Athletics Nation

Hi Everyone!!

Greetings kapers!

eh

3-3

on an unexpected HR. Bottom of 8th.
No win for Eveland

C'mon an idiot can figure this out.

You have a pitcher who only gets groundballs (Ziegler).

You’re facing a team that hits a bunch of home runs.

So you replace the groundball pitcher with a worse pitcher???

Well, Ziggy couldn't have gone that long

It was his 4th day in a row pitching.

So he's already pitched three days in a row

Yet you continually warm him up and sit him down for three innings?

Maybe Ziegler said

“I want out. Too Uggla for me!”

Seems like every game I watch lately has Dana starting

Me too. Seems like just five days ago...

You guys are at the Mendoza Line

One-for-five, over and over.

It's like Groundhog Day

Who is warming up in the bullpen for the 9th?

We need to score now

Street is up in Pen which considering last night and his groin trouble, may not be a good Idea

I'm hoping it's Chad for the duration

Korach said Street is

Then I'll watch with trepidation

this guy is with you?

I'm getting an error message

greetings.......

Hello!

just stopped by to catch the end of y'alls game..........not gonna troll or anything......

just thought i would see what you guys are up too.

I disagree with your team of choice, sir, but I'd die to defend your right to choose it

We’re all friends, here.

Joey C. - June 21, 2008 reply

You'd die for that?

Wow.

I'd die too

I wouldn't die for that choice

but I might kill you for it though

jk

or am i…

yeah same here......and all.......points.

I just drank a Budweiser tallboy

The Dale Jr. can makes me all patriotic.

Joey C. - June 21, 2008 reply

about 6 feet here (jk)

Yeah, our games get pretty exciting sometimes in the late innings.

We have extra motivation considering your team has already won today

i have to say im fairly impressed with the young A's........

i like everyone else didnt consider them much of a threat this year….........

but as “they” say….........

Thats why they play the game

I think it's going to the wire

wouldnt have it any other way.......

Jack Cust having a tough time of late

Hopefully just a mini-slump

Cust is strangely ineffective lately

he’s either dead-on, or dead-on-arrival.

He's been that way the last career or so

Street on

1-2-3, please

Most of the hits the Marlins got tonight are on fastballs

I was surprised that Embree threw nothing but fastaballs in that last HR at-bat

Isn't that his best pitch?

Street's control is shaky, but at least he's missing low

He looked mighty lucky on 3-1

Get Hermida out this time please

I'd walk him intentionally

I never liked IBBs, it's giving out free passes and potential runs

Yes but I'm pretty indifferent between one or two runs here.

And Street is a lot better against righties with the slider

DP Please

dubious call...

Yes the ump has a very small zone

the ump during the angels game was calling strikes 1 foot off the plate on each side today.....

Was it a one hour game?

no.......but it was quick......

This ump must be evening things out then

1 more to go

that was a big out

They should let these infield flies drop occasionally

to see whether the runners are on their toes

Kotchman did that one time during an Angels game and got a DP out of it

Wy didn't they call

the infield fly rule?

Danny - June 21, 2008 reply

Kuiper said they did

crap

shit

feces

pooh

stool

fewmets

iglew - June 21, 2008 reply

Dung

I’ve never heard of fewmets

Good thinking by Ellis

maybe

uh, really?

Street got a late break to first, it would have been 50/50 to get Helms—and that’s if Huston fields the throw cleanly on the run.

50/50 is good odds there

good execution, good thinking, then more good execution

Damn

Street makes this scary

Run didn’t score though

God, Uggla is up

Get out of this, Huston!!

Perfect.

oblique - June 21, 2008 reply

him again? jeebus

I blame PaulThomas for that

The mistake was walking Hermida

Very bad decision, IMO, and one that cost the game.

IBB == evil

just get outs, so you don’t have to pitch so carefully w/ bases loaded

No, the mistake was not bringing in Chad after Gonzalez batted in the eighth

haha trade Street AND Blanton

Huston really isn’t going to last ZIto style let’s face it.

That absolutely stinks

However, people should not be booing.

What the hell, Huston?

That was a tailor made Batting Practice ball!!

Dan Uggla owns Huston Street

Let's face it

Uggla owns Huston (and the A’s)

son of a freaking btch

craptastic again

Street slamming the door = FAIL

6-3 Marlins

Street was vurnerable. Why is he in??

wow

i blame you! ;)

nice avatar

and if street had gotten to first for the ellis play.

That ball hung up there forever

Huston is pitching like a bum!

Send him to the Rivercats to “relearn” his pitch!

Or to the DL

I wish the angels could have gotten Uggla this offseason......

he is a hitting machine…......something the angels could use

Don't you guys love Kendrick though?

oh yeah.........

but he was hurt for a good majority of the year….......but he’ll never be the power bat Uggla is….....and frankly…....the halos need it…......

I guess you could try Uggla at 3B

in order to get him Kendrick would have been gone......so it wouldnt have mattered

last i heard it was “supposed to be” a 5 for 3 trade…......but it didnt go thru….....but its just nice to ask the “what if”

Who were the 5 and 3?

i believe it was........

cabrera, willis, and uggla…........for Adenhart, Mathis, Santana, Kendrick, and Willis…..

but the marlins didnt wanna give up uggla too

If you take Uggla and Kendrick out, it's still a good deal for the Angels

I’m not that excited by Adenhart or Mathis

yeah the marlins wanted 5-2......

the angels 5-3…..........

Mathis has shown flashes…....just like Adenhart…....lately Mathis has been making it a habit to throw the ball into CF on SB attempts…....and Adenhart hasnt found a groove anywhere yet this year…...but he is only 21…..so he has time…....we’ll see.

But Mathis is non-essential with Napoli around

Adenhart doesn’t strike me as having overpowering stuff. The guts of the trade is really Santana and Kendrick for Cabrera, which is a great deal for the Angels

yeah thats what i thought too.........

oh well…...cant really complain with the team that is being fielded now…...having a decent record and being in first and all…..thats why im not a GM somewhere, i guess shrug

Ummmmm..... No. Not a good idea. We don't have to face him THAT often.

The sad thing is, Ellis DID have a play at 1B,

made an incredibly wise decision not to go “do or die” to try to get it (if they don’t get Helms Ramirez will score), and it didn’t pay off.

on radio they said that street didn't make it over in time

He did, barely

Perfect execution and they get the out.

it's bad enough he got boo'd, let's not talk execution

Ugh, also the lack of covering first well also bit HS

Maybe a groin issue

Well good night all...and that fucking sucked

hope to see better news in the morning but im not holding my breath b/c ill die

Street has allowed 6 runs to score in 2 games

After yesterday’s abortion he should NOT been allowed to pitch tonight

Thank God he won’t be available tomorrow

depends on what other teams offer beane

he'll some how pitch tomorrow

How early are people showing up to get a jersey

I want to make sure I get mine

Some folk's aren't even leaving

devine will take his job

Can-NOT

Been saying for quite some time....

....I love Beane, but he simply waited FAR too long to trade Blanton and Street.

If Street is so intelligent a player, why wasn’t he covering first on the ball to Ellis?

It’s not like our pitching isn’t strong. So why the holding onto two guys with name recognition who were overrated for quite some time?

I definitely agree on Blanton

Not so sure on Street. I’m not arguing against it (I was arguing last year to trade Street), just not so sure.

We don't know what he was offered from Blanton in the offseason

for Blanton

no, we don't -- offseason or midseason last year

But I think Blanton’s trade value was likely maximal at midseason last year. Beane probably should have taken the highest offer, whatever it was.

hindsight is..

- 20/20
- something we shouldn’t consider when talking about blanton’s hind

as someone who was advocating trading him since at least May '07

... I’m entitled to the hindsight.

ok, but maybe other GMs value Blanton as you do

true

I still feel that whatever we could have gotten for Blanton a year ago would have outweighed the benefits of keeping him.

he was covering

ellis chose not to throw there

skutch - June 21, 2008 reply

Kevin Gregg was terrible for the River Cats

I’m amazed he’s survived so long

Gregg was a former halo too

I think everyone in baseball was a former A.

the Marlins made our normally reliable bullpen look like a bunch of chopped livers

Shhh...their livers haven't been hurt yet

Bring it back to Zooks

let him become 2 times hero

Woo!!

Alternative Universe Zooks walkoff!

The tease is on.

1 down, 3 to go

I'd PH Barton for Rajai

+1

+2

amen

AND TAKE THE POTENTIAL WINNING RUN OFF THE BASEPATHS?!?!?

Wait, what?

Let's do it!!

Wood on ball = good!!

davis is hitting... huh

Not a lot of faith in Barton there by Geren.

we just need for more walks

why the fuck isn't barton hitting

four would be good too

Last thrown wasn't a strike

Davis walk-off??

he just did

Walk off the field back to the dugout, yeah.

Flashfire - June 21, 2008 reply

thanks Bob!

He's walking off

but it’s cause he is a bad hitter

Back to the dugout

you have got to be kidding me

That 2-1 pitch was NOT a strike

borderline strike calls

according to gamecast

shocking

Blanton's high point...

...for trade value was two offseasons ago when his W-L record was inflated. Then or mid last season would have worked for me. I understand why not, with all the youth and injury issues, but at first sign things were looking good pitching wise (or two offseasons ago) i would have moved Blanton.

As for Street. I don’t get the love. He’s always been pretty hittable. He gets hurt a lot and blows a lot of saves. And closers as a position are overrated.

One thing I like about Street blown saves though is he gets bailed out of the loss on his blown saves often…

...let’s go Oakland!!

Always been hittable?

Yea, .190 batting average last year…Good call chief.

OaktownPower - June 21, 2008 reply

god

Gapper... Gapper... Gapper...

Cmon Sweeney

bases juiced

Common Ryan Sweeney!!!!

3 more walks to victory

Gap one Ryan

gregg has lost it.......

cant find the K zone

Just one nice single!!!

This has been a really great series so far.

iglew - June 21, 2008 reply

this guy's strike zone is all over the place

Yeah it's really bad

Either be low or be high, just make it consistent.

not to mention inside/outside

That 2-1 “strike” call on Rajai was criminal.

If Barton had been PH’ing as he should have, that pitch would have hit him in the right calf.

And now they can start running

Flashfire - June 21, 2008 reply

Treanor's a really good C

full count

sit on fastballl here

changeup instead

gutsy pitch

Damn, nice play

Flashfire - June 21, 2008 reply

damn

Nice swing, nice play at first

Pitcher cover == win

GOD DAMMIT

Cantu needs to go back to being a godawful fielder please

almost

fuck you, huston

That really pisses me off

That Street fucks us 3 times in 2 games

He needs to be on the DL, he is obviously not right.

Biggest Tease.......

click

bob geren loss

PFP was the difference in the game

They need to DL Street if he's hurt.

DL him anyway. maybe he needs to stop riding BART

huston also

whoa.....ball 4 by a mile too

As Kurt said after last night's game

"We are never gonna give up. We may not win every game but I guarantee we will be fighting until the last out".

Just load the bases and give us hope. I must be a masochist to watch this team.

I’m also a Jets fan. I need therapy.

If Cantu doesn't get it, the A's win

Game of freaking centimeters. Not that we deserved to win, but it would have been nice to anyway.

exactly

HEV
high entertainment value

Better that..better a run and bases loaded

than three K’s on nine pitches in the ninth.

You have to remember, this is for entertainment.

It aint the Palestinians vs Israeli Army or something.

street fastball is 88 to 89, it used to be 91 to 93 what happen

maybe its time to go to the Greg Maddux/Tom Glavine school of non-hardthrowing studs?

I think all of baseball would love to go to that school

Duke would need to pitch CG win tomorrow

Are there other availability issues?

Why did Houston come on in the 9th, tie game anyway?
Gaudin, Brown, others off?

Also the whole bit with starters warming up in the BP – I think the bullpen is some sort of trouble

Greg Smith was throwing in the pen in the 9th

Gaudin could only go 0.1 IP? What did I miss?

When is devine coming back?

Thank Gawd the Marlins are in the NL.

These guys can swing it!

What's annoying is that the one thing they can't do

is field. And they won the game, instead of losing it, on a defensive play.

That's baseball!

It’s why I dig this game.

i agree, we got the phils next and they can swing it to

Santana and Saunders have shut down the Phills............

I think your staff can hold em in check too.

No doubt.

I don’t look forward to Blanton getting shelled next week.

damn the angels are 24 and 12 on the road

so far the road has been good to the halos.......

Vlad is carring the angels right now

having Figgins come back has sparked the team too........

when he came back…..Vlad heated up too.

i still think one of the best lineups is the Rangers

Rangers can swing it, too.

Josh Hamilton is a flat-out stud.

he has quite the contingent of fans over at HH too.......

lots of guys have him on his fantasy team

We were leading the whole way, just giving it up like in the last inning is really draining

I hate Dan Uggla

Put him one notch below Placido Polanco.

Tyler Bleszinski - June 21, 2008 reply

Where was Hannahan when Ellis had the ball that was the INF single that loaded bases

Going for the ball too

OK

I didn’t see it.

Should he have stayed at 1st?

That, and no IBB, and put a different pitcher in.

That’s not exactly fair – it IBB we all knew was a problem at the start – other bits are post-facto judgements.

I still think Ellis made a great decision,

and it just wound up biting the A’s on the butt.

Correct deciscion once the play unfolded as it did

Street being at first a few moments earlier, it’s a different call.

If Street's there, Ellis throws it

I’ve just seen SO many times where that play ends with an infield hit scoring the runner from second (often with the throw bouncing away), and Ellis knew that if the next hitter gets out – which even Dan Uggla does more than 40% of the time, inning over. And he didn’t hold the ball either – he immediately lobbed a one-hop strike to the plate. He’s just so f-ing smart.

Perhaps Barton

would have played it smarter.
Who knows??
Barton probably needs a day off.

i Swear if we could trade harden for a josh hamilton type player i wouldnt thnik twice about it

OK OaktownPower

I knew someone would call me on that.

Street does get into some nice grooves. His rookie year i loved him and thought his future was bright. And he got on a nice roll right after the last time i dissed him earlier this year. But his injuries combined with his lack of overpowering stuff and blown saves….along with a propensity to get into really bad spells like this one…along with the position itself being overrated….

My point is to take advantage of his name and how many teams overvalue closers…when we have a stable of good relievers, earlier in their clocks. My point is to trade him before that average against goes much higher and/or he gets hurt again.

I’ll admit, maybe i don’t respect the hittable looking junk he throws enough. Maybe it’s the timing of the hits he does give up. But since his rookie year i’ve never been that sure with him in there.

So, OK, you got me. With Blanton Beane needed to wait until he could see what he had…and now it’s too late to get max value back. With Street there’s always been enough there to hold onto him.

On a different subject: The A’s and Beane do clearly well for the money. And BB gets some diamonds in the rough and a lot of good players. But he never seems to get the REALLY good players like an Uggla or Ramirez. I know the A’s haven’t spent in the draft and have drafted safe picks and that’s worked…but all these years one or two of these clearly superior players…OK, now i’m being spoiled.

I hear you with Street. I guess we could do a lot worse.

Did Brett Anderson get promoted to Midland?

He’s listed on Midland’s roster (on the website).

Devine needs to be the closer. When is he Due back?

I don't think he's started throwing yet

His arm was still a little sore 10 days ago and they were being cautious.

Not good

Those two walks in the top of the nineth cost the A's

Remember embree giving up a bomb to the 8 hole hitter on a 2 and 2 count

at least they got that fun fare and square

I mean that run, certainly not fun for us

fair and square, can't spell

That would have made it worse in the 9th

Street would have come in with a 1 run lead and no doubt done the same thing. That ball to Uggla was on a tee and said “Hit Me” as were about half a dozen of Street’s other offerings. Usually a pitcher may throw a bad pitch and get away with it. With Street over the last two nights, I saw about a few good pitches and a whole bunch of bad ones. The guy has lost velocity and his groin or something is stopping him from being effective. That’s not quite correct, he was EFFECTIVE for Florida.

Street hasn't been effective against good hitting teams this year

Yes he has

but There is something wrong with him to give up 2 home runs, 2 doubles, many walks and 6 RBI in two games. That is in the class of Joe Borowksi.

There is no question when he’s right, he’s effective. 88 mph is not right

maybe I have a selected memory (only remember his bad outings)

but he blew a save againt the Red Sox in Japan and also served up a HR to Hamilton in Texas

Sorry Javaball

I misread your post. I thought you said he has been.

Had I read it correctly, I would have worded my reply a little differently

gotcha

I was holding back

I really was wanting to rip Geren for bringing him in but initially thought better of posting that.

Even if they wnet 18 innings tomorrow, he should NOT see the kight of day.

i seriously thought the bullpen would be are strong pt

When Casilla and Devine went down

that really screwed the pen.

The main goal is for Casilla to get back in a groove and that will help with the others. Hopefully Street is unavailable for games with ties or leads less than 3 runs until he/they sort out what is wrong with him.

i would willing to trade a player liek harden for a hamilton

My goodness.

Can we block this guy?

Sorry, just… seriously.

BWH - June 21, 2008 reply

good pitching can shutdown good defense, I won't trade a good starter for a hitter

how does that happen?

and doesnt this statement directly contradict your previous one?

I mean good pitching can shutdown good offense, how is that a contradiction?

you said you wont trade a good starter for a hitter......

but in the post above you said ” i would trade harden for hamilton”

so you tell me where the contradiction is?

That's not my post, I never said anthing about trading, I like the team as it is right now

oh you are right........

sorry…...nevermind.

my eyeballs were playing tricks on me........

my bad

not a problem, I can't even spell tonight after that tough loss

Tough loss tonight.

Put Street on the DL and make Casilla or Embree the closer. Or Gaudin. Enough already. Ryan Sweeney looks good at the plate and the Marlins got lucky. Let’s get them tomorrow. Huston is a great closer, he’s just not himself right now. Go A’s!

A'sfansince1970 - June 21, 2008 reply

Agree on not trading great P for great H

Also, Harden, as has been mentioned here, doesn’t have trade value on par with his talent, due to injury history. So, let’s just hold onto him and be the ones to reap his talents.

As for my earlier lack of finding great players, only lots of good ones comment…Harden was an exception in that, but of course he gets the injury bug….argg.

With Beane and co’s new focus on young, big upside draft picks and Dominican players, maybe we will soon blend a few of these illusive great players in with the consistent good players we always have with Beane.

And really, this is what’s so great about Beane: his honesty of his own faults and ability to make adjustments. And, again, with Harden at least he/we got really unlucky. Not to mention we kind of had to let a few go (and keeping Chavez instead of Tejada made sense with a Crosby and no Crosby like player at third.)

thats a tough one i think

it has been show in the post season…....that great pitching can beat great hitting….......but i think (esp when it comes to the dead sux that you might need to possibly sacrifice a good pitcher for a big bat…...because unfortunately…..that team is built for that park….....and sluggin it out with them is about the best way to beat them….....IMHO

norcaliangelsfan, would you agree that

if the Angels continue to score and give up the same number of runs, the A’s will stay in the race, but if LAA got away with a weird run distribution and keeps playing good baseball, the A’s are screwed? That’s kind of how I see it – LAA is due for a major speed bump but they may or may not actually hit it.

are you talking in that Pythag stuff?

honestly.......

i think the angels hit their offensive slump this last 6 weeks or so….......the pitching has been superb….....im just curious to know if they are/will hold up….......its amazing to me that the angels havent lost more….....but now everyone is getting healthy again offensively so i see the angels going on a tear the next month or two and then cooling down again in Aug….....(people getting tired and stuff) but i def think the A’s are worthy contenders…......(i mean just look at the ultra competitive games the two teams always seem to play against each other) In the end i think its gonna come down to whos pitching can hold up the longest.

just to add on that........

the angels have only scored 10 runs or more in a game like 2 times all year…....and the last 6 weeks or so they have been averaging less than 4 a game….....but somehow (thanks to the pitching) they’ve been winning series….........9 outta the last 11 series….....so as long as that keeps happening…....it will be hard i think for the A’s to surpass the halos.

I think it's fair to say that if

Saunders and Santana win 20 of their next 25 decisions, the Angels will win the West.

yeah and plus Lackey is really only now getting into a groove.......since he missed the first 6 weeks of the season

plus…...there are reports that Escobar should be back soon…..he is supposed to be a rehab assignment fairly soon….......he will be in the pen though.

Also got unlucky with Dan Meyer

Imagine if he had developed to be as good as Haren – and we could have traded Haren AND still had him!

I hear you with Meyer...

...but he never was more than a prospect, so i can’t count him.

From Dye to Harden though, the A’s have had more than their share of bad luck.

I guess low payroll….underdog status…close losses by freak plays from young, inexperienced players in the ‘offs all those years…..the baseball gods CARE NOT that we are playing vs a stacked deck.

Will make it all the sweeter when we win it all though!

Let’s get ‘em tomorrow A’s.

Bob Geren was not happy when asked why Street was in

Asked once he said, “He’s our closer”

Reporter asked him to elaborate he said, “He’s our closer, that’s who we go with in the 9th or in a tied game”

That answers that I guess.

What can Brown do for you?

I was hoping that the bullpen would learn that lesson from last night and bounce back

but that didn’t happen

RECAP IS UP, BTW

Earlier this season Geren said "Embree is my 8th inning guy...."

...with just as much bluntness.

It seems to be his achilles heel.

With Geren’s ‘pen it doesn’t seem to matter:

1. Who is hot or not.
2. Who is coming up for the other team.
3. How the pitcher who is already in there is throwing that day, whether or not he has “it” already and one doesn’t need to risk the next guy not having it.

Sure, it’s true many of us fans don’t know all the details. But it’s a shame that therefore, MLB guys assume we’re all wrong and just don’t get it.

But it’s not rocket science. We have resources, detailed stats. We know who’s been hot and not. We know pitch counts, who’s been used a lot lately and who hasn’t.

I cannot stand stubborn “he’s my guy” not matter what the details kind of “thinking.”

As you can tell.

My man Mike Scoscia falls into that trap fairly often as well......

i feel your frustration.

I hear you, but I think so much of that

has been because Geren has been without the best options to choose from. I don’t think he would be stubbornly going to Foulke if Devine and Casilla were healthy and hot – he just trusts his veterans over younger guys when the younger guys are rusty or untested. I can understand that.

That is it in a nutshell

The pen was great with Casilla and Devine. Everyone else basically slotted in.

I

I think it's easy to overlook how

much it kills a pen to lose its second and third most effective guys. Shields and Speier, Timlin and Okajima, etc. It’s literally a no-win situation.

I think this stubborn phenomena...

...has to be due to the fact these guys (the players) are human beings and it isn’t fantasy sports.

True objectitvity often sees these managers moves as the mistakes they are. But, to keep a semblence of consistency and trust with their players, ALL managers stick to their ways.

It’s too bad some team can’t convince their players to just accept being ready when they’re asked to go out there, without having to be a “8th inning guy,” or no matter what closer. Or any other role.

I suppose the accepted wisdom is that the players need to know their roles and by sticking to those roles, even when the situation is SCREAMING out for changing from the strict pattern…..managers grow trust and over the long haul it pays off but we don’t see that part.

That’s the only reasoning i can see to the madness.

My least favorite managerial move, hated more than the “he’s my so and so inning guy,” is the taking out of a guy who just threw an easy, effective inning, hasn’t been used a lot lately, is plenty strong enough to throw some more (often with a day off the next day,) and has good matchups coming up…..for a guy who nobody knows if he has it that day.

I dare ANY manager to try to tell me that EVER makes sense. But they ALL do it because that’s the accepted way to manage your ‘pen. Makes me ill sometimes how stubborn even our progressive team is.

Agree with one part for sure:

Going to more different guys is just asking for trouble. One guy with “nothing” that day can offset 3-4 effective relievers in a hurry.