

Right!

And that’s not good either.

Not true

Best result for us is if Harden remains healthy AND the guys we got turn out to be good.

The trade is already made. Having the guys we gave up go bad doesn’t make it any better for us. It makes it worse, because it lowers our reputation for future trades.

iglew - July 8, 2008 reply

And if Harden ends up pitching well for Cubs?

We feel like poo too.

MobiusKlein - July 8, 2008 reply

Doesn't matter unless he beats the A's in interleague/the World Series

The real issue here is that the guys they got in return aren’t good enough.

thejd44 - July 8, 2008 reply

Not quite true

Harden’s success is the opportunity cost for the players we got back in this trade. If Harden is an unstoppable force this year (and next year!), this trade burns for a long long time.

Part of what made the Mulder trade historic for me as a fan, and made the Hudson trade ok too, is the fact that both those guys were never again as good as they were here.

not true

we totally would of accepted Beane hanging onto Harden if he couldn’t get the right deal and instead decided to make a run (which as only 3.5 back we could of done).

It’s losing it and not getting anything of substance in return that really killed us.

Right, but...

...if Beane holds onto Harden, and Harden goes down for the season after the trade deadline, then the A’s are left with nothing. It’s a no-win situation.

Billy Beane got bent over

and now we the fans have been bent over

SO since you bent us over Billy, Get rid of the real dead weight on this team

Blanton
Hannahan (Not worth a pack of cigs)
Embree

and on top of that they bring that stiff Braden back up.

Trainman - July 8, 2008 reply

so who do you think is going to fill in for harden now?

and chad’s relieving?

vooya40 - July 8, 2008 reply

devine probably comes back soon, and ugh! Braden

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/news/probable_pitchers.jsp?c_id=oak

No help on A's site

MobiusKlein - July 8, 2008 reply

According to the Chronicle article,

Sean Gallagher is slated to start for the A’s Friday.

McMillinBr - July 8, 2008 reply

Give him some run support

You’ll probably get a quality start. The kid is good.

slcathena - July 9, 2008 reply

how about lenny dinardo?

vooya40 - July 8, 2008 reply

Braden was called up

also from the Chronicle website (see the A’s press release at the bottom.)

McMillinBr - July 8, 2008 reply

Well, I'll miss the both of them...

especially Rich. Here’s wishing them the best in Chi-town.

jonahbartlett - July 8, 2008 reply

And to think we'd always wanted Murton.....

Yeah, for like Embree

Tough move, but probably the right one

The offense wasn’t going to get it done in the long run and Harden may be at his most valuable now given that he’s made about a dozen starts in a row.

I’ll miss Harden, but as big an injury risk as he is I can’t blame Beane for getting something for him while he can. The risk factor is just too high.

Gaudin could be a tough loss, but there’s nothing to really guarantee he’s going to be a stud anyway.

Hopefully the people Beane picked up will help in some way.

I would feel as you do...

if Gaudin hadn’t been thrown into the deal as well.

He hasn't exactly been impressive this year.

Though actually, better than he usually has been. More or less average.

Slusser: A's worried that Rich Harden's velocity was down last couple of games

and they were worried he was going to lose value…if he was to get injured

But I’m still upset and sad and furious!!

Pinella is missing it!

He says the pick up a great piece of their bullpen in Gaudin!

Hey, mr. fire and ice! Gaudin is #2-3 starter on most clubs. put the man in the rotation! He’s gonna roll the national league son!

He would DEFINTELY be the Phillies #2 right starter right now...

I really think Beane coulda done better dealing them separately.

I just hope the players we got for these two

fine young pitchers are better than people on this site seem to think that they are.

So is Gallagher replacing Harden in the rotation?

Or possibliy Gio G?

Yet Another Bobblehead to take down from the Shrine

I think I am numb right now. I want to be sad, or mad, or something. But I honestly don’t know what to think. I am sure it will sink in when I see Rich and Chad in their new Unis.

They will be missed, that is for sure!

BobbyCrosbysGirl - July 8, 2008 reply

Cubs Fans Are Wrong

Here is the point: Murton clearly fell out of favor with the Cubs and Patterson wasn’t going to sniff the 25-man roster. So, those two should have been throw-ins at best.

Then, Gallagher is a solid player and you get a C prospect… C prospect are the worst type of prospects. They almost never make it to the majors… it is such a crap shoot.

So, as far as I am concerned, this is a horrible trade now, and 3 years from now. It is a gimmee. I don’t care how much of a risk Harden is; at some point, he is worth the lack of a return. Plus, the Cubs get at least a solid 5th SP / LRP in Gaudin. Horrible deal. And I like Gallagher somewhat.

At the same point in time, the Cubs were the ones that clearly wanted Harden for quite some time, so this must have been the best deal available… that sucks and that is why I think the A’s should have kept Harden anyway… unless his health really is that bad… sigh…

bjk15 - July 8, 2008 reply

Pending a physical, right??

{Crossing fingers}

Eggman - July 8, 2008 reply

You're hoping that Harden fails the physical and lowers his market value?

::: confused :::

I'd almost hope he fails it

It is a simple risk/rewards thing here… the reward here for trading Harden is pittance. The risk for keeping Harden is high, but that potential reward is worth the risk.

So, if his value is this low already, then why even bother with such a weak market? Half of a season of Harden is not that far of a cry of a full season of Gallagher, imo…

bjk15 - July 8, 2008 reply

I understand the frustration

But it’s really 1.5 seasons of Harden, next year at $7M for:

5.5 seasons of Gallagher at pre-FA costs
3.5 seasons (wild-ass guess) of Murton at pre-FA costs
5.5 seasons (guess) of Patterson at pre-FA costs

This is slightly overstating it – there is some opportunity cost involved (roster sizes are not infinite, after all) – but this isn’t as bad as it seems on the surface.

I like you Jivas

haha keep posting…we need someone to sell these guys.

If harden can't pass a physical why do you want him?

My burning question

Was Zebulon part of the deal?

i'm probably fooling myself but...

murton seems like he’ll definatly improve our offence,and who know’s maybe Sean Gallagher will surprise us à la Danna Eveland and Greg Smith.

totoum - July 8, 2008 reply

I am sad.

drmmerchk - July 8, 2008 reply

Me too.

oblique - July 8, 2008 reply

how does our rotation look like now?

Duke
Blanton
Eveland
Smith
??? Gio? Mulder? jk…

Gallagher

Gallagher fills that 5th spot now.

mos def

gio is not ready. two quality starts in AAA does not equal a call-up. no other candidates.

If Gallagher turns into Dan Haren 2.0...

I’ll be alright with the deal… I’d say chances of that are 1/10 at best.

gdub171 - July 8, 2008 reply

The sky is falling

I realize most of these are knee jerk reactions and people will calm down, but for now:

this has to chase

brown out of town. hidden goldem miracle.

Glomar - July 8, 2008 reply

mlbcontracts already updated

Impressive turn around: http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/oakland-athletics.html

At least I have 20 fond memories

damn you Beane!

You want PayPal, or are you gonna be there at AN Day for a more ritual public settling of the agreement?

My AN Day plans are not resolved yet

I have an extra ticket, if that's an issue

That ticket would be swell

I think I shall attend.

call it even?

that sounds fair

and I didn't even have to throw Gaudin in to seal the deal!

Who would have thought a year ago...

that Blanton would be here longer than Gaudin, Haren and Harden? I guess the same thing was said about Zito with Hudson and Mulder gone. Blanton should have gone to the cubs instead of Gaudin.

Oaktownflav - July 8, 2008 reply

Lucky me

I was in attendance for Harden’s last game as an Athletic on Sunday. Too bad it wasn’t what I had hoped for.

WiscoFan - July 8, 2008 reply

NEW THREAD OPEN

here

{gasp!}

What next—lineup widgets in your game threads?

mikedaviswhereareyou - July 8, 2008 reply

ok

Not that this hasn’t been said a million times already in this thread alone, but I need to work this out on the screen so I can see this makes sense at all:

1) What did we trade?

An ace, and one of the best power pitchers in baseball, with a regular history of repeatable injury.

Analysis: I think Rich’s ability, when healthy, is established, but lets look at the injury potential. On one hand, he is often injured, and has contributed less than a #4 pitcher over the last few years in terms of VORP because of those injuries. On the other hand, I have seen nothing indicating that his injuries are definitely related to his pitching motion. Additionally, Rich relies on velocity to get people out. I have always been concerned…what happens to Rich when his velocity goes down? In a jam, he always turns to a 97 mile and hour heater…what does he go to when it isnt there? How good is a 2 pitch pitcher when his fastball is 92-90? Good, but could he dominate without the velocity? This indicates to me that 1) he is not going to age that well, and 2) any injury that saps his velocity, even if he remains an effective pitcher, is going to really hurt his effectiveness.

Conclusion: We traded 50% of an ace. I used a highly secret proprietary formula to reach that number. You can argue the number, but you have to admit, we traded RIch Harden’s potential reduced by a percent chance of re-injury which is non-negligible and likely high depending on who you talk to. Whats 50% of an ace? Joe Blanton?

2) A young pitcher, effective, but not dominating, with bad peripherals.

Analysis: Guadin has, what, a number 3 ceiling, and a bottom of being alot less than that.

Conclusion: If we average what Chad could possibly be versus what he might, regrettably be, we have a #5 starter average in terms of value.

3) Cubs gave us…

And this is where I really dont know what we got. Galleger might be a 4 or 3, so replaces Guadin, and the rest of those guys for 50% rich Harden.

Yeah, we got hosed.

Billy, tell me I am missing something.

What would you be saying...

If Harden was taken out of the game by the Training Staff on Friday Night? It’s gonna happen. And, he’s never out for just 15 Days. It’s always 2 months+. Always! Then what???? Look to sign Emil Brown to an extension this Summer?

Rich Harden

At least I’ll be able to breath every 5th day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion

Has Beane let us down yet?

I know, I know. This sucks. Another A’s star leaves for another team. It’s hard to watch this. Apparently it’s harder for actual A’s fans in the Bay Area, since nobody ever shows up. Empty seats yet again. Any ways, I’m way off topic here. With all the trades and all the Free Agents leaving, hasn’t Beane proved himself in finding the right talent to replace departing talent??? Hasn’t he??? When we were all pissed off about Haren, who did we get in return?? Only the two awesome future outfield prospects and a pretty darn good left hander. When we traded Mulder, didn’t the same thing happen then? We got that previous named pitcher and a future prospect at First Base. Yeah. We did. Now, people of the Bay Area, get this new stadium moving so we can keep these stars and build the next great dynasty WITH Billy Beane! Thank you. Go A’s and good job Billy. Rich will be on the DL by mid August.

BoiseA'sFan - July 8, 2008 reply

Great trade

Harden is pretty much worthless. I bet Gallagher is more valuable than Harden THIS YEAR. And to the guy supposedly quoting pecota, how the hell does Pecota say that Gallagher will have a 5.00 era, 1.5 whip for the next 5 years. That sounds like BS.

As Man - July 8, 2008 reply

Ummm

Subscribe to it yourself and look

I pasted the entire forecast chart in the second thread.

PECOTA projections are (of course) not set in stone, but the fact that PECOTA so projects is unassailable. Maybe next time think before you call me a liar.

nevermoor - July 9, 2008 reply

See