I haven't seen this linked anywhere else on AN, but Maury Brown did an excellent interview with former A's and Mets pitching coach Rick Peterson. I would highly recommend that you read it. It's got some great stuff in there about pitching mechanics as well as former A's like Barry Zito and a very interesting moment that he describes from an A's game against the New York Yankees where he was the pitching coach:
And when you talk about memorable trips to the mound, a moment that really sticks out has to be when Jason Isringhausen was pitching for us in Oakland, and we went into Yankee Stadium. It believe it was early September and Barry Zito was winning the game three to two against Roger Clemens. We brought in Izzy in the ninth inning, and the first pitch to Bernie Williams was a homer. And now it's three to three. And the first pitch to David Justice was a homer. So two pitches later – about thirty seconds – we lose. (Laughs.)
And he was, you know, distraught to say the least. It was one of those situations where it affected him. He hadn't closed for a long period of time in his career – I believe it might have been his first full year of closing – and it really had a major impact on him. It really affected him; he felt like he let the team down. He was very de-motivated. Fear, worry and doubt starts to creep in, and he really said, “Look, I need a few days off of this. I need a break.”
The story essentially goes on from there and how Peterson tries to work Izzy through that moment of crisis and dealing with a similar situation later on in the year.
Peterson also talks about the difference between playing or coaching in the New York market as opposed to the Oakland market. He essentially says that in New York you essentially have 162 seasons in a year as opposed to the 162 games in a year in Oakland. By that he means that the drama is amped up to a ridiculous level based on what the team did on that certain day. Apparently he's never been in an AN game thread.
Two other notes about the interview. First, Brown discusses what pitchers from the past that Peterson would've wanted to have coached. Peterson brings up Sandy Koufax. I would've loved to have had Brown tie the elbow issues that Koufax had back to Peterson's work on the injury issues with pitchers. Would Peterson have been able to give Koufax a longer career? I want to know what Peterson thinks.
The other thing is that I'm wondering how much of an impact Peterson leaving the A's has adversely impacted their injury issues. Maybe Peterson's impact on the A's pitching has been overstated, but would the A's pitchers have had as many issues if Peterson was still here? How much do the A's still use the techniques and programs that Peterson had implemented while he was here?
1 recs | 22 comments
The Isringhausen game was a stunner...
It was bizarre. Cut to commercial… leave room. Come back and the radio has Yankees fans celebrating. Totally confusing and crushing. Flat-out couldn’t believe it.
louismg - December 3, 2008
Worst eight seconds of my life
Nico - December 3, 2008
"Worst eight seconds of my life"
Hear that often do you?
AEP2007 - December 4, 2008
A lot more often than I hear
“back to back homeruns!”
Nico - December 4, 2008
haha
nice!
AEP2007 - December 5, 2008
Thanks for the link, will read!
I seem to recall sometime after that particular NY game where announcers began keeping track of “BA of batters faced by A’s pitchers after a Peterson visit” … as I recall, the numbers were pretty awful. It’s like the batters knew what Peterson told the guy to throw.
I’m sorry I don’t have actual numbers or dates to support this hazy memory.
popcornjames - December 3, 2008
that's a really interesting article
thanks for linking!
alea iacta est - December 3, 2008
Fantastic.
Thanks.
NateHST - December 3, 2008
Good read, and I still like Peterson. Thanks for the info and link!
still bills kingdom - December 3, 2008
Terrific indeed!
WaddellCanseco - December 3, 2008
Awesome!
Thanks for info and link!!!
Blicks - December 4, 2008
Mechanics
IMO, pitchers don’t meaningfully change once they get to the majors. It’s simply too difficult unless they are faced with adversity or surgery – and even then, there’s no guarantee. Roger Clemens pre and post surgery is probably the best example I can think of.
Kyle Boddy - December 4, 2008
I was at that game at the Stadium...
Zito pitched a beautiful, magnificent game…and then 2 pitches from Izzy, its over….I was so pissed.
I hate the Yankees.
mills16 - December 4, 2008
Zito
I cant believe the Giants have not offered Peterson a large amount of money to work with Zito. Maybe it amounts to nothing but the possibility of maximizing their investment seems like a no brainer to me. Or maybe the Giants have and Peterson declined. Anyone know?
njnick - December 4, 2008
Peterson was fired by the Mets during last season
and the Giants have a pitching coach. I’m wondering whether it might have been too awkward to bring him in on a temporary basis for just one pitcher.
OaklandSi - December 5, 2008
As awkward as signing Zito for $126million?
Oops.
Nico - December 5, 2008
hey, if bringing in a cohort of shamans
witches, hypnotists, etc could help Zito, awkwardness be damned…
OaklandSi - December 6, 2008
Problem with the "he stops injuries" theory: the A's don't suffer more pitching injuries than anyone else
The A’s are constantly in health-crisis mode because they can’t keep their POSITION PLAYERS healthy— a skill at which they are absolutely, unequivocally the worst team in all of baseball.
Pitchers get hurt. Every team has a year every 4 or 5 where they lose half their rotation at some point. What’s really inexcusable is for every A’s position player to seemingly miss 40 games a season with a calf strain and a pulled hamstring.
PaulThomas - December 4, 2008
True. And re: Peterson's techniques
I definitely remember Zito and Hudson, at least, throwing from behind the mound in warm-up, with the front foot landing on the back of the mound. And it seemed that there were other exercises that they did that I haven’t seen A’s pitchers do anymore. I’m pretty sure I saw Hudson doing that after he went to the Braves, though.
Funny how Peterson speaks of eastern philosophy. It seems like you’re either a disciple of his, or you’re not. And I thought “satori” was an awakening, and elightenment, but maybe not.
SF Geoff - December 4, 2008
Peterson's idea of "eastern" philosophy
, ie the black belt thing, to have pitchers think about pitching mechanics, isn’t all that rare outside of sports training circles.
The Russians used to grade their athletes based on their achievements similarly too: via ranking system: Master of Sport International Class, Master of Sport, Candidate for Master of Sport, Class 1, Class 2, Class 3. An athlete achieves a qualification / ranking based on results in competitions.
In part, it gives an athlete a sense of where s/ he is, and where / what s/he is trying to work towards, and how to get to where s/he wants to go to.
From the standpoint of training, athletes at different levels undergo (somewhat) different training regimens. Partially because athletes at different levels often have different muscle recruitment properties, different movement patterns. For example, a MSIC or MS level long jumper recruits his / her quads, hamstrings, glutes, calves in a different manner from a class 2 / class 3 jumper.
rfloh - December 5, 2008
I <3 Rick Peterson:
Even though he is an ass of human…He is one helluva pitching coach.
Raymond St. Martin (Saint) - December 4, 2008
It is an interesting interview.
I do wish Brown had put more of it up. He said in some comments on BBTF that there’s (much) more.
The interview as published doesn’t really address handling pitcher workload in any depth, doesn’t really address pitch counts, PAP, and the problem of measuring workload without accounting for intensity.
And I dislike his tire analogy. It’s been shown in research that tendons and ligaments, like muscles, can and will get stronger with proper training. The problem isn’t work, the problem is too much work too soon.
Who knows? Certainly, if any of the A’s pitchers have a pitching motion that clearly falls outside the normative ranges that Andrews’ biomechanical research has established, sure, he could probably have been prevented from getting injured. Peterson cites an example of this in the interview, a guy who’s ROM in external rotation is significantly less than the normative range.
BUT, the likelihood is that most pitchers are not such outliers. Peterson himself mentions that both Hudson, and Zito, fall into the normal range of measures. Yet, both have differing mechanics, and different methods of achieving success. And certainly their careers have diverged significantly.
Furthermore, the careers of Zito and Hudson do illustrate an issue with injury prevention. MLB pitchers need to be healthy AND effective. Mechanics that are good, or perfect, for injury prevention, might either be difficult to learn / master / repeat consistently, or not very effective at getting MLB hitters out.
Pattern learning and mastery for any sport is complex.
rfloh - December 5, 2008
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