Athletics Nation

I thought there were two very bad decisions by Geren

(and I usually defend him).

Walking Hermida was a bad move, not because it’s always wrong to issue an IBB there but because Hermida is just not great enough to warrant it. It was predictable that the lineup might turn all the way to Uggla – in fact it was going to with just one more baserunner. Pitch to Hermida and Cantu with the breathing room of Helms. Don’t walk freaking Jeremy Hermida.

And letting Rajai Davis hit against a RHP when Barton is available? I thought there must be something up Geren’s sleeve, like Davis was going to bunt for a hit, because no way is he the right guy to have up there looking for a hit OR a walk, when you have Barton ready. What the heck was that about?

And yet we STILL almost won – you have to love the fight in this team, if nothing else. One centimeter away. (And why was Cantu guarding the line? He had no business…Grr…)

agree 100%

monkeyball - June 21, 2008 reply

you don't think running a craptastic closer who can't top 90 mph...

out there was a mistake? He threw an absolute meatball to Uggs. Hell, my kid probably would went yard on that pitch.

I don't think there were better options

You would think Gaudin but he wasn’t even going back to pitch the 10th – a starting pitcher (Smith) was warming up – so apparently he wasn’t an option to go a full inning (why, I don’t know). Casilla and Foulke were not available and Brown pitched two innings yesterday. Again, bad options tend to make a manager look bad.

I find it hard to believe Gaudin couldn't have pitched a full inning...

certainly, Street couldn’t.

Geren: “Okay, Huston… get out there an get a little confidence back after last night’s debacle.”

Street: “Sure thing, Skip.”

I wonder whether Gaudin will take Blanton's start on Tuesday

Interesting point -there has to be SOME reason

Greg Smith was going to pitch the 10th while Gaudin went only 0.1 IP.

But even so, I'd rather he pitched for the duration tonight.

He probably wouldn’t go more than four innings on Tuesday anyway.

i didnt really understand.......

walking a number 2 hitter to get to the number 3 guy either….....that was quite odd

I can understand it if it's Polanco or M. Young,

and the next 2-3 hitters are better matchups – which can happen when, say, Cust is pinch run for and Raj Davis or E. Brown is suddenly in the #3 hole – or if the #3 hitter is a real DP possibility) and not a high average hitter. But Jeremy Hermida? Come on.

I agreed with the walk, given Street's ridiculous platoon splits

Career OPS vs RHB - .466
Career OPS vs LHB - .738

And Hermida had just homered off him the night before.

I think the HR was weighed the most,

and I think that’s the mistake. Honestly, would you rather have Street pitch to Hermida or Uggla with the game on the line? Because the career platoon splits say Uggla, but…

I'm pretty confident with a healthy Street against just about any righty

and not so against just about any decent lefty. Hermida isn’t chopped liver. He does have a career 108 OPS+.

A "healthy Street" may be the key

I have a feeling he’s gutting it out because he knows the pen is barren. Which is valiant, but is not really helping at the moment.

Yes, and groin injuries probably heal better without further tweaking.

My DVR switched over at 10 p.m to record something else

How hard was Sweeney’s ball hit.

That would have been something had it gone down the line.

Oh well

Gascan lefty tomorrow

Trainman - June 21, 2008 reply

It was hit pretty hard, not a "shot".

If Cantu is off the line it gets through, almost did anyway.

Damn

As long as we can win tomorrow I will be happy.

Sweeney is and has been very clutch. Even the outs he makes are well hit. He goes the other way and is developing into a vewry good player IMO

Trainman - June 21, 2008 reply

I'm cautiously optimistic about tomorrow

either a CG win by Duke or we rout them. Either scenario is very likely, thouh

I mean neither

Meant to tell you monkeyball

In fire speak, those aren’t bolt cutters. That’s a universal key.

grover - June 21, 2008 reply

heh

Yeah, after I clipped the lock, I just stood there for a second, grinning: What else can I break into?

monkeyball - June 22, 2008 reply

the other thing

A very satisfying lesson in basic physics, and the wonder that is a lever.

monkeyball - June 22, 2008 reply

Or a master key.

That 9th inning brings back painful memory of that game against TB,

where Geren ordered the IBB to Pena, and after Devine struck out 2 batters, a mishandled double by Brown cleared the bases, and cost the A’s the game

Street just said he was slow and should have covered 1st

on the ball to Ellis and that would have ended the inning.

He also said his stuff is fine but he missed location two nights in a row and the pitch to Uggla was a little up and he burned me two nights in a row.

He also said, he has forgotten about it (loss) , it is out of his mind already.

Trainman - June 21, 2008 reply

until tomorrow, perhaps

Duke really needs to pitch CG win, the way things have been going these past two days

I'll just repeat myself

I hate Dan Uggla.

Tyler Bleszinski - June 21, 2008 reply

I'm sure many other teams' fans share your feelings

I don't - I just hate that he isn't on my team

I hate Lackey and K-Rod, A.J Pierzynski and Precious Jeter. Uggla just hits really really well.

I'd take any of those guys except Pierzynski. I prefer Kurt.

that guy is a bonafide chode that GAY JAY puszinkski........

hate em

I was liking you up until the homophobia

I guess I’ll make an exception for A.J., though.

i use LAME JAY too......

just depends on my mood.

As a heterosexual cripple,

now I’m DEEPLY offended for the first time.

Though as an ambulatory tranny, I’m still a bit more peeved about the earlier comment.

and as a Stunt double for the virgin mary, im deeply aroused.

^ I don't get this ^

And yet … it’s still funny.

iglew - June 21, 2008 reply

I don't really hate him

Just hating him these last two days.

I actually like the Marlins even though the Florida fans are so lukewarm to them. They’re building a pretty great team down there. Again.

Tyler Bleszinski - June 21, 2008 reply

fire sale will soon follow........dont worry

I dont know about a fire sell at least for a few years

as the Marlins are getting a new ball park in Miami

A'sfaninNC - June 22, 2008 reply

too bad they fired Joe Girardi

The Marlins have talented players,

but I think the Rays are more dangerous.

with a former Halo as their manager

just wanted to add that ;)

sure, they hit home runs, but their defense is the worst in the league,

if the opposing pitchers can keep the ball in the park, they are very much beatable

Marlins batting average is below average, but their slugging average is really good.

Leading the majors in HRs

All the more impressive in a pitchers park (PF 97)

I think we have a better pitching staff than the Rays,

and they beat the Marlins

the Rays can hit

but their pitching staff shutdown the marlins for two games, 7-3, 4-1

The Marlins scored 6 runs in both games in this series

Ironically, we scored the same number of runs as the Rays, but only won one game

And we're coming off a series where we outscored

Arizona 17-14! Are we leading the division yet?

also a bullpen loss in that series

Not really -

We got 3 hits and took a 1-1 game into the bottom of the 8th.

It wasn't entirely the bullpen's fault, I agree

but still a bullpen loss in a tight game

our "healthy" pitching staff...

may be better than the Rays. As currently configured, I doubt it. And, there bullpen ERA is slightly better than ours.

before or after last night?

before tonight...

ours was slightly better. After tonight, theirs is slightly better.

I don't know what to make of it

on the one hand, we have a good bullpen, ERA ranked among league leaders,
on the other, the bullpen have taken more losses than the starting pitchers, below .500

That tells you our hitters leave a lot of

1-1 games to the pen, and keep not scoring until the pen gives up a run. It’s how a Duchscherer can have an ERA of 2.08 and be only 7-4.

I understand your point

offense has never been our strong suite though. A typical A’s win is a low-soring, well-pitched, well-defended game

Correction:

The bullpen actually have an above .500 winning percentage,
Blanton himself has more losses than the entire bullpen combined.

What if you factor in losses to Blanton

when the BP allowed inherited runners to score?
(Or Emil Brown for that matter)

MobiusKlein - June 22, 2008 reply

Only two (out of ten) losses Blanton had

were due to poor defense and/or inherited-runners scoring.

What’s more troubling is that his ERA has actually gone up from April to June, allowing HRs and many BBs in his last 7 starts. Our defense has improved in the last month, but as the baseball cliche goes, there is no defense against HR or BB

javaball - June 22, 2008 reply

brokin' keyBord cutsy Pasty…

mistake?…agree 100%…Grr…freakin’ Street…pretend meatball…(and I usually defend him)…Geren’s decisions ineffective…Barry juiced…Dana Demuth burned Us…Let’s key A.J Pierzynski’s car…

Gaijin_Suketto - June 21, 2008 reply

{keys Pierzynski's car}

{keys Buehrle's hubcaps}

iglew - June 21, 2008 reply

Went to both last night's game

and tonight. Sat right behind home plate … perhaps Street is hurt, I don’t know. One thing I do know … every Marlin on the bench is salivating at the thought of hitting against him. Uggla makes him look like a T-baller. I mean, it’s one thing to blow a couple games … but my goodness, man, let’s try not to give up life-threatening line drives to every hitter. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a pitcher so hittable. The Marlins are begging he gets in the game tomorrow … I’m not. Street is really, really bad right now. Horrifically, embarassingly bad.

Vacafan - June 21, 2008 reply

chopped liver bad

Esteban hittable?!

Davis, Street, So So Lefty

Is Rajai the new starting centerfielder?

Is that pitch Street threw to Uggia the worst pitch since Niedlessfuel’s gopher ball to Jack Clark?

Will the A’s get more than 10 hits tomorrow against a very mediocre leftie?

solotar - June 21, 2008 reply

Seriously

if he can’t pitch any better than that, he needs to be on the DL. We would suffer without having a “true” closer (I must admit, bringing Foulke in four years too late scares me senseless), but not nearly as much as the false hope and bitter crushing of our souls we’re suffering now when he blows save after save.

When he blows save after save?

Including the last 2 nights, that’s THREE this season.

We’re. All. Gonna. Die.

mikev - June 22, 2008 reply

Yeah

he’s looked sharp all season, except the last two nights.

Foulke=Human Torch

tresselfan - June 22, 2008 reply

Reading the game MLB game wrap,

I got the impression that Geren was implicitly blaming Street for the loss, essentially saying that he made the right decision to use Street but Street blew it.

A managerial copout

Excerpt from the Wrap:
—
After the game, manager Bob Geren explained his simple reasoning behind letting Street go out in the ninth after having suffered an up-and-down outing on Friday. “Street’s our closer,” Geren said. “That’s what I do in the ninth inning with a tied game. I put in our closer. “He knows it comes with the territory. When you make mistakes as a closer, it’s visible because it comes in the ninth inning … and when it comes two together, it magnifies it a bit.”
—

Well, if you make a mistake as a manager, it’s also visible because it affects the outcome of the game.
And when you make two bad decisions in a row, it sure does magnifies a quite a bit

I don't particularly care for Geren's attitude

when it comes to his reasoning for running Street out there. His job is to manage the team. The only reason he should be running Street out there is if he thinks Street is his best option to win the game. He shouldn’t be concerned with hurting his feelings. And that’s what this sounds like. Street was lit up last night. He should have taken a flyer on him tonight.

alox - June 21, 2008 reply

should have? why?

Why not pitch him again?

Gotta get right back on the horse again after a fall…

I tend to think that Street is still hurting.

Thing about him, when he takes the hill you know in short order which Street you have on that night. He’s either lights out or he struggles. His velocity is down and the Marlins were hitting him hard. His control wasn’t all that great either. I think it’s a piss poor manager decision to “put him in the ninth just because he’s our closer.” Geren’s first priority in his job is to manage the team to victory….not pet the ego’s of his players.

Who should he have used?

In your opinion?

I'm really just bitching about his reasoning.

I understand that closers are going to blow leads. I expect Geren to manage the team to win, not to appease players. He had options, I won’t pretend to know the “best one”. It just irks me to hear him phrase his reasoning in such a manner. If he believed in Street as his best choice, he should have said so. If he didn’t, he should have used another pitcher. It sounds to me as if he’s deflecting criticism onto either his pitcher or his front office. That’s crap.

Well I respect your opinion Alox...

but I don’t see it the same way at all.

No problem!

Just think Bob did a piss poor job explaining himself. It sounds to me like he threw Street under the bus.

It's possible that Geren knows what

best motivates Street, and this is it.

iglew - June 22, 2008 reply

You make a good point.

I share alox's sentiments there.

Last night, Street gave up a HR in the top of the 8th inning, a blown save there. After the offense picked him up by scoring two runs in the bottom of the inning. Street came in the 9th and gave up another HR. That to me clearly shows that Street is not a good match for the Marlins right now. And since he already pitched two innings last night, Geren shouldn’t have used him again tonight. The way Geren explained his reasoning really bothers me, because it sounds as if he is not willing to take responsibility/blame as a manager, but lays all the burden on his young struggling closer.

javaball - June 22, 2008 reply

Geren said it comes with the teritory.

That isn’t stroking a closer’s ego IMO. It’s telling him that’s his JOB. To come back after a bad game and to do his job again …better.

I completely agree

rebus - June 22, 2008 reply

only if you've figured out why you fell, in this case, clearly Street was not ready to face the Marlins again

javaball - June 22, 2008 reply

Closers are going to blow saves.

It is not uncommon for them to do that and then come back the next night and do fine. That’s baseball.

I agree

and its such a small sample, who really knows what or if there was a problem the past few night.

I take issue with the velocity thing too. We only know what we see in the radar gun, I don’t thin stadium or tv guns are going to give you an accurate reading relative to “normal.” there are too many factors

Future Ed - June 22, 2008 reply

The Marlin's bats didn't lie.

Not sure about Geren or Young's style

Street struggles in non close situations. When his one inning pitch count gets high, bad things follow.

Our defense kept Eveland from what could have easily been a lopsided blowout. Our park and our outfield defense with THREE center fielders, can make a mediocre day on the mound look like an ace performance .

Florida is the real deal, lets not shortchange them.

And it sure would be welcome if we had a Dan Uggla type hitter emerge on OUR team. Tip your hat to Uggla. I joped Dan Johnson and then maybe Derik Barton could be the next A’s slugger. Oh well, just not happening for us yet. Its a colossal gap in our arsenal, and must be addressed. Florida has FIVE players with more home runs than our HR leader Jack Cust.

ExGiantsFan - June 22, 2008 reply

All that said

We would’ve won the D’backs series if our bullpen could’ve held the opposition. We would already have won the Marlins series and not had to work so hard for a W on Friday had our bullpen held off the opposition. We’ve dealt well all season long with our lack of power. Our current dilemma is our bullpen’s inability to hold a lead or tie. Now it’s not an epidemic yet, but three nights in a row (okay, one day and two nights) is excessive and a little more of a trend than I’d care to start.

The A's bullpen has been (unrealistically) amazing all season.

In fact, you could really say that about the entire A’s pitching staff.

The “current dilemma” is not the bullpen’s inability to hold a lead or tie, because the bullpen isn’t unable to hold a lead or tie. The current dilemma is the exact same frigging dilemma it was a week ago. (Viz., the offense.) There is no way, at this point in the season, that six games represent anything more than a heavily luck-driven ebb and flow.

PaulThomas - June 22, 2008 reply

Still, I suspect nagging injuries in the BP

The usage of the BP pitchers is just wacky –
The standard ‘hide the injuries’ deal is going on, and we don’t have to like it.

MobiusKlein - June 22, 2008 reply

I'm in awe of your ability

to reason away any differing opinion, once again.