First of all, not much to analyze in tonight's game. Kirk Saarloos had a chance to win, and all he had to do in 100 pitches was to make 0 mistakes. He made 1. Sure, one can always speculate. Maybe the A's could have thanked Saarloos for 7 awesome innings and turned it over to tonight's DD (designated Duchscherer). Morneau, batting .185 vs. LHP this season, could have been required to try his hand in the 8th against tonight's DAAALOOGY (designated AAA LOOGY). Ferrets could have flown out of my butt and painted the outside corner with 3 unhittable changeups. But what it boiled down to, on a night where only 1-0 could win it, was that Kirk Saarloos made a ton of great pitches and then missed the target once by a foot-and-a-half. Sometimes you get away with one mistake, sometimes you don't.
Johan Santana is incredible. It's not just that his fastball is mid-90s, his slider late breaking, and his changeup deceptive, but he will throw his fastball, his slider, or his changeup, to any hitter, in any count, interchangeably--because he has equally pinpoint command of all three pitches. He's a guy you have to be ready to beat 1-0. Or to lose to 2-1, unfortunately.
Finally, stats on "win shares" help to remind us that even when players appear to be so important that their absence is worth 4 games in 30, in fact that isn't really the case. But partly due to circumstance--the A's have played more one-run and two-run games than you could possibly predict--it seems like the A's really might miss Justin Duchscherer that much. By my recollection, there have been as many as 5 games since Duke went down where he would have pitched with the A's in a position to win, and where the A's have gone on to lose. You figure even Duke is human, so maybe he blows one of them. Is it possible that perception actually is reality, and that Duke's injury has actually cost the A's around 4 wins (the difference in the division) in the span of just one month?
0 recs | 60 comments
I am trying to cruise
with this loss....no Buan show...dvd rental next.ak_A - June 2, 2006
Saarloos shouldn't have pitched in the 8th
He was great tonight but was getting hittable. It's very rare for him to be effective that late -- and with that pitch count -- in a game.Unfortunately Kiko was used last night and thus was unavailable.
That's really the whole story. Santana is one of the game's greatest pitchers, and he was on tonight.
OaklandSi - June 2, 2006
Totally Disagree....
He had 74 pitches thrown and given one hit in 20 BATTERS. Ridiculous statement. Let's just get to the point, the offense is simply not there tonight and generally every night. I brought this up that Frank Thomas has the best OPS in the AL over the last 14 days and we have won 4 of 13. Ouch.compy75 - June 2, 2006
We WERE
batting against Santana, who just so happens to be one of the best pitchers of both leagues right now.RenoTy - June 3, 2006
He should have pitched the 8th
until he gave up a baserunner. There is no way he should have pitched to JM. NO WAY.homerozzieandthestraw - June 3, 2006
not ridiculous at all
take a look at who was pitching for Minnesota.On many other nights I would agree with you about the offense...not this time
OaklandSi - June 3, 2006
Ridiculous...
I just meant with a guy who has given up 2 baserunners in the past 22 batters, it would seem to make sense to keep him in based on the struggles of the pen.compy75 - June 3, 2006
I agree that because of
the pen situation, he was left in. Had Kiko not pitched the night before I'm pretty sure Saarloos would not have begun the eighth inning -- or at least would have been lifted after giving up a very hard hit single to Cuddayer.OaklandSi - June 3, 2006
Not sure about that
Given Saarloos' low pitch count, extreme effectiveness entering the inning, and Macha's "one batter too late" approach, I think Kirk might have been left in even if the bullpen was entirely rested--which it basically was (I'm sure Calero was available).Nico - June 3, 2006
let me rephrase that
I'm not sure of anything that Macha would have done.But I do think that -- seeing how the Twins were starting to hit Saarloos' pitches better beginning in the seventh inning -- had Macha had more confidence in the bullpen he might well have lifted Saarloos in the eighth, either right at the top or after Cuddayer's hit. Low pitch count or not, Saarloos doesn't have a rep of being mystifying for an entire game. If his pitches start rising he becomes hittable.
At the top of the eighth Street was warming up. That indicates to me that Macha was hoping that Saarloos could get through at least most of the eighth, and that Kiko was not available. If you're going to push a starter, better to have done it with Zito the night before than with Saarloos.
OaklandSi - June 3, 2006
Yes, that's the power
of the HR--it happens too quickly for opposing managers to stop a rally in time. Essentially, if Morneau had done anything but HR, the bullpen would probably have been given the chance to protect a lead, or at least a tie.But the key is your accurate comment: "Low pitch count or not, Saarloos doesn't have a rep of being mystifying for an entire game. If his pitches start rising he becomes hittable." Given this, a manager like Torre or Cox has his reliever of choice either start the 8th, or come on after Cuddyer's single. Macha, unfortunately, is a much more reactive manager than he is a proactive manager.
Nico - June 3, 2006
Saarloos was absolutely fantastic
that's really all we can ask for. It sucks that it didn't work out, but this is really one of those games when you say "You can't win them all."Even if we had every single player available and were 4 games in the lead, you sometimes lose this kind of game when you really feel like your starter deserved the W.
Poor Kirk! :(
I reserve my angry faces for: Kotsay (4 relatively poopy at bats) and Scoot. DJ also gets one for yet another bad at bat (even though no one can touch Nathan) because it's another in the long line of "Why is he still up here?" moments.
nycfan @ Athletics Nation - June 2, 2006
Scoot = Dear in the Headlights
But you can't fault his awesome defensive plays tonight. #1 webgem on baseball tonight.I still think that with regular at bats and extra work, he'll get his swing back to average.
luvsthecurveball - June 2, 2006
Macha was pretty critical about DJ's at bat
in the post-game show. He said that with such good Minnesota pitching (at that point it was Nathan) you know you're going to get strikes and you have to be aggressive at the plate in a late game one run down pinch hitting situation. in Macha's words "you gotta swing the bat."He also said he sent DJ to pinch hit because he'd hit a home run the night before -- to which I'd add that he wasn't facing Nathan the night before. what was needed was at least one baserunner, with the A's top of the lineup coming up.
As I'd said before, this time I'm not going to blame the offense. Santana is one of the game's best pitchers and Nathan is one of the best closers.
OaklandSi - June 3, 2006
Can't get upset over this loss...
It was actually a great game with Santana pitching lights out. A's were lucky just to get the one run. But if Saarloos wins this game 1-0 over Santana, it would have been the talk of baseball on this Friday night. I still see the A's winning the next two games. I see nothing but good times up ahead.Coach Cleats - June 2, 2006
Coach Cleats, I assume
when you say "would have been the talk of baseball," you mean it would have been featured as high as 8th on Baseball Tonight.Nico - June 2, 2006
Exactly!
Coach Cleats - June 3, 2006
I really do NOT like
Morneau. The guy seems like a bust prospect until he plays the A's. You'd think Billy Beane traded him away at some point.He now has three home runs in five games against the A's this year. Someone go Tonya Harding on his ass. I nominate Jennifer.
Tyler Bleszinski - June 2, 2006
I should also add
that even though Los Kirk pitched a great game, it's weird to me that he could pitch eight innings and not wind up with a K. I know he isn't a strikeout pitcher, but that's quite a feat.Tyler Bleszinski - June 2, 2006
I'm upset with DJ...
Not swinging at a single pitch on his PH at-bat... WTF! Stupid, i was a supporter of him until i watched tonight, send him to AAA. I'm sick of him, and scoot, killin me, and perez. Ugggh, Great job too Saars. He matched up for 7 with Johan, and even had him beaten. Ridiculous. We needed another runner on nathan cuz johan is tough to get on.gdub171 - June 2, 2006
be pissed at the coaching staff...
who pinch hits a .190 hitter who's obviously lost at the plate? Melhuse can hit left-handed, can he not? I mean macha had the guts to pinch hit Meluse for Dye in the 2003 palyoffs, and look how that AB went...tdwclark - June 3, 2006
take a look at what Macha said about it
in my post aboveOaklandSi - June 3, 2006
Saarloos gave us more than expected
he did a great job, remember we were facing one of the best pitchers in the league.The one thing that bothered me the most was DJ at-bat, I would had bring Melhuse to open the 9th.
no swing strike-out, sh........t
haroldMD - June 2, 2006
Saarloos pitched a gem
And sometimes sh.....t happens. But yeah, I would've preferred Adam or even the call-up, Jeremy Brown. I mean, what's he riding the pine for?luvsthecurveball - June 2, 2006
Saarloos
was great tonight.. but its just one of those pitcher does well offense sucks kinda days..think about it this way.. its only 1 loss so far in june...
TrizzleNizzle510 - June 2, 2006
magnificently pitched baseball game
only bad thing was that we lost. Nico is, as usual, spot on in the wrap: this was a game in which we really miss Duke, who probably would've come in after the single leading off the 8th. I pray on bended knee to the non-denominational Lords of the Sacred Elbow that Justin isn't gone for the year, I don't think we can do it without him... that's how valuable he is. I suppose it would've been a good one to throw Halsey in for (were he not, for a few more days anyway, still in the rotation), given the stats vs. LHP that Morneau has posted. Anyway that guy KILLS us for some reason, whoever was saying that is right on it. And Santana, omigod he is as good as anyone currently alive, that changeup is invisible and certainly travels in a parallel universe where bats can't touch it.Good news is that FT is putting the Hurt on w/3 bombs in 3 days and 4 in 5... if he continues to round into summer form he might be good for 30 or even more (knocks wood, rubs rabbit's navicular bone hanging from necklace). That, pals, is all we could have asked from someone who really hadn't played much the previous 2 years.
We will win both weekend games and then, I dunno about y'all but I'm ready for one of those sick 60-20 summer runs this club is famous for. At any rate it is good to see them playing a lot crisper and not just crapping the bed like they were last week, when I wanted to throttle several of them. I find it slightly disturbing that the manager has to incentivize proper play with cash payments, but whatever it takes, I guess.
emperor nobody - June 2, 2006
Very frustrating evening...
Didn't leave the office until 7 (long story). Listened to the game up 880 - came back late from commercial and missed Thomas' home run... made it to the park just as the bottom of the 5th was ending with Kendall popping up. An hour later, we were all done, and the A's lost. I spent more time in the car.What made it worse? We were surrounded by people who didn't pay attention to the game and thought they were paid by the word. One woman was so adept at making noise that a guy bought her an ice cream cone and said maybe that would shut her up. It didn't work.
Grrrrrrrr....
louismg - June 2, 2006
Sorry. We all enjoy games
our own way, ok?-Cindi
P.S. Did we win? :-}
Nico - June 2, 2006
What is the latest on Duke/
Has he gone underground? Is he even in the ballpark these days? I haven't heard anything except some second-hand mention that he might not be back till ASB. I think his injury has hurt the team the most, or at least as much as Harden's. Any diagnosis beyond tendinitis?Disappointing loss, but you can't get your knickers in a twist about this game. We got 25 consecutive scoreless innings out of our pitchers. Not bad.
BTW -- Caught Slusser on KNBR this afternoon when the Giants game was rained out. (I only tuned in because I was curious how the New Yorkers were greeting Mr. Potato Head. I do NOT listen to Giants' games normally.) Anyway, Ralph and Tom were bashing on the A's, saying how they weren't going to be able to dig themselves out of their hole this year, and that Thomas stinks, and Crosby stinks, and Haren stinks, and blah blah blah. Susan -- God she's a sweety, she never sounds annoyed -- politely corrected them on some of their idiocies and sounded realistically optimistic about the team. She thought things would come together, although she was most concerned about the bullpen.
SportySpice @ Athletics Nation - June 2, 2006
this from Hardball Times 5/30
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-baseball-injury-report3/Justin Duchscherer (RHP, OAK)
A couple of weeks ago, the news that Duchscherer had some minor soreness in his pitching elbow was met with little concern around the A's. That false hope is likely to change with the latest news.
While doing some rehab work on his pitching forearm and elbow, he felt pain in his pitching elbow. This was just some lightweight work with his wrist, and his elbow started barking at him.
This suggests the main tendon in his forearm is either the source of the pain or it is rubbing up against the painful area in his pitching elbow. He underwent an MRI on the elbow, but the cause of the pain was not discovered conclusively. This prevents the medical staff from treating it with a cortisone injection until they know the exact cause.
The A's haven't provided any additional information, but this latest report hints that he's back at square one and a quick 15-day DL stint is a fleeting wish. It's not out of the question this setback will push his return to sometime after the All-Star break, perhaps late in July.
OaklandSi - June 3, 2006
Thanks
Sounds mysterious.Are you going to the game Sunday? If you still have my personal email, drop me a note. (I can't find yours.)
SportySpice @ Athletics Nation - June 3, 2006
just sent it to you
OaklandSi - June 3, 2006
sigh, Si
ak_A - June 3, 2006
Not good enough...
Why is everyone letting the team off of the hook, just because K.S. pitched well. I undersrtand Santana is great, but Kotsay, Chavez, and Kendall (among others) didn't have a single good AB. Don't get me started on Dan "small" Johnson...However in the end, the culprit is the same: a bad offensive team combined with a depleated pitching staff, combined with inept managing. Ka Ka must go.
He made one of the Cardinal mistakes while managing: never let your starter stay in for the lose when he has pitched his guts out. K.S. doesn't have 100 pitches in the tank. Period. Ka Ka leaving him in to face Morneau is indefensible. He can't hit lefties. Granted the bullpen is terrible these days, but a reliever should have started the 8th. Everyone could see K.S. was figured out by then. The base hit to lead the inning off was arocket.
Batting DJ was also a mistake. Melhuse is a better fastball hitter, and has more experience pinch hitting. Even the A's recent wins (not many) have not been well played. The Twins and Royals offenses are actually worse than the A's, and save for some show of power the offense has been non existant.
Sorry for the long rant, just pissed at the game and Ka Ka, and rubbed wrong by the cheery tone of posters.
alarsuel - June 2, 2006
whoops
"lose" should read "loss" above.Also, please disregard any other spelling, grammar, or syntax errors.
alarsuel - June 2, 2006
Not to downplay your angst
but many of the things you're upset about are mentioned in other posts...many other posts.I don't think anyone is wearing "rose-colored glasses" regarding this loss, but you have to admit that an outing like that from Saarloos was very, very welcome. Not to mention that Frank hit another home run.
Yes, the offense sucked; against a good pitcher, I think we all expected a slow night offensively. And yes, the PH decision was mishandled. Again, I think a lot of us are coming to "expect" that as well.
But I do see a lot of positives in this team lately and I'm trying to avoid going postal. :-)
luvsthecurveball - June 3, 2006
Let's face it...
we are saying what we said last September...our offense just doesn't get it done. Saarloos pitched a good game for Saarloos. He pitched the best we could expect from him. We need more than a good farm team. We need Wolff to open the purse strings. Put some pizzazz on the field and fans will come a knockin.IM4Oakgal - June 2, 2006
The way Santana pitched yesterday...
...not many offenses, no matter how potent, would get it done. I'm glad the A's were still in it all game, thanks to Saarloos.We've got Radke and his 7.01 ERA (!) next -- a real prime offensive production opportunity.
FormerHuntsvilleStar - June 3, 2006
I have to echo DJ criticism tonight
We were hoping for some 9th inning heroics, but a simple glance at Joe Nathan's stats (26 k's and 2 bb's on the season) said that he was coming in to throw strikes. Taking strikes is something Scutaro is quite capable of, and we didn't need DJ to do that. We were yelling at him by strike two saying Scutaro could have done the same. Strike 3 was inevitable.On the flip side, having to bat for a guy batting .133 with one batting .199 is simply embarrasing. It'd be great to have Scott McClain up for a bit so he can play the Patrick Lennon role.
louismg - June 3, 2006
I'm not one.....
to live with excuses, but................ When your long relief guy starts a game against one of the best "Aces" i n the game (and he is) and it comes down to one run...... be pleased. I too would have loved to see a 1-0 for the good, but I have to rank tonight with the last two days for tun around value. Yes, we could have done more at the plate, but we didn't. The Capt. made a single mistake against the Dr. - that's a good game folks. Don't accept the loss, but don't overlook the performance.Duke of left field - June 3, 2006
King of left field!
Nice post; completely agree. <puts on rose-colored glasses and sips adult beverage>luvsthecurveball - June 3, 2006
interesting sight
californiagirl - June 3, 2006
I would offer you some
but, ya know...you're 16.luvsthecurveball - June 3, 2006
i think you need all of it regardless
californiagirl - June 3, 2006
You say
that like it's a bad thing. :-(luvsthecurveball - June 3, 2006
so sorry
i'm sure it is a high quality adult beverage.californiagirl - June 3, 2006
yes, duke is that important
Is it possible that perception actually is reality, and that Duke's injury has actually cost the A's around 4 wins (the difference in the division) in the span of just one month?IMHO, Duke's injury is indeed the most painful to hit the A's this year. As we have discussed before, the A's are more aware than most teams that your relief ace is not always your closer. In the past, the A's have leaned heavily on their most effective reliever, and Macha is predisposed to lean heavily on Duke. Duke had assumed the Bradford role of coming in often and invariably when in close games.
Macha bears some responsibility here, he is not great on 'pen management.
But yes, Duke going down has really hurt us.
jakarta - June 3, 2006
And as the angels proved
it is a great stratagy. When they won the world series their best reliever was K-rod, yet Percival was their "closer"homerozzieandthestraw - June 3, 2006
and since then it's been Shields
Shields is now their best reliever, and gets the most games and innings.Looking back, it is really cool that Duke got the recognition to get to be an All Star last year when he was in fact pitching that well.
jakarta - June 3, 2006
Sarloos
I leave him in for the eighth. He was the best pitcher available at that moment. He was in a groove, pitch count was low, bullpen is depleted by injuries and has been suspect. Robot managing (starter goes 5-7 innings, bring in lefty to face lefty, closer throws the ninth; basically the GM who filled the roster ends up managing, in a way, more than the on-field manager) is boring, overrated, and has not been too effective for the A's anyway. A "cardinal" rule that precedes the cardinal rule of "never let a pitcher who pitched well lose the game" is "don't take a pitcher who is in a groove out of the game too early." You don't know if the guy out of the pen will be on that night. Any pitcher with sac (which is the kind of pitcher you want on your staff) does not want to come out of a game for fear that he might lose a good performance. He wants to finish the game.Santana was lights out. The A's hitters failed to make adjustments (shorten swings, go other way, bunt for base hit, etc.). Sarloos made one bad pitch, the Twins capitalized. That's baseball. You have to "give in" at the plate to a dominant starter. That is the only way you can beat him on a night in which he is on.
Santana's stuff is known to produce some ugly swings, but Kotsay's self-defense swing was a thing of beauty.
ccha - June 3, 2006
mlbtv blackout day
sh&t, and its a cool rainy day here.ak_A - June 3, 2006
am i the only one that's worried that this team
might not be able to come back from 5 games out?they just don't seem to have it this year.
larrysgurl - June 3, 2006
Complacent, I know...
but I always find it hard to be worried until after the ALB with this team. Plus, I can't overlook the injury effect; I just feel that we're going to be much improved.Yeah, so are the Angels apparently, but we'll be in the division race til the end.
luvsthecurveball - June 3, 2006
Oops
that's supposed to be ASB all star brake, errrr, break. <more coffee please>luvsthecurveball - June 3, 2006
agreed
you just can't give up yet.californiagirl - June 3, 2006
i'm not giving up i'm just frustrated i guess.
larrysgurl - June 3, 2006
it is very understandable
californiagirl - June 3, 2006
I think yesterday's game
was only frustrating in context. If the A's were 12-10 in one-run games, over .500, and tied for the AL West lead, we could all have shrugged off last night's loss as having as many positive signs as negative, and just getting beaten by the best pitcher in the league.In context, it's just the latest in a string of one-run losses we were in position to win.
Nico - June 3, 2006
All
knowledge is contextual all questions are contextual. (a. rand)ak_A - June 3, 2006
Heck Ya!
I mean, we'd all be thrilled about that game if it were at any other time during the second half of last year. lolluvsthecurveball - June 3, 2006
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