Well, I’m going to try to wade through the damage done by our “set-up men” over the last two nights, painful as it may be. The abridged version of this sad story is that on two consecutive days the A’s got enough from their starting pitching and offense to win two huge games against the division leaders, yet fell horribly short in the most disgusting of ways, and the fact that this happened twice in less than 24 hours is enough to frustrate even the most stalwart A’s fan right now.
In defense of Geren (feel free to debate at will the decision to pull Eveland in the sixth), despite the full ‘pen, he is not working with a lot of options right now, which is why you hope that the A’s could have managed to find enough good relief pitching to take at least one of the games. To me, it seemed like Geren hedged his bets to save pitching for both games, and I absolutely think this was a mistake. I would have rather blown out our entire ‘pen last night to get the series win, and not worried about today’s game at all. It doesn’t get worse than losing both of these games; the A’s had a very real chance of being 3.5 games back at the close of this series, and are now 5.5 back, and in danger of falling further behind next weekend.
But while Geren’s bullpen moves can be scrutinized in multiple threads until we are tired of it, the real truth is that the only relief pitcher who has provided any actual relief has been Brad Ziegler, and he can’t pitch every inning. The A’s were screwed last night when Harden only went five; had he pitched the sixth, Geren may have left Ziggy in for both the seventh and the eighth to get to Street. Instead, he used one of his everyday guys, and Embree failed. But who would you have rather had in that position? Brown got shelled in his last outing, Foulke appears to be done as an effective pitcher (see: today’s game), Casilla can’t stop giving up homeruns (see: today’s game), and Street can’t effectively pitch two innings. Even Gaudin gave up a run today in his inning. Put plainly, with the lone exception of Brad Ziegler (who was untouchable), the bullpen failed the A’s the last two days in every way, and I’m not sure there was a combination of pitchers that could have won either of those games, unless our manager was willing to risk Harden for an additional inning (NO), or our rookie relief pitcher for three innings and 30+ pitches (NO). Be angry all you want, but when pitchers that you have to count on to get to the closer aren’t doing their job, there isn’t anything a manager can do about it. But the truth is that the bullpen cost us not only the series win, but possibly the series sweep, and considering their success over the first half of the year, this is a bitter pill to swallow.
Eveland pitched a good game (even striking out the side in the fifth), despite his early hook. He allowed the first Angels’ run to score on a wild pitch; not exactly what the team was hoping for when they started the day, with the hot-hitting Suzuki getting a day off, and Sweeney, R maybe (hopefully) just resting his ankle. The Angels’ scored their second run in the second with a runner on third and the A’s infield in, but although Eveland got the ground ball, Crosby threw it away at home (in an interesting fielder’s choice call) to score the run.
The A’s got on the board in the fourth, as Crosby singled, but Emil Brown ruined a perfectly good double (which scored Crosby on the wild throw) by getting himself thrown out trying to take third. In later at-bats, he would fail to score a runner from third with one out, and almost hit into a double play. But he still finished the day better than Cust, who seemed to strike out in every at-bat in this series.
The sixth inning brought temporary happiness for A’s fans, as seldom-played Donnie Murphy worked a 13 pitch walk to lead off the inning, and after Rajai Davis doubled, Mark Ellis singled them both in; Davis seemingly running through a stop sign. Crosby moved Ellis to third with the first out of the inning, but Brown struck out, and failed to score the A's fourth run.
But it wouldn’t matter much. Exactly like last night, the A’s didn’t hold the go-ahead run for longer than ten minutes. After Eveland got the first out of the sixth, Hunter smashed a 3-0 pitch for a double. Eveland got the second out with no movement from the runner, but Geren hooked him after 99 pitches (and he wasn’t happy) in favor of the Foulke/Kotchman match-up. For those of you playing at home, yes, that is the LHP removed for a RHP on a LH batter.
To say that the match-up didn’t quite work would be a slight understatement. Foulke copied the playbook from last night, and not only did the tying run score, but he gave up a two-run homerun (Rivera’s first) to put the Angels up 5-3.
To add insult to injury, the Angels teased the A’s in the seventh, as a botched double-play pulled the A’s within a run. Of course, the A’s offense failed for the second time on the day to get another runner home from third, but the bullpen (this time Casilla/Gaudin) made sure that the game wouldn’t end with a one run loss (Final Score 7-4). I guess that’s something.
Gonzalez, Ellis, and Crosby had pretty good days at the plate, but it’s hard to muster much joy for them, especially when Crosby had to leave the game after hustling out a single in the eighth. I’m sure he’s day-to-day. Wes Bangston made his major league debut, and it was uneventful; he is still looking for his first hit (0-4 on the day). I don’t blame the offense in this series; they did enough to win, and Eveland certainly did his part. You can what-if it to death; the A’s certainly had their chances to score more, but really all of the blame lies with Foulke, much like Embree last night. The A’s had a better-than-average chance at the series win (and possibly a series sweep) had either game got to Street, and it just didn’t happen. And for the life of me, I can’t imagine it hurting more than it does against the Angels. Why the A’s seem to reserve the meltdowns for when it really counts, I’ll never know, but there is a lot of baseball left, and the season is not over.
The A’s need to regroup on the plane, figure out who can be used in the bullpen, and pray for some deep outings by their starters. Right now, I’d use Ziegler in the high-leverage situations, even for two innings, and maybe even regardless of the L/R splits. I'd also figure out if Casilla and Brown are really healthy, if Foulke can be shipped out when Devine returns, and if Travis Buck can possibly replace Emil Brown.
It doesn’t get any easier. The A’s limp into Chicago, home of the blazing-hot White Sox, looking to right the ship a little bit, and stay in the race.
I hope everyone has a happy holiday weekend and that things look better on Monday.
0 recs | 139 comments
The series against Chicago isn't looking good.
mikev - July 2, 2008
probable pitchers for the ChiSox series:
The Duke vs Vazquez
Blanton vs Buehrle
Smith vs Floyd
Harden vs Danks
details
SwisherThresher - July 2, 2008
I'm more worried with the probable offenses, not the probable pitchers.
mikev - July 2, 2008
I never want to see Foulke in an A's uni again!
That guy is getting worse and worse, and he’s more and more synonymous with FOULKING the A’s!!
oaklandSMASH - July 2, 2008
Nice couple of days
The A’s blow late-inning 1-run leads to the Angels on consecutive days, losing both games.
Chavez is put on the DL, and might face another (presumably season-ending) surgery.
Harden left his start early and “said he had a dead-arm kind of feeling, which he has had in the past and which is normal for pitchers around midseason.”
Crosby hurt himself beating out an infield single.
Thomas’ rehab might be delayed.
Someone has apparently kidnapped Embree, Casilla, and Brown, and replaced them with Rincon, Mecir, and Rhodes.
Ugh. I need a drink.
andeux - July 2, 2008
This might be my new sig...SO TRUE.
Someone has apparently kidnapped Embree, Casilla, and Brown, and replaced them with Rincon, Mecir, and Rhodes.
baseballgirl - July 2, 2008
a nightmarish sig line if I ever dreamt of one.
ak_A - July 2, 2008
why did geren take out Eveland?
Why?
MobiusKlein - July 2, 2008
Because Geren is now loss-prone
He made horrible moves two nights in a row, and since these games cost double, he lost us four games!!
oaklandSMASH - July 2, 2008
Do things ever look better on a Monday?
Seems like we’ve played a lot of good teams lately, even if the Phillies were on a losing streak they were still in first place.
[shrugs] Tomorrow’s another day. We’re still doing well, we’re over .500.
paradox - July 2, 2008
Giants aren't good
Even though we were stupid to taunt them.
WaddellCanseco - July 2, 2008
What a difference two days make
We need to do something to avoid the funk that could end our hopes this season. I vote that we go out and sign Bonds and maybe MacPherson (assuming Crosby is hurt). Even if they don’t perform it could have a placebo effect and at least it would get Emil out of the lineup. Hopefully Murphy can fill in for Crosby and show some of the promise that got him a .897 OPS at AAA. Murphy still is only 25. I don’t get why he hasn’t gotten a shot; he deserves it.
vignette17 - July 2, 2008
New AN shirt
SIGN BONDS NOW!!
oaklandSMASH - July 2, 2008
[rolls eyes]
paradox - July 2, 2008
Can't we just agree it's been discussed sufficiently
and put it to rest?
Nico - July 2, 2008
not on days like today
oaklandSMASH - July 2, 2008
LOL.
Agree? On anything? Puhleeze.
pam5981 - July 2, 2008
True, but the reasons to sign him keep getting stronger
1- Cust is hitting horribly.
2- Chavez is out (Chavy also was DH often this year)
3- Thomas was expected to be back by now.
4- The offense keeps getting worse and he won’t cost us other players.
5- His playing time probably won’t impact our young prospects (unless you consider Cust a young prospect).
6- I and others have commented that its starting to look way too close to 2007. Bringing in Bonds will stir things up.
7- What do we really have to lose. Its not like we will be forking out millions of dollars. Its not like we couldn’t use the attention of the press and sports world.
Yellowhorse - July 2, 2008
30 teams have declined to add him,
presumably even for chump change (if that’s true) – there has to be a reason. Whether it’s that he’s too rusty, not mobile enough to run the bases, there are secret orders from Selig, whatever – every team would improve to add the Bonds we know to the lineup and every team isn’t so much as talking with him. It’s not an “A’s” thing, obviously.
Nico - July 2, 2008
Correct, however due to the recent bad news of injuries and other problems
I am more and more pushed to saying yes.
It wasn’t a good idea early in the pre-season when he wanted millions.
Also, when Thomas was brought in it made no sense.
Actually, in the early stages of thomas and Sweeney’s injury when it looked like they would be back soon it didn’t make sense.
Now it does.
That being said you are probably right. There may be several reasons behind the scenes not to bring him in.
However, the A’s probably make the most sense for several reasons.
Yellowhorse - July 2, 2008
that's LOLanding type of crazy, grasping at straws blog talk!
ak_A - July 2, 2008
Amen!
Why on earth is Cust still playing? I posted a while ago about replacing him with Bonds and received a lot of flak. Jack Cust is just plain doo-doo.
And I’m tired of hearing Fosse say how Cust has got such a “great eye” at the plate! If he has such a great eye, why does he lead the world on called 3rd strikes?!
Please, please, PLEASE sign Bonds!
petitceebee - July 2, 2008
Sigh
Let me try a different tack here.
You know Russell Branyan? The guy who has hit 11 home runs in 29 games for the Brewers? You know what he did last season? He hit .196 and got waived by three different MLB teams before eventually finding himself out of work altogether.
OK. Russell Branyan is a worse hitter than Jack Cust.
Guys like Branyan, like Cust, like Pat Burrell and Ryan Howard, “three true outcomes” guys, are invariably streak hitters. Burrell was damn near run out of Philadelphia in the first half of last season. Since then? Well, he’s basically been the best hitter in the NL, or damn close. Now Howard’s slumping instead. OK. Deal with it.
It’s the price you pay to do business with that kind of bat. The price really isn’t that high, or at least it wouldn’t be if the fans weren’t constantly whining about it. The alternative is a lineup filled with weak-kneed, pussyfoot singles hitters like Erick Aybar. Those lineups suck. There’s a good reason why the Minnesota Twins have had problems scoring runs this decade—because of their front office’s obsessive fetishization of batting average.
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
Today might not be the best day
to be making cracks about Erick Aybar’s power.
But, yeah, Cust has had a couple of bad slumps and he’s still been the A’s best hitter overall (not counting Frank Thomas, who has only played in a third of their games) by a fairly wide margin.
andeux - July 2, 2008
Ryan Sweeney has been the A's best hitter
IMO
Cust is a mistake hitter who walks a lot and has power.
Ryan Sweeney is developing into a very promising hitter
Trainman - July 2, 2008
Cust is a mistake crusher.
He’s been easily better than Sweeney, who may well develop into a good hitter, maybe more effective than Cust.
WaddellCanseco - July 2, 2008
Cust is a bit overrated, IMO, by the stat folks
who gush at his OBP-with-some-HRs combo. When you balance out the hot and cold streaks, you are left with a guy who hits around .240 with an OBP around .360, and around 25-30 HR power. That’s basically Nick Swisher with less contact (that is, if Swisher were a bad LFer instead of a good OFer and good 1Bman, but we’re not talking about defense). Cust is good, but he’s not great. Only in the A’s lineup does he look like someone you’d really consider batting in the middle of the order. He kills the A’s when he’s cold.
Nico - July 2, 2008
Cust
is a perfect 6-hitter in a lineup. If you’re counting on him to lead your offense, as we are, then you’re in trouble. If all of our hitters were healthy you could have Chavez, Thomas, Sweeney, and then Cust. That would be a good lineup. But with Cust occupying the slot that you normally associate with the most reliable hitter in the lineup it’s only ever going to lead to nightmares.
Helloooo 1st - July 2, 2008
I agree. Cust would be fine
batting around 5-7th on a decent hitting team. However, he cannot be counted on to carry a team.
HE is not the major problem with the team’s offense.
Without Chavez, Sweeney and Thomas we should add another strong hitter.
Yellowhorse - July 2, 2008
Cust's career OBP,
even counting his sucktacular first few years of plate appearances, is .387. There is a huge value difference between a .360 OBP and a .387 OBP. The difference is probably 10 runs a year, or putting it more graphically, the difference between league-average and playoff level.
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
But when are those 10 runs going to come? While he is struggling you
don’t see the benefits of that , and since the rest of the team isn’t hitting, what good is Jack doing sitting on 1st base, when he is just walking and striking out. He has a very high .obp, but I bet his rs/g is low relative to others who have a high obp.
theblackpearl - July 3, 2008
True Outcomes
A phrase I’ve never heard, but then again I don’t read the detailed baseball blogs. What are “true outcomes” guys and why are they invariably streak hitters?
richwol1 - July 2, 2008
Means they basically only ever do a couple things
In Cust’s case he only ever walks, strikes out, or hits a homer.
Helloooo 1st - July 2, 2008
Right
The three true outcomes—walk, K and home run. “True” in the sense that they reflect truly on the hitter and pitcher, and don’t involve the defensive abilities of the pitching team.
(OK, actually a HBP is a true outcome too. But let’s not get fussy.)
Why are those guys invariably streak hitters? Hm. Good question. I think part of the answer is that because they tend to have low batting averages, the damage they do is highly concentrated. I think part of it is self-fulfilling prophecies by managers who write them out of the lineup on days when they’re in a perceived slump and may unintentionally prolong it by getting them to press or giving them inconsistent playing time.
I doubt that’s a full explanation, but quite frankly I don’t have a full explanation. It’s an empirical observation rather than a deduction.
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
Thanks
I suspect the low batting averages and the streakiness are inter-related. If you had a player that kept up the pace all year, it would wind up being a career year - and if the pace continued for an entire career, you’d get someone like Mickey Mantle, who finished his career with a .298 average but also had an on-base percentage of .421 (to go with 536 homers) and remains one of the career leaders in strikeouts. In Mantle’s last year, when his knees were so bad he could barely walk, he finished with a .237 average but had an OBP of .385. I don’t know for a fact, but it wouldn’t surprise me that he was streaky that last year, and that when he was hot, he was very very hot (he finished with 18 homers, but that was 1968, the year that all the pitching records were shattered) and when he was cold, he was very cold.
richwol1 - July 2, 2008
It's possible to sustain a high average with high strikeouts
but unless you’re hitting Bondsian numbers of home runs, the only way to do that is by having a high average on balls in play. Those guys tend to be power/speed guys like Curtis Granderson and Grady Sizemore (and like Mantle before his body imploded, for that matter).
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
Ha ha
Paul, when I read a reply like this one, and I imagine what you must be feeling as you write it, I can truly understand why you never frequent the game threads.
(And if you were considering it … seriously, don’t.)
iglew - July 2, 2008
Good analysis, baseballgirl, though I'm not sure
why you so quickly dismiss Ziggy, a submariner who hadn’t had a heavy workload lately, throwing 30+ pitches on a day he was pitching as well as he’s ever pitched (apparently he even said he was surprised at how good his fastball was – normally mid-80s, was getting up to 90). I think that was our best inroad to a series win. Today’s loss, however painful, was a blown lead in the 6th inning – there were a lot of outs yet to get. Last night’s we were poised to grab.
One more for your list, andeux: The Giants are closer to first place than the A’s are.
Nico - July 2, 2008
Zig's been up in the pen a lot this week
And it still a rookie (only a couple of years or so into this new arm move). I just didn’t think it was smart to run him out another inning, even though every bit of me wanted him too (I was at the horrible game).
baseballgirl - July 2, 2008
That's "is still a rookie"
And with twelve more games to go without an off-day…?
baseballgirl - July 2, 2008
Huh
You know, someone noticed a couple of weeks ago that the A’s bullpen performances were wildly out of line with what would have been expected from them coming into the season. And that, in particular, Keith Foulke had peripherals suggesting an ERA in the mid-4s, not the mid-2s. That someone was roundly mocked for being a defeatist and for suggesting that the team maybe didn’t want to commit too heavily to “contention” for this season.
What do you know, since then Foulke’s given up 3 jacks and had his ERA rise a run and a half, and the bullpen has blown several late leads. Hm. Sounds like someone was right when he said that the team was playing over its head.
And what do you know, turns out that someone was me.
It’s worth remembering the words of Fight Club—this team is not a beautiful and unique snowflake. It is not immune to regression to the mean. It does not have 4 relievers with true-talent ERAs under 2.00.
The next week and a half should tell the tale of the tape. If the team isn’t any closer by the Break, it’s time to move to Phase 2 of the rebuilding project.
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
I'm a big defender of yours...
...and I think you are one of the smartest people on AN. But you are not helping your cause out with posts like this. People will remember when you are right, especially because you are smart, and you’re usually right. But people will root against smugness every time.
You were probably 100% right about Foulke, and the A’s stole many, many innings from him in April/May/June. I’m sure the A’s managment will see it, and possibly let him go when Devine comes back. A month ago, we would have figured Ziggy would go back down, but I can’t see that happening right now.
baseballgirl - July 2, 2008
Yeah, you're probably right
I blame the Imp of the Perverse.
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
+1
The fans are sufficiently hurting to make it not a good time for an “I told you so” post.
Joey C. - July 2, 2008
You weren't really "roundly mocked"
There were all of two people arguing with you about Foulke in this thread, and a couple of others here about the bullpen as a whole (no one mentioned Foulke specifically). And none of those people really qualifies for “AN spokesperson” status.
On your other point – you’re right, this week could well be the tipping point leading to some more veterans being traded away for prospects, in the same way that some bad news about injuries led to Phase 1 over the winter. Whether that turns out to be the case probably will have more to do with the medical news on Chavez, Harden, and Crosby than with the not-terribly-surprising struggles of Embree and Foulke. But as you also said in one of those threads:
Right now many of our most obvious candidates for trades are either struggling (Embree, Foulke, Blanton) or possibly hurt (Harden and Crosby). So even if Beane is determined to throw in the towel on this year, that might not result in any moves until much closer to the deadline.
andeux - July 2, 2008
Oh, yeah, absolutely on the latter point
In fact, other than the real short-termers (and none of them really has any value at this point—the only free agent to be with trade value is Ellis, and he will probably be extended) there’s no rush to trade anyone. It might well be that the correct “rebuilding” move is simply to do nothing.
What I really mean is “establish that no prospects will be traded away for short-term upgrades.”
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
where were youse guys defending me on this point in the game thread? :)
monkeyball - July 2, 2008
I defended you by not arguing with you
WaddellCanseco - July 2, 2008
and I appreciated that
monkeyball - July 3, 2008
In a way
the best move to compete and the best move to rebuild is to do nothing. If these guys can’t show themselves capable of competing they hold no real value (as been correctly pointed out) but if they show they can compete, there really isn’t anyone who we could acquire (including a certain 40+ year old guy who hasn’t played since last september and who shouldn’t be counted on to maintain what he’s done) without jeopardize our future and short of an absolute sure thing to the post-season/world series, playing for this season isn’t worth the next 3/4+ seasons.
DMOAS - July 2, 2008
Agreed - I think Beane never intended to buy
simply because he only intended to wait – to see how his players held up to the grind of being near Larry Davis and Clarence Cockrell. To trade up only to learn that Harden and Chavez were suddenly not feeling so great? Big mistake. One thing I’ve learned from the A’s is that it’s pointless to guess what moves will be made in a week because even the A’s don’t plan ahead, knowing the move is usually determined for them. Same with “buying” and “selling”.
What to expect? If a team wants a player enough to overpay, Beane will do it, and if not he won’t. Which isn’t breaking news, nor is it depending on a time of year.
Nico - July 2, 2008
Easy to Blame The Pitching
When they only had the best ERA in the sport entering today’s game. Yes, the bullpen has regressed—but the simple fact is, as has been true for a couple of years now around here, injuries and underperforming hitting are the big culprits. No Thomas, No Chavez, No M Sweeney, No Swooney recently, No Casilla (until recently) or Devine, and poor hitting by Barton, Hannahan, Cust and Brown.
But I agree with PThomas—unless things get a lot better the next ten days, it’s time to embark on the next phase of rebuilging.
windyfelix - July 2, 2008
Yes and yes.
Offense is the culprit over all…but for these specific games, the bullpen didn’t get it done. It happens.
baseballgirl - July 2, 2008
you know
I know moneyball’s been done to death, but isn’t one of the tenets to use your best pitchers in the high-leverage innings? Throw Street in the 7th and see where the game goes. Sure, all the media outlets would skewer Geren, but how is that different from getting skewered by bullpen meltdowns?
Okay, okay, never going to happen…
whaxed - July 2, 2008
Trouble is, the only way later innings are going to be lower leverage
(and therefore suitable for “lesser” arms) is if either the A’s score or Huston gives up runs, and I know which I’d bet on ;-)
green star oakland - July 2, 2008
Along those lines, this loss wasn't really avoidable,
ultimately, because either Foulke or Casilla or Gaudin was going to have be used at some point to protect the lead and all failed. The 6th inning is just too early to have to go to the pen to protect a one-run lead – it’s exactly why Geren correctly tries to get his starters through 6-7 innings if he possibly can, even if they’re struggling in the 5th or 6th. Except today when he suddenly decided Eveland was done after 5.2 IP and 99 pitches. (?)
Nico - July 2, 2008
Yep, I would have let Eveland go; he was better than the 'pen.
Harden was 100% the correct call last night.
baseballgirl - July 2, 2008
No question on Harden -
and if my lip-reading was accurate, after the 5th inning he told Geren, “I can give you one more,” to which Geren obviously said “Thanks, but you’re done today.” Keeping Harden at 90-100 pitches is far more important than winning any given game, especially on a night when he is laboring and not feeling great.
Nico - July 2, 2008
Blessing in Disguise?
It’s July 2nd and we’re 5.5 games out of 1st Place. We might be 8+ back by the All-Star Break. And guess what??? I’m OK with it. This team needs more hitters like Ryan Sweeney and Carlos Gonzalez. So, it’s time to trade Harden, Street, and Blanton (if anyone will take him) for some young talented hitters (preferably a SS & 3B). Trade Foulke & Embree for even more yount talent.
It sucks that we lost to the Angels because we keep using guys (Embree & Foulke) in situations where are young guys (Brown, Casilla, Gaudin, Ziggy) need the experience.
This team isn’t making the playoffs as currently contructed. The A’s need more offense and healthy/young bodies.
Colorado Fan - July 2, 2008
are = our
Colorado Fan - July 2, 2008
Here's the problem: Contention will always rely
strictly on having excellent starting pitching – not good, excellent – because it’s the only equalizer to the “more resources” enjoyed by the A’s competitors. Those itching to dump Harden, or especially Duchscherer, should consider how much the A’s would need to add offensively in order to win with Blanton, Gaudin, Eveland, and Smith at the top of the rotation. Cahill and Anderson are a ways away, and Gio probably is too. I’d overpay to sign a plus-hitter on the FA market before I’d dismantle the rotation to try to get better.
Nico - July 2, 2008
Pat Burrell is a free agent to be...
right handed slugger… from the Bay Area… walks a lot…
Come on, admit it makes way too much sense…
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
what would you think of signing Manny if the Red Sox (stupidly) decline his '09 option?
monkeyball - July 2, 2008
I don't think I'd want to sign him to a 5 year deal
I’d rather trade for him after the season and then pick up his option. This would also be better than giving Burrell a five year deal
WaddellCanseco - July 2, 2008
I like that plan
He’s also got an option at the same price for 2010.
monkeyball - July 3, 2008
Manny is both a. in decline and b. a fruitcake
He’s going to be overvalued.
Of course, Pat Burrell’s Captain Clutch act this year is incrementing the dollar signs on his contract expectations meter as we speak. I keep rooting for him to hit one of those atrocious slumps where he can’t hit anything for a month to pull his numbers down a little.
I guess we can always hope for an A-Rodian playoff series. Best case scenario, he makes some game-losing error in a playoff home game and has to go into voluntary exile from Philly.
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
Sadly, Burrell seems like one of those guys
who is bound to get overpaid on the FA market. And since he is past his prime and is having a great contract year, it’s probably best to let someone else take him on because he’ll command a salary beyond his worth.
Nico - July 2, 2008
I know, I know, it's a pipe dream
Like Fukudome before last season. I’m allowed a few, right?
(And to continue today’s theme of self-congratulation, how much better would the A’s be today if they had signed him?)
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
If the A's had signed him he'd be on the DL by now.
green star oakland - July 3, 2008
what does (b) have to do with anything?
Barry Bonds is (a) in decline, fragile, and been inactive for 6+ months and (b) an unrepentant jerk who has often alienated teammates. (Manny, FWIW, has nearly always been staunchly defended by his teammates.)
Economics of the contracts it would take to sign either (or both!) of them aside, really, what does (b) have to do with anything?
monkeyball - July 3, 2008
and as for the "in decline" ...
Yes, he’s dropped down to a sub-.900 OPS the last year and a half. After OPSing .950 or better for 12 straight years. And you’ve castigated folks for describing Eric Chavez as being in decline?
monkeyball - July 3, 2008
I'll take Burrell in a NY minute,
if he’ll sign a 4 year deal (or less). It means either he or Cust has to play the OF, but it’s also worth it. Let Gonzalez, R. Sweeney, and Buck/Cunningham fill out the OF.
R. Sweeney
Ellis
Chavez
Burrell
Gonzalez
Cust
Crosby
Barton
Suzuki
Yikes – that team might actually score some runs and win some games.
Nico - July 2, 2008
Yount talent ?
green star oakland - July 2, 2008
We wish
andeux - July 2, 2008
What I want to know is--
why so many problems on the bases-especially3rd? if davis didn’t run through the sign we don’t get that run—last 2 games guys keep screwing up running
ChefSeve - July 2, 2008
last few games I mean to say
ChefSeve - July 2, 2008
Tony D is in a slump
Perhaps he’s a “streak coach.”
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
Well he is a "two true outcome" coach
(safe and out).
Nico - July 2, 2008
Splunge
andeux - July 2, 2008
Getting Close
I guess someone else has actually been watching as we continualy struggle on the
basepaths and never seem to be able to maximize our scoring chances. At times we seem incapable of just making contact when we need to move runners over, There was a post earlier in the year that mentioned losing games we should have won. I can count three of those this week, starting with Saturday Night’s game that we gave away. The bull pen meltdowns have been ugly enough, but bonehead play on the bases and
totally brain dead at bats have hurt just as much if not more
skeeter1 - July 2, 2008
But I think the A's are actually doing better on this overall
Stealing bases into scoring position, and scoring in innings where they get two singles – this happened twice the last 48 hours. Hannahan and Barton bunting for hits, Raj going ape-doo-doo on the bases, etc. Just not enough contact when we need contact – which Geren said, and was blasted by some for saying.
Nico - July 2, 2008
Geren blasting the players for not making contact
was well warranted IMO. Hope he blasts himself for his questionable pitching decisions the last two days. I did initially think that Foulke might get the job done pitching to Kotchman but that was before I realized he had not pitched in like 12 days.
I like the aggressiveness the A’s seem to be adopting this year so I agree totally with what you are saying.
Trainman - July 2, 2008
I have to blame you for the loss yesterday -
didn’t you promise to go, with your unbeaten streak, to Tuesday’s game?
Nico - July 2, 2008
LOL My Business partner was supposed to go with me
but his little girl that he adopted got sick so he had to take her to the Doctor.
I am glad I didn’t end up going Tuesday, I would have been arrested for Murdering an A’s pitcher and manager.
Had this happened, we may not have seen Foulke today. Somehow I don’t think they have MLB TV in jail.
I am going to make up for it next time they come and go to at least two of the games. I will keep the win streak in order. Losing is not an option for A’s management when I go to the games. (LOL)
God, I hate losing. No one likes their favorite team to lose and it is especially aggravating when it happens to be the Angels. I must have had 5 phone calls today from Angels fans that I know. Of course when we won on Monday night, none of them called me. I showed class by not calling them. I told them I let the team speak for itself.
Trainman - July 2, 2008
I don't mean to sound like I take baseball too seriously,
but your business partner should have let the girl hitch a ride to the hospital with a stranger so that you could go to the game and cause the A’s to win.
Nico - July 2, 2008
I should have suggested the Doctor meet him by the 5 Freeway and El Toro Rd Ramp
and he could have rolled her out the door as he drove up here. Then he could have had the Doctor drop her off at the Stadium.
The only problem with this would have been if the Doctor had been an Angel fan, he may not have left alive if he got there late while Embree was pitching.
My business partner thought about getting a T-shirt than said No hits, No problem and worn that with his Dodger hat to the game.
Alas, his team suffers from scoring disease as well as ours.
Trainman - July 2, 2008
Not pitched in 12 days?
that’s a big Red Flag – how can that make any sense
Why have a roster spot for a guy who does not get used for 12 days?
MobiusKlein - July 2, 2008
He might be nursing an injury or
He might not be very sharp
WaddellCanseco - July 2, 2008
I just checked it out
He pitched on the 28th against SF. Someone else had said 12 days.
He pitched on the 20th and the 28th. So this is the second time he pitched in the last 12 days. He sucks this year but I am sure it doesn’t help him with his control. He was getting behind everyone and it sure became evident when he had to come in the zone how bad his stuff was.
Trainman - July 2, 2008
Perspective!
It’s JULY 2ND! Let’s all take a breath. We have, in the past, looked sucky one series and then great the next, especially when everybody on AN is worried. Nows the time for the A’s to cool off a hot club and kick some White Sox butt. Bummer way to lose both games, but on the bright side, the SP looked great and so too the offense. Now if the bully can right itself and perform as it has most of the season, we’ll be a okay. Don’t fret, Nation and BBG! The good guys will prevail!
A'sfansince1970 - July 2, 2008
I'm certainly not giving up on anything
just because we lost two to the Angels and sit 5.5 out. However, the loss of Chavez, possibly Crosby, and the delayed return of Thomas, along with Devine’s slow progress and the clear indication that Casilla has re-channeled Jairo Garcia, make me worry that the next two weeks will see us slip back to .500 and out of the race. We’ll see. 3 out of 4 in Chicago would be nice, and is possible – the White Sox are due to cool down and we have Duke/Harden going in two of the games, Smith in another…
Nico - July 2, 2008
Perspective
Agreed, it’s too early to call it.
But:
1) Chavez on the DL—The whole point of Chavez getting surgery and waiting this long was so he could get back in the second half, get acclimated, and be a “deadline bat” of sorts. Even assuming he’s not gone for the rest of the season (and it kiiiiiiiind of sounds like he is), how long would it take him to get back into a groove if he came back? ‘Til August? ‘Til September?
2) No clear word on Frank—The dude is kind of old for a ballplayer, which tends to lengthen the healing process, and has an injury that even he admits is potentially dangerous and lingering. When can he come back? And how long will it take him to get acclimated?
3) Regression—The A’s are due some serious regression in both phases of pitching (starting, relieving). Can it be counterbalanced by more “meanish” hitting? With guys like Donnie Murphy figuring to get more starts in the coming future…
4) And all the other little background stories—Crosby’s status? Buck’s refusal to hit in favor of curling into the fetal position? The fact that the A’s have 2, perhaps 3 prototypical players out of 8 positions around the diamond?
I’m not saying the A’s absolutely cannot pull it off this season. What I’m saying is that this is a rebuilding team with very little room for error and one hell of a lot of uncertainty. To posture as “buyers” when so much depends on everything going right (and the A’s and Angels switching luck for the rest of the way out)... I’m concerned.
Joey C. - July 2, 2008
Gaudin should be used as a long reliver not as a closer
And why that lineup? Strange choices and bad results…
Ran - July 2, 2008
BBG
Nice to see you last night.
My boys ended up getting a couple balls from the relievers in the bullpen.
After the game, we bumped into a guy who used to play with the Rockhounds a few years back and is real good friends with Harden.
He said he was waiting for him and that Harden would probably sign their balls.
A few minutes later, Harden showed up and signed their balls and a couple baseball cards. Pretty nice. Crosby signed a couple cards for them too.
easyraider - July 2, 2008
It was nice of Harden to sign their balls
You think they’ll ever shower again?
Nico - July 2, 2008
If not trade for a big bat
We better go for a big free agent in the offseason and keep are talent unless its a trade u cant say no to
buckfan6 - July 2, 2008
I doubt we'll go for a big free agent
It’s never been the A’s style to overpay knowingly for players, and that’s what the FA market is all about.
Nico - July 2, 2008
We have to add a big bat
simple as that, we have no one in the minors yet
buckfan6 - July 2, 2008
uh, which balls did harden sign?
and does he have a good lawyer?
MobiusKlein - July 2, 2008
I was going to make some comment earlier today
but I decided not to. I
ak_A - July 2, 2008
Nico
I knew that was coming…......and I am whimpering with laughter!!!!!!!!!!
:))))
mrod - July 2, 2008
The relievers gave away their balls?
That explains a lot about the performance in the last two games.
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
Haha!
Dangly partshunter - July 2, 2008
of course the interwebs ate my angle brackets
<phil ken sebben>Dangly parts</phil ken sebben>
hunter - July 2, 2008
Hmm...I can somehow relate to what the
Red Sox are going through right now (as their bullpen is gascanning away a 4-1 lead, currently 4-3, bases loaded, nobody out).
Nico - July 2, 2008
Meanwhile, as we pine, desperately, for more offense...
...let’s not forget about the Texas Rangers, who have watched a 7-6 lead turn into a 15-7 deficit tonight. There’s a reason the A’s are ahead of the Rangers in the standings this year, and every year, and it’s pitching.
Nico - July 2, 2008
Evan Longoria is beating Boston
Now imagine if we had someone like him in our lineup from the right side. He has to be the ROY hands down at thus stage imo.
Trainman - July 2, 2008
Drool.
Nico - July 2, 2008
Drool about their whole team
They’ve got some ballplayers, man. They will be very tough to beat for years to come.
windyfelix - July 2, 2008
Well, if you feel bad about the A's pen
the Boston Pen went down in a smokey spiral this evening. And they are actually SUPPOSED to win this year.
MobiusKlein - July 2, 2008
Hm.
You make a great argument for cutting/sending to the minors every decent player on the team, then playing replacement level dreck for the rest of the year.
(That’s how you get guys like Evan Longoria, BTW.)
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
Absolutely.
The A’s have the pitching to stay in it.
They should make a minor trade of a pitcher for another hitter once Devine gets back.
Also, at this point I say bring in Bonds.
Yellowhorse - July 2, 2008
yea this also took 2 out of 3 in yankee stadium
they can score runs whenever they want, must be nice
buckfan6 - July 2, 2008
Fire Geren Now.
The bullpen is blowing games for the same reason the starters have great ERA’s, Geren’s quick hook. When you’ve got starters who rarely go beyond the fifth inning, you over-use the bullpen. In the short term, that makes the starters look better than they are, and in the long term it destroys the bullpen and the team loses games.
Maybe Tony D is a better manager than he is a third base coach. I say fire Geren and get Tony D off the field.
FarkeyD - July 2, 2008
That's kind of funny, considering how much grief
Geren gets on AN for not having a quick enough hook. Isn’t it possible that the main problem is nearly all the relievers on our current roster suck right now?
Nico - July 2, 2008
They suck right now because they're been over-used
QED.
FarkeyD - July 2, 2008
No, no I don't believe Thomas Aquinas approves of that logical construction
actually.
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
I think a more likely scenario
Is that a few of them were bound to regress some and they all happen to be picking the exact same time against the first place team. The only guy I really think has been overused is Embree, but he’s proven over his career that he can do that. His problem is old and mediocre, not overuse.
thejd44 - July 3, 2008
Yes, a first place team
The Angels had scored what, three runs in 35 innings before the Embree debacle? So Cal was worried about the Angels’ lack of hitting before he took the mound, but no longer.
Look, it’s either some huge coincidence that the entire pen is randomly sucking at the same time, or there’s a reason for it. At the start of the season, when they were all fresh as a baby’s bottom, they pitched well, and now they don’t. We’ve seen Tired Bullpen Syndrome in Oakland before, and this is exactly what it looks like.
So I ran the numbers on IP/GS for the A’s vs. the Angels, and the Angels are only one out per start ahead of the A’s right now. All the A’s starters are respectable over the course of the season, but Blanton has fallen off sharply in the last 30 days, with only 27.2 IP in 5 starts. So Blanton is personally causing bullpen over-work, and Geren can keep his job as long as he moves Country Fried Joe into the bullpen.
Statistics are wonderful things.
FarkeyD - July 3, 2008
It's not a huge coincidence
It’s a normal, run of the mill, every-team-goes-through-this-at-least-a-couple-times-a-year level coincidence.
Seriously. Nothing to see here. These aren’t the droids you’re looking for. Move along.
PaulThomas - July 3, 2008
The Cubs are loveable losers
I just don’t see how anyone can love any type of loser. I think the bullpen needs some identity finding time and get back on track
Hit4TheCycle - July 2, 2008
LOL at the highlighted portion (From Oaklandathletics.com)
Dribblers
Geren said Wes Bankston, promoted from Triple-A Sacramento on Wednesday when the A’s put third baseman Eric Chavez on the disabled list, will be used mostly at first base and as a designated hitter. Bankston, who went 5-for-11 with two doubles and six RBIs for the A’s during Spring Training, also has played third base and in the outfield. “He had a great spring for us,” Geren said. “He’s got a nice short swing, uses the whole field well, and it’s always nice when someone has the ability to play a few different positions.” ... Emil Brown, Oakland’s starting DH on Wednesday, has occasionally been taking ground balls at third base, but don’t expect him to see any time over there. Geren said Brown “must be doing it for fun,” adding that even without Chavez, he has several options at the hot corner, including Bankston and Daric Barton. ... Jack Cust, who entered Wednesday’s game batting .140 (7-for-50) with seven walks and 21 strikeouts over his past 14 games, was dropped from third to fifth in the batting order. Geren said he made the change because the Angels were starting a lefty, adding that Cust in the No. 3 spot against righties will be a “day-to-day” thing.
Trainman - July 2, 2008
If Cust's #3 spot is "day to day"
then the A’s must be admitting that his swing is injured.
Nico - July 2, 2008
Cust OPS vs. LHP: .763
Emil Brown OPS vs. LHP: .702
So a streaky player (Cust) is in the middle of a bit of a slump. That’s really no reason to bat him behind a terrible player who is in the middle (end?) of a bad career.
thejd44 - July 3, 2008
lol
this team is going to be so good in two years
SwampyD - July 2, 2008
Or will have a heck of a DL
Nico - July 2, 2008
it's time to find a replacement 3rd Baseman
SwampyD - July 2, 2008
Absolutely
EVen if Chavez comes back I am certain that the replacement could play 1B. Its not like the other backup infielders are doing much
Yellowhorse - July 2, 2008
Perhaps the Beltre rumors portended
public news of Chavy’s set-back. There’s no guarantee he’ll ever be close to the same as before. Beltre’s a little old for a “next few years” guy, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the A’s are starting, reluctantly, to look at 3B as a possible position that needs to addressed long-term.
Nico - July 2, 2008
I don't know if the bad news over the last 24 hours changed any plans
but it sure feels like a trade is coming. A few rumors with the Rockies and Mariners, etc.
I really think Beane likes to make moves. With the DR pitcher signed I think he will be looking to do something, as he is always looking for something.
Yellowhorse - July 2, 2008
I don't see the M's as a trade partner
They need to rebuild and we need to not let go of our good prospects. I would think teams like Milwaukee and Florida – teams in contention that have a lot of hitting but flawed pitching – would be the best potential trade partners.
Nico - July 2, 2008
The Brewers, I get
They seem to have about 6 DHs in their system, which is odd given that they play in the NL and aren’t even allowed to play ONE DH.
The Marlins, less so. Look below the surface and they’re actually a shockingly thin team. It’s going to be hard for them to make trades that don’t make their MLB team worse.
And there’s not a lot in their system, either. I love Cam Maybin, but, well, he just got traded as basically half of the Miguel Cabrera deal, so you can pretty well imagine what it would take to land him in a trade. Past him there isn’t much there there.
PaulThomas - July 2, 2008
Update from SF Chronicle
Harden update: The Angels were aware that Rich Harden’s velocity was down Tuesday night, an outing in which Harden said he felt he had “kind of a dead arm” – both something he’s experienced before and something not unusual among starters this time of year.
Several Angels hitters said Wednesday that they thought Harden was hurt, but Harden said after his start that he was fine physically. His fastball registered 4 to 5 mph lower than usual for much of the night. On Wednesday, Harden reiterated that he felt fine.
More fan trouble: Last year, a fan at Angel Stadium was arrested after throwing a bottle at Mike Piazza while he was in the on-deck circle. On Tuesday night, a fan was arrested for assault and battery on a member of the Angels’ security staff outside Angel Stadium after A’s reliever Huston Street had alerted security personnel about the man’s unruly behavior while Street was in the stadium concourse with his family.
The fan was unaware that Street was a player, according to Sgt. Rick Martinez of the Anaheim Police Department.
“He was allegedly inebriated and using bad language,” said Tim Mead, the Angels’ vice president of communications.
Martinez said that Jeffrey Coles of Anaheim had been escorted out of the stadium and then struck a security officer. Coles, 26, was held overnight and will be prosecuted fully, according to Mead.
- Susan Slusser
Trainman - July 2, 2008
OH MY GOSH!
I saw him get taken down! He was trying to bite the officer!!!
baseballgirl - July 2, 2008
Screw that guy.
Over the years I’ve been spit on, hit with fists, slapped, kicked, tackled, etc. and didn’t take it to personally. Bite me and I swear your dentist will have work for weeks.
alox - July 3, 2008
I didn't post in the game thread today
Or if I did, it wasn’t much. I don’t even remember at this point.
I don’t fault Geren for replacing Eveland with Foulke. You could argue that he’s been the second most valuable reliever for the team this year. Devine, Brown, and Ziegler all have better numbers, but only Brown has pitched more innings than Foulke. Devine has missed too much time and Ziggy hasn’t been around enough. For some reason people here think Foulke has been bad, but I suspect that’s a reaction to five years ago, with a pinch of “guys who don’t throw hard aren’t good” prejudice.
Anyway, Eveland was alright today, but not great. And in that situation, the numbers all suggest that Foulke is a pretty good option. I’m actually surprised Geren made the move because it was a good one that just completely and totally backfired. I’m hard on him when I feel it’s warranted (the second game of the series is all on him), but not today.
Oh, wait. he batted Emil Brown fourth again. Does he realize that Cust actually has better numbers against lefties than Brown? I’m pretty sure he doesn’t.
thejd44 - July 3, 2008
if only they'd put in Bootcheck..
for like 1/3 of an inning. We would’ve had a nice little 9-run cushion that even Foulke couldn’t have blown. Though, I’m still kinda tingly from Greg Smith’s gem on monday.
Kallus - July 3, 2008
well, if it makes anyone feel better
Earlier today, Webb and the DBacks were trailing 5-0 to the visiting Brewers. Bottom of the ninth - Mota, Shouse and Torres managed to surrender SIX runs. Fail.
SwisherThresher - July 3, 2008
Ah, your NL West leaders!
I’m sure they’ll get back to .500 eventually.
Nico - July 4, 2008
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